Saints Mormon Reformation Part 3

Viewpoint on Mormonism program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism what was expected of Latter Day Saints during what was called the Mormon Reformation. Welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM where looking at the book Saints. No unhallowed hand. This is volume 2 covers the years 1846 to 1893 in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

This book was published in 2020, and it's supposed to look at the history of the LDS church during this time. However, it doesn't go into a lot of real strict details which I find to be quite frustrating at times but it does in the endnotes make reference to a book that was written by a Mormon by the name of Paul Peterson. It came out in the year 2016. It was titled the Mormon Reformation and there was what was known as a Mormon Reformation catechism.

According to this book, dated from 1856 to 1857 and in the block.

There is a picture of what looks like a flyer that probably Latter Day Saints had and there were questions on this flyer. The title says questions to be asked. The Latter Day Saints the caption to this picture. In his book says this is the list that members quote measured their level of worthiness in a previous show when discussing the Mormon Reformation. I made it a point. I think it needs to be emphasized again.

Eric that the Mormon Reformation was all about doing works doing works doing works whereas the Christian Reformation was just the opposite.

It was an emphasis on the fact that we are justified by faith, not by our works so here we see a huge difference between how the word Reformation is being used one by the LDS people and one by the Christians during the Christian Reformation, which takes place around the 1500s. In this list. Here's some of the things that it has to say and the reason I want to read some of these things folks is because we have been criticized by Latter Day Saints. When we say that in Mormon salvation. It's like there's a number of things in boxes that need to be checked off once you've checked off all the boxes then you can feel confident you're going to receive exultation in the next life, but can you because is every box checked in anybody's life and you would think it would have to be if the doctrine and covenants is telling us the truth in section 1 where it says that you must repent, keep the commandments and then you are forgiven if you don't truly repent. If you don't keep all the commandments you can't expect to be forgiven will.

Here's some of the things that were listed in this paper title questions to be asked the Latter Day Saints. Have you taken and made use of property, not your own, without the consent of the owner. Have you lied about or maliciously misrepresented any person, oath, or thing. Have you borrowed anything that you have not returned or paid for. Have you borne false witness against your neighbor. Have you taken the name of the deity in vain. It almost sounds like a modified version of the 10 Commandments, doesn't it. But then it says do you pay your tithing promptly do you teach your family the gospel of salvation do you speak against your brother and or against any principle taught in the Bible book of doctrine and covenants revelations given through Joseph Smith the Prophet and the presidency of the church as now organized so you see, it does go far beyond what we would find in Exodus when it comes to the 10 Commandments. It has a lot of other details in it that Latter Day Saints were expected to adhere to will the reason for the Mormon Reformation was of course the Latter Day Saints were not adhering to a lot of these things and so this was a time during the history of the LDS church to get the Mormon people back in line to do what was necessary in order to achieve that exultation that they sought as we mentioned in yesterday's show. The problem that we have with this addition of Saints when describing the Reformation. Is it says some things that it doesn't clearly explain, for instance, it says that at times bring him and others had even drawn on Old Testament Scriptures to teach that certain grievous sins could be forgiven only through the shedding of the sinner's blood in as we mentioned yesterday that bears repeating. Today there are no Old Testament scriptures that teach that that may have been something Brigham Young added to some scriptures, but that's not what we find in the Old Testament, and then it goes on to say that such teachings hark back to the hellfire and brimstone language of Protestant revival preachers who tried to frighten sinners into reform. True, a lot of these Protestant revival preachers were teaching about the dangers of hell and judgment should a person die in their sins, but nowhere do we find these preachers saying that you could be forgiven by shedding your blood. And then he goes on to say. Brigham understood that he sometimes let his fiery sermons go too far and he did not intend for people to be put to death for their sins. I don't know if you could draw that conclusion based on what Brigham Young actually taught, or what Jedediah M. Grant actually taught in Jedediah gam Grant was a member, the first presidency under Brigham Young and this book gives the impression that it was Jedediah M. Grant, who was the one figure behind this movement known as the Mormon Reformation until you have an article on our website MRM.org/blood atonement with a hyphen between blood and atonement and you list some of the sentence that Brigham Young said blood should be shed of that individual. But when it comes to this idea that Brigham Young was. Not really intending for people to be put to death for their sins.

