Christmas Book Citations Joseph Smith Part 1

.1 Mormonism examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson.

My colleague at MRM we continue looking at books that were given away as Christmas gifts. Between the years 1981, 2017 by the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to various other general authorities in the church as well as many employees of the LDS church.

We ended yesterday show by talking about the subject of hunting and how that topic was handled in a book gospel doctrine. It is a collection of sermons and writings by the six president of the church.

Joseph F. Smith, but we ended the show by citing the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, a book that was given out in 1991 regarding that same topic. The topic of hunting. We want to continue looking at the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. This was compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th president of the church and were going to look at some statements that were made by Joseph Smith that are found in this book, a book that was given away as a Christmas gift. And as we been explaining throughout the series. You would think that if the first presidency felt to give this book as a gift. They must've believed what was in that book can of course wanted the reader to believe what's in it as well. Today were going to begin looking at pages 156 and 57 of teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It says I will give you one of the keys of the mysteries of the kingdom.

It is an eternal principle that has existed with God from all eternity. Stopping there Eric because when I read that this eternal principle has existed with God from all eternity. In the context of Mormonism. What God are we talking about and the reason I asked that is because if this is an eternal principle it makes sense that you would have to have someone who is eternal in order to give the principal yet he says it existed with God from all eternity.

But yet, Joseph Smith, the same Joseph Smith in the same block on page 345 says we've imagined. And suppose that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see. So Joseph Smith teaches that his God is not the God from all eternity that he had a beginning as God. Not that he didn't exist eternally as intelligences like the rest of us. According to section 93 in the doctrine and covenants, but when he talks about this eternal principle that existed with God from all eternity. We have to ask the question, who is he talking about. There is no God from all eternity.

In the context of Mormonism. There just isn't how many gods there are.

I do not know but there never was a time when there were not God's, and worlds.

According to Brigham Young the second president of the LDS church so I think that's a fair question to ask.

Who is he talking about here. He continues that man who rises up to condemn others finding fault with the church saying that they are out of the way while he himself is righteous, the know assuredly that that man is on the high road to apostasy and if he does not repent Will apostatized as God lives.

So he switches gears here from talking about these eternal principles. These mysteries of the kingdom to rebuking anybody in his church who thinks that they have the authority to find fault with the church and criticize them for doing something that they obviously personally feel they are doing incorrectly. If you do that in the LDS church as Joseph Smith says here you are on the high road to apostasy. This is why you don't often find members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, publicly offering criticism to the leadership in the church. It's not that that's never happened in the past, but many times, especially in years past, not so much right now, but in years past. If you did that you would be disciplined.

You would either be disfellowshipped from the church or even more extreme you would be excommunicated from the church. Another citation from the book is on page 21 and it says I will inform you that it is contrary to the economy of God, for any member of the church or anyone to receive instruction for those in authority higher than themselves. Now this is on page 21 of teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It's not next to, of course, page 100 5657 that we just read you, but the themes are pretty similar when you agree Eric because when he says I will inform you that it is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the church anyone to receive instruction for those in authority higher than themselves, and leaders have used that quote many times. In fact, we have one from L.

Tom Perry, who was an apostle of the church in the & the conference edition November 2003, page 86 cites a Senate talk that he gave. We believe all that God is revealed because the leaders want to make sure the membership knows that they're in charge. They're the ones who form doctrine and this goes back to the very beginning of the religion.

So what do we do with many of those apologists in the LDS church who think that they can be critical of statements made by earlier leaders.

Or let's say, a professor at Brigham Young University who teaches his students that some things that the prophets of the past have taught are incorrect or should not be taken seriously. What we do with them will. This is why when I'm having a conversation with a latter-day St., and they want to be critical of let's say a person like Brigham Young or even a Mormon apostle like Bruce McConkie in the cookie said a lot of things that were pretty controversial. I don't think he was really out of line in the context of Mormonism with much of what he said. I think his biggest sin was that he was just too blunt about it. Name gave Mormons very little wiggle room to escape what he really meant by what he was saying when I have Mormons criticize their leaders or say that they don't agree with them. I look at that as a concession, that these leaders should not be believed and if they don't want to believe their own leaders. Why do you think we should in other words, when a latter-day sink criticizes with their leaders of taught in the past. They're not really selling Mormonism very well and if they don't want to agree with their leaders than I see no responsibility on my part to believe them either citation on page 368 Joseph Smith said when did I ever teach anything wrong from the stand when when it was I ever confounded. I want to triumph in Israel before I depart hence and am no more scene. I never told you I was perfect.

