Interview With Sandra Tanner — Part 5

Point is teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect.

And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism hoping you're having a very pleasant Friday. Welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host Bill McKeever Felder director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM, but we also have witnessed Sandra Tanner, a good friend of ours are thinking back, Sandra. I first met you in August 1977 how my my my poor wife.

We've been married for years in this was our first vacation was to Salt Lake City and I tell you I just love my wife for all that she put up with me and still puts up with me regarding my interest in this topic. I remember sitting in your front room in 1977 just having a conversation with you and Gerald came in, poked his head around the corner and set a few things in common was gone he shy one was that yes they live. Eric had an idea that might cover a lot of subjects very quickly and it's a word association so we wanted to do this for our last show with you. So working to mention a word or a phrase or even possibly even a name depending on which time we have, and I just want to get your thoughts regarding that particular topic. The first one anti-Mormon well at some phrase that Mormons used to shut down conversations and everything that's critical are raises a question about their truth claims is automatically anti-Mormon. Even if you quote Mormon documents Mormon magazines Mormon box. They'll say all that's anti-Mormon literature and I'm like hello this was strong profit said that while yes but you would not known about it unless you are reading anti-Mormon literature. Yeah, here's another one. Mormon apologists not what we mean by this is not just individuals but in Mormonism. There's an apologetics organization.

Now it's known as the Neil Maxwell Institute used to be known as forms the foundation for ancient research and Mormon studies and there's also fair foundation for apologetics information research your thoughts on these Mormon apologists. While they have a big job because Mormon history is so convoluted and change so much. Through the years that there's always arguments to be made against Mormon truth claims by pointing to these different. The Mormonism when everything was in flux and the Scriptures being change doctors changed everything.

So with people like us pounding the pavement out there trying to make them fast up to the early record of their movement. They've had to develop an argument to combat the non-Mormon arguments against Mormonism and so ants we have Mormon apologetics trying to smooth the way of why it doesn't matter that the revelations have been rewritten why it doesn't matter that there's no evidence for the book of Mormon why it doesn't matter that Joseph Smith married 30 some odd women and half of them or whatever number were already married to living men, so they have to have this apologetics to answer all the problem areas that have been thrown out of people are flooding out of Mormonism because of these problems, they realize that things don't add up. And so they're getting their own answers together to try to refute or to downplay the importance of the problems, just very quickly in your experience in talking with people who are coming out of Mormonism. Do you often hear critical comments about Mormon apologetics and how unconvincing it is for many of those that are realizing that they believe the lie all these years.

Well a few years ago, one of the Mormon scholars came out with a book called Joseph Smith. Rough Stone rolling which was supposed to be an answer to the critics against Mormonism to give a Mormon explanation of Joseph's life but I have people say to me that they went to that book hoping it would answer problems been raised to them only to open the door to realize no, there aren't really good answers. I have people tell me they went to farms or they went to fair websites to look for answers and found their answers to be insufficient so that the very things they put forward as solutions have ended up for many of their own people to be avenues of driving him into further research and away from Mormonism when they realize they don't really have good answers you would mention the book.

Rough Stone rolling by Richard bushman Mormon Scott very well respected scholar and I think for the most part he's probably much more candid, much more honest than most historians that I've read, but that leads me into my next one. The gospel topics essays yes will hear again you see the church trying to respond to the problem of they increase in awareness across the nation in the English-speaking world of the problem areas in Mormonism and with the invention of the Internet and the ease at which people can Google any topic of Mormonism and come across critical material that churches evidently decided they needed some the kind of official response and so they wrote these dozen or so articles called gospel topics essays so they have an article on trying to explain the first vision accounts that we have all these different accounts in early Mormonism of Joseph Smith's first vision. Whether was Jesus. Many angels are God so that people would hopefully go to that and say all well okay there's an answer that and then they wrote one on why they were so late giving priesthood to Blacks, they wrote one on the book of Abraham trying to explain why the book of Abraham. Primary documents don't translate what Joseph Smith said so they've been trying to put forward ways in which a Mormon could have seen critical stuff on Mormonism find an answer that would hopefully allow them to stay Mormon. However, I have people say to me that someone in their family had brought up an issue to them. They went to gospel topics, essays, hoping to find the answer only to realize the church was doing spin and that these were really just smokescreens over the real problems and the essays themselves became a gateway for many people to go further into a researcher, Mormonism, and to leave some of those people will become Christians.

