Identity: Mormon or In Christ?, Pt.3

Shines in the darkness the darkness is coming.

We were all born and raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in court in Salt Lake City, Utah, more commonly referred to as the Mormon faith. All of us have left that religion have been drawn to faith in Jesus Christ based on biblical teachings name of our podcast outer brightness reflects John 19 calls Jesus, the true light gives light to every we have found life beyond Mormonism to be brighter than we were told in the light, we have is not our own.

It comes to us from without.

Thus, our brightness, our purpose is to share our journeys of faith in what God has done in drawing us to his son.

We have conversations about all aspects of the transition fears, challenges, joys, and everything in between were glad you found us and we hope you'll stick around listening. However, this contrast for post-Mormons who are drawn by God, to walk with Jesus rather than turn away out of this mess. Brightness wailing and gnashing of teeth. Here except for Michael's angry that is angry.

That is why Matthew, the nuclear colonist Michael BX Mormon apologist on Paul Bunyan. Welcome back to the outer brightness podcast this week, the sons of light round out a discussion on how the concept of identity relates to their faith journeys to discuss how their sense of self was changed since going to the transition if they would say they are still Mormon in any sense what the Bible has to say about identity. Let's get into it since your first transition. How is your sense of self changed so I cannot describe how the cracks formed in my sense of identity before shattered and all the pieces were also staring at the pieces essentially kind of did nowhere to go, it's it's interesting because it's like when I when I felt like my faith that finally collapsed me my shelf collapsed due to the weight of all these historical things and rereading and how it just counted everything I've been taught the church and finding out that the church itself actually changed you know some of its history not counted modified over time to fit the changing narrative in the doctrine I was like okay well I got like an awfully close to have a mental breakdown. I think I did at some point as and when can the dust settled like okay I got to figure out you know, like to me. I consider it agnosticism or atheism for like a very short period of time. You know it was like maybe like a few days as like not serious in considering about just flexing okay and things on the table now let's look at my options and I thought about it I thought about expenses out of my mission like there are times where you know I thought I was. I wasn't mortal danger. Certain points and fully God protected me also felt like just I just felt God's presence in my life and so I was like why can't accept atheism is just crazy. So it's like I looked at those pieces that I felt like I could still identify myself with. And I looked at those pieces I picked the backup and so was Catholic. Slowly, bit by bit, taking the shattered pieces and trying to reintegrate them into who I was and so one of those pieces was that while I feel like Christ is Lord is my Savior.

I was like I'm not really sure what that means right now you know because I'm not sure what I believe anymore, but you not like I believe that to be true in the Bible is like going to be my foundation sums can study that for now and see where it takes me really know what was going take me. So when you start stating that so it was was reshaping things I learned in the past, this idea being a child of God, or what is that mean while we learn in John chapter 1 that to those who believe in Christ to them he gave power to become children of God. So I was a child by literal birth, but I was a child by adoption or I could or at least at the time. I believe that I could become a child by adoption. I wasn't sure if I was or not and also slowly trying to reintegrate these parts into myself.

I compared him to the Bible and trying to see in a lot of somethings I was quite sure about. I still have a hard time separating out everything I learned a Latter Day Saints account took a little bit of deconstruction that what I believe before still you know all the pieces shattered.

I know when you hear a certain word is out Latter Day Saints like Christ, son of God priesthood salvation. You have these connotations in your mind that women graph unitive but David beaten into you since your kid so it just took time to slowly learn okay. What do other people think about this.

What does the Bible say about this and so and then it was just like throwing everything out starting brand-new. I had to slowly read the Scriptures say okay these parts of of LDS doctrine. Those servers are okay and I does seem to line up with what Scripture says. And so it was usually the Bible that was kind of my bed rock that I was trying to rebuild my identity on because I felt like if I didn't have something to build on.

I don't want to go through what I did in high school where I spent years and years trying to find myself try to find direction find purpose and so so me some may listen and say well you know you clung onto the Bible because that's all you had. And you know you don't really know what the Bible's or are not, and I could see that criticism being made, but at the same time I really studied it out, you know, tried to think through it logically and also pray for guidance and help in an like I'm always testing you know iron sharpens iron, not just you know with each other but I think with yourself.

