Identity In Mormon OR In CHRIST Part 3

Your right and welcome back Burns podcasts this week, the sons of light around discussion of how the concept relates to their faith journeys in the first part discuss how their sense of self was changed since going to different transition if they would say they're still warm in any sense what the Bible has to say about identity. Let's get into it since your phase transition.

How is your sense of self changed so I cannot describe how the cracks form in my sense of identity before shattered and all the pieces were also staring at the pieces essentially kind of did nowhere to go, it's it's interesting because it's like when I when I felt like my faith that finally collapsed me my shelf collapsed due to the weight of all these historical things and rereading and how it just counted everything I've been taught the church and finding out that the church itself actually changed you know some of its history, modified over time to fit changing narrative in the doctrine I was like okay well I got like an awfully cousin of a mental breakdown.

I think I did at some point I was in one, the dust settled like okay I gotta figure out you know, like to me. I consider it agnosticism or atheism for like a very short period of time. You know it was like maybe like a few days as like nesters are considering about just like saying okay everything's on the table now let's look at my options and I thought about it I thought about expenses out of my mission like there are times where you know I thought I was. I was in mortal danger. Certain points and fully God protected me also felt like just I just felt God's presence in my life and so I was a cycle I can accept these and this is crazy.

So it's like I looked at those pieces that I felt like I I could still identify myself with. And I looked at those pieces I pick them back up and so was, like slowly, bit by bit, taking the shattered pieces and trying to reintegrate them into who I was and so one of those pieces was that while I feel like Christ is Lord is my Savior. I was like I'm not really sure that means right now you know because not sure what I believe anymore, but you not like I believe that to be true in the Bible's like going to be my foundation.

The subject in a study that for now and see where it takes me really know where it was take me so want to start stating that so it was was reshaping things I learned in the past, this idea being a child of God, or what is that mean while we learn in John chapter 1 that to those who believe in Christ to them he gave power to become children of God. So I was a child by literal birth, but I was a child by adoption or I could or at least at the time.

I believe that I could become a child by adoption. I wasn't sure if I was or not and also slowly trying to reintegrate these parts into myself comparing them to the Bible and trying to see in a lot of somethings I was quite sure about. I still had a hard time separating out everything I learned at the Latter Day Saints account took a little bit of deconstruction of what I believe before still, even though all the pieces shattered. I know when you hear certain word is out latter-day St. like Christ, son of God priesthood salvation.

You have these connotations in your mind that women graph unit but David beaten into you since your kid so it just took time to slowly learn okay. What do other people think about this. What does the Bible say about this and so and then it was just like throwing everything out starting brand-new. I had to slowly redescription say okay these parts of LDS doctrine.

Those servers are okay. I does seem to line up with what scripter says so.

It was really the Bible that was kind of my bed rock that I was trying to rebuild my identity on because I felt like if I didn't have something to build on.

I don't want to go through what I did in high school where I spent years and years trying to find myself try to find direction find purpose and so so me some may listen and say well you know you just clung onto the Bible because that's all you had. And you know you don't really know the Bible is true or not and I could see that criticism being made, but at the same time I really studied it out, you know, tried to think through logically and also pray for guidance and help in an like I'm always testing you know iron sharpens iron, not just you know with each other but I think with yourself. I'm always trying to test myself and say is what I believe logical is it consistent with the world around me. You know it's it's easy to become myopic and just say well you know I need something to grasp onto some to believe this thing and that's getting giving purpose in life when I wanted to do as I wanted to have something to give me purpose it was actually consistent with reality and so that's what I'm always trying to do is always trying to test it and that's not trying to say that other views of the gospel and Scripture are illogical but I found in my study and my journey when I went through the tenets of 35 reformed theology like it just in lining up with Scripture. It just clicked for me and I'll like it was just like going through a list of logical operators in my brain and I'm like okay this lines up at this. That means this. That means this and they can deduce it from there and it just clicked for me and that's kind of where all it seemed like all the pieces filled the place once I started running for people like RC's Brolin and John MacArthur and and even then I was starting to recognize okay well I disagree with this person on this aspect, but I still find worth and what he teaches here and so, from there it's like you're building your holding myself up again from there. So that's how how it changed and how I saw start to see myself not as a child of God by literal birth, but but when I finally you know I got to a point where I was so stressed out, not knowing if our Savior not knowing what to believe and I just, you know, I was forced my knees and pray to God for forgiveness and help and just prayed for salvation I felt at that moment. That's when I fill it that God had truly adopted me as a son, and it give me that reassurance in the end.com that piece.

