Helping Our Daughters Realize Their Worth

Years ago people used to use the expression of a woman's place.

Elise Fitzpatrick says. The Bible says a woman's place is a place of value and honor and dignity you want to know what godly women are like, then take a look at Miriam, who in some ways rescued her brother Moses take a look at Sarah take a look at Hannah take a look at Lydia take a look at Phoebe.

These are women not serve God. This is family life to the hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, Bob Payne find us online@familylifetoday.com as parents, are we raising our sons and daughters to understand what the Bible says about the dignity and value of women talk more about that today with Elise Fitzpatrick and Eric Shoemaker stay with us and welcome to family life today. Thanks for joining us this is such a confusing culture for moms and dads trying to raise the next generation. First of all we've got massive gender confusion and in our culture today. So if you're thinking as a mom or as a dad I want to raise my daughter to be a godly woman. The next thing is what is that even mean because the cultural tell you all kind of walked by woman.

I just got godly person I have empathy for the parents who are in the midst of this, this is a challenge today. It sure is because we live in a culture that confused and they're growing up so I think our voices as parents are vital in the operating, especially of our daughters. Yet I know that I've actually said to my sons but I'm glad I'm not a parent I needed a tongue-in-cheek way, but I am a grandparent, but it is a different day and then again when we were raising sons and daughters and we just really ready sons. We were even then saying we were confuse what a real man with a real woman and yet today it's a whole other ballgame were talking this week about the dignity and value of women, which at times in the Christian culture has been minimized both in churches and in homes and that's what is addressed in the book that Elise Fitzpatrick and Eric Shoemaker Britton called worthy celebrating the value of women, Eric and Lisa welcome back. Thanks, Kabir thanks and I'm glad they're just they're just going to clear up all the countries you get everything they need today from you everything Eric is a pastor from Iowa.

Elise is a grandmother who lives in California. She's an author and the speaker has been with us regularly.

The two of you collaborated on this book out of a passion to say to us all.

It's time for us to think more biblically about women because we let the culture invade our thinking as Christians on the subject. Yeah, I think what you you know what you opened with was so right.

We live in confusing times we live in a culture that is often pushing one way to where there is absolutely no distinctions between men and women, and sometimes particularly in conservative churches. We are in a culture that is maybe pushing the opposite direction that we overemphasize the distinctions sometimes in ways that maybe the Bible doesn't say exist to give you an example that lectured this before, but this just jumped out at me and was one of those aha moments in my life. My son had gone to youth retreat came home from the youth retreat and he said guess what the speaker said, it's about the time it was. I said so he was talking about guys and girls and he says you know guys and girls are different. I mean guys like sports and girls like to read, so my son who was in the eighth grade at that point wasn't much into sports and love to read and he's gone so what do I do with that. Dad you, in fact, he coined the term he's clerk and he said I call these generalities. Gender is really going to bite but he says that the Bible does make distinctions between men and women but we can get into this idea of this cultural shaped idea where we say women are like this and mentor like that in the Bible says so in the Bible never says anything like that, that's absolutely right, the Bible doesn't say things like that and I remember being in college world.

When Anna was with campus Crusade, our local chapter and we went on a men's and women's retreats. The same weekend and then came back together for banquet or something evening and so the men got to go repelling and rock climbing and the women stenciled thoughts and is a serious serious is to live in our studio right now.

That's just something that is how the women were when they found out what we did and so the next year, we all went rock climbing together and even you know we were making jokes about pastors don't use all sports illustrations in your sermon, but there are some women who love sports and they thrive on those illustrations and there are men who don't know anything about sports and those those illustrations go right over their head and so, thinking carefully about what does the Bible actually say about what men should be like, and women should be like and separating that from our cultural distinctions that might be extra biblical can be a difficult task that it is difficult. I've talked for years with people and set okay for you to define femininity biblically and masculinity biblically.

It gets really tricky to have these conversations with my kids so I say so guys should be courageous and strong and my daughters will say so women are supposed be courageous and strong moms not supposed to be a courageous strong mother and I know I okay that's a good point.

So we acknowledge there are distinctions and then as soon as we start about words to it. We started to stutter and get confused about that.

So Elise define femininity for me, will you, can you explain when we think about the woman as unique from men. What are those biblical uniqueness. Let's start off first of all by saying that the word femininity doesn't even occur in the Bible.