I'm always trying to test myself and say is what I believe logical is it consistent with the world around me.

You know it's it's easy to become myopic and just say well you know I need something to grasp onto some to believe this thing and that's good, giving purpose in life.

What I wanted to do as I wanted to have something to give me purpose that was actually consistent with reality and so that's what I'm always trying to do is always trying to test it and that's not trying to say that other views of the gospel and Scripture are illogical but I found in my study and my journey when I went through the tenets of 35 reformed theology like it just then lighting up with scripture. It just clicked for me and I'll like it was just like going through a list of logical operators in my brain and I'm like okay this lines up at this. That means this that exists in the can deduce it from there and I just clicked for me and that's kind of where all it seemed like all the pieces fell into place. Once I started burning for people like RC's Bolin and John MacArthur and and even then I was starting to recognize okay well I disagree with this person on this aspect, but I still find worth and what he teaches here and so, from there it's like you're building your building myself up again from there. So that's how it changed and how I saw a star to see myself not as a child of God by literal birth, but but when I finally you know I got to a point where I was so stressed out, not knowing if our Savior not knowing what to believe and I just, you know, I was forced to my knees and pray to God for forgiveness and help and pray for salvation I felt at that moment.

That's when I fill it that God had truly adopted me as a son, and it give me that reassurance in an.com that piece. I was looking for. So since then I my my identity was reshaped to know that I'm a adopted child of God that I don't have to worry about the wrath of God on me anymore and that I'm in his family and that I can trust in him. I can go to him for help and guidance and so that's that's kind of how identities been shaped since then sold out. So when I was saved was about was 2016 and was still, still got confused after that. But then about 2017, 2018 is when I started really feeling like okay this is where I'm supposed to be real you mentioned played off the dime child of God song and discussion touched on on the difference in yourself as a child of God by literally were ordered by adoption was that sort of your general have a shift like that and thinking with regard to that particular doctrine as well as working transition relation your sense of self or how was that for you.

You know a lot of what Matthew was talking about really resonated with me because it just is so familiar. You know I mean about the pieces you know and that definitely is how I felt like I just been shattered into a million pieces. After my transition and you have never he was talked a little bit earlier about being afraid of where he was in and out, you know, was he in and out atheist or or whatever. I think for me when it scared me is that I was never going to end up anything that I was just gonna stay in this constant state of never being able to find my my footing ever again.

Those just now cannot really find it for a minute that I was gonna lose it as just just never got in a land you know I finally kinda hit rock bottom and I was thinking okay why I very much lost my salvation. I'm going outer darkness now is a still kinda you know in my heart feared leaving the church that there was going to be eternal outer darkness awaiting me as an apostate and then something about the prodigal God and so I started reading that and that really helped me realize that I identified with the older brother in that parable that I was basically you know using the father as a means to an end. You know, trying to play nice and clear the rules only with the intent to acquire an inheritance, but I wasn't in a right relationship and you know I appeared to be righteous, but I wasn't in those lows a game changer for me was one of the big things but you're right, I started to identify, not as a literal child of God, but as an adopted child of God, and I think when you're when you're only asking really play up the literal child of God card and you think that being adopted just isn't is not is this not as good. It's not as valuable to be adopted but I see it totally the opposite.

Now here because this unit that God is a holy and righteous God, and he is not like us at all. And yet she adopts us anyway. Even though we don't have a birthright to read even though we can't measure up to him in any way. It's like why would you, you must wonder why would he.

Why would he adopt us, but he did anyway and it is amazing is just the way I view that relationship is completely different to you but is not here before. It was like okay well enough I if I do something to displease him.

He will turn his back on me until I come back and on the bigger man and I repent. But now God's always the bigger man.

