BONUS EPISODE: Testimony from Bill and Debra Mockabee

Our first home was born and he got enough you drop thus far. You boil it, sterilize it, and you know all that. If he grunts you run into the room second comes you draw the pacifier you rinse it off the third with County dropping his shirt, shoving back at the ice hunting and killing his art Bill McAfee.

Currently, the divisional commander, Salvation Army, great state Georgia. I'm Deborah McAfee and I'm the director found divisional director, women's ministries and officer development for the Georgia division Bell and I've been married. It will be coming hemi 40 3D get McCauley down and we have three boys we have William bail and we have Matthew, who resides with the King of Kings. Now and we have Jeremy who lives here in Georgia is our boy's under authors are Sherry officers, which is interesting to us because we didn't raise no no to the salvation I think we kind of agreed on that printer early point we storage. We want them to be men of God of God that was in the Salvation Army rate but is interesting that all three of them ended up but do not follow him our footsteps and licking their own footsteps and that was pretty important to us, but it was interesting to watch that our youngest son was a pilot for Delta Airlines and left very nice career. I was a little bit bummed out about that proud bit coming we got some flight perks with all that cost us out of this appointment. You know they're doing all three boys have done very very well. We didn't push becoming soldiers in the Army we we never push for that. When that they knew when it was time if they wanted to.

That was great and we would help them go towards that goal that we really never sat and talked to them about the Salvation Army important topical as you have to be a man of God. There's a lot of expectations put we were so there were a lot of people expecting them to do things that we we had to tell them that it was a part of it was part of our family narrative that you gotta do what you do and we will love you and support you.

Having that goes without saying weathers part of faith I think is a child if they want off the straight and narrow, so to speak. We would love them unconditionally, no matter what. In the paragraph in the story and we tried to assure them that. And I think as a result of that, they made the wrong decision and they will say to people when they see will now think it's a sense of pride for them you're following in your parent's footsteps and now it's yeah really I am. They'll say, but they know in their heart that they've made your own footsteps and the right to see that all three had had these such different personalities. I mean it. It's just incredible that they came from. From the same family because they're so different. But it's been wonderful to see how their uniqueness gets into their choice to be a salvation army officer discipline was different for all three and I could say to one. I'm not proud of you and that was just devastating that wishing one would be a lecture one you could put in the room and they would just create all kinds of things.

Funny story.

We would take things away from you can't play baseball would take the blood which we would take everything away and in our middle son Matt who is in heaven right now was an unbelievable story about him and who he was. Turned out to be one. I remember one particular time we take away everything he had everything there was nothing left to take away from where he's looking at us like what what are you going to do now, so we decided in Scripture, the year of Jubilee where everything was forgiven.

So we decided and tried to make it scriptural to him were going to return everything that is the year of Jubilee is scriptural.

We gave him everything back only so we can start taking it away again so that did not that big of an impact is really last. He was a strong-willed child. I mean extremely strong-willed and add on attention deficit disorder with type activity. I mean that mesh together so we knew we had to parent him differently than the younger and the eldest, that he was a middle child and I think we probably learned our greatest lessons.

If I could go back and do it over again I would do things different.

I think we did pretty well when there's no manual that comes with narrating people that write books about parenting general are people who live children so you know you go through the fire and then tell me how to do that. So you learn a lot in being people of faith. There is a lot that is given to us by the Holy Spirit who guides and helps in direction. I think when we look back at it we don't pretty well to talk to adult children. Now all three of them were built to have their own children, which is that's that's fun to watch but they're starting to say the things we used to say they're starting to talk about how important that was our conversations with adults with adult children who have their own teenage children has been correct quite rewarding and affirming that we did some things right and say you know the term. It takes a village to raise I'm telling you to get. We had a wonderful support group, not hundreds that they were three or four godly parents, other parents who were around us who helped in raising the boys and I would say that is so important because you know sometimes the boys just it because it came out of their mom's math or not Ellison but because of somebody else in the support group who they respected when they said it, it's a total different message so yeah I think it really does take a village now looking back at it being cold and watching them now. I think one of the things that I learned and I think that I would say to parents of young children now is that they really did listen, I think they were listening to anything. But now, is it so this is such a warm feeling in different you know when we visit them. You hear them saying some of the same things that we said to them, you hear some of the principles of family TVs off during dinner. There's no TV, no phone setting that was our thing. You don't wear a hat in the house or all of these rules and things that we did as a family unit.

You're starting to see those things now so I think my post children in my house. Learning is did did listen and the investment in them, comes back in the generations. I think listening and they did listen. The other thing I look back on now is all the times that we had to say no and they were so ticked off at that.

But now to hear them. They were glad that we held a standard that we had expectations for them to meet and that we wanted to hold them to a high standard, and that I hated it at that moment now. I think we've learned they actually are happy that we did that in Scripture that says train up a child in the way that they should go when they're older will depart from the Nortel you has been a better roses for us with our children so we we have gone through some incredibly deep waters of one child, our son Matt. He wasn't born, he exploded into the world.

I mean this kid. This kid came out looking for score running. He he was something else and he had trouble through school behaving hit attention, ADHD, attention deficit disorder with hyperactivity. He couldn't concentrate. His IQ was off the chart. He just couldn't concentrate and he practiced stand-up comedy in the classroom he got bored and he really did so, he became not a candidate for graduate high school graduation and that was devastating to us as a family because the education is important and it was our ego, you know, not having you having a child and he got his GED and aced it. His IQ was off the chart.

