Stand on the Rock of Revelation Part 2

Mormonism 101 is a research ministries Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson has helped many want to understand what separates Mormonism from the Christian faith. Mormonism 101 is available at your favorite bookstore or online@mrm.org .1 examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective view .1 Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism so glad to be with us for this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McTeer, founder and director of Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM where our Latter Day Saints to stand well. According to Elder Lawrence E. Korb Ridge and emeritus member of the 70 in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Members of course are supposed to stand on the rock of revelation and that is the title of an article in the October 2020 edition of enzyme magazine.

This is based on a devotional that Mr. Korb Ridge gave in January 2019 and what he hopes to do is give guidelines to fellow members of his church as to how to evaluate information and ultimately arrive at truth yesterday we gave his introduction, but today were going to look at a section he has on page 27 under the subtitle will we stand forever. He writes the prophet Daniel said that in the last days shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever and that's from Daniel chapter 2 verse 44. Now how does Mr. Korb Ridge interpret Daniel 244.

How does he see this God of heaven who shall set up a kingdom. He answers the question in the very The kingdom of God is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

It will quote unquote stand forever. Let's think about this. Folks if in fact Daniel was not making reference to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Daniel 244 but he was referring to someone or something else, then I would conclude that that would be one huge mistake on the part of the LDS person and certainly I do believe they've made an error in drawing this conclusion that Mr. Korb Ridge draws on page 27, that being that the kingdom of God is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If you were to look at a number of biblical commentaries and we looked at a few today one was by John Gill. John Gill was an English pastor.

He preceded Charles Spurgeon.

He says that the God of heaven who shall set up a kingdom is referring to Christ's church, the kingdom of Christ.

He's not the only one that draws that conclusion.

Now think about this. If these biblical commentators are correct in saying that the kingdom of heaven is really Christ's church. That's not the credit to Korb Ridge is giving it, and that is not the position of the LDS church because Korb Ridge is not unique in drawing this conclusion. Others have said the very same thing who are members in the LDS church including leaders in Mormonism.

There is a doctrine called the great apostasy were all Christianity passed away and was revived.

If you will, in 1830 when Jesse Smith sets up the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and so in Daniel 244, when it says it shall stand forever, and if it is referring to Christ's church, then the LDS church has no claim to any kind of authority because the church is never lost its authority from the time of Jesus Christ. In other words, this the church continues on and if the LDS people want to say no that's not true. Working to say that the kingdom of God is really the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and it's going to stand forever. Basically what they are saying folks is that their organization is going to accomplish something that Christ church failed to accomplish and that is to stand forever because you're absolutely correct Eric when you say that because Mormon leaders have said that if there was not a complete apostasy of the Christian religion, then there would be no need for the Mormon church to exist it would be audacious to say that Daniel 244 would not have been referring to Christ church but rather it was a reference to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as you say you miss the middleman which would be the church of Christ and yet it wasn't able to stand and so I see that being very problematic.

I think you're being more than kind Eric by saying audacious, I would say that the conclusion that Mr. Korb Ridge gives here, which is the conclusion that other LDS leaders of given them as well is not just audacious but it even goes to the extreme of being blasphemous on the next page on page 28 there is a subheading deception is a sign of our time. What does Mr. Corbett say here.

He writes when the Lord described the signs of his coming and the end of the world. He mentioned many things including wars and rumors of wars, nations rising against nations, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, and many other signs including this one. Quote for in those days. This day there shall also arise false Christ's and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Who are the elect according to the covenant, and we probably should mention that that last citation that you gave is Matthew 24, 23 from the Joseph Smith translation, otherwise known as the inspired version.

So what we see here is that it's not uncommon for a latter-day St. to refer to the Joseph Smith translation when they can use it to their advantage.

Now let's think about this when a latter-day St. talks about in the last days, that there shall arise false Christ's and false prophets. Of course, folks, they're never going to think it's referring to them false Christ's and false prophets never introduce themselves with those kind of titles. Cults never describe themselves as a cult. They just don't do that, they tend to do what they tend to describe themselves as the arbiters of truth and if you don't believe them. Obviously you are believing in error. So when he talks about in those days, there shall also arise false Christ's and false prophets. Of course coming from our worldview, we would see that as describing the leaders of the LDS church is not just the LDS church alone, but I would say this would also pertain to other false groups that are out there that claim that they alone represent true Christianity.

