Changed Through His Grace — Part 1

.1 examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism welcome to this edition viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM, but we also have with us today. A good friend of ours personally and also a good friend of MRM Cory Anderson Cory, welcome to the show you've been studying Mormonism for well about 20 years. Would you say is right about 20 years. What interested you in the subject. I think probably initially is you know your initial encounters with people who are LDS 20 years ago. You have somebody come to your door or you encounter somebody and get your curiosity. It may be that initially it's a little bit more of what if I'm wrong and you dig in and you try to find answers and you realize I'm not wrong and then you want to find out more so you can help these folks how long have you lived in Utah since 2002, having lived here. Do you see that your personal encounters with latter-day St. people isn't always the way the textbooks might say 30 yeah I think you get quite a range of encounters with people. Some of them that I'm very clear to make a distinction that not all LDS people behave in such mean-spirited ways as I know a lot of very kind LDS people, but there are some very mean-spirited folks that are out there in terms of that may be more of the apologist apologetic LDS folks, especially, I think the problem with that is most of what you're talking about is certainly done on the Internet and when there was a call several years ago for Mormons to defend their faith on the web. I thought that was a bad move myself. That was M.

Russell Ballard to cold members to do that because a lot of people are just not prepared or have the personality for defending their faith in writing, such as social media and such and so we do tend to see some bad example mobile sites. There's no doubt about it. But today we want to talk about what we see here living in Utah and that is dealing with what we call folk Mormonism and no doubt you have had experiences where you have talked with Mormons who don't seem to believe what most Mormon leaders have taught Mormon-ism to entail what I be correct on that. Absolutely I think it's a common thing. It's, you know, not assuming that the average person you encounter knows exactly what their church believes in the past. Even in the present and they may in fact embrace more of a modern chart of nonofficial LDS church stance on sort of things when they read some popular book by an author and think that's what we believe and that's what were going to talk about because we are going to be looking at a book that came out in 2017 it's written by a very popular LDS speaker man by the name of Brad Wilcox who is a BYU professor. We have talked about Brad Wilcox on this show in the past.

It seems that his favorite topic is the issue of grace. He gave a talk back in 2011 on this very issue we critique that on the show but now this 2017 book that he's come out with is called changed through his grace. The first what we need to mention folks. BYU professors do not have priesthood authority in the Mormon church to teach on doctrinal issues. If those doctrinal positions contradict the leadership in the church when I went through this book. I see Wilcox contradicting his leaders in many areas did you see that as well. I think so and I think much of what you're seeing in Wilcox's book is the way that popular apologetics has gone in shaft that seems like toward the view that evangelical Christians have on something like grace and salvation. Perhaps many Latter Day Saints want what we have and don't like all the rules that are associated with trying to attain the celestial kingdom through their good works and so what he gives. Here I think can be very confusing when I read the book when it came out, and in February 2017 within a month it had gotten up to the top 10 of all books sold to Desiree but we should mention that there is a disclaimer in this book, as we often find in books written by Mormon scholars and authors.

If you're going to deal with doctrinal issues. This one has a disclaimer saying that this work is not an official publication of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The views expressed here in are the responsibility of the author and do not necessarily represent the position of the church or of Desiree book company, which of course is owned by the Mormon church. I guess that's what could be very confusing because you have a book published by a publisher that's owned by the LDS church and people would naturally assume will if this is published by the church than the church must stand behind all the things that are written in the book and I would tend to say that that would not be a safe bet, especially in this case, would you agree with that absolutely will. Let's look at the acknowledgments we get to IX it begins by saying I express appreciation to Joseph Smith who allowed us all to more fully understand and enjoy the Lord's quote grace and gifts renewed in the latter days and that's a quotation taken from the official LDS hymn book number 167, but Wilcox goes on to say, like him, I too am a lover of the cause of Christ. What is that seem to be telling us as far as how this stage is set when he says I express appreciation to Joseph Smith he's gonna have the rose-colored glasses of what Joseph Smith would've thought and obviously what the Mormon church has so I'm not sure he's going to be able to be as objective as we like when he's taken a look at the same verses that you and I would use in a conversation with anybody about salvation when you say that you express appreciation to Joseph Smith. It's almost like you're telegraphing the fact that I'm not going to say anything that's going to conflict with what Joseph Smith is already said, but Cory Eric did you guys notice Wilcox quoting Joseph Smith an excessive amount of times in this except maybe out of the book of Mormon. Certainly we would attribute that to Joseph Smith but I didn't recognize a lot of quotations made by Joseph Smith. He's quoting a lot of other people in the LDS church. He certainly making some conclusions that serve Joseph Smith would've even agreed with it, but okay. He's going to express his appreciation to Joseph Smith that certainly put a lot of Mormons at ease knowing well. He's gonna probably toe the party line here but does he really do that will only the content of the book is going to explain that to us clearly in the introduction the Gracie proffers this Wilcox starts off the check this section by saying have you been changed by grace. This is the question I asked several years ago when I was invited to give a Brigham Young University devotional address that's the one that I referred to earlier.