I was looking for.

So since then I my my identity was reshaped to know that I'm a adopted child of God that I don't have to worry about the wrath of God on me anymore and that I mean his family and that I can trust in him. I can go to him for help and guidance and so that's that's kind of how my identity is been shaped since then. So that so when I was saved was about was 2016 and was still kind of got confused after that. But then about 2017, 2018 is when I started really feeling like okay this is where I'm supposed to be real good, Michael.

You mentioned earlier played off the dime a child of God song in the messages, touched on on the difference in viewing yourself as a child of God by literally were ordered by adoption was that sort of your did you have a shift like that in your thinking with regard to that particular doctrine as well as with your phase transition in relation to your sense of self or how was that for you. You know a lot of what Matthew was talking about really resonated with me because it just is so familiar.

You know I mean about the pieces you know and that definitely is how I felt like I just been shattered into a million pieces. After my transition and you have never used you talked a little bit earlier about being afraid of where he was good and out, you know, was in and out atheist or or whatever. I think for me with what scared me is that I was never going to end up anything that I was just going to stay in this constant state of never being able to find my my footing ever again. That is just yoking that many find it for a minute and I was gonna lose it as just just never got in a land you know I finally kinda hit rock bottom Roman and I was thinking okay why I'm much lost my salvation. I'm going outer darkness now because they still kind of you know in my heart feared leaving the church, feared that there was going to be eternal outer darkness awaiting me as an apostate and then somebody give me the book, the prodigal God and so I started reading that and that really helped me realize that I identified with the older brother in that parable that I was basically you know using the father as a means to an end. You know, trying to play nice and play by the rules only with the intent to acquire an inheritance, but I wasn't in a right relationship and you know I appeared to be righteous, but I wasn't in those those a game changer for me was one of the big things. You're right. I started to identify, not as a literal child of God, but as an adopted child of God, and I think when you're when you're really asking really play up the literal child of God card and you think that being adopted just isn't is not is this not as good as not as valuable to be adopted but I see it totally the opposite. Now you know because I see that God is a holy and righteous God, and he she's he's not like us at all. And yet she adopts us anyway.

Even though we don't have a birthright. She waited even though we can't measure up to him in any way. It's like why would you most wonder why would he. Why would he adopt us, but he did anyway and it is amazing is just the way I view that relationship is completely different to you but is not your before it was like okay well enough I if I do something to displease him.

He will turn his back on me until I come back in on the bigger man and I repent now God's always the bigger man. He's he's the one that is able to love me unconditionally no matter what I do. I think when I was when I was only yes I really identified with my shortcomings, my failures and my sins because those things were more powerful than God's love was for me but now you know I identify completely with Christ's identify with his righteousness rather than my own and use is really tough because one of the things that happened during my transition is all my idols were just ripped away from me. My mitral family was ripped away. You know I med even my earthly family man with Jeanette that divorce and just like Matt everything that that I think I was naturally inclined to hold onto and and probably elevate higher than God. It was just taken away from me until I got to the point we just had no choice but to make Christ the foundation that I stood on and I was really rebellious against salmon and it's you.

I thought that I was I was righteous and I was following Christ and really was this experience to open my eyes to the fact that I found it tooth and nail. I basically was adopted, you know, kicking and screaming, and I'm adopted I'm like oh my goodness this is amazing. You know I'm I'm so glad that God snatched me and adopted me so yeah I mean really a man looking all the things that I held dear Wiles B St. you know my mitral family in the temple, my priesthood, all those things you know Christ's.

Christ is all those things to me.

