Pioneer Day Contradictions

One examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism welcome to the submission of your point on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is my colleague Eric Johnson July 24 is a big day in the state of Utah. It is the day that is set aside to celebrate when the Mormon pioneers came into the Salt Lake Valley and it's a story that probably every member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is probably quite familiar.

However, if you really look into this story. Beyond the surface, you find that there are in fact quite a few contradictions that come with the story. There was an article on the I love history.Utah.guv website. It's a government website and it was an article titled 1847. Mormons enter the Salt Lake Valley and this is what that article says it says in the heat of July 1847, 143 Mormons drove wagons down immigration Canyon in into the Salt Lake Valley intending to plant fields, build homes and stay they were hundreds of miles from the nearest town or city. Why had they come so far to live what goes on to say, a lot of people in Illinois and Missouri didn't like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints nicknamed the Mormon church. They persecuted Mormons and drove them out of their states, a mob killed the Mormons leader Joseph Smith in 1844 and still the violence didn't get any better. So the new leader Brigham Young decided to take his people West, in the hope that they might find a new land where they could live and worship peacefully in spring 1847 the first band, the pioneers headed for the Rocky Mountains with Brigham Young leading the party after 111 days on the trail on July 22, 1847 the first group entered the valley right away they started to plant crops and irrigate the new fields.

Brigham Young was sick and riding in a wagon further back on July 24. His wagon came within view of the Salt Lake Valley below. He sat up and looked it over and said, quote it is enough.

This is the right place.

Drive on" and then in parentheses at the end of that. It says, or at least that's what someone said.

He said 33 years after that day, so no one knows his exact words for sure. That's the mystery we don't know if that's what Brigham Young said.

And we don't even know if Brigham Young actually set it yet. There is a huge monument to the east of the Salt Lake city that actually commemorates the Mormons coming through that immigration Canyon and supposedly skull that this is the place monument and it of course is attributed to Brigham Young who allegedly made that statement, but there are some problems with the story. As you can tell from what we just read here it gives the impression that there were people who were here before Brigham Young made that statement. In fact, Orson Pratt, Mormon apostle had brought an expedition of people into the Salt Lake Valley. Two days prior to when Brigham Young finally arrived later on July 24 and as it says here that Brigham Young was actually in a wagon and he was sick, he was actually suffering from. I believe Rocky Mountain fever from not not down here, but there's a contradiction was the unit wagon was in the carriage. We were not exactly sure on the conference report of April 1915 J: Kimball had said when Brigham Young I came with the pioneers he was sick and prostrated in the wagon and what she was writing he rose in South Valley and said this is the place drive on and that's no big deal.

I mean even though we have another account where Wilford Woodruff says that he was actually in his carriage now.

Maybe they call carriages and wagons.

The same thing back then it that that's really neither here nor there. However, we find that conference report in April 1947 Milton R. Hunter is citing Wilford Woodruff, the fourth president of the Mormon church who was there when this happened he is the one that supposedly had Brigham Young in his carriage. He had made, like a bed in the back for Brigham Young and then he talks about the story of how Wilford Woodruff described this experience in his journal as follows. He says when we came out of the canyon into full view of the valley. I turned the side of my carriage around open to the west and Pres. Young arose from his bed and took a survey of the country while gazing on the scene before us.

He was in wrapped in vision for several minutes he had seen the valley before in vision, and upon this occasion, he sought the future glory of Zion and of Israel, as they would be planted in the valleys of these mountains when the vision it passed. He said quote it is enough.

This is the right place. Drive on okay so this is the right place. Drive on now here's the thing. When we look at the date of July 24, 1847 in Wilford Woodruff's diary we find him giving all sorts of details regarding what took place on that day when he finally arrived into the valley but he doesn't mention anything about Brigham Young making such a statement. Now we read that together before the show. Bill and I think you read it to me so we would hear it. I I didn't count but it went.

Must've been six minutes in length, and you read and read and read. It was a lot of detail was a long entry into his journal.

There's no doubt takes about two pages in the book world and I even have the page number here is 122 and 123 is where you can find that account but it is a long segment and that's an interesting point. He gives a lot of details but something that is the most famous thing that supposedly came on that day is not mentioned once in his diary.

