Interview With Marv Cowan Part — 4

One is examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism so glad to be with us for this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Marv Cowan good friend of mine that I've known for many many years. Marv is been talking about his conversion to Christianity. His family goes back to the time of Brigham Young. Though he was not really raised in Utah Moore Idaho Moore Colorado that came to Utah to minister among the Mormon people and as I've been mentioning over this past few broadcasts he has a lot that we can learn listening to his stories and some of his experiences. Marv we been talking about your conversion to Christianity. You are young man.

You're 17 you are challenged by some of your Christian friends that caused you to start looking into Mormonism, which eventually led you out and I think something needs to be said here because your experience coming out Mormonism is very similar to a lot of people who have come out of Mormonism and that you are not looking for an excuse to get away from what you had understood to be really the high standards of Mormonism. The high standard of morality. But you were basically trying to defend Mormonism, all absolutely in morning to prove the arguments against it to be wrong so that you could remain in it and I find that to be a very typical pattern of many Latter Day Saints when they start learning some of these problem areas all know that can't be true that that was the way it was with Jerald and Sandra Tanner and unaddressed all believers in Christ.

They were going to refute that show that it was that was not true.

And of course as a Study that they found out as you found out that a lot of these historical problems were just as accurate as the critics were saying and so this is why I think it's almost humorous to us when we get accused of being anti-Mormon because the reason we get call that pejorative label is really because were challenging them on their own material. Why would they respond that way if we're merely showing them what their own material TO say it just seems like a strange anomaly. What you think about that. Will it is true the they don't like it, but that is the reason I use Mormon material a lot because they're supposed to accept it and a lot of it poses some real real problems. It was Pres. Hinckley, I think, sends a the Jesus we believe in is is different, and so forth.

In an McConkie said much the same thing, Kaki was pretty horrible way he criticize what Christians believe about Jesus and yet you talk to Mormons and they'll tell you. I believe in Jesus Christ, even as my Savior.

You know so forth. But what Jesus isn't, you know, in Mormonism the Jesus they talk about was born as a baby spirit by God the father and his wife and he became a God. According to McConkie when he was still in preexistence and an outlet in the pre-mortal life and all of that and yet Mormonism teaches is in order to become a God, you gotta go through the temple right so did he go through that in the pre-mortal life to become a cut and you know there's all kinds of issues that one of the things that struck me in reading through the book of Mormon was the difference in the way Jesus did some things in the book of Mormon. For example, in the third Nephi chapter 9 you have Jesus actually supposedly destroying 15 large cities here in America and he says in his own words in the book of Mormon. I'm the one that did this. I destroyed the cities of someone burned with fire, some work deluged with water somehow there were earthquakes that swelled in all kinds of things and it's the Lord necessities tell us that the Jesus of the Bible, son of that man is not come to destroy men's lives but to save them. As I pointed out to a couple young missionaries. I was talking to recently. How many people died in Palestine when Jesus was crucified well. They said why did thousands, maybe millions in America die when it was crucified does make sense to me.

You would think so because Jesus spent his entire life in that area and they were very acquainted with him and Jesus according to the book of Mormon pops up in the Western Hemisphere for relatively very short period of time, and it seems like the Jesus that's talked about in the book of Mormon as you say takes a lot of vengeance out on these people who had a very short visit by Jesus.

If the book of Mormon is even true, as compared to over the eastern hemisphere, why not you would think the brunt of the punishment would abandon the eastern hemisphere. Nonetheless, right. I think that's a great question. I don't know if it's the dealbreaker for a lot of Mormons, but it certainly is one of the pieces to the puzzle that should get them to start seeing the whole picture that something's wrong here. Well, it seems to me it's it's the kind of an extension of what Paul was telling the Corinthians, you know, if somebody comes preaching another Jesus.

Second Corinthians 11 for Munford you go along with them and unfortunately it's not only Mormons but there are others who are preaching a false Jesus and some people don't realize the difference, but the Jesus of the Bible is one who said I am the way the truth and life.