Back in 2011, it became very popular. Almost immediately, because a lot of people as you said Eric a lot of people in the Mormon church probably thought that he was saying something that they really wanted and needed because as you you mention Wilcox can be very confusing sometimes. He's talking about things that we would attribute clearly to sanctification and then other times he's attributing statements that would only be for justification.

Sometimes he seems to meld the two of you ever noticed that Corey did you come to get that impression, you will if he's going to do that. What is a Mormon supposed to believe how does he know how to distinguish what is for sanctification and what is it that justifies us that maybe we ought to give some definitions. Justification is the idea where grace, mercy, forgiveness, the idea that we are made right with God through faith. And there's no works involved is Ephesians 289 talks about, whereas sanctification.

It's the good works that we do based on becoming a new creation in Christ all things are passed away. All things are become new. As Paul says in second Corinthians, and so good works come out of that in Ephesians chapter 2 verse 10 it says we are God's workmanship and were created unto Christ to do good works, which goes right in line with what James 220 is all about that faith without works is dead.

So as a Christian we can agree that works are important, but not going back to justification that made us right with God, but rather as a result of who we are. We now instead of in Galatians 5 doing what the acts of the sinful nature all about. We actually are going to have the fruit of the spirit. Cory, on page 1 of this introduction towards the bottom of the page he talks about this man named Brad McNary and he mentions his wife Rachel. What was it that Brad McNary said regarding his being raised in an evangelical environment yeah in the bottom of page he talks about how he was raised as an evangelical he appreciated how closely the LDS church aligned with the description of Christ church in the New Testament, but I worried because I didn't hear much said about grace now why would he say something like that in light of what Mr. Wilcox is going to go on to say because Wilcox makes it sound as if everything you hear the Mormon church.

You would think is all about grace yet where he talks about many Christians Wilcox as many Christians turn to the Bible alone to understand this topic but Latter Day Saints can enjoy a broader perspective, we can read Paul's teaching about grace in the context of the plan of salvation and temple worship.

The very perspective with which Paul Shirley wrote them. The Scriptures of the restoration are full of grace Joseph Smith's teachings are full of great general conference addresses are full of grace our hymns are full of grace and Sally says well it's everywhere. Grace is everywhere and that was my dilemma when I read that because if in fact he is saying that there Scriptures and this would include the unique Scriptures of Mormonism.

If they in fact are full of grace, of Joseph Smith's teachings are full of grace of general conference addresses are full of grace. If the hymns Mormons sing on Sundays are full of grace. Why would Brad McNary missed that you would think he would've already known that the Mormon speak a lot about grace but yet this individual that Wilcox chooses to include in his introduction, apparently didn't see that wasn't hearing enough to give him the proper conclusion that as Mr. Wilcox is everything about Mormonism seems to be full of grace but I think we have to ask Wilcox a question. What do you mean when you say grace that the general conference sessions are filled with grace.

I don't think a lot of the people who walk out of there think that it's all about grace because they call them kick in the tail pep talks that they're told to keep trying and keep doing better than they can and so I don't see a lot of Christian grace the biblical version of it in places like that. We should probably mention that many times Christians do assume that the Mormon church doesn't have a doctrine of grace and that's not true. And so tomorrow when we come back and visit this book were going to get into the definition of grace as it is taught to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Thank you for listening.

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