He's the one that is able to love me unconditionally no matter what I do. I think what I was when I was only yes I really identified with my shortcomings, my failures and my sin, because those things were more powerful than God's love was for me but now you know I identify completely with Christ identify with his righteousness rather than my own and was usually tough because one of the things that happened during my transition is all my idols were just ripped away from me. My mitral family was ripped away. You know, and even my earthly family man with Jeanette that divorce and had everything that I think I was naturally inclined to hold onto and and probably elevate higher than God. It was just taken away from me until I got to the point we just had no choice but to make Christ the foundation that I stood on and I was really rebellious against him and it's you.

I thought that I was I was righteous and I was following Christ and really was this experience to open my eyes to the fact that I found it tooth and nail. I basically was adopted, you know, kicking and screaming in them adopted. I'm like oh my goodness this is amazing. You know I'm I'm so glad that God snatched me and adopted me so yeah I mean really a man look at all the things that I held dear Wiles B St. you know my mitral family. The temple of my priesthood.

All those things you know Christ. Christ is all those things to me. Now you know Christ is my temple, he is my priesthood. He's my worthiness.

I don't need any of those other things because Christ the person of Christ is enough for me Gaspar. Michael and I just found myself talking and saying there's things just nodding my head in agreement and special seven-year-old just the identified more with your sand and that is so my experience as well to. I was trying to think back about this question, answer and strengthened by the member and I talked about when I was arrested. I have not heard that story but I'm intrigued so you may not be as interested. Up until about one story anyway so a few months ago I did the friend from my childhood friend who was along on this ride with me. I found out that she is a born again and just very outspoken about his faith in, and his reliance on Jesus on and on Facebook about when I saw that and became Facebook friends with them. I was just slow most times of rejoicing for me as I got into a lot of trouble together normal stuff and putting the new games in the backyard and played basketball in the driveway and stuff like that but we got into trouble. Mischievous kids like we went to another middle school when they were having an evening concert and sat in the back because her friend was the chorus that was saying that my other friend of mine sat in the back was one of those auditoriums. This, like, 1/4 circle with the big carpeted steps singles in schools and we sat at the top of the steps and just like your plans to the point where the principal came in and got in trouble at school the next day, but that's that's the kind of kids we were constantly getting into trouble but this one time we were. His parents are gone out of town and me and my other friend just told our parents.

We all told our parents spend the night really worked out as we are spending the night at his friends house. His parents were out of town my parents that I was spending the night somewhere else.

My other friends parents thought he was spending the night somewhere else email and actually were all supposed to be spending the night at my place. But we end up spending the night at this this friends house. His parents were out of town and were there watching movies. No just hanging out and there was this kid who lived across the street that when we will be playing basketball the driveway. She would throw rocks at us and we would grab. Note the tomatoes that had fallen off of the vines and my friends garden soft and mushy on the ground grab those and throw them at him and staying his shirt and his parents would get mad extinguisher and was like this rivalry like this kid like constantly bugging us as he was a few years younger than us and is one of those things I think working wanted to be part of the group wasn't part of no justice. Not a good situation. So this night we were at my friends house were sitting around watching news and my friends decided to make some Campbell's soup and burned and his mom was a single mom and she would get upset with him if he wasted food because she was struggling to get by social and was determined to find a way to salvage the soup to make it edible because he scorched it and tasted awful. So he started putting different kinds of spices and to try to make it taste so he could not get in trouble for wasting and just got out a hand and only got to the point when he realized he wasn't built to salvage it so that he discussed silly and much as putting Forney in the front of the same in all kinds of stuff ends up urinating and it is just escalated. Knowing that crazy and then he decides to run out and dump it on Michael's parents car which was parked across the street and my other friend told him no, don't know it's us like we were always messing with this kid don't do it now and runs out the door anyway and does it well comes back and then of course with the placement we have to figure out okay what now we can't be senior because were not supposed to be shooter and you have a story right so we go to my other friend sister lived two houses down. So we go down to her place and would tell her you know hey were all spending the night at Paul's place take us to the store segment. So she drives us to the movie store and taken back to my house. We watched my house and spend the night at my house with the gutter alibi by my desk and about for us that we been at my house on my other friend sister without stress that she took us to the movie store no somewhere in my house. It was Saturday night next Sunday right comes down to the basement and says okay boys will tell my friends, they gotta go home tells me that the police are there to talk to us all so so Sunday morning and got a police car sitting outside of our house in the middle of no West Utah Norman Ward everybody in the neighborhood is in the ward right so everybody's walking to church. You know, doing their thing walking past the police car sitting out front of my house and long story short, they they end up not believing our alibi because my friend is a good run back from dumping the concoction on the neighbor's car and held the pot upside down as he was running and left a trail of the stuff from the car in the driveway up the front walk to the front door and in the sink was bought by this time his parents come home from there overnight out of town and we all end up getting arrested and released to directly to the cognizance of our parents and we were ordered to appear in juvenile court.