But you know going through all that getting kicked out of school not doing the things that he had seen that was that was that was quite difficult on us and the other two boys to watch to watch him go through that in the boys went through it as well because there were some disruption to our family so everything wasn't rosy.

Everything was a wonderful it all makes sense and hunts. I think faith doesn't faith is absurd unless you're looking in retrospect. Faith does not make sense right now and if a parent is listening to this and going through what we went through, especially people who are in the ministry who have children because if you're if your child and you you're not supposed to be that way you're supposed to be perfect is the expectation and it doesn't happen. So I think my encouragement, anybody that might be listening to us right now is that you you might be going through a very difficult Valley.

You might be going through a terrible problem with children in behavior and expectations but we're we're witnesses where testimonies in the voice right now is a testimony to the fact that they do here and they do listen well and the important lesson I think in all that was during all of that Valley Matt, in particular new will not like what you're doing and how your acting that we love you no matter what. And that was a lesson for him, but also the boys. The other two saw that as well so it was a teaching lesson on the winning like it that I think that some important is kids are gonna do crazy things and I think if we are there respite. If where their safe place. If we are there unconditional love home then that will come back in the end to be a salvation piece the great ending to match story is that he was saved. He accepted Christ and he went as far the other ways he did. Knowing he was an extreme, God is an evangelist.

He became an evangelist.

He was street below had a hard straight people he he did not have any breaks when it came to helping people. He he would work 24 seven. He would give away money out of his pocket and he went to heaven he he was working in the Hurricane Katrina and he had been there for a couple of weeks and was exhausted and done all that work. He went home for three days and he was redeployed back to Texas, where the heat was just just if you remember just awful he worked 24 seven.

Even when he should've been taking time off he found a group of people, so he works so hard to help people.

He became exhausted and dehydrated and had a brain aneurysm and he went to heaven with his boots on. Sounds like a really sad story, but I will tell you when I go to heaven.

I hope I got my boots on, because I'm afraid I will be sitting doing a radio talkshow sitting behind a big shot desk, but the mad is a real hero to me. He let a lot of people a lot of people came to Christ as result M so parent if you're going through that to me the story of Matt we can tell you all the negative things and how it embarrassed us and all the problems my Lord. There are many people today that rise up and call Matt Mark be blessed all listen to anger Cali. I went through all of it. I went through three years of total silence with God. God went absolutely silent. I played the part concerning Salvation Army man and I played the part acted out, but silence. Silence. And once I got through that Valley I think firstly got admit you're in the Valley is the valley of the shadow of death, you go there. I think grieving in morning is incredibly important. We this is a very joint overgeneralized statement. We don't allow people to grieve. We don't allow people to mourn. If you're a person of faith.

If you have an effervescent personality of your fun-loving guy in an a and and I don't know that we ever read. So yet. We had to be careful that we didn't get out of that step of anger. I was angry for a while. I was angry for a long time and it became a process for me with other people speaking then to my life with me have an understanding of what it meant for him to go to heaven. You know that signal acknowledging that I'm in the Valley it's it's defining who I am in that valley. When I get you'll get out of the Valley. I mean there's ways of getting out of the valley. When I get out of that Valley have I define who God is my life. If he if he's the God of everything going great. How was it these, the God of Valley.

Certainly he is and going through that made no sense at the time I could look back at that now man I wish I had the ability to write to say people Valley real. You've got to admit, there it's the pain is real. There is an agriculture's no understanding.

I stop this is going to sound cliché but I promise you is not cliché. I'd stop asking why start acknowledging who why is why anything.

Why am I sitting here right now so why is isn't is important and we should ask that.

But the focus has to be on who gave you. I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, and it's real and it needs to be acknowledged and people need to surround him. It's okay to be in the Valley management experiences and how well how I dealt with little different.

I was definitely in the Valley not reading Scripture.

I just didn't feel like it formed didn't feel like it. An interesting thing is we got tons of cards. I felt that her mail me and they all had Scripture so although I would not physically open my Bible. There they were in my face and I I I I acknowledge that now that that probably was a gift from you.

It was a gift from God. But for me I was in the Valley and I had in all this and it hit me. God's okay with me being mad at him and he's okay with me being the Valley that want me to stay here so my we have a sign in our house. Surviving is important, but thriving is elegant.

Someone gave us that sign and that was not clear how my going to be coming out the Valley and I mean to be elegant about that him in there. There's another great book. Great quote by Max Kato that I heard years later and I don't know that I would've received it like I do now and that she will get through this. It won't be easy. It won't be quick. Don't do anything rash, but with the help of God you'll get through this and talk about when I die and my boy speak at my funeral and if you were to ask know now that you and they would say there are three things that tall the snow wasn't in these words. These words come later, but it it, we jokingly say now is always say yes ma'am to mama. Thus, everything about respect about respecting people is not just mom. It's people that you come in contact with. When they were younger elders respect euros. It was important respect people in authority over you as they become leaders now to respect people who are around them, respecting other people respecting different opinions and different views is incredibly important that was the first thing is is always say yes ma'am to mama the second thing is never let 1/3 strike go by now they were all three baseball players, and if anything close. If the balls close to the plate you go down swinging is fine. We will celebrate you go down swinging. But if you just watch it go by if you blame the umpire that that was a not that was that was bad so never let 1/3 strike go by if you go down go down swinging. And the third one was like too short to spend it with ugly people, which has nothing to do facial beauty, but to look for the beauty inside of people look for the beauty of integrity inside of people and for their relationships of the people just don't spend the time hang around. Think of say that they certainly send it to me while alive so I don't