Now you know Christ is my temple, he is my priesthood. He's my worthiness. I don't need any of those other things because Christ the person of Christ is enough for me, Star. My going just found myself as you were talking and saying no, various things just nodding my head in agreement and note especially when you said when you are all the us that you identified more with your sin and that is so my experience as well do. I was trying to think back about this question, I would answer strengthened by the member and I have.

I talked about when I was arrested. I have not heard that story but I'm intrigued so human you may not be as interested after Attila but fun story. Anyway, so a few months ago I did the friend from my childhood friend who was along on this ride with me. I found out that she is a born-again Christian and just you know very outspoken about his faith in, and his reliance on Jesus on on Facebook about when I saw that and became Facebook friends with them. I was just snowstorm those times of rejoicing for me because you know when we were kids we got into a lot of trouble together and normal stuff or play video games.

You know on the backyard and played basketball on the in the driveway and stuff like that but we got into trouble. We were mischievous kids like we went to a middle do no another middle school when they were having an evening concert and sat in the back because her friend was in the chorus that was singing that I am me and this other friend of mine sat in the back. It was one of those auditoriums. This like 1/4 circle with the big carpeted steps introducing those in schools and we sat at the top of the steps and just like paper airplanes to the point where the principal came in the testing you got in trouble at our own middle school the next day, but that's that's the kind of kids we were constantly getting into trouble but this one time we were his.

His parents had gone out of town and me and my other friend. Each told our parents. We don't we all told our parents were dimmest on the spend the night here. He's given you the whaler worked out as we have enough spending the night at this friend's house whose parents were out of town. My parents thought I was spending the night somewhere else.

My other friends parents thought he was spending the night somewhere else. You know, and actually were all supposed to be spending the night at my place.

But we end up spending the night at this this friend's house whose parents were out of town and were there watching movies you know just hanging out and there was this kid who lived across the street that when we would be playing basketball the driveway. She would throw rocks at us and we would grab you.

Note the tomatoes that had fallen off of the lines in my friend's garden and word you know soft and mushy on the ground we grab those and throw them at him and they would stay in his shirt and his parents would get mad because we seem to sure and it was like this rivalry like this kid like constantly bugging us to know he was. He was a few years younger than us and is one of those things I think where he wanted to be part of the group and he wasn't part of our group and you know just what's not a good situation. So this night we were at my friends house were sitting around watching movies and my friends decided to make some Campbell's soup and he burned and his mom was a single mom and she would get upset with them. If you wasted food because she know she was struggling to get by, so he was determined to find a way to salvage the soup to make it edible as you scorched it and it tasted awful.

So he started putting different kinds of spices and and to try to make it taste so he could eat it and not get in trouble for wasting food and just got out of hand. You know like they got to the point where he realized he wasn't gonna bill to salvage it so that he discussed silly know to me much as putting WD-40 unit from under the sink and you know all kinds of stuff he ends up urinating in it and is it just escalated. You know, and got crazy and then he decides to run out and on the dump it on Michael's parents car which was parked on across the street you know and me and my other friends told him no, don't. Don't do it region. We will know it's us like were always messing with this kid don't do it you know and she runs out the door anyway and does it. You know comes back and then then of course were at the place were we have to figure out okay what are we gonna do now.

We can't be here because were not supposed to be here and we need to have a story right so we go to my other friend his sister lived two houses down.

So we go down to her place and would tell her you know hey were all spending the night at Paul's place take us to the movie store so we can rent a movie. So she drives us to the movie store we rent a movie ticket back to my house. We watched the movie in my house. We spend the night at my house we think we've got our alibi right with minute my mind asking about for us that we been at my house on my know my other friend sister will vouch for us that she took us to the movie store, you know, so were my house. The next it was Saturday night. Next day, Sunday, right my God comes down to the basement and says you know okay boys know tells my friends they gotta go home tells me that the police are there one talk to us all so so Sunday morning we got a police car sitting outside of our house in the middle of you know, West Jordan, Utah, Mormon Ward, everybody in the neighborhood is in the ward right so everybody's walking to church. You know, doing their thing walking past the police car sitting out front of my house and long story short, they they end up not believing our alibi because my friend is a good run back from dumping the concoction on the neighbor's car and held the pot upside down as he was running and left a trail of the stuff from the car and use driveway up the front walk to the front door and in the sink was bought by this time his parents come home from there overnight out of town and you still believe we all end up getting arrested and released to directly to the cognizance of our parents and we were ordered to appear in juvenile court.