No doubt anything and my parents did what I guess any good latter-day St. parents would do day will go get ready for church to have to talk to the Bishop about this so that morning I Bishop's office with my parents talking about what happens and I'm trying to plead my case and say look this other guy tried to stop him and wanted to happen. You know you know and pleased to know that the police believed us, but indicates to us that can help you with some friends at all. Shoplift something you are still going to get in trouble because your with accessory. Plus, we were treated by the law and the Bishop handled it was to tell me that you help I needed to refrain from taking the sacrament for a period of time that he will determine and I think that that was appropriate because from my perspective I had tried to stop them. I tried to encourage my friend to do the right thing.

Why would they know I can come up with the idea to vandalize so why would why would I not taken the sacrament and situation and experience that kind of put in my mind that the whole idea of the sacrament in that instance, I don't feel like I was unworthy, but it was it was a communal that I would be unworthy because the police car was off from my house on a Sunday morning right, so there had to be keeping up appearances where I don't take the sacrament for a period of time and it looks like for the community. I'm going to repentance process mad because it kind of reinforced me that this whole worthiness thing is Winans.

It's untenable.

You can't do it in two months.

In some cases for keeping up appearances.

It's really not for the individual doesn't it doesn't help the individual in a way that the church pastors, presents a help to the individual since that's my experience of getting arrested, but that experience led me to have a lot of guilt.

The rest of my adolescent years in the LDS church and mental use as well ride because again it's just the sense of self and what you want to keep up appearances of the swimming person on doing everything that I can in anything that might look unbelievably try to hide and not show anybody right so there's no authentic.

I feel like there was opportunity for authentic sharing between Christian brothers and help you stretch saying hey here's something I struggle with and that coming under Christian brother coming alongside you and walking with you through that and not judging you, but no encouraging you and building you up and lifting you up in prayer and all the things that we experience now as Christians just wasn't there it was. You don't take the sacrament and show the community and your pious ruler and don't refrain from taking the sacrament and you feel a bunch of guilt but because you know you're taking it unworthily writing you know what the verses say about that the other ostriches, is to put the pressure on you to not take unworthily not protect unworthily so in terms of how my sense of self is changed since my fifth transition right thanks to Islamist guilt. I have peace in knowing that my sins are forgiven. I'm not perfect I make mistakes but there's a peace in knowing that that is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Did you feel like when your bishop said you can take the sacrament meeting. At that time, but may be any other time. You know, when you felt like you needed healing, spiritual healing, you needed forgiveness.

She needed Christ to be near you. Did you feel like when they cut you off the sacrament that they were doing the exact opposite of what you felt that you needed at that time. If you like they were separating you from Christ not I don't think I would've viewed that way in at the time but I that instance in the other thing that should the other experience where I end up having a small drink right before my mission papers were supposed to go in both of those instances, there was a period of time where I was instructed not sacrament. In both instances, I felt like it was more for the benefit of the community that was for me because both instances, there were people community you know if I would be taking the sacrament. I would be doing it unworthily right and just and just felt like it was it was for that purpose. Not for for helping me come to repentance because he didn't yell. I can like you said. I felt like felt like punishment rather than a way of helping me okay because it sounded like what you're explaining is that in the first case you didn't really fill like is really your fault or you really had Sandra right if I understood your story correctly like you're trying to stop refrain from doing that. And he did it anyway and then with the drink. It probably wasn't a big deal so I'm guessing on how how did you feel about whether so about that. I feel like it's something I should don's permission and prenups must be living the word was all that kind of thing I do feel bad about having done that, but young person since you know when I got arrested I didn't feel like I done something wrong there so I didn't understand why I was being asked not sacrament okay, but I asked that because there have been times where I was asked not to take the sacrament and there were times when I would were struggling with what particular things and it felt like you know if I like they're cutting me off from grace.

And it's like okay use you done this terrible sin, you know, so were to cut you off from Christ. And now you've got a put in the legwork and then once you put in enough legwork that will let you back will will let you dig sacrament again and then you can you can find Jesus again. Now that's canal. I felt because I felt like the sacrament was part of.

That's a part of your spiritual healing and on since like to say you can't have that when I needed it the most was just like a shot to the stomach. You know, okay, well, so now got this and I got a deal with and I can't take the sacrament cycle yeah but you just chop off my legs and pulled out my I yeah like knowing I had to repent without God's help you so short answer on this one marketing first. Would you say good you are still warm in some sense, this is still part of the identity think it is absolutely still a part of my identity made when your something when you're Mormon for over three decades. There's aspects of that that aren't going to go away. I mean just just the way that I was raised to guess, to discuss theology.

You know like Anna Thomas, permission, that's still yellow long time so I approach things we know it is something I've sent a lot of lot is that I really view Mormonism is the family that I was born into. And Christianity is the family that I married into so I do still view Mormonism is my family. So I think culturally and I have a little bit of the was a connection there.

Mormonism infecting planning to go to the Pioneer Day this year because you know like that's my heritage instantly heritage so yeah I'll see any reason you noticed to stay away from that am not ashamed of it. I mean, that's part of my journey and that's that's what made me who I am today, but now I'm grateful for it because having been in it and then coming out just just doesn't understand grace so much more than if I had been in the church at all. So I think there's a lot of good things that came out of the church and you know the things that are good. I still hold onto the things of that archive moved on account also say that I tried to integrate and take the pieces that that I felt were good and keep them then reject the rest. But as far as the term Mormon. I don't try to describe. It's like Michael said. If you always feel this kind of connection with them because I'm sure if I were to go to Latter Day Saints service right now. You know, despite despite the fact that I believe differently from them and I believe it's a different gospel worshiping a different God. There's something there some innate feeling in you that gets reawakened. I guess if you if I were to go to a Latter Day Saints service and sit on it. You know to remind me of all those childhood memories of my past and my mission you know I cut it brings up all those memories and then so I you definitely can't just completely sever yourself from that from your past from because it's part of who you are, but I would call myself Mormon.

Just because I think personally I think that means that you are an active Latter Day Saints.

You know it's it gets it gets dicey to because you and other people that are not of the church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints that the mainline church who are still part of that kind of over arching Mormon movement, and I when I was Latter Day Saints. Maybe I was just kind of stuck up. I don't know. I was like oh well, they're not Mormon. You know, if you're not part of the true church than your something else or something close to what we believe but you just you don't. It's like you either have all of it or you don't. So I'm not sure I'll call myself Mormon, but I do still feel that connection to the Mormon community for sure yeah yeah I was a little it with both of those and say this is part of my story and you will be Catalogued off my arm so I can't log off the part of my story either, so it's going to be with me in various ways. For the rest of my life, my family, you are still Latter Day Saints and friends were so loud I sense and so there's always an aspect of my relationships that will have better place. So can I say I want to talk about is the Bible have something to say about identity. If so, what, let's talk about that and then the last time we talked about salvation so let's tie that all up with what we talked about today about identity met the first yeah so Paul spoke in Philippians 1 Jesus wrote to me to live is Christ dies gain time to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me which I shall choose I cannot tell I am hard pressed between the two. My desires to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better, so he's being pulled between these two sides of wanting to be here in an T-1 is labor and wanting to be of Christ, but either way feels like to die would be to to enter eternal life and to be with God because that's where he that's where he belongs, that's, that's who eat. That's where he wants to end up that's where he will end up use he's confident in the fact that he's redeemed and and John wanted spoke about earlier verse nine the true light which gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world and the world was made through him, speaking of Christ, that the world did not know him came to his own and his own people did not receive them but to all who did receive him, believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man of God.