Okay masculinity also does not appear in the Bible. However, we want to load those words, we have to always remember that they are going to be shaped by our context in post industrial revolution America so here what it would look like let's say is, the woman stays home with the kids, which actually I think is a wonderful thing if mom can stay home with little kids. I think that's a glorious and good thing to do and something that I tried to do with my kids so I have a firm that however if I'm in the Sudan, or I am in China that post industrial revolution America definition of femininity, what it means to be a godly woman doesn't fly there and so what we have to do is we have to step back and say okay so what does the Bible say about me as a woman. Should I be courageous. Should I stand for right values should I do these things in boldness.

Yes of course I shed and all you have to do is look at the women in the Bible you want to know why godly women are like, then take a look at Miriam, who in some ways rescued her brother Moses take a look at Sarah take a look at at Hannah take a look at Lydia take a look at Phoebe.

These are women that serve God. So what's primary about me is not my gender. What's primary about me is that God is called me into the great commission and he has given me his spirit.

The amazing thing is is that at the birth of the church, the Holy Spirit was poured out on crew sons and daughters and sons and daughters will prophesy and sons and daughters will be given speech, ministry, and at the resurrection.

Who is it that's there.

I mean, Mary Magdalene, of all people.

I know I wouldn't have picked her.

But Jesus did and she's the first one commissioned to tell of the resurrection. So what is that mean that to be a woman and I'm pushing back against that very feminine to be a woman who has been saved by grace what it means is, is that I am commissioned with the great commission.

Test stand and speak as appropriate into my culture about what it means to be valued as someone God has created in his image to speak truth and to model that. And that sounds very similar to what you would tell us a son exactly. So how is it different or is it the one thing that I would not do with women with little girls is tell them that their value rests upon how they look. Their appearance if we want to know how it is that women a lot of times end up in eating disorders and different things like that. It starts there so firm men to value front pads to value their little girls and instead of saying something like, you look so cute since it back to say honey, I noticed that you are sharing your toys today and I love that character you had your daughter and your son on family why should I apologize that way and you are a part of our order parenting video series, and your daughter Jessica is also part of the art of parenting video series and were grateful for that. But you are raising Joel and Jessica in the same home did you emphasize different things with Joel. The new emphasized with Jessica. I don't think I did II remember one time when Jessica was in the back of her of the car and she was crying because she said she thought she was ugly and II mean I can remember that I think one of the few times I ever probably too few times that I ever really got on her case. I said do not ever say that to me again your value who you are, doesn't have anything to do with how you look, so I never want to hear that from you again.

See telling a woman that her value is in God's eyes. What he has done for her and how he has given her faith and how she can serve him. I don't think. Besides that I did anything different in the way that I train them, but you have to remember to that. My training of them happened before this whole biblical femininity and medical masculinity. We need to talk about these things with our kids. I never did any of that. So Jessica played softball and she was a rad softball player and Joel played football and basketball and that was all great but you know Joel is a pastor and Jessica is on staff at her church and I don't think that those things have anything to do with who they are as human beings. Eric you got four boys and a girl are you and your wife trying to do anything differently to emphasize that this is how our girl should be on this is how boy should be. Can't think in most of our parenting that there's a lot of difference except for maybe speaking about one day if you get married you know, if that's what the Lord calls you to being a mom being a dad being husband being a wife and as I think about just what Elyse was saying, but femininity and masculinity and what we had everything but the biblically I think about all your writing to the Thessalonians, and saying you know how we were with you, we were tender like nursing mothers and so on. Pastor one of the virtues he should cultivate is the tenderness of a nursing mother and you have Jesus saying how often I would've gathered you like a hen gathers her chicks and so Paul and Jesus are willing to say as they illustrate their manliness in caring for people using distinctly female roles and I think it's interesting so I want to ask the question farther virtues that a male should be cultivating that a woman should not or that a woman should be cultivating that a man should not.

