Credit For Trying — Part 3

.1 examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism.

I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson.

My colleague at MRM we continue our look at a conference message that was given by Mormon apostle Jeffrey R. Holland title tomorrow the Lord will do wonders among you. It was a conference message that can be read in its entirety in the May 2016 addition of & magazine. The reason why we're addressing this issue is because there is a phrase that Jeffrey Holland made in this talk that Mormons are starting to latch onto, as if somehow what Holland was saying is sending the Mormon church into a more grace filled direction, perhaps because whenever you bring up the necessity of keeping all the commandments and repenting of all their sins. In the context of Mormonism to a Latter Day Saints Mormons naturally have a problem living up to that traditional definition and some think that when Jeffrey Holland made the comment that the gospel is we get credit for trying. That's what he said that according the gospel we get credit for trying.

Some Mormons are now looking at that as well. Maybe we don't have to be as perfect as we been originally led to believe. And though I don't think we have a problem if the Mormon church does want to come our way and stress grace and that a person does not receive what they call exultation based on the things that people do, but what were saying is that's not what Mormonism has traditionally said and if you're going to change things. Mr. Holland then be clear about it because some of the people are actually taking his words as if this is some kind of revelation that will excuse the sense that they're doing because they're not capable of doing everything that their leaders have told him to do and I just want to go on record as I did yesterday and that I don't think Holland is really doing that. I think perhaps what Holland is talking about is this earthly mortal struggle but I think Holland is very traditional and what he thinks. Mormons must be by the time they die when you die you will have had to successfully completed your celestial law course you cannot live celestial on the hereafter list you can live it here and in the here and now. So when he says you get credit for trying.

You have to ask yourself what in the world. Is that really mean and that's a question I think is worthy of asking because what did he really mean yesterday, we are talking about a couple of young ladies that you talk to who got the impression from that phrase. Credit for trying that somehow as we said you don't have to be as perfect as we originally thought we needed to be, well, let's let's analyze that credit for trying. Let's say a professional baseball pitcher is trying to get a no-hitter in a game which I think every professional baseball pitcher is trying for the proverbial no-hitter in other words, nobody gets a hit off him during the entire nine innings of the game and that's an admirable idea that he wants to do that but most pictures who start a game pitching aren't going to be able to go nine innings without allowing a hit. It's very rare that there is a no-hitter or perfect game. So no matter how noble his efforts, he doesn't get credit for the no-hitter unless the other team doesn't get a single hit. That's the exact point were trying to make here when that pictures baseball card comes out.

The next year and he never did succeed in getting any no-hitter's as defined by major league baseball you're not going to see him being credited for a no-hitter even though he was trying for a no-hitter and you're knocking to see an asterisk by his name either as he tried to pitch a no-hitter on his baseball card is just not can have anything because he didn't do what he had intended to do.

What about a young person taking their driving test. They all are trying to pass the driving test, but if they kept running into cars or missed stop signs or went past the speed limit just because they were trying to pass that test. They certainly didn't get the credit that made them pass the tests yes so they can't go and request the drivers license if they failed it.

They get no credit for try no matter how hard they tried a law student who takes the bar exam. As I understand a lot of law students who take the bar exam. Very few of them ever pass at the first time, why not. They're all trying to pass it. Don't they get credit enough to say they did pass it. Of course they don't see this is what were trying to say folks is that what Holland is really trying to imply that just because you were trying that you're automatically going to get enough credit to get you into the celestial kingdom to experience exultation in the next life. Is that what you think Holland was really trying to say in his conference message in my conversation with the two ladies that you mentioned Bill, I brought up the illustration of a bishop who was in an interview with a couple who is trying to get their temple recommends so that they can get married in the temple, and yet they say well we haven't unable to get rid of coffee and so coffee is an issue twice a week we go to Starbucks and we only give 5% of our income to the church so were not quite tithing, but bishop we deserve credit for trying and I asked the ladies, do you think that they will get their recommend based on the admission by this couple and they said probably not. I said why wouldn't they because you said that you get credit for trying. They said no but they have to successfully take care of those issues before they can get this card which is necessary for them to be able to continue on exultation because a person cannot go to the celestial kingdom without getting sealed for both time and eternity. So let's say that a couple or individual in the Mormon church who likes to have coffee every morning with their breakfast and they go to the Bishop and they say will you know bishop when I joined the Mormon church. I was drinking coffee every day but I know what the word of wisdom says and I know it's been interpreted that hot drinks means coffee or tea and now I'm only drinking coffee three days a week.

