Will Robots Take My Job?

Hi this is breathing welcome to the Salvation Army's words of life around them back towards the lifetime Cheryl Guillen and I'm Bernie date hey Bernie, so good to be with you today. If you've missed us in the past several weeks we've been in a series about technology and the church with Jason Packer.

It really has been a cool series and Jason opened up my eyes to viewing the technology around us much different way.

One of the concerns many people have about where our technology continues to head his automation and possible job loss so that's what he and I dove into our conversation today and just a reminder, we would love to hear any questions you may have for us or for Jason. Send us an email at radio@uss.salvationarmy.org or call 1-800-229-9965 words of life we are glad to hear you know Jason.

He bent down so many roads going from artificial intelligence to the image of God and were just touching on the idea of automation and what that means in the workplace know people losing jobs that kind of thing.

Let's dive into that. I think that's one of the most important aspects of kind of AI and technology is what is it doing to the nature of work and I think that's can we sing, then a very small way, in some sense with the cover 19 pandemic and independent kid and millions of jobs are lost almost overnight, and the devastation that had our community and that's I think just a microcosm of what will be happening, moving forward in some sensors predictions, especially with artificial intelligence and automation lot massive job loss, but same time why massive job creation ever you have new technology jobs that didn't exist before. So there's a lot of questions really pressing good questions to be asking about how technology specifically artificial intelligence in terms of automation is changing what our work is the nature of our work is, I think that really gets back to really what we talked about in this past episode talking about the nature of what is mean to be human. Yeah, I think we often assume that our humanity R-value in our worth is tied to what we do rather than who we are and that's kind of what we talked about what that status to approaches that were created in the image of God, that can't change nothing take the can be taken away from us, son of value assigned to us is just who we are and so I think that weight cover revolutionizes in some sense the way we approach work because reality is is a eyes everywhere were already seeing in various specific areas, automation takeover, whether we've seen this in factories. We've seen this kind of the forthcoming self driving car movement. A lot of those questions is what happens when you have automation takeover work factories or assembly lines or drivers, or various aspects of clerical work or ask all these different areas of work are taken over in some sense by artificial intelligence either completely.

Our jobs are augmented were part of our job is taken over and given over to these machines and so then these real questions because again it's easy to say well yeah all this technology is great but then you start to forget that there's an fleshed people there made in the very image of God who are losing their job and we know studies have shown time and time again that when joblessness increases substance addiction increases sexuality and a lot of sexual issues spurs specifically around pornography you skyrockets we see opiate crisis throughout our communities and really throughout the world is that often when there's a loss of job or a loss of our identity. In that sense that we seize other massive social issues in our in our culture and our communities.

And that's where I think especially as a Christian I think when I come to these conversations you have to take a more holistic approach understand there is good that's coming with these technologies but these technologies are in a whole bunch of red robots coming to steal all her job is that it's a little bit more complicated. It's a little bit more nuance in that and that's where I think we just have to slow down a little bit. As we talked a lot about on the series so far. Slowing down, asking the hard questions. The wise questions and then realizing you know, our work is not tied our work is something that is given us.

It's a gift that he is given us.

Interestingly enough, it comes the work becomes before the fall think we often think of the you know the old 9-to-5 Friday take the whole punch clocks.

A lot of younger listeners might not know what that is like a time clock video clip it and you get a punch in the your card or whatever and we just think it's clock in and clock out would job our jobs, our work is just a necessary evil is just something we have to do what the Scripture speak a very different understanding of our work. All work is sacred. In that sense because it's something were created to do something that we reflect God, and what we do and so having a better theology of work to be a fancy put a fancy term on a better theology were grounded in the image of God helps us to navigate somebody stormy ethical issues surrounding AI and automation. I don't think this is one of the topics in the book, but since were talking about jobs and work you know as an employer were facing the idea of the great resignation. Technology has made it so people can work remotely. We've even talked about the idea that you know perhaps in your future you could work a little bit more remotely. I don't think that's a bad thing because this is where technology can be used for good.

It may help the employer but what we lose is that all important body of Christ sense where work. There's community were actually physically in front of each other and that's that's scary to me. I don't know if you could speak into that at all. But what what I don't want to do is lose track of what were not to be able to cover in one more episode of this book are are there any other hot topics that you just want to touch on that you think, especially with your tongue met with work in the hybrid nature of work and remote work. That's a really important question facing businesses facing communities, even common, so that I think there's some value to that and that something is, I think through this. Is it maybe opens up opportunities.

We didn't know about some good benefits that for companies and for individuals and families the same time there is a loss and I think we have to acknowledge that that it typically anytime we make an ethical decision. There's some good that we may be putting aside, we may say, you know, this is the better.

This is the best path forward.