What you do with this statement by Brigham Young that he made on February 8, 1857 and this can be found in the Journal of discourses, volume 4, page 220 I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain in order to atone for their sense, let me stop you. There I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain in order to atone for their sins. Notice folks. He's not merely saying they were slain as capital punishment for certain sins, he is saying they were righteously slain in order to atone for their sins.

Based on that sentence. How am I supposed to understand what it says here on pages 245 and 246 of the book thinks Brigham understood that he sometimes let his fiery sermons go too far and he did not intend for people to be put to death for their sins. Does that statement support what I just read from the top of page 246 in the book Saints. It doesn't seem to be supporting that.

But what did Brigham Young go on to say in this sermon that he gave on February 8, 1857. He said I have seen scores in hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance in the last resurrection. There will be if their lives had been taken in their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the devil until our elder brother Jesus Christ raises them up conquers death hell and the grave. I have known a great many men who have left this church for whom there is no chance whatever for exultation, but if there blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them the wickedness and ignorance of the nations forbid this principles being in full force, but the time will come when the law of God will be in full force. This is loving our neighbor as ourselves. If he needs help help him and if he wants salvation and is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved. Spill it Bill. Let me ask you this question. Would you like to have a neighbor who believes in what Brigham Young is teaching here will. This is what we were talking about yesterday because the book says leaders that spoken harshly of apostates and locals who were not members of the church feeling intimidated some people left the territory. This is on page 245. It would seem quite possible that words like this could in fact intimidate people to leave a mere call to repent and do what is right.

I can't imagine that kind of preaching, causing people to leave a territory that would make me I would think want to stay, knowing that these people are supposed to be living righteous lies but this goes a little bit far.

While I think of good neighbors is somebody who may be is going to bring me a nice loaf of bread that just came out of the oven not coming with knives trying to stab me to death, but they're trying to help you, because if your blood is spilled, then you can atone for your sin and here's what Brigham Young says that you have to wonder what did he really mean he says the wickedness and ignorance of the nations forbid this principles being in full force, but the time will come when the law of God will be in full force and I can just see a Mormon same see it wasn't in full force and my response would be describe for me what full force means that's the question we need to ask because Brigham Young couches it with the phrase before it. The wickedness and ignorance of the nation forbid this principles be in full force, all that would be the United States. No doubt, that would be England with save European countries.

At that time. Even the African countries. At that time. It's not in full force, but I'm sure Brigham Young thought well it certainly enforce here otherwise. Why did he say what we decided earlier I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain in order to atone for their sins, were they righteously slain our workday and what we had brought about earlier. As far as biblical examples. He doesn't give us any biblical examples. He's just giving us examples that apparently happen in his day, but we have no biblical precedent to be able to say that this was a righteous doctrine and let's look back again at what Brigham Young said. Even after the portion Reese's. The time will come when the law of God will be in full force. Then he says this this is loving our neighbor as ourselves.

If he needs help help him and if he wants salvation, and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved. Spill it. Who makes a determination if you live next door to a person who believe what Brigham Young said. With that intimidate you. Eric yes it was definitely intimidate me because I'm thinking the way my neighbor wants me to be saved. Is this the way he's going to accomplish this, and again, let's go back to what Brigham Young said about it not being in full force if Brigham Young is really saying were not doing anything like this.

Now and I don't know what kind of evidence there is to really support that. But let's just go by what Brigham Young saying if in fact it's not being done in full force. Why is he encouraging people to help save their neighbors in the here and now not in the hereafter.

He's telling them to help their neighbors is telling them to help their neighbors by spilling their blood on the earth now notice a citation like that is not given in St. and that's what bothers me about this.

I think they could've done a much better job trying to refute what is the obvious and the statements that we are reading today and are going to read in tomorrow's show were going to be again. Looking at chapter 17. In the book Saints.

No unhallowed hand, thank you for listening you would like more information we guarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is