I'm trying bishop I'm actually moving in the right direction. Would that bishop give that individual a temple recommend based on that kind of a performance, and as you mentioned these young ladies saw that when you use this recommend illustration knowing the requirements in order to get a temple recommend, which is your little hard to give you permission to go into a temple.

They knew that it wasn't very likely that they would get well if you're going to interpret credit for trying the words used by Jeffrey Holland as somehow getting you into the celestial kingdom and could we also conclude that getting in the celestial kingdom must be easier than getting a temple recommend.

That's a good point.

Well if that's not what Jeffrey Holland was saying, then, would you conclude that the two young ladies that you spoke with are misinterpreting what Holland was saying say I'm not I'm not going to go that far and try to give the impression that Holland is changing his theological doctrines here. I think he's merely trying to encourage people who were trying to be as good as they should be and are still struggling with that book you have your mortal probation to work this out. Don't give up. But what Holland doesn't bring out in this talk, and maybe he'll do that in the next general conference. But he doesn't bring it up in this particular talk is how is the Mormon supposed to end up can a Mormon who qualifies for the terrestrial kingdom. Think that they actually are going to get in to the celestial kingdom. I don't think Holland is advocating that type of a thought process, we have to ask the question what kind of scriptural acting does Holland have what kind of doctoral support does Holland give for this notion that somehow we get credit for trying. He's going to cite some verses are no doubt about it, but you and I both agree Eric that he tends to take some of these verses and give them a meaning that I don't know about that.

It sounds a little sloppy with the interpretation that is given, but I think we need to go back to this. Those young ladies. One of the latch on to what Jeffrey Holland was saying because no doubt it gave them comfort. They know they're not individuals that are doing everything that they been led to believe they're supposed to do certain things right that they know they can't do.

Where did those notions come from. They came from Mormon leaders. They came from Mormon manuals. They come from Mormon scripture and I don't think we can ignore doctrine and covenants section 1, verse 31 and 32. We've already talked about this, God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance now in principle, we would agree with that, our God, the God of the Bible, the God of perfection cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

That's why it's very important to us as Christians to make sure that all of our sin has been taken care of that we will not be faced with the penalty for our sins, and as Christians we don't believe were going to be faced with the penalty of our sins that penalty for our sins, was paid in the person of Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary. To give you another passage you mentioned D&C one limit you to D&C 5842 and 43 and it says this, behold, he who has repented of his sins. The same is forgiven and I the Lord remember them no more. By this he may know, if a man repented of his sins, behold, he will confess them and forsake them. Now, this passage was reviewed in the doctrine and covenants student manual religion 324 and 325.

This is a 2001 manual from the LDS church on page 120 sites this verse and it says the Lord promises complete forgiveness to those who truly repent. The Lord forgives those who truly repent of their sins.

This blessing comes through the atonement of Christ, who suffered for all that they might not suffer if they would repent from D&C 1916 the Lord promises that he will no more remember the sins of those who repent repentance. However, requires that we forsake and turn completely from our sins and confess them, you have to first confess really and then you turn away from it and never to go back to it again you ask any latter-day St. how many sins are included in that list, they would tell you all of them. You see, this is where I'm having a problem. This is why I can't draw the same conclusion that those two young ladies that you spoke with have drawn in reading what Jeffrey Holland say no if Jeffrey Holland meant what they thought he meant that I think Holland has some explaining to do, because he certainly does seem to be undermining the verses that you just read the verses that we've been citing and statements from other Mormon leaders including a profit. The total profit of the Mormon church.

Spencer W. Kimball. Certainly one is contradicting the other if you were going to say that when Holland said you get credit for trying that that automatically means that if you have a sincere desire to get to the celestial kingdom.

Even though you don't meet all the requirements you're going to get in any way that that credit is going to push you over the top. If that's what Holland was really saying.

I think he needs to explain himself. He just throws out these words and unfortunately I think a lot of Latter Day Saints are running with what he said perhaps maybe they're not even stopping to ask what you really mean because in light of all these other verses that we just read. He certainly couldn't mean that he is contradicting them Kutty if he is will then who are you going to trust should Mormons who listen to Spencer Kimball when he was alive. Listen to what he said and does that mean that God standards have changed since the death of Spencer W. Kimball. Thank you for listening you would like more information we guarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request our free newsletter research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is all of us.

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