Gabriel and Christmas Part 2

.1 examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism.

What does the patriarch Noah have to do with Christmas. Welcome to this edition viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at M. R. M. Mormon church put out a gospel topic essay simply titled Noah. Now this gospel topic essay is certainly not as well-known as not been given the notoriety as some of the other gospel topic essays having to do with my think much more controversial aspects of Mormonism, such as race in the priesthood or plural marriage in Joseph Smith and Kirtland, and Abu or even how the book of Abraham was translated but it still has its own level of controversy and that's what we want to talk about today because what does the patriarch Noah have to do with Christmas. Now if you were to ask most Christians that question they probably wouldn't have a clue. I think if you asked most Mormons that question I think they wouldn't have a clue either. They might not well according to this essay. It starts off by saying Noah was the son of Lamech, the grandson of Methuselah and the great grandson of Enoch, the Scriptures list him as the 10th patriarch from Adam that sentence, I would probably say I agree with what I've read so far, but then it starts to go on to talk about how Noah was ordained to the priesthood when he was 10 years old by his grandfather Methuselah doubt there's nothing in the Bible that even hints of this. This is all what Mormons call latter-day revelation and if you listen to this program for any amount of time you probably know our opinion of that is that Joseph Smith can say just about anything he wants and Mormons are going to defend usually will never challenge him on these issues and they certainly don't seem to want to look for any type of biblical support or biblical evidence to back up a claim that Joseph Smith make what you just said is so important because Thomas S. Monson could not probably get away with the same kinds of things that Joseph Smith was able to get away with.

He has a special category in Mormonism. Today they would say that Monson only has prophetic authority whenever he speaking without authority at Gen. conference or doing something that God must've told him to do. But Joseph Smith said a lot of things that seem to be off-the-cuff sometimes and there accepted as being fact in this essay titled simply know it asked this question.

What role did Noah play in the events surrounding the birth of Christ and it says no.

I was also known as the angel Gabriel and was sent to announce the birth of Jesus Christ. See Luke 119 and 26 also teaches a presence of the church, Joseph Smith, page 104 he was sent by God to tell Zacharias that he and his wife Elizabeth would have a son. They should name John.

This was John the Baptist who would prepare the way for the Savior. See Luke 152 23. Gabriel also visited Mary and told her that she would be the mother of the son of God. See Luke 126 through 38 which we read yesterday and says learn more about the birth and life of Jesus Christ our Savior. So Noah, it says was known as the angel Gabriel that this goes back to the statement that I've made before and why it's so difficult for me as a Christian to hear Mormons tell the Christmas story. Living in Utah hearing Mormons try to tell this Christmas story. It's troubling to me because knowing what Mormons believe regarding certain aspects of this story I think paints the whole story for me like even the virgin birth.

We know that Mormon leaders have taught a story of the virgin birth that we as Christians would find a portrait because if Mary was in fact the literal child of God in the preexistence you're having, God according to some leaders coming down to for the body of flesh and bones impregnating Mary who is his own daughter. Some Mormon apologists have actually wondered why that bothers us so much.

Well, if that's true then we have what we call incest going on. Certainly that would bother us, but when I hear. Also about the announcement that is given by Gabriel to Mary about the coming birth of the Savior. Now I'm hearing.

Wait a minute.

This is no. The guy that built the ark showing up to Mary where in the world you get that in Scripture and you certainly don't get it from the verses that given us. They give us Luke 119 and 26 has nothing do with know it has ever they do with Gabriel and the only other passage that's used to support this idea.

Bill is D&C 128 21, section 128 verse 21. This is what it says I want to quote it because I've read and I'm trying to figure out where Noah as a part of this. It says and again the voice of God in the chamber of old father Witmer in Fayette, Seneca County and at sundry times and in divers places.

Through all the trials and tribulations of this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the voice of Michael the Archangel, the voice of Gabriel and of Rafael and of the divers angels from Michael or Adam down to the present time, all declaring their dispensation their rights their keys their honors their majesty and glory and the power of their priesthood giving line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little giving us consolation by holding forth that which is to come, confirming our hope. I mean I hear we have the we have Michael talked about Gabriel both talked about in the Bible.