So we see as we've been talk about all along children of God are those who are adopted through faith in Christ and this is reiterated in Galatians chapter 3 and Paul speaking to fellow Jews prior to their faith and coming into faith. He says not before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So, than the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian for Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. For as many of you is are baptized into Christ have put on Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise. So we see this continually throughout Scripture we see Paul associating himself not by he does distinguish himself as a Jew, but we we see him constantly affirming that if you have faith in Christ. You are in Christ and you work up one of God's people.

You are heirs according to the promise given to Abraham. That was the author of Scripture. Also, that Christ commands us to to die and to live on to him. Luke 14 verse 32 he says. If not, sorry verse 33. Therefore, anyone of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple. Matthew 1624 to 28 then Jesus told his disciples if anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it for what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul or what shall a man give in return for his soul for the Son of Man is going to come with his angels, and the glory of his father and then he will repay each person according to what he has done so with these ideas it's it's were half that we have were born as sinners were born really rebellious to God. And so what were called to do is recall to die to our sins are called to lay down our lives are called to pick up our crosses and follow the Lord. And so our identity is is there's this twofold view of who we are, were born sinners and we we never really get rid of that sinful nature in this life were born as sinners, but instead of remaining as rebellious sinners against God. God calls us to repentance and trust in Christ and if we do that, then and by God's grace were were transformed from rebellious sinners against God to transform believers in Disciples of Christ.

John three on it also quotes so this is when Jesus was speaking with Nicodemus. Jesus answered him, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to him, how can a man be born when he is old can enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born.

Jesus answered, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

That which is one of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you.

You must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes and you hear its sound, you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the spirit that we get that classic passage for God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life, and so not only recall to die for former cells were called to be born again in Christ and it's through Christ alone that we can become born again we become new creations. In him we become children we dupe the phrase being born again really explains a perfectly that's our identity as I could in Galatians 3 there are distinctions between us. As I like where we completely lose all distinctions but when were together as the body of Christ.

That's who we were. We are the body of Christ. And so that's kind of what I read Scripture that's that's what Paul and all the writers of the New Testament and even the Old Testament you see them there trying to call people to follow God and love God place our hearts and our desires and him rather than trying to fight over who is following this disciple. I am of Paul, I am of Apollo's and everybody's quarreling in and fracturing and were always called to have unity or or call to remember that who we are is at work were children of God were in the sense of where were born again as we we've died twice and we live for Christ and that's how we should identify ourselves first above all other things were still citizens of our countries were still father's husband's brothers, etc. we don't forget all those, but we have to remember that our foundation and the Bard identity should be rooted in Christ. Michael Matthew used some of the verses that I was going to use which is okay. There were a couple of the ridge that is one bring up to me that you really like Jan Matthew chapter 10 verse 30 Jesus says that you know that the very hairs of your head are numbered and wanting to really like about that versus just to me it just shows the kind of love that God has for us to get out of care about something like that, you know, you would think about necessarily mean Rosalie asked Jan Michael. I think God takes notice is you know how to pay my tithing are not right or how well my keeping the word of wisdom, but there's just now I feel like there's just this this deeper love that he has forced children love that Matthew was thinking about dying to ourselves and in living for Christ, and that sentiment is bare. John 331 says he must increase but I must decrease so that that focus needs to go away from ourselves and it needs to go to Christlike Matthew was saying about as it is fun to read will quick his first John verses 15 through 19 says whoever confesses that Jesus is the son of God, God abides in him and he and God so we've come to know and believed the love that God has for us. God is love and whoever abides in love abides in God and God abides in him by this is love perfected with us so that we have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is, so also we are in this world there is no fear in love but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love with love because he first loved us.