In fact, 41 years after the fact. Wilford Woodruff gave a speech and this is what he said. He said my dear friends, 41 years ago this day I pass through immigration Canyon with Pres. Brigham Young.

He was taken sick on East Canyon Creek and I made a bed for him in my carriage when we came upon the bench where he had a fair view of the valley before us. I turned the side of the vehicle to the West so that he could obtain a fair view of the valley. Pres. Young rose from his bed and took a survey of the country before him for several minutes. Then he said to me drive on down into the valley. This is our abiding place. I have seen it before in vision.

Now notice the words are different again drive on down into the valley.

This is our abiding place.

I have seen it before in vision in this valley will be built.

The city of the saints in the Temple of our God.

I drove down to the encampment already formed by a portion of our company who would cut a road through the quaking Aspen groves of timber which were in the bed of the canyon and come in ahead of us.

We arrived in the encampment at 1130 on the morning of 24 July 1847.

The brethren had already turned out city Creek and irrigated the dry and barren soil, being the first irrigation ever performed by anyone in these mountains. In this age. One of the things that we find when time goes on, and legend builds is things get added into the story and reading this and we're just reading a lot of this for the first time today. I've never read through all of this material, but I was amazed at how the words were different. It was in such detail 41 years later because that's found in collected discourses, volume 1, page 163 in such detail that wasn't given in his journal.

If this was as important as Woodruff was making this out to be an 1880s.

How come he did not include this information in his diary of the day of July 24, 1847 quote even Brigham Young never mentions saying such a comment in his diary, we don't find any statement like that being made now. It could be argued that maybe Brigham Young was a humble person and didn't want to include such profound words. First of all I think we would hurt you, that he probably wasn't the most humble person and if he did say that he probably would include it, but in a book on Heber C.

Kimball's title Heber C.

Kimball, Mormon patriarch and pioneer written by Stanley P. Kimball, who was the great-great-grandson of Heber C. Kimball.

He says I'm quoting from the book Young's own journal entry was equally prosaic.

He goes on to say ice. This is quoting young I started early this morning. He wrote, and after crossing immigration.

Canyon Creek 18 times emerged from the canyon encamped with the main body that 2 PM so he doesn't mention looking over this value think if he was having a vision and that's the impression that were given from the other writings if he was having a vision he would mention it, but he goes on to say in that book.

Likewise, Wilford Woodruff and into fatigue.

A bull diarist noted only that Pres. Young expressed his full satisfaction in the appearance of the valley as a resting place for the saints, and was amply repaid for his journey. It was a few days.

However, before the final decision was made to settle where they were. On July 25.

William Clayton noted in his journal, quote, we shall go tomorrow if Brigham Young is well enough in search of a better location if, indeed, such can be found if not, we shall remain here. Brigham Young's illness prevented any further searching them.

July 28. Clayton recorded quoting the brethren are more and more satisfied that we are already on the right spot in Norton Jacob noted in his journal that Young set. I know this is the right spot. I knew this spot as soon as I saw it 33 years later, after Young was dead during the excitement of Mormonism's 50 year Jubilee in 1880, Woodruff embellished the events of July 24, 1847 with the following afterthought Brigham Young quote was in wrapped in vision for several minutes he had seen the valley before in vision, and upon this occasion he saw the future glory of Zion and of Israel, as they would be planted in the valleys of these mountains when the vision had passed. He said it is enough. This is the right place. Drive on.

Such was the origin of the most famous single statement in Mormon history, but little known in Young's day.

This is the point.

This is the place how many people don't have to. This story and how Woodruff embellished the events and that makes sense. Later on, you're going to get caught up in the excitement you come up with new stories. The idea that Brigham Young pointed and they knew this was a place according to this book. They didn't know 443 or four days. There's considering maybe going out but a Brigham Young is sick and he needs a place to stay and most people that you talk to think that they didn't even realize that this was the place until Brigham Young said this was the place.

But notice folks two days prior. Orson Pratt arrives with another party and their already digging irrigation ditches. Their already starting to build.

They are planning on staying here how did they know how did they know and let's maybe Brigham Young told Pratt before hand.

That's quite a possibility, but the story isn't quite the way most Mormons believe it.

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