You know, like a month out kind of thing, and my parents did what I can cast any needed latter-day St. parents would do.

They like well get ready for church. You do not have to talk to the Bishop about this so that morning I I sit in the Bishop's office with my parents talking about what happened and you know I'm trying to plead my case and say no, look me in this other guy. We tried to stop and we didn't want it to happen. You know he did it, you know, and please didn't know that the police believed us, but made the case to us that hey you know if your review with some friends at the mall and they shoplift something you're still going to get in trouble because you're with your accessory writing process, we were treated by the law and the way that the bishop handled it was to tell me that you help I needed to refrain from taking the sacrament for a period of time that he would determine and I didn't think that that was appropriate because from my perspective I had tried to stop him. I tried to encourage my friend to do the right thing. Why would you know I I didn't come up with the idea to vandalize so why would why would I not partake of the sacrament. You know, and it was a situation and experience that kind of put in my mind that the whole idea of know you have to be worthy to take the sacrament in that instance, I didn't feel like I was unworthy, but it was it was a communal view that I would be unworthy because the police car was off from my house on a Sunday morning right, so there had to be a keeping up appearances where I don't take the sacrament for a period of time and it looks like for the community.

I'm going to repentance process and it kind of made me mad because it kind of reinforced to me that this whole worthiness thing is Winans. It's untenable. You can't do it in two is in some cases it's for keeping up appearances. It's really not for the individual doesn't it doesn't help the individual in the way that the church, no history, presents an as being a help to the individual since that's my that's my experience of getting arrested, but that experience led me to have a lot of guilt you know the rest of my adolescent years in the LDS church in my adult years as well. Right because again it's just the sense of self you want you want to keep up appearances on this worthy person.

I'm on no obedient on doing everything that I can in anything that might make you look unworthy. You know you try to hide and not show anybody right so there's no authentic and I didn't feel like there was opportunity for authentic sharing between Christian brothers in the LDS church saying hey here's something I struggle with, you know. And then that coming than a Christian brother coming alongside you and walking with you through that and am not judging you, but you know encouraging you and building you up and lifting you up in prayer and all the things that we experience now as Christians just wasn't there it was.

You don't take the sacrament.

And you know you show the community that your pious or you don't refrain from taking the sacrament and you feel a bunch of guilt right because you know you're taking it unworthily right and you know what the verses say about you know that the LDS church uses to put the pressure on you to not take unworthily not partake unworthily so in terms of how my sense of self is changed since my faith transition like I experience loveless guilt I have I have peace in knowing that my sins are forgiven. I'm not perfect I make mistakes but there's a peace in knowing that that there is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Did you feel like when your bishop said you can take the sacrament meeting.

At that time, but may be any other time. You know, when you felt like you needed healing, spiritual healing, you needed forgiveness.

She needed Christ to be near you. Did you feel like when they cut you off the sacrament that they were doing the exact opposite of what you felt that you needed at that time you feel like they're separating you from Christ not I don't think I would've reviewed that way in at the time but I in that instance in the other thing I should. The other experience where I ended up having a small drink right before my mission papers were supposed to go in both of those instances, there was a period of time where I was instructed not partake of the sacrament, and in both instances, I felt like it was more for the benefit of the community than it was for me because in both instances, there were people who knew within the community that you know if I would be taking the sacrament. I would be doing it unworthily right and just and just felt like it was it was for that purpose.

Not for for helping me come to repentance because he didn't yell. I can like you say felt like felt like punishment, rather than a way of helping me okay because it sounded like we are explaining is that in the first case you didn't really fill like is really your fault or you really had Sandra right if I understood your story correctly like you're trying to stop refrain from doing that.

And he did it anyway yeah and then with the drinker probably wasn't that big a deal, so I'm guessing on how how did you feel that the when I still doubt that I I do feel like it was something I should've done is up parent permission and I'm supposed be living the word of wisdom.

