Joseph Smith as Translator Part 2

Mormonism 101 is research ministries Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson for so many more to understand what separates Mormonism from the Christian faith. Mormonism 101 is available at your favorite Christian bookstore online@mrm.org .1 examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective view .1 Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism so glad to be with us for this additional viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM, but we also have with us. Our good friend Sandra Tanner with Utah lighthouse ministry and we've been talking this week about Joseph Smith as a translator. Yesterday we were talking about how the book of Mormon came forth with the German thumb/rock in a hat and the questionable practice involving that. But today we want to talk about the inspired version or the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible. First of all, we know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has always been skeptical when it comes to our Bible they use officially the King James version 1769 addition as most people use the King James version are using today but it's not so much as article 8 says that they believe the Bible as far as it's translated correctly they really believe the Bible as far as it's transmitted correctly Mormon scholars and even some leaders have admitted that's really what is being discussed in article 8 of the articles of faith but putting all that aside, you would think if it's not really translated or transmitted accurately. Why wouldn't God allow Joseph Smith, who allegedly has this ability to translate to give us a new Bible.

Well according to the doctrine and covenants section 73 verses three and four. God allegedly commanded Joseph Smith to give us a new Bible on this on the site from it. It says now verily I say and do you my servants, Joseph Smith Junior and Sidney Rigdon saith the Lord. It is expedient to translate again, and inasmuch as it is practicable to preach in the regions round about until conference and after that it is expedient to continue the work of translation until it be finished. That is the command until it be finished now. Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th president of the church said that the prophet Joseph Smith translation of the Bible is one of the greatest tangible evidences of his spiritual insight and divine calling, but at the same time we have a citation from J. Reuben Clark, who was a member of the first presidency in his book why the King James version, page 228. He says the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has never issued the inspired version of the whole Bible.

Since apparently, the prophet Joseph never finally finished his revision when you were in the LDS church just based on your memory. You recall any time where the Joseph Smith translation or the inspired version was pointed to in a sermon or in some lesson that you had how often was the Joseph Smith translation referred to as when you are a member of the LDS church. I don't remember having it mentioned at all and you would think if this was really as Joseph Fielding Smith says one of the greatest tangible evidences of his spiritual insight and divine calling that it would be reference more and more about its it's not that it hasn't been a reference. Certainly there are citations of it in some manuals but not being a member. I would tend to agree that you probably didn't hear it a lot, but when they say that it wasn't finished. It does that seem a little bit odd, considering the commandment given to Joseph Smith and Dr. and covenants 73 tells him that he supposed to finish it. Would that mean that God gave Joseph Smith the commandment that couldn't be fulfilled, and why wouldn't Joseph Smith's God know this ahead of time well beyond that supposedly every successor to Joseph Smith is also ordained as a prophet's air regulator and translator if it was important to God to have the thing printed even if it weren't finished.

Why don't the other prophets for patient God wanted it printed in Joseph Smith's lifetime seems like he thought it was an important project so hot, why wouldn't anyone ever for we talk about the translation again. I think that word even needs to be defined. If were going to have an intelligent conversation on this because, as with the book of Mormon. We note Joseph Smith did not know reformed Egyptian. There is no such language is that so how could he ever be expert in it will when it comes to the translation of the Bible. Did Joseph Smith did he have the expertise in the Hebrew and Greek to give us a good translation of the ancient text. Now he was not linguist or as a trained scholar in any language he did study Hebrew a little bit in 1835. But that would be couple years after he supposedly finished the new version of the Bible so if one brings out that he studied Hebrew.

It's too late, as after he does his work on the Bible, we probably should mention that this was commanded by God to Joseph Smith in the year 1830 and he works on it for about three years right. Many Mormon apologist, and even scholars and even here we have J Reuben Clark who is a member the first presidency. They try to argue that Joseph Smith never finished it but yet Joseph Smith himself said he finished it in July 1833 at volume 1, page 368 of the documentary history of the church. That's the blue, volume 7, volume set. If Joseph Smith is saying he finished it. Shouldn't latter-day Saints take that into consideration. I mean, I know the argue. Well, he went back and he did some fine tuning, but wouldn't the bulk of it be you would think trustworthy as we are talking fair you would mention how they still use the book of Abraham, and he never really completed that task to write about that a lot of write to Ed so it's not a valid argument to say well he didn't finish it because their other Scriptures aren't finished the book market is unfinished as far as Sacco's is possibly more of that yet to come out. He didn't do all of the book of Abraham. There is possibly more translation and that didn't work out. But beyond that, at the back of their own printing of the King James Bible. They have extracts from the Bible translation so if they feel those extracts are of value and important to put in their back there Bible, then why wouldn't it be important to use all of the work that he did accomplish on it, even if it wasn't finished standard you think many Latter Day Saints who do have the Borman would cost the Mormon Bible, the quad realize that there are portions of the justice mistranslation in their Bible. I find that a number of the people I talked to have not bothered looking at the back of the Bible and don't even realize the extracts are there, and when they do know they're there. I find very seldom have looked at them to even see what they are.

