Joseph Smith as Translator Part 3

101 for teams is a valuable resource for anyone wanting a simplified view of the Mormon religion from a Christian perspective woman is 101 for teams is available at the Utah lighthouse bookstore in Salt Lake City or MRM.org .1, then as it examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism are thanks Adams wrote them for that musical introduction welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson.

My colleague at MRM, but we also have with us this week Sandra Tanner Sander is the founder of Utah lighthouse ministry and you can check out her bookstore at 1358 S. West Temple and check out our website as well.

It's UT LM.org UT LM.org we been talking about Joseph Smith as a translator and for those new to the show.

Joseph Smith was the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints claimed that he was a prophet sear and revel later and that also. He had the ability to translate so we been looking at some of the literature, you might say that he has supposedly translated and we find that there certainly are a lot of questions regarding the things that he has brought forth. Today we want to talk about the book of Moses and I would say Sander that the book of Moses is probably a lesser known book that is really unique to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, even though it's supposedly a translation taken from the book of Genesis. It's found in the pearl of great price. I want to read this introduction by John with so John Witzel was a Mormon apostle. He wrote a book called Joseph Smith seeker after truth prophet of God and inciting from page 254. This is what Witzel said the pearl of great price contains the book of Moses as revealed to the prophet, in 1830. Shortly after the organization of the church. This book came as a part of the revision or inspired translation of the Bible since the church has not yet attempted to publish Joseph Smith's revision in full. The book of Moses not complete has been published separately. This publication was made in the days of Joseph Smith. The book of Moses amplifies many of the brief accounts given in the Bible. Rendition of Genesis tell us a bit about this book of Moses because I find that it's not something that's often brought up by Latter Day Saints right and saw you would find there's no manuscript that he supposedly using for this translation, so it strictly by revelation that he is given this rendering of Moses deposit account of Genesis that in the book of Moses you have a creation story and if we take this at face value that this was what Moses would've truly taught it would be a little different on the view of God than what they teach today because in the story of creation is just heavenly father and Jesus working on their creation and it's the standard creation story with just a little embellishments of God in Jesus to a network of creation. The odd thing is is that when they then in the next section of their probably great price is the book of Abraham. A record supposedly written by Abraham because of Joseph buying a set of Egyptian papyrus. He supposedly translated one of these to be the writings of Abraham and this also contained a Genesis creation story and yet the creation story in that book is different so right side-by-side in the pearl of great price. You have the book of Moses creation story Jesus and God, then the book of Abraham creation story where it's they that God's plural created everything and when we look at Joseph Smith's teachings of God. You see this evolution of the book of Mormon, the book of Moses teaching one God, and then through the years.

He gradually gets more and more into this idea that there is a plurality of gods so he does the book of Moses.

In 1830 where it says God and Jesus. But then by the time he gets to Nauvoo in the 1840s when he works on that part of the book of Abraham that deals with the creation story. He now has a new version and so Abraham tells that that is the whole counsel of God's that works on the creation. So if you're just looking at Joseph Smith's life. You can say well there was a gradual unveiling to him of the doctrine of God that progresses from one God to multiple gods, but if you look at the dates when these books were supposedly originally written the book of Abraham chronologically would have had to been written before the book of Moses and so here you have Abraham supposedly teaching a plurality of gods and then later when Moses does his account, he switches back to it. Just being God in Jesus, so it doesn't make sense that you have these two accounts of Genesis with different accounts of the creation story when chronologically that plural God's doctrine want to come first and then Moses would've scuttled and gone back to just God and Jesus know that's fascinating but you're absolutely correct. If Abraham, who precedes Moses is teaching a correct understanding of the creation account you have multiple gods that are involved in this creation and then Moses comes along later on. So who is telling the truth and which one are we supposed to believe because II think you make an excellent point here. If Abraham in the book of Abraham is telling us a correct account than the book of Moses would be inaccurate. How do Latter Day Saints get around that.

I mean, did you ever think of that when you were Latter Day Saints. Now I never thought of any of these things. It was only when we started to realize there was a problem with the book of Abraham as a genuine translation of the Egyptian papyrus that you start thinking through which came first, which count as authentic and it is the book of Abraham account authentic.

It changed our whole view of these things when you start with the Bible and then you see Joseph Smith making different accounts of the creation story which one is the believer supposed to take as the really authoritative one and it Becomes very confusing because the Mormons today would say the Abraham account is the bond that is most correct. The boastful fool in its understanding and yet the book of Moses supposed to be equally important, Turkey failed by Moses and he gives us a different account and I think the idea that both of them are found in Canon. I mean, Al found the pearl of great price. And yet, they contradict each other, that Christ is amazing a lot of Latter Day Saints have never even thought through that before. Right when you have this. This frees inspired revelation.

II want to go back to what I said earlier, it seems like Joseph Smith can say just about anything he wants as long as he attributes it to deity, and this is where he is getting his information. Most Latter Day Saints just accepted right and and what's frustrating is trying to communicate to a latter-day St. that there's a real huge problem here because if it's in fact coming from God. Why is God seemingly forgetting what he commanded earlier. Why is he changing his mind later on. That doesn't sound like the God of the Bible got in the Bible is pretty consistent in the things that is teaching but you have John Witzel uses that phrase inspired translation we see that same phrase used for the Joseph Smith translation again. No ancient text. Why are more Latter Day Saints thinking through this. It seems really to us so obvious, and maybe that's why I shouldn't even be using that as a as a guideline because I'm not in that same boat with them. I don't believe Joseph Smith is a true prophet and I guess what you believe is a prophet.

He can get away with just about anything and he seems like he dies, even when it comes to his plurality of wise oil. He was a prophet he could do whatever he wants very quickly the book of Abraham because as you mention the book of Abraham. We talked about the different creation accounts between it and the book of Moses, papyrus, or that Joseph Smith came across in 1835 by a guy by the name of Michael Chandler and he's going around the countryside showing off these mummies in such an Smith is intrigued by this.

The people taken off routinely by Michael Chandler's exhibit off of him and Joseph Smith is going to now translate these papyri that came with these mummies again. How is this translation done when it comes to the eventual book of Abraham well the heading on the book of Abraham states that it is a translation and it leads you to believe that this is a product of normal translation. Joseph bought actual proprietary and then claimed to translate them and yet we find that when the papyri are shown to scholars. They do not see anything in the actual text that correlates to what Joseph Smith said they translated to say.

So then the question comes up. What do we mean by translate and the Mormons today are on the horns of a dilemma because Joseph Smith's work does not line