All that kind of thing I did feel bad about having done that, but yet in the first instance you know when I got arrested I didn't feel like I done something wrong there so I didn't understand why I was being asked not partake of the sacrament. Okay, I asked that because there have been times where I was asked not to take the sacrament, and there were times when I was were struggling with what particular things and it felt like you know if I like they're cutting me off from grace. And it's like okay use you done this terrible sin, you know, so were to cut you off from Christ. And now you've got a put in the legwork and then once you put in enough legwork then will let you back will will let you take sacrament again and then you can you can find Jesus again. You know that's can how I felt because I felt like the sacrament was part of the sick part of your spiritual healing and on and select to say you can't have that when I needed it the most was just like a shot to the stomach.

You know I'm okay. Well, so now got the cynic in a deal with and I can't take the sacrament cycle game about you just chop off my legs and pulled on my I yeah like knowing I have to repair them without God's help, I believe you weren't so short answer on this one. Michael you first.

Would you say that you are still Mormon in some sense is still a part of your identity. Do you think it is absolutely still a part of my identity.

I mean when your something when you're Mormon for you know over three decades.

There's aspects of that that aren't going to go away.

I mean, just you just the way that I yet was raised to guess, to discuss theology to you knowing all that time I spent on the mission. I mean, that's still yellow a lot of times I approach things we know it is something I've sent a lot of lot is that I'm really view Mormonism is the family that I was born into. And Christianity is the family that I married into so I do still view Mormonism is my family. So I think any culturally. You know I have a little bit of a was a connection there to Mormonism infecting planning to go to the Pioneer Day this year because you know like that's my heritage it so my heritage so yeah I'll housing a reason you noticed to stay away from that I'm not I'm not ashamed of it. I mean, that's part of my journey and that's you that's what made me who I am today, but grateful for it because having been in it and then coming out just just doesn't understand grace so much more than if I had been in the church at all.

So I think there's a lot of good things. They came out of the church and you know the things that are good. I I still hold hold onto the things of that archive moved on. Matthew about you also say that I tried to integrate and take the pieces that that I felt were getting keep them and then reject the rest. As far as the term Mormon.

I don't try to describe. It's like Michael said you if you always feel this kind of connection with them because I'm sure if I were to go to Latter Day Saints service right now. You know, despite despite the fact that I believe differently from them and I believe it's a different gospel worshiping a different God. There's something there some innate feeling in you that gets reawakened. I guess if you if I were to go to a Latter Day Saints service and sit on it.

You know to remind me of all those childhood memories of my past and my mission. And you know it kinda brings up all those memories and then so I you definitely can't just completely sever yourself from that from your past from because it's part of who you are, but I would call myself Mormon. Just because I think personally I think that means that you are an active Latter Day Saints. You know it's it gets it gets dicey to because you know there are people that are not of the church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints. The mainline church who are still part of that kind of over arching Mormon movement, and I when I was Latter Day Saints. Maybe I was just kind of stuck up. I don't know. I was like oh well, they're not Mormon. You know, if you're not part of the true church than your something else or something close to what we believe but you just you don't. It's like you either have all of it or you don't.

So Siana, I'm not sure I would call myself Mormon, but I do still feel that connection to the Mormon community for sure yeah yeah I resonate a little bit with both of those of you and say youit's part of my story and always will be a can't can't lop off my arm so I can't lop off that part of my story either. You know, so it's going to be. It's good to be with me in various ways. For the rest of my life. I know I family you are still Latter Day Saints and friends were still Latter Day Saints and so you know there's always going to be an aspect of my relationships that will have that place so can I say I want to talk about his unit is the Bible have something to say about identity.

If so, what was talk about that and then in the last time we talked about salvation Celeste high that all up with what we talked about today about identity Matthew in the first yeah so Paul spoke in Philippians 1.