I can't really think of any that this is only for man in this is only for women but Titus two when it differentiates does have some differentiation about what older women should teach younger women yes men should teach younger men. We ought not dismiss that is being gender inclusive in and say well there just know there's there's those gender differentiation and I noticed that when those gendered differentiations come up. It's often talking about even there Titus about how they are in the home, and I think that where we see these roles for men and women differentiated, it's often in the covenant context where you have a husband and wife in a home or you have pastors and members in the local church and so where I want to think carefully about is outside of those contexts, how different should men and women looking so I totally affirm that where where I get cautious is where like you said with you teaching your children.

Men should be courageous and then asking all should women be courageous, but let me ask you this because my son called me not long after he gotten married and he said so what I do with with this verse and first Peter three that says that women are weaker vessels was that mean you was a few different interpretations.

One of those is it could be just recognizing that men have more natural body strength. You know there's a percentage more muscle that men are to have an women and so they're naturally physically weaker. It could also be culturally and that cultural context where women had fewer rights and advantages that you should be gentle with them and not take advantage of what you have and I think what you point out there is important for us to recognize we can observe that men and women are different not just in anatomy but men have testosterone women have estrogen.

My God's design. We ought not draw hard conclusions from up will draw some soft conclusions from that about strength and about nurturing right it at my demo thinking wrongly there.

Now I you obviously women give birth to and men do not. But when you think about the activity of giving birth, which in the ancient near East was the highest source of death and terror for women you know what we think about giving birth now and it's a little scary but it's not like a wise man. The mortality rate among women in the ancient near East was very, very high, particularly because a lot of them were married when they were 13 and 14 years old and so you know is is a woman then is she courageous, she even courageous enough to give birth. It's almost like she's going to war and like Dyess and but she's going to protect the life of night while how did we get here in terms of I'd love to hear your perspective and you do write about a little bit but how did we get to a place in modern day and it's been a long time were we see men are strong women are soft and I'm a John to visit them talking demeanor. Everything men step up and be courageous women does not know feminine. That's not female and yet it's so far from the truth but there's so many that believe that and we say that how do we get here well I think it's a reaction which very very careful when we build theologies around reactions to the culture. Okay, so it's a reaction to the culture because again, when I first got saved 1971, nobody was talking about gender, but in reaction to the culture, and particularly to third wave feminism in reaction to that entire theologies have been developed and a lot of them are just Reese ending to the culture rather than looking at what Scripture has to say what were saying is okay, what the culture is saying about gender out there that's all wrong. So were going to say something that we believe is different. So I mean I think that that's how we got there, but then also you have to remember to do that from the very beginning the enemy has hated women you know there it will be femininity between your seed and her seed so the woman has been hated from the beginning, and in some ways it's just easy to slide into that I've made the observation that men tend toward passivity. I've also made the observation that, and then again I'm not trying to be exclusive here because women can be passive, but I but I just observe with men, it seems more endemic than it is with women women 10 to lean toward control toward wanting to to want to feel safe and feel like if I'm not in control of my circumstances. I'm unsafe and so I'm I'm up on some of this back to Genesis 3, your desire will be for your husband. It's to do you see that is a desire to want to be in control of her environment and the circumstances actually in the book we argue. I argue that it's not that okay because of the way the poetry works there. What I see going on in the in the curses of the results of the fall is the Lord affirms that they will have what is actually a natural and a good desire animal you eat the grain of the field, but there's going to be resistance so he can eat by the sweat of his brow. I actually think this is my interpretation was different interpretations, but that the woman's desires a romantic desire that shall still love and desire husband but that's going to be met with resistance in terms of him having a harsh rule and I think we see that borne out as Genesis 4 unfolds where Genesis 4 is remarkable because it begins Eve has the first recorded words of faith in Scripture the Lord with his help I got the sun and we see her faith and anyone mentioned earlier that the first song in Scripture is Adam celebrating the value of his wife. This is flesh of my flesh bought on my bones and you go on in and Genesis 4 and the second song sung is by Lamech who is the descendent of Cain and in poetic form. He calls his wives to them. Notice that now he has two wives he's collecting these women, he brings them together and you might remember the scene where he brags about, you know. He says this is what happened to Cain sevenfold vengeance.

He says I've killed a young man for striking me. My vengeance will be 70 fold.