This would include of course, the watchtower Society and groups like that.

Naturally, they have leaders that are teaching false doctrine. They would fall into this category. But of course there's no way that Mr. Korb Ridge is going to say will that sounds like it might be talking about us. The reason why is because Mr. Korb Ridge has a worldview he already has presuppositions that in his mind negates any such thought his motive for determining truth though it sounds noble later on in this article is still cleaning to the presupposition that his church is true and that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.

He cannot get away from that anchor. He has to hold onto that because that's what drives them to many of the conclusions that he holds two paragraphs later, it reads there are many who deceive and the spectrum of deception is broad at one end, we meet those who attacked the restoration the prophet Joseph Smith in the book of Mormon. Next, we see those who believe in the restoration but claim the church is deficient and has gone astray.

Others claim to believe in the restoration but are disillusioned with doctrine that conflicts with the shifting attitudes of our day, some without authority lay claim to visions, dreams and visitations to right the ship. Guide us to a higher path or prepare the church for the end of the world. Others are deceived by false spirits did get the impression Eric that in this paragraph he tends to address two completely different groups. One, I think he's kind of hinting to people like ourselves, might those of us who were outside of the church that are very concerned as to what the church's teaching and what it teaches its people and then you have those that are within the church that see problems within the church, and as he says tend to want to right the ship.

He assumes that they have been deceived by the shifting attitudes of our day. I can understand him drawing this kind of a conclusion because we do see that within Christianity, there are those that are doing the same thing.

So the LDS church is not immune from this as we would say that the Church of Christ the true Church of Christ as we understand it is not immune from this either. How do we address this and how do we talk about these things and so as we see this as a concern. It doesn't surprise me that Mr. Corbett sees it as a concern as well. But when he says at one end, we meet those who attack the restoration the prophet Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. It's easy sometimes to describe a critique as an attack. I find myself doing that occasionally and I have to correct myself because I want to be careful not to use adjectives that give a distorted view of what my position is that I have seen LDS leaders describe their positions that I view as an attack and I'm sure Mr. Corbett sees the same thing that we're doing as an attack, even though what we are addressing are things that usually come from their own sources. So this is where I find that kind of a description a little bit problematic if I'm quoting your own material. If I'm quoting your own leaders. If I'm quoting your scholars in your apologist. I think defining that as an attack is a little bit over the top. Now I could be saying that in an aggressive way and maybe that's what he's talking about.

I don't know because it's hard to tell on the printed page. But then again, I think as Christians we should try to not allow the Latter Day Saints to draw that kind of a conclusion we need to be careful in how we present the information to the LDS individual so that hopefully they will listen more carefully to what we have to say and I might add that they would see that there is a large element of genuine concern for them in believing something we see is an error.

Would you agree, I would bill and I think one of the biggest things we need to understand is presuppositions or the rose-colored glasses that we come into the conversation with certainly Lawrence Korb Ridge has a presupposition that his church is true in a very telling statement is when he says some without authority lay claim to visions, dreams and visitations interesting because he thinks that his leaders, the prophet his counselors. The 12 apostles, the general authorities. They are the ones with authority. Those without the authority are not able to talk for the church or for Jesus Christ and so that's is presupposition. We certainly bill you and I have presuppositions as well.

One of the things that we need to do is we need to take as objective of a look at the book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, the restoration and we need to see what does the evidence say and then once we get the evidence we need to go toward where whatever the conclusion is that the evidence is presenting and I think that something that I'm not sure he's willing to do because he is discounting is reset on yesterday show anything that he was seen in opposition to some of the major issues that people like us have with the LDS church, and so if you're Latter Day Saints or your Christian you need to check your presuppositions and make sure you're not rejecting something just because that's the way you been taught where that's the way you think. Currently, tomorrow will continue looking at this article found in the October 2020 edition of inside magazine an article titled stand on the rock of Revelation. Thank you for listening.

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