We need to remember that he is not dealing with any Hebrew or Greek manuscripts. This is not a translation in any sense that a scholar would recognize because Bible translations are all done by people who know Greek and Hebrew. They're able to work with the oldest manuscripts to come up with their rendering.

Joseph had none of those abilities. He had no manuscripts to use. I find it very ironic that they want to qualify the value of the Bible by saying as far as it's translated correctly Bob, why don't they say that about the book of Mormon or any of their other Scriptures three point if he didn't have expertise in the Hebrew or the Greek then how did Joseph Smith come about with this inspired version will Bruce McConkey who was a Mormon apostle wrote the book Mormon doctrine is 19 666 additional page 383, he gives us the answer, he says, in consequence at the command of the Lord and while acting under the spirit of revelation, the prophet corrected revised, altered or added to and deleted from the King James version of the Bible to form what is now commonly referred to as the inspired version of the Bible. And of course inspired version is just another name for the Joseph Smith translation based on that explanation why would anybody outside of the church want to take Joseph Smith seriously. Even if you're a member of the church based on that description. Why would a Latter Day Saints want to take the Joseph Smith translation seriously. It sounds like Bruce McConkey has just given Joseph Smith carte blanche you can say whatever he wants. All he has to do is claim that there was some kind of spirit of revelation involved in that well and that's what I Mormon would say to me.

They believe he was inspired to give his rendering and yet they don't know what he gave, they haven't read the inspired version. They don't know what he changed.

They don't realize that some of the changes he made wouldn't support their current theology. He made some changes on the doctrine of God that word. I guess their current interpretations he adds, then the whole prophecy about himself. In Genesis, when they want to say the Bible is true as far as it is translated correctly. Nothing he's doing is translated correctly correct by the standard, not by any scholar standard teaches free to make revisions as he chooses. Let me throw this out to you Sandra, the Joseph Smith translation were inspired version as it's known was done relatively early in Joseph Smith. I hate to use the word ministry so I will use it in quotes to quote ministry.

Do you think his Joseph Smith translation would read very differently had he done this in 1844, right before he died while yes because the theology and Mormonism changed over 14 years.

You see in the book of Mormon and and they another work he did.

The book of Moses that there is a teaching of just one God.

It's when you get to the book of Abraham which he works on in the 1840s that you see this development of this plural God's doctrine if he had done it in the 40s. I'm sure there would've been a very different tone to the verses on the nature of God in another fascinating thing that I've noticed in one of the reasons why whenever I'm on the streets witnessing to Latter Day Saints. If I remember to bring it with me because it's kind of bulky and big but I have a Joseph Smith translation inspired version and I find that many of the verses that I'm going to probably use in a witnessing situation.

Joseph Smith left those verses intact. He doesn't really touch the Isaiah passage is he doesn't touch. Ephesians 289 he doesn't touch Titus 35 a lot of verses that I will probably end up referencing as I'm talking to Latter Day Saints. You would think if Joseph Smith was really inspired to give what we have and we know that he touch some of those verses because some of the words are changed ever so slightly that a Latter Day Saints would respect those verses that we are going to bring up but yet still I find many Latter Day Saints just want to blow them off and give them an interpretation that certainly the context doesn't allow for to the Mormon everything is covered by having a testimony. The details become irrelevant, because if I prayed about it and have had some sort of an emotional experience, then that is more proof than anything you would bring up on a piece of paper and yet they want to say they only believe the Bible as far as is translated correctly, which is an appeal to scholarly work. So if you're going to appeal to scholarly work, then you have to look at what all the scholars have said regarding their translations. We been talking to Sandra Tanner.

She is the founder of Utah lighthouse ministry.

Check out her website at UT, LM.org and tomorrow were going to continue this conversation regarding Joseph Smith as a translator, thank you for listening you would like more information regarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you'll join us again as we look at and viewpoint