He says for to me to live is Christ and to die is gain time to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me which I shall choose I cannot tell I am hard pressed between the two. My desires to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better, so he's being pulled between these two sides of wanting to be here in an T-1 is labor and wanting to be with Christ. But either way feels like to die would be to to enter eternal life and to be with God and because that's where he that's where he belongs, that's, that's who it that's where he wants to end up that's where he will end up he's he's confident in the fact that he's redeemed and in John one.

I spoke about earlier verse nine the true light which gives light to everyone was coming into the world.

He was in the world and the world was made through him, speaking of Christ, that the world did not know him came to his own and his own people did not receive them but to all who did receive him, believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man of God. So we see as we've been talking all along children of God are those who are adopted through faith in Christ and this is reiterated in Galatians chapter 3 and Paul speaking to fellow Jews prior to their faith and coming into faith. He says now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.

So then the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian for Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. For as many of you is are baptized into Christ have put on Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise. So we see this continually throughout Scripture we see Paul associating himself not by he does distinguish himself as a Jew, but we we see him constantly affirming that if you have faith in Christ. You are in Christ and you work up one of God's people in your heirs according to the promise given to Abraham and was the author of Scripture. Also, that Christ commands us to to die and to live and to him. Luke 14 verse 32 he says. If not, sorry verse 33. Therefore, anyone of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple. Matthew 1624 to 28 then Jesus told his disciples if anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it for what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul or what shall a man give in return for his soul for the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his father and then he will repay each person according to what he has done so with these ideas it's it's were half that we have were born as sinners were born really rebellious to God.

And so what were called to do is are called to die to our sins are called to lay down our lives are called to pick up our crosses and follow the Lord and so our identity is is there's this twofold view of who we are, were born sinners and we we never really get rid of that sinful nature in this life were born as sinners, but instead of remaining as rebellious sinners against God. God calls us to repentance and trust in Christ and if we do that, then and by God's grace were were transformed from rebellious sinners against God to transform believers in Disciples of Christ. John three on it. Also quote so this is when Jesus was speaking with Nicodemus. Jesus answered him, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus said to him, how can a man be born when he is old can enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born. Jesus answered, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you. You must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes and you hear its sound, you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the spirit that we get that classic passage for God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life, and so not only recall to die for former cells were called to be born again in Christ, and it's through Christ alone that we can become born again we become new creations. In him we become children we dupe the phrase being born again really explains a perfectly that's our identity as a court in Galatians 3 there are distinctions between us is not like where we completely lose all distinctions but when were together as the body of Christ.

That's who we were. We are the body of Christ. And so that's kind of what I read Scripture that's that's what Paul and all the writers of the New Testament and even the Old Testament you see them there trying to call people to follow God and love God place our hearts and our desires and him rather than trying to fight over who is following this disciple. I am of Paul on I am of Apollo's and everybody's quarreling and in fracturing and were always called to have unity or were called to remember that who we are, as it were, were children of God were in the sense of where were born again Christians, we we've died twice and we live for Christ and that's how we should identify ourselves first above all other things were still citizens of our countries were still father's husband's brothers, etc. we don't forget all those, but we have to remember that our foundation, and it is hard identity should be rooted in Christ, Krista Mike we think will Matthew used some of the verses that I was going to use which is okay.

There were a couple of other verses that is one bring up to me and I really like Yunnan. Matthew chapter 10 verse 30 Jesus says that you know that the very hairs of your head are numbered and while things are really like about that verse suggests to me it just shows the kind of love that God has for us to yet animal care about something like that. The you know you would think about necessarily mean Rosalie asked Jan like oh I think but God takes notice of his you know how if I pay my tithing are not right or how well my keeping the word of wisdom, but there's just you. I feel like there's just this list deeper love that he has forced children of that I telling Matthew was thinking about dying to ourselves and and living for Christ and that sentiment is there and John 331 says he must increase but I must decrease so that that focus needs to go away from ourselves and it needs to go to Christlike Matthew was saying, but one of one of hazardous Margaritaville quickest first John verses 15 through 19 says whoever confesses that Jesus is the son of God, God abides in him and he and God so we've come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love and whoever abides in love abides in God and God abides in him by this is love perfected with us so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is, so also we are in this world there is no fear in love but perfect love casts out fear.

