Roe v. Wade Abortion and Mormonism Part 2

Answering questions by Bill McKeever Gary Johnson deals with 36 commonly asked questions by your LDS friends and neighbors. It's a great resource for Christians want to share their faith with friends and loved ones. Be sure to pick up your copy today at your favorite Christian bookstore viewpoint on Mormonism program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint on Mormonism sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism when it comes to the subject of abortion should no one be more supportive of a woman's right to make choices about her own body than members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson.

My colleague at MRM. What I just read you was the opening line of an article written by a Mormon member named Brian Wang's guard. He wrote an article titled why Latter Day Saints should support a woman's right to choose.

And since this Sunday is sanctity of human life. Sunday we felt that this would be a good time to introduce some of the arguments that Mr. Wang's guard uses in support of abortion and his encouragement that other Latter Day Saints should be just as supportive as he is now personally I think Mr. Wang's guard's argument are certainly faulty and that's why were discussing what he has to say because what he is saying is not just the views that he alone holds. We've heard others use these very arguments. I think one of the worst arguments that he uses his opening salvo when he talks about a woman's right to make choices about her own body as I brought up in yesterday show when it comes to the subject of abortion. It's not her own body that's being aborted. It's another body that's being aborted.

It just happens to be inside the body of the mother and this is why I feel that this argument is certainly flawed. Let's just make something very clear here Bill, the human fetus is human. It has the DNA of a human.

It has its own heartbeat. It has its own eye color and hair color could be a different sex as you mentioned yesterday, this is the same state. All of us were in at that stage of life.

And so the fetus is definitely a pre-born human being and we can know that with four points and this is called the sled test the size, level of development environment and degree of dependency and when you understand that again as human beings we all were at that stage at that time of our lives.

So to is this human being and so to kill an innocent human being, which is what the fetus says is, I believe, according to the Bible sent and that's the big question here because in Mormonism. Mr. Wayne's guard is arguing that there are exclusions to word abortion is not a sin, and I would say that according to what the church teaches officially Mr. Wayne's guard is correct, but this goes back to my premise yesterday. This is why theology matters and bad theology leads to bad actions. If Mormonism is not true regarding this subject than that means a terrible atrocity is being committed on the life of another individual. In this case the unborn are most defenseless in our society, but yet Mr. Wang's guard is arguing not so much about the exceptions and as he says official church policy as opposed to it, except in cases of forcible rape serious threats to the life or health of the mother, or severe fetal defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.

He's right. Those are the exceptions.

According to Mormonism in an official capacity. If that's already allowed what is Mr. Wayne's guard arguing for obviously he's arguing for the rest of the 97% of abortion cases which is more for convenience.

Is that really what Latter Day Saints want to believe and do.

I certainly hope the average Latter Day Saints is not like Mr. Wayne's garden is thinking. I think you can tell were very passionate about this topic and somebody might claim that it's not life-and-death. But Bill and I would both say it is life-and-death between having a human being, be born or not be born.

I used to have a bumper sticker years ago that said abortion one dead one wounded because let's be serious folks half of the people that enter an abortion clinic come out of live. Basically that's true when it comes to the clients of an abortion clinic. But Mr. Wayne's guard goes on to talk about this after citing as we said yesterday, quoting from Abraham 57 which is unique Mormon scripture in the pearl of great price. What is he going to say after that if one rejects this idea that the spirit is joined with the physical body only at live birth and instead believes that it is resident much sooner then what happens to the spirit in an embryo or fetus that is aborted, whether spontaneously or by choice. Let me just conclude that argument is totally irrelevant. It really is not part of this argument. It's an interesting question, and it's one that can be discussed and debated but is really irrelevant as to the act that is taken place were not discussing where they're going afterwards were talking about now in taking the life of the unborn.

Now is it right or is it wrong and notice Mr. Wayne's guard is using his bad theology to try and defend himself in saying that abortion is okay and I have to assume because as he's pointed out, there are exceptions in Mormon theology that he's going for the whole 97%, meaning that abortion for convenience should be okay.

He goes on and writes the plan of salvation claims that all spirits who chose to come to earth will indeed have the opportunity to receive a physical body but miscarriages.

That is, spontaneous abortions are common in the United States, an estimated 15 to 20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, generally before 20 weeks and most before seven weeks. Miscarriages are especially common among women who have previously given birth, with one study finding 43% having experienced one or more spontaneous miscarriages.

19th-century latter-day St. women reportedly averaged eight live births and 16.7 miscarriages. Bill let me ask you this question is that apples and oranges. Absolutely. Again, it goes along with that paragraph that we looked at.