What's interesting is he's just called his wives to him to say I have violently reacted lethally reacted to someone who hurt me and I want you my wives to know this was going on there. There's a man who, saying, you better not displease me or it could cost you your life yeah and so he is abusing this authority to gain control of his situation and you know to get back your question of what is it mean what you teach your sons but what it means to grow up to be a man. I think what I would try to emphasize with my boys is being a man means taking the initiative to sacrifice to achieve unity with this woman. And if there's anything that should shape our lives, then it should be a willingness to sacrifice for the good of other people. And again, women are called sacrifices absolute where the Bible speaks specific gendered language when it says husbands do this. Wives do this, we ought a note or something different.

On their limits as older men teach this younger man there something gendered different there and we ought not just try to dismiss that and say well it's better for everybody. Absolutely, Eric, are you teaching your sons to lead their families. If in fact I would call them to be married.

I try to model that I would say I model that very imperfectly, but just showing my sons what it means to initiate showing my sons what it means to lay aside my own preferences, reminding my sons of how they may and may not treat their mother or their sister or each other and giving them opportunities to remind them why sacrifice your preferences here for the go to somebody else. The thing that always came back to me as a dad was you, bear weight as a man, you are expected to bear a heavier weight your your bearing it for others for your kids for your wife. So where there's responsibility you bear that weight where there is need you bear the weight of probation in that and stop the wives don't provide her that they're not responsible, but it's almost like the buck stops here right and I I get that because in Genesis 3 when God comes to confront the couple for their disobedience, who was the first person look at the Apple the woman who's the person God talks to Adam was going on here. I got a white why is Adam bearing the weight for what Eve did, because by God's design. That's what men in marriage.

Do it's interesting just to say what are gender roles, what they look like when you look at Ephesians 5 and you see how Jesus is the one who lays down his life for the church and then Paul comes along and he says husbands do the laundry. Okay, you wash your wife with words so that you present her and this is laundry language without spot or wrinkle or any blemish you present her and so basically I think that Paul is saying there in the husband's role. It's a role of caring for his life. In some ways in the way that a slave was dead and were talking about slavery in the ancient near East husband in that context would never do the laundry and for Paul to say yeah that's what you do you care for your wife in the same way that these slaves care for the closing here. Your doing that with her, that is made as beautiful imagery.

This words picture. I was thinking we were recently with all three of our sons and their their wives grandkids for Ann's mom's funeral and I didn't think of until we just have this discussion but one things I think.

I'm proud of and I think it's Ann's doing is as I watch my three sons who live since they were born. Talk about manhood and four pillars of manhood.

What may look like you are trying to do what I never had a dad do for me. And yet, as I watch them even last weekend they continued all three of them and I said I need to tell this that I I noticed they uplifted their women and their wives. I can tell feel worthy. I can see and I'm like so proud of my sons.

They want their voice they defer to them. They highlight them.

I'm I'm I'm guessing it's because and because I didn't model that, like she did, but it's a beautiful thing to watch a Christian man highlight his wife as equal in one her and invite her voice cushy for the came out, how would marriages and families and the church on the culture change if husband said I will make it my goal for my wife's worth to be on display in every setting where we are human and and for her value to be exalted, and I wanted to say to the women listeners. You are worthy Jesus is made us worthy and he sees you he loves you.

He has a place for you. Your voice does matter.

I think that we as women I think that we need a lift one another out and remind each other at that. So often we can compete in a world of I've just there's so much going on and that if we lock arms as women to lift each other up, go to the word together. Pray for one another. What world changers, just as our brothers are missing to our listeners that we love. When you do engage with us, so don't talk like him emails weight we love to hear from you and we love when were simulating thoughts and you may disagree with some of the things you've heard this week. You may agree and want to write about those things. You can always do that were happy to pass on Eric and Lisa's email addresses directly to the what I would hope our listeners would do before they send an email to us a copy of the book worthy and read it prayerfully read it and then interact with it. Sometimes a conversation like this, you know, we blow past something you guys have done a great job with Nuance thought and with clear pros and I hope a lot of our listeners will read this book and I'm so grateful you came to be a part of this conversation. Thanks for having us as no one thinks you can go to family like today.com to order a copy of the book worthy by Elise Fitzpatrick and Eric Shoemaker. Or you can call to order number is one 800 FL today. Once again the website to order a copy of Eric and Elise's book worthy go to family life to a.com or call one 803 586-329-1800 F as in family L as in life, and then the word today. David Robbins, the prison family life is in the studio with us again.

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