But there is no air in the revelations which I have taught how many times have I talked to a latter-day Satan where when I'm citing Joseph Smith. They respond by saying will Joseph Smith wasn't perfect.

He was a flawed man, just like the rest of us in those conversations.

I'm not really trying to make a case that I was expecting Joseph Smith to be perfect and virtuous in all areas of life. What I'm trying to get across to the latter-day site when I cite Joseph Smith is based on exactly this.

What he said regarding what he taught. He said I want to triumph in Israel before I depart hence and am no more scene.

I never told you I was perfect and I think here he speaking to virtue, never making any type of human flaw or mistake. But then he goes on, but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught that would also include the revelation that God was not God from all eternity.

He's not making a mistake there, folks he's admitting that what he says in this and other teachings should be accepted as truth from God himself.

So when you cite Joseph Smith. You might want to remember this citation from page 368 in the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Remember Joseph Fielding Smith put this book together. He inserted all these quotations in this book was given away as a Christmas gift in 1991 by the first presidency at that time so they obviously believed what Joseph Smith was saying about lower trying to hold their feet to the fire. I think oftentimes were going to hear this citation on page 278 of the same book, latter-day St., who's going to try to get out of what may be former leader has said because this is saying Wednesday, February 8 this morning is talking about just dismiss Journal this morning. I read German and visited with the brother and sister from Michigan who thought that quote a profit is always a prophet quote" but I told them that a prophet was a prophet only when he was acting as such, I can't even count how many times I've heard that statement from members of the LDS church that I've been talking to one on one. It seems to be the escape clause that if you bring up something that Joseph Smith said that they are having a difficult time believing or let's say I'm having a difficult time believing this it will yeah but a prophet is not always a prophet is only a prophet when he was acting as such, was he acting as a prophet when he said there is no error in the revelations which he has taught was he acting as a prophet when he said that and how do I know he was acting as a prophet when he said that a prophet is only prophet when he is acting as such and the reason why question.

This is because if you look at the context as you said this is from Joseph Smith.

Journal. He says this morning I read German and visited with her brother and sister from Michigan. They were the ones he said erroneously believe that a prophet is always a prophet. He's having a private conversation with a couple who belong to his church that have a question about something and he's merely explaining it.

This is not a general conference message. This doesn't become a part of any general conference message till later on when Mormon leaders felt they better throw that into a conference message because conference messages are supposed to be the voice of God speaking through his servants. Now it becomes official. How convenient.

What seems like many Latter Day Saints want there to be at thus saith the Lord that precedes whatever it is that were pointing to that they may not like, but there is no thus saith the Lord here and it's not voted upon by the general membership but I thought that's how doctrine is supposed to come by having the membership agreed to what has been said in the public format, not in a private setting. You would think so.

And that certainly shows an inconsistency, but even when it comes to prefacing the statement with this saith the Lord that has also been refuted because many of the revelations in the doctrine and covenants don't begin with that phrase.

It was J. Reuben Clark, a member of the first presidency and this is cited in teachings of the living prophets, 1982 edition, page 21. This is what he said there are those who insist that unless the prophet of the Lord declares, thus saith the Lord. The message may not be taken as a revelation. This he said is a false testing standard for while many of our modern revelations as contained in the doctrine and covenants do contain those words. There are many that do not sow a latter-day St. couldn't even use that as an argument. They can't say well he didn't say that, saith the Lord.

Therefore, it should be taken seriously. That's not what J. Reuben Clark said, and I think in the context of Mormonism, you would have to say the J. Reuben Clark was accurate. Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is sharing your faith with the light of day, saying it helps to know what their church is taught in several basic topics. For this reason, this research ministry has provided its crash course is a crash course, Mormonism includes concise articles highlighting what LDS leaders and church manuals have taught on issues that will probably come up in a typical conversation. You can find these informative articles and crash course Mormonism.com that's crash course Mormonism.com