Prior to this, it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter were not talking about that. Those are natural occurrences which we certainly have no control over abortion. We do have control over.

Someone has to give permission, and someone has to perform the act, and in doing so, someone is going to die. It's a simple as that. Talking about miscarriages is totally irrelevant. A terrible argument that he's raising here, but somehow he feels that that justifies his position.

He goes on and writes if the spirit is in a fetus at any time after conception and is then aborted it seemingly gets withdrawn to the heavenly realm of spirits for another opportunity for its promise physical body. If true for spirit in a spontaneous abortion, then it is hard to argue that the spirit in a purposely aborted fetus. If it is in fact there should be treated any differently. So whether there is a spirit in the aborted fetus or there is not now, spirit, having made the choice to come to earth will miss out on that opportunity and abortion will not flail the plan of salvation. Any eternal spirit and this is where bad theology leads to bad actions.

I mean, again, this isn't even relevant mean you can use that as an argument and I've heard some professing Christians use that argument. Well, if all babies go to heaven let's just abort them in their safe and sound. That's a horrible reason to give to defend this act because if you are in fact taking a human life. First of all, you're doing it without due process of violating the Constitution of our land, much less the 10 Commandments.

Our Constitution says that you cannot take a human life without due process, and yet that child is being killed without due process they've committed no crime. And if you're going to say was the product of rape. That's not the baby's fault. The baby is the product of the crime. The person who perpetrated the crime needs to be punished, not the child so you can see an inconsistency in that argument, and his problem is that he equates the spontaneous abortions with people who are doing abortion is there's a letter to the editor and I want to read a part of this because I think it's related to what this man is saying because he's saying well. The spirits get to go back and do it again and then choose another body to take on it.

He doesn't provide any biblical or book of Mormon support our doctrine and covenants a party doesn't provide any to show that that's the case, but listen to what this writer Beverly Terry from Salt Lake City. She wrote a letter to the editor November 13, 2020, page 88, and her letter was titled disappointed in LDS boat and I don't want to get into the politics of it, but she brings up this point, she called herself a member of the LDS church. She was disappointed and those who use abortion in how they would vote and so this is one of the reasons she gives.

She says I won't vote for anyone who supports abortion, she's writes really she says which death toll are you going to accept, but you believe in a person's right to choose gun rights mask in social not distancing rights.

And yet you don't believe in a woman's right to own her own body.

She says this Mormons believe God saves all children under the age of eight. Unless you think there is an exclusion clause somewhere DC what she just didn't know what she dad is. She said well even if it were a human being.

As long as they're under the age of eight. Doesn't matter because she doesn't say they're going to get a chance to going to a new body. They're going to get to go to hell and they're going to be element be able to go to the celestial kingdom because of the age of accountability. You just said bad theology creates bad actions now. I want to bring out and now I'm speaking to our LDS listeners. There was a message that was given by Russell M.

Nelson, president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints back when he was an apostle, he gave this talk in April 1985 and if you want to find this message.

It was titled reverence for life and it's in the inside magazine, May 1985 and I believe it starts on page 11, but Russell and Nelson gave a talk on this very subject. He called it the war on the unborn.

Now in an earlier show I mentioned that Mormons have what they call modern day prophets who were to guide them in their understanding of what their scriptures say.

And as we've read Mr. Wayne's guard goes to his Scripture and tries to get it to say what he wants and that abortion should not be a problem with any latter-day St., but yet I want to give credit where credit is due. And I think were pretty good in our 40+ years of ministry to do that when it comes to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Some people say we never say anything good about the church. That's not true that's not true. This is one of those areas where I think Russell M. Nelson needs to be commended because in this message that he gave. He gives very good and I believe sound arguments as to why abortion should not be considered. Do I think he's consistent in all areas know and at the end of his talk. I'll explain why.

But still I think that this would be a good message for people like Brian Wayne's guard to read because it appears to me in this talk reverence for life that Russell M. Nelson does not agree with the position that Brian Wayne's guard or in this case, the woman who wrote that letter to the editor, Beverly Terry, I don't think she's considered what Russell and Nelson said now again this was back in the 1980s, I don't think Russell M. Nelson has changed his position. Since then, and he is a doctor, which I think is a little bit more credibility in this area than maybe Brian Wayne's guard is merely a retired Air Force person, but tomorrow we want to go through some of the points that Russell M.

Nelson gave in this talk, reverence for life.

So I hope you come back to listen to tomorrow's broadcast. Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research.

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