The reason I'm showing the this passage is no backbone, but we were LDS you know I when I was on the essay I was fearful of of judgment a lot because of things that I did this because the focus that I had was on myself. But if my focus is on God and his love for me there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ.

And so if I really believe that he has that kind of unconditional love for me it takes away that fear of judgment so that that's what stood out to me. Thanks Mike about this and were in there for sure. I just got a couple that came to mind.

So one of the things I'm I like to think about is if you take the Bible as a whole and look at the whole arc of salvation history passages where were told about the work God has plans new heaven and a new earth right and the idea of areas that was salvation is bringing this is a constellation of the potential of right and having peace with God and communion with God directly and for that reason I really like second Corinthians 517, where Paul writes know therefore if anyone is in Christ creation.

The old has passed away behold has come and also really like Galatians 220 when it comes to identity, where Paul writes know I've been crucified with Christ is no longer I who live, but Christ and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. Also also really liked John 112 but to all who did receive him, believed in his name, he gave the right to become the children of God and both you, Matthew and Michael have talked about the biblical concept of adoption, which is also touched on in Romans chapter 8, which Michael you touched on believe, but I don't know you will renew recording from first John, Romans 815. Paul Paul makes a similar point versus and if we do not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back when you receive the Spirit of adoption as sons by whom we cry, Abba, father, and I think back to touched on this this difference right between being a child of God. Literally the way latter-day St. technology presents it versus being adopted children of God, the way the Bible presents it and I think back to when I was a yes no there's this this sense, in which Latter Day Saints would sale on archaeology better view of God is better because everyone is literally a child of God and therefore he's our father and is approachable, but do so to theology when you have to make yourself more than winter softball ungodliness makes him utterly unapproachable, which is in some ways consonant with a view of a holy God rather but the practice of the practice of the LDS church. This left me feeling like I could never measure up. I would never work. I would, I would continually continue to make mistakes and those mistakes would always tallied up on the ledger that would make me unmoving.

Ultimately, Christ I just don't have that right with biblical teaching and being adopted as a as a as a son. I have the love of God. I have peace with God and the love of God's mind now and it's just it's just a wholly different identity that I have now than I had before.

Amen.

Good stuff.

I do want to jump in and cut off, but I had a thought.

Earlier if thinking back till this theology they want to God that so close to them. They make him literally their literal father and they make him a man just like they are. So it's like you what they want this closeness because he's just like they are at the same time.

Like you said, I've I felt I was always never good enough is never living up to his expectations. So it's almost makes it more cruel. If you think about it because he's almost exactly like you. And yet you're never good enough for him even though you're almost exactly like he is doing to me. So it's like so it's like being it's like being criticized or being put down for what he is or something close to what he is. Deuteronomy is within Christianity like you said God is so much higher and holier and separate from us, so it makes sense that he's just an he's holy but but he still condescends he still shows mercy. He still adopts so it's like he's he's less inclined to to help us because he doesn't have to. He's not our literal father. He's not. He's not forced to do that for us, but he does so out of pure love and not by clinical bloodline or DNA because he's our literal progenitor so on and on and off any less making sense, but is just some thoughts I had earlier that I thought I would throw out there since he had me and like the God of Mormonism. I need you most feels like she has to occasionally pay child support. Reluctantly, you know, because where his his offspring, but yeah. I mean, you're right. The Christian God is reaching across a much wider chasm, you know, it does seem really odd and Mormonism for God to just you know it was the cold shoulder because were really not that far behind him. If that's true. I made were just escaping rocks through down the way down so maybe think about a thing is when you're talking about that earlier as I Got really isn't that much different from you in LDS theology, but then it then why is he so critical of me that's a wrap on this episode next week. We have a double feature for you will be releasing an episode entitled wisdom for the LDS missionary that is the first series that will return to occasionally. Additionally will be releasing a special guest interview planes listening fireflies. We thank you for tuning into this episode of the outer brightness podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Please visit the outer brightness podcast page on Facebook.

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