Crash Course Mormonism -Part 3

One humanism examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when warming is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism. What is the complete apostasy. According to Mormonism and should you as a Christian be familiar with what Mormons believe about it. Welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM this week we are looking at a project that Eric has finished up. He's been putting a lot of time into this and now it is finally been launched on our site MRM.org, but there's also a URL that goes along with the title and that is www.crashcoursemormonism.com crash course Mormonism one word.com and as we been explaining this week.

It was a project that Eric really put himself into to help Christians better understand what Mormons are supposed to believe and to bolster his position on this.

A lot of what you have in this crash course Eric are citations from LDS leaders, LDS scripture, and a lot of other LDS correlated or vetted material approved by the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We been talking about some of the categories inherently given two days as an introduction to what this whole course is about but we want to talk about some of the individual categories that are within it in the first one we want to talk about today comes under the heading of issues of beginning and we want to look specifically at one of those bullet points that you have which is the great apostasy. I may just read the first paragraph because when I try to do in the first paragraph in all of these 30 articles is to give a basic overview. And so this is what I write. The great apostasy is the idea that true Christianity lost God's authority.

Soon after the death of Christ's apostles, which made it necessary for God to restore the true church through Joseph Smith and the founding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1830. If there was no great apostasy. There would be no need for the LDS church. Then in the next paragraph you cite the history of the church and this is what's known as the documentary history of the church is the seven volume set were you quote BH Roberts who said nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What we basically learned from that short citation. Eric is the fact that if Christianity did not go into this realm of error so bad, making it necessary for God to choose Joseph Smith to restore it. There's no reason for the church to exist, so there's no way that the church is ever going to abandon this doctrine that teaching by BH Roberts you find it also in the manual for Mormon missionaries preach my gospel, the very similar statement is in that manual as well so they have not abandoned this just because the quote you cite is comes from BH Roberts. What's fascinating about the whole topic of the great apostasy is that we can't find any specific quote to tell us when exactly the apostasy came to fruition. And so you have this idea that it happens soon after the apostles died. Many would say it was complete by the time of the fourth century when the Council of Nicaea met and discussed the personhood of who Jesus was.

But somewhere in that timeframe, we lose all authority that you have in the In fact, let me have you read the From the doctrine and covenants in church history gospel doctrine teachers manual that was published in 1999. He correlated manual allegedly approved by the first presidency. What does it say is at pages 11 and 12 it says explain that after Jesus Christ was crucified, his apostles presided over the church, but soon persecution divisions and apostasy increased within a few decades, there was a falling away from the church as the apostles had prophesied in parentheses. It has asked 2028 through 32nd Thessalonians 2133 and second Timothy 4334 and it says this falling away is known as the great apostasy that let's talk about that because many times I've I've had Latter Day Saints cite to me either. Acts 2028. Not so much X 2028. But the second Thessalonians chapter 2133 and of course, second Timothy 4334.

Let's go through those verses very quickly and show why we do not see those verses supporting the premise that this paragraph gives them this is what acts 2028 or 30 says, take heed therefore unto yourselves and to all the flock over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood, for I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Now here's what I find fascinating about that. Eric is many Mormons might look at that verse that warning given by the apostle Paul, as he was speaking to the Ephesian elders before he goes back to Jerusalem. They'll take what he says there about wolves coming into the church, not sparing the flock and somehow make the giant leap that these wolves somehow equate to a complete apostasy of the faith. Folks if you just read the New Testament, especially some of the epistles of Paul and even Peter, you're going to find that apostasy's plural were probably rampant, even in the first century church. Now you my said Bill what you admitting to nothing really. I'm just admitting that you're going to have people creeping into our church that are going to try and corrupt the church theologically if that's really a huge thing that you draw this conclusion that that means a complete apostasy will then let me just turn it around a little bit when you read the revelations allegedly given the Joseph Smith found in the doctrine and covenants. He also talks about some of this going on in his own church. He's having to correct people who had false notions and false doctrines he was excommunicating people during his lifetime, who were teaching things that he did not agree with. So let's be fair here. Even though we would admit that. Certainly, there have been people battling the first century creeping into the church trying to corrupt the people we have them today we have them today and you know what when we see them today.