Rafael talked about in the Apocrypha, which I have to ask that too is if Joseph Smith is going to cite that Rafe L wasn't actual, literal angel of God, and we only know about him through the Apocrypha is Joseph Smith giving some kind of credence to the Apocrypha in this particular case I D&C section 128. The preface reads this way and epistle from Joseph Smith the Prophet to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints containing further revelations on baptism for the dead. Dated at Nauvoo, Illinois, September 6, 1842 and not once in that entire supposedly revelation is Noah's name ever mentioned. I'm not sure why the church put out a gospel topics essay with the name Noah and Brinks out such, I think an outlandish statement to say that Gabriel and Noah are the same person and yet they provide us versus that show us nothing at all. You take that way out of its context to be able to come to that kind of conclusion roots, like the essay that also try to give the impression that people in the Old Testament actually commanded to practice polygamy and what was the one reference. They gave Genesis chapter 16 and that there's nothing in Genesis chapter 16 that hints that God ever commanded Abram to take on another wife and how many people reading this are not that impressed with footnotes, but they know they're there but they would never look them up like you and I do it's not that this is a brand-new idea.

Certainly that's not the case, or sooner if Whitney was the son of Helen Moore Kimball Whitney and Horace Whitney Helen Moore Kimball of course was the 14-year-old wife of Joseph Smith and the church is admitted that now also they they said it publicly, and if you don't know that as a latter-day Satan.

It's not us making that up. Your church is admitted to this will Orson if Whitney became an apostle and the Mormon church and in a conference message that he gave in April 1927 he said Noah whose other name is Gabriel. The angel of the resurrection. How could we do without them. He holds the keys to bring this forth from the grave. He is one of our ancestors, his three sons re-people the earth after the flood shim people in Asia him Africa and Japheth. Europe we are from Shem through Abraham in the house of Israel, though mixed with the children of Japheth Gentiles again. Where does he come up with all this. He doesn't need any real specific Bible verses to support it.

This is a part of the restored gospel which is really code word for Joseph Smith just tells us whatever he wants to tell us and were supposed to believe it is being truth which is certainly not always the case when we look at a lot of the things that Joseph Smith teaches and we fact check it according to the Bible, we find that the Bible does not support what Joseph Smith is teaching and it comes back to what we were talking about yesterday when we were talking about being an angel and Mormonism is really not that good of a thing when you think about how they became angels. I quoted part of the teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, page 51.

I want to quote it again right now. Bill if I could and then I want to give the rest of the quote. It says those without eternal marriage may be angels. Now the Angels will be the people who did not go to the temple who did not have their work done in the temple, and if there are some of us who make no effort to cement these ties we may be angels for the rest of eternity.

But if we do all in our power and seal our wives or husbands to us, then we may become gods and passed by the angels in heaven. Some might say well I be satisfied to just become an angel, but she would not one would never be satisfied just to be administering Angel. The weight upon other people when he could be the king himself, so are we to assume that when Noah as Gabriel appears to Mary and Elizabeth that he's not really happy at that point in his life. According to Spencer Campbell. He's not supposed to be satisfied, he should want to become a God and what we had read from Joseph Fielding Smith. The idea that you are eternally going to be an angel doesn't seem to allow room for you to ever become a God. So why do you have to go be a human and then become an angel, unless you did something unworthy. Joseph Fielding Smith in the reference that you just made doctrines of salvation going to page 73 said that these angels did not abide my law.

Therefore they cannot be enlarged but remain separately and singly without exultation in their saved condition to all eternity and from henceforth are not gods but are angels of God forever and ever.

Now a morning might say we have a he's just singling out some of the Angels out there. I have to ask, how does he know this. How does he know to single out certain angels from other angels. It seems like if you become an angel.

I'm giving the impression that you were not as good a human as you possibly could have been otherwise you would be God material and as you have just cited to be a God is really the goal of the faithful Latter Day Saints. Certainly not to be an angel let's go to Moron I who is considered probably be the most famous angel in all of Mormonism. I think that most Mormons lift him up to a high place. He actually was the last living neophyte according to the book of Mormon story decompile the plates that put them into the hill Camorra for Joseph Smith. The finding comes back and delivers them. He's the one that wrote Moron I 10 for which says you're supposed to pray about this book if he was on righteous person in life, for whatever reason, and why should I accept Moron I 10 for anything else that he had to say it, it does seem to raise the question that possibly there was something in these angels mortal life that prevented them from moving on to godhood eventually that they had to go through this particular stage.

I want to reiterate that we don't find anywhere in the Bible where it talks about humans becoming angels. As I gave before the references Nehemiah 96 Psalm 148 and Colossians 116 makes it pretty clear that God created angels as angels, so I conclusion I would say that no becoming Gabriel is not a good sign for Noah. You would think so, but how would Mormons digest all that. That's a good question. I don't even know if a lot of Mormons really thought about this. Thank you for listening you would like more information we guarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is all of us and Mormonism research ministry.

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