But there were benefits of this other path, and so I think one of the ways we see that as a special remote work is you do you lose that sense of camaraderie in some sense, so maybe there's a hybrid approach. Maybe there better ways to think about these things. I know for myself. I'm a researcher or writer and author Prof. I can do. I can't. I can teach online.

In some ways, but in other ways, and I want to be in the classroom.

I miss that I long for that.

I want to be with my students or something about being physically with them. Same with my coworker. Same with my colleagues than other things. I can be at home and do just as easy and may be quicker or maybe better in some senses I'm not as distracted with, the everybody walking by my office should have 90 times a day or something like that. So you have to. I think it's just it's one of those things that, especially as we approach these really thorny questions and sometimes tense questions is to do so with care with nuance. Thinking not just of the specific situation, but really the wider context of what's going on and how the soul affect not just this very specific instance but really kind of our wider communities in the way we live and live out what it means to be created in God's image.

Yeah, I'm in. So having a better theology of Faith and work ethic that something especially for those in the secular mindset are secular communities or secular work is your work is no less valuable.

Not just because not in the church right.

I think that something that sometimes as Christians happens is we devalue work outside of the church and I think that's where we have to connive this. Our script flipped by the Lord to say no. All work is valuable because it's reflecting God it's imaging God in the things we do ultimately so that we can go back to Jesus's words of loving God and loving our neighbors are self right so Jason along with that, the idea of remote working it out even church has had to go remote you know people are doing zoom hangouts in small groups and literally attending services electronically anymore. There's some writing about the website being the new front door of the church. How would you speak into that again. This is obviously it's can be a divisive question. People of very strong opinions about online church and I think going back to some of those fundamental principles is when we look at the Scriptures about the nature of the body of Christ is that not only is Christ incarnate.

That was the whole parking of Christmas. He becomes an flash drive is a human being.

He's physically with us in the same sense is that we are the body of Christ, and as the church and so I think there's one thing that we can use these, especially technologies in an interim for a season and Cody taught us that, I mean we can gather together in some sense for my family just a little personal aside was a little bit longer than most semi my wife for a few years was battling cancer and we were isolated before in-kind quarantine before it was cool as I we always talk about it before everyone was doing it we were doing and we were attending camp as much as we could. We just physically couldn't gather with our our church and so they're obviously benefits that especially for those who have certain disabilities.

There may be home homebound or with severe illnesses and things like that and so that's why try to say in this conversation specifically is that we have to be a little bit more holistic and how we think about it. Sure, because there are people who have.

This is the way that you know for years we were able to gather with our church even I'll be at digitally, not physically gathering to hear the word preached a bill to sing songs with another.

But at the same time if I'm honest.

There was something missing there was this there is this longing that both of us had to be with the church, not just seeing the church, not just passively kind of hearing the sermon or singing the songs the little different when you're in a room of people singing a song rather than just singing on your couch by yourself or with family and so they're obviously benefits to it and this is really the big question. You've seen a lot of come up with the meta-verse and come to church in the meta-verse and digital campus is an online church and I think they can be useful in very specific applications, but I think there is something that will lose, and I don't think it's a loss that may be.

We want of loss of community loss of embodied community with one another. The physical presence of one another because that while zoom can be great, and Facebook.

Life can be great. There's just something missing.

Sure on when you're grieving the loss or when you're dealing with something terrible is happening your life. You want someone with you.

You want them to build put their arm around you and hug you and hold you in just a week with you and to whiz Scripture calls us to weep with those who weep. It's harder to do that mediated it's harder to do that through a piece of technology or tool. And so while there are countywide opinions on this about the nature of the church in the digital age. I think we have to come back to these fundamental principles specifically saying that the church is the body of Christ. The. The embodied nature of Christ that were with one another. We need one another, not just to sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with one another, but to challenge one another to rebuke one another to love and care for one another and not always do that through these technological means. And so while there are obviously benefits you and I think we will have time to dig into it but missed theological or mission will benefits of technology of sharing the gospel all around the world for people to hear and see we still should prioritize the local gathering of the church because there something unique about the way God created us to gather and to be physically present with one another absolutely never are desired divisive. We know but we want to have healthy conversations, entries, and that's actually what you brought to the podcast for the series. We got one more episode left and we hope that you have enjoy these episodes check out the previous episodes we get caught up for a last will next week come back and join us as we talk to Jason Thacker, the author of the age of AI – the Salvation Army's mission doing the most good means helping people with material and spiritual needs become a part of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army visit Salvation Army USA.org to offer your support and love to hear from you. Email us radio USS.Salvation Army.org or call 1-800-229-9965 right SI PO Box 29972, Atlanta, GA 30359 tell us how we can help share prayer request or share your testimony.

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