A lot of astute Christians call about they call them out, and many times you will see a lot of Christians.

A Christian apologist, probably more specifically who will name these. Teachers that have crept into our Christian churches showing where in fact they are in error and need to get in line and warned fellow Christians not to follow their false teachings.

Let's look at the next when you have their second Thessalonians 2133. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit nor by word nor by S.

Thomas as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Now, first of all there's going to be a falling away. It does not imply this complete apostasy is understood by the LDS church, but it talks about this man of perdition may ask you a question folks has that man been revealed yet know he hasn't been revealed yet.

So why would it be okay for Mormon to use that verse as somehow this took place centuries ago is either misusing the passage here and that of course is one of the biggest problems we have with not only your average Latter Day Saints. But even their own leaders.

They are notorious for taking verses out of context and this is why we need to have a proper understanding of what these verses have the say the next one is second Timothy 4334 for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned into fables.

The let me ask this question based on what you just read you see anywhere in that passage that that is implying that the church is going to go into this complete apostasy and that there will no longer be any authority to preach the gospel or to baptize or anything like that know you have to read into that passage. The question that I often like to ask when I have a Mormon pool. Second Timothy 343 and four on me is merely politely asked them, look them in the eyes and say how will I know that verse isn't talking about your church because it certainly sounds based on some of the things that your leaders have said in the past including your founder Joseph Smith that that could very well be a description of him and them when you talk about itching ears so often Latter Day Saints like to talk about how they want to be with their families forever. They liked the concept while they may like a concept that isn't true that your nuclear family is going to be together in some world of its own, is not a biblical teaching.

So as much as you might like that as much as you think it couldn't be heaven without your wife or your kids.

That is not the case of the Bible doesn't teach that we do believe that families would be together of the family of God.

Believers will be together but nuclear families were not meant for the next life and to capitalize on that false notion.

Think about this way. The only way you're going to be a family unit, even according to Mormonism as if every member of your family unit believed and practiced during their mortality.

Celestial law you have to keep celestial law in Oregon in the celestial kingdom will asking even your average latter-day St., if they are keeping celestial law is often met with the unknown. They have no idea if there really keeping celestial will hold the person you're talking to doesn't know if they're keeping celestial law. How does that individual even know if perhaps his spouse or her spouse is keeping celestial law or their kids for that matter. We read another citation from this page on the great apostasy. This comes from gospel principles. It's from 2009 it's a very common work within the church.

Page 92, one by one, the apostles were killed or otherwise taken from the earth because of wickedness and apostasy.

The apostolic authority and priesthood keys were also taken from the earth. The organization that Jesus Christ had established no longer existed and confusion resulted more and more aircraft into church doctrine and soon the dissolution of the church was complete, the period of time when the church no longer existed on earth is called the great apostasy soon. Pagan beliefs dominated the thinking of those so-called Christians okay so that's not a very endearing explanation of who we are. I would say so basically were being equated with pagans because in their mind. We believe in pagan beliefs really what this apostasy is all about her teachings that Joseph Smith and agree with and of course those who succeeded Joseph Smith didn't agree with. This is why it becomes this apostasy and what's amazing about this is the argument from silence in this huge doctrine in the church because we don't find the early Christian church believing like modern Mormons will even find the neophytes in the book of Mormon believing like modern Mormons. So where did this all come about leader on the mind of Joseph Smith and his successors that we have often talked about the two historical events that if they're not true. Tears apart the very foundation of the Latter Day Saints church you have number one you have the first vision of course. Second, you have the book of Mormon. If those two are not historical events than Mormonism falls apart, but I'm going to suggest this as 1/3 historical teaching. If there was no such thing as a great apostasy. Then there was no need for restoration. Therefore there is no need for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

That's not something that you came up with. That's something that Mormon leaders have come up with.

That's the premise of the LDS church. I think you'd be absolutely correct in making that conclusion. Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding his research ministry.

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