No man will come to father but by me. Eternal life is in him, not in just somebody named Jesus and course. Today we we could say there's thousands of fellows named Jesus, but they can't save when you have someone like Gordon B. Hinckley talking about and the reference that you are making is when he said he did not believe in the traditional strike that was the Christ revealed through Joseph Smith exactly and that's what McConkie says and others who we believe in the Jesus that Joseph Smith saw and revealed to us that you see the article in the December issue of 2018 by McConkie knowing Jesus through Joseph Smith. Yes and I thought little that Connor really spells it out the Jesus. He's he's describing is not the Jesus of the Bible and it's the Jesus of the Bible who saves not the Jesus of Joseph Smith exactly and when you start looking at comments like that. I think it really shows us how Latter Day Saints is compelled to look at everything through the lens of what Joseph Smith has given them. It's like when you watch these forms that they have on BYU channel up here in Utah and they're talking about the Bible. It's amazing when I watch these programs when they get to a Bible verse. It's always what did Joseph Smith say it's always going back to what Joseph Smith said as if he was some kind of an expert on it which I find fascinating because I bought a book and I think the title of it was Joseph Smith's commentary on the Bible and I was expecting when I first heard about this book is that this is can be a great research tool. I want to know what Joseph Smith said I buy the book. It's it's not even three quarters of an inch-thick because it seems like there were so few things he really did say about the Bible other than to just flippantly quote them as if somehow it supported his view, but he never really exegetes these passages to give us a good understanding of what the author intended.

And I find with many Mormons. They don't care if zones Joseph Smith set it because they believe Joseph Smith is a prophet of God that makes everything all right. So what you do is a new convert now and you're starting to reevaluate a lot of the things that Joseph Smith taught and you're comparing it with what the Bible is actually saying this is gonna cause a huge conflict with you. It did in the one of the things I started to wrestle with was the fact that the book of Mormon.

Even though it purports to be a sacred history of the ancestors of the Indians and so forth. Nobody sought until Joseph Smith revealed, published and likewise the doctrine and covenants was entirely Joseph Smith. Up until some other stuff in and the pearl of great price. So everything outside of the Bible came through Joseph Smith was for Scripture is concerned. Now they have the latter-day prophets of course that they say the word in Scripture to with some qualification so that does make it so that everything that you believe as a Mormon is interpreted by Smith. At least the so-called translation and that was one of the things I don't remember what year was that I learned that I used that seer stone to translate it, and I have squeeze missionaries. I talked to the other day that I said how many translators do you know the translate by putting a stone in the hat pulling that happen up to their face and translate that way I don't know any I said I learned to translate a little bit from went through college and so the seminary and so forth.

But nobody translates like a and you know when when the church admitted that I I can only imagine how many Mormons hearing that were reminded of conversations they may have had with Christians who told them about that. They denied it at the time and now the church as really been forced to be much more honest about their history there still a lot of areas where they can prove that at least or be a much more transparent than they have been in the past. I remembered Marv talking with missionaries in bringing up the translation process of the book of Mormon and mentioning the seer stone and things like that in having Mormons tell me that I was lying that I was listening to some live that some anti-Mormon probably printed somewhere and again they seem to forget that a lot of the stuff that we know we get from their own sources and do us no good to make this stuff up and have often told people I don't have the imagination to make this kind of stuff. It's just so much easier to go right to their own sources now because the Internet thankfully many are doing that and now we are seeing a lot of people come out of Mormonism because what they're seen the church now admitting to through these gospel topics essays at the right come out for several years now. They're recognizing that the church that the church is admitting to today is not the church that they bought in two years ago.

Finding out there's a big difference in first. You obviously have seen this pattern.

We've been talking to Mark Cao if you want to contact Marv personally. He's he's open to you doing that. His email address is Pastor marv80@gmail.com. That's Pastor Marv 80 the number80@gmail.com and he be glad to talk to you. If you have any questions. As I mentioned earlier in the series. Marv is been a missionary to the Mormon people here in the state of Utah for decades and I guess you could say I was one of those who sat at your feet. Whether you saw me or not but reading your material and listening to tape recordings of you talking about Mormonism that I've learned so much through people like you and Sandra Tanner and others, and you just as I said have a wealth of information we want finish our talk with Marvin tomorrow show. Thank you for listening. If you would like more information regarding his research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint looking for a resource that will quickly let you know what Mormon leaders have taught any given topic. Like the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the great apostasy grace in their own words a collection of Mormon quotations may be the answer. Compiled his research ministry's Bill McKeever. This book has thousands of quotations in an easy-to-read topical format in their own words is available at the Utah lighthouse ministry bookstore on West Temple. Your sniffle pardon for online MRM.org