For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. We love because he first loved us and the reason I'm sharing the this passages, you know, back, but we really asked you know I when I was on the essay I was fearful of of judgment a lot because of things that I did this because the focus that I had was on myself. But if my focus is on God and in his love for me there is no condemnation for those that are that are in Christ. And so if I really believe that he has that kind of unconditional love for me it takes away that fear of judgment so that that's one that stood out to me.

Thanks Mike, that's a good word in there for sure.

I just got a couple that came to mind. So one of the things that I like to think about is if you take the Bible as a whole, right, and look at the whole arc of salvation history. There are passages where were told about the what God has planned is a new heaven and a new earth right and the idea there is that you know what salvation is bringing his is a constellation of the potential of right and having peace with God and communion with God directly and for that reason I really like second Corinthians 517, where Paul writes, you know, therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation the old has passed away. Behold, the new has come and also really liked Galatians 220 when it comes to identity, where Paul writes, you know, I've been crucified with Christ is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me and also also really like John 112 but to all who did receive him, believed in his name, he gave the right to become the children of God and both you, Matthew and Michael and I have talked about the biblical concept of adoption, which is also touched on in Romans chapter 8, which Michael you you touched on believe, but no fun or know you are you recording from from first John, but Romans 815. Paul Paul makes a similar point versus uniformity did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption as sons by whom we cry, Abba, father, and I think back to know the touched on this this difference right between being a child of God. Literally the way latter-day St. theology presents it versus being adopted children of God, the way the Bible presents it and I think back to when I was old yes you know there's this this sense in which latter-day Saints with which they all are on our theology to better our view of God is better because your new leader. Everyone is literally a child of God, right, and therefore he's our father and is approachable but good.

This materiality where you have to make yourself worthy and rid yourself of all ungodliness makes him utterly unapproachable, which is in some ways consonant with a view of a holy God.

Right, but do the practice.

The practice of the LDS church leaves left me feeling like I could never measure up.

I would never be worthy, I would. I would continue continue to make mistakes and those mistakes would always be tallied up on the ledger that would make the unworthy. Ultimately and with with Christ.

I just don't have that right with the biblical teaching of being adopted as a as a has a son. I have the love of God.

I have peace with God and the love of God is mine now and is just as it is just a wholly different identity that I have now than I had before.

Amen.

Good stuff. I don't want to jump in and and Kiowa. I had a thought. Earlier if thinking back till this theology they want to God that so close to them.

They make him literally their literal father and they make him a man just like they are.

So it's like you will. They want this closeness because he's just like they are at the same time.

Like you said, I've I felt like I was always never good enough is never living up to his expectations. So it's almost makes it more cruel. If you think about it because he's almost exactly like you.

And yet you're never good enough for him even though you're almost exactly like he is doing to me. So it's like so it's like being it's like being criticized or being put down for what he is or something close to what he is. Deuteronomy is within Christianity like you said God is so much higher and holier and separate from us, so it makes sense that he's just an he's holy but but he still condescends he still shows mercy. He still adopts so it's like he's he's less inclined to to help us because he doesn't have to. He's not our literal father. He's not.

He's not forced to do that for us, but he does so out of pure love and not by clinical bloodline or DNA because he's our literal progenitor so any let's make sense, but is just some thoughts I had earlier that I thought I would throw out there that make sense you mean like the God of Mormonism.

I mean, it almost feels like she has to occasionally pay child support. Reluctantly, you know, because were his. His offspring but yeah I'm in your right the Christian God is reaching across a much wider chasm, you know, it does seem really odd in Mormonism for God to just you know it was the cold shoulder because were really not that far behind him. If that's true I mean just escape and rocks throw down the way down so maybe think about a thing is when you're talking about that earlier house again. I got really isn't that much different from you in LDS theology, but then it then why is he so critical of me. You know that's a wrap on this episode next week.

We have a double feature for you will be releasing an episode entitled wisdom for the obvious missionary that is the first in a dear, younger museums series that will return to occasionally. Additionally will be releasing a special guest interview claims. Listen in fireflies of the out of love to hear from you.

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