Many will even become atheists. But the Mormon church has not been able to stem the flow of people out that are leaving because of historical issues doctrinal issues there answers just don't seem to be sufficient and then those people will end up down at the bookstore, talking to me. We had a lot of people come to us as a result, looking at the gospel topics essays.

Unfortunately a lot of latter-day Saints don't even know they exist. Still to this day coming out since late 2013 that the bookstore you find struggling Mormons bringing that up to you when they come in, but when they come and I asked them know about first started you studying what first got your attention, and then they'll usually say something like, while a friend of mine brought something up and so I went to the essays to find the answer and saw that it wasn't sufficient and which started them studying and now they're down at the bookstore. So for many it was self-defense that they wanted to find an answer through their church and then they realize the church answer wasn't sufficient. Here's our next term. The Mormon Temple.

Okay, the Mormon Temple is this psychological glue that keeps people in Mormonism they go through this Temple ritual swear an oath of obedience to the church and make these commitments before they feel before God and that helps to keep people tied to Mormonism emotionally, even if they start to have questions. So it's and the most important ritual in Mormonism. It is the psychological tie that even when they started out Mormonism I talk to people that suggest pride found before God in the temple to always uphold the Mormon church.

How can I believe I would be going against my promise to God as well by that reasoning. No one could ever leave witchcraft because they've made vows to always follow that or any other false religion that would be out there. God doesn't hold you to making promises to lies want you to follow the truth, it's interesting you bring that up because I remember having a conversation with a Mormon who would go through the temple and it wasn't so much the promises he made to God. It was the penalties that he was worried about some of those things that they talk about in the temple about course back then it was more visual as far as having your throat cut your stomach opened up and things like that. He was worried that maybe that would happen to him.

So you have to kind of calm them. And since all that's not going to happen.

They don't have damn nights looking out for its Mormons any longer, or anything like that right. I should mention that the temple ritual was changed in 1990 to take out the death house that they used to make in the ceremony but even without those also having a throat slit if you tell the ceremony people still feel this fear of going against the promises they made in the temple. Our next topic. Brigham Young, Brigham Young, husband of the 50 some odd women. Father of 56 children, tyrant, ruler of Utah territory and my great great grandpa is a familial about the word of wisdom, the health code of Mormonism and when I was growing up in Mormonism.

There was the debate about whether you could drink Coke and the really strong Mormon kids would not touch Coke.

I obviously came from a more liberal family. I was allowed to drink Coke but none of us had tea or coffee or liquor. Those were just absolutely taboo. However, the Mormons don't follow all of the word of wisdom, it says you're supposed to eat meat sparingly and only in times of famine or winter or whatever supposed to eat fruit in the season thereof and all the Mormons can and have preserved in their cupboards and I'm thinking a house that eating fruit in the season thereof, but they pick and choose what parts they want to follow but the wisdom doesn't say that you shouldn't smoke and it doesn't say you shouldn't have tea and coffee. It just says you shouldn't have hot drinks and that tobacco is for cows or whatever. Bruce Kerry Mrs. know how that works but do you see with all the evidence showing coffee to be a health food. Now you think deliver change that while they are getting more lax on it in some quarters, for instance, the couple years ago they came out with the thing that while it wasn't about the caffeine when it came out that it was a little bit of caffeine was good for you all. It was never about the caffeine it's about obedience as about your ability to say you'll do whatever God tells you to do well know when I was growing up. It was absolutely about caffeine. I sat through many a talk of how bad caffeine is for you we been talking to Sandra Tanner, the founder of Utah lighthouse ministry. If you are ever in the Salt Lake area and want to stop by and visit Utah lighthouse bookstore at 1358 self West Temple right Southwest Temple across from the ballpark. That's usually an easy way to remember I always tell people kind of imagine where the bullpen is in the ballpark were directly west of that.

And also if you want to check out the website, it's you TL M.org you TL M.Ward for Utah lighthouse ministry sooner.

It is been fun doing this. This past week. We need to do this again because you have so many stories to tell, but I thank you for being on and again if you want to check out Utah lighthouse ministry go to WW W.you TL M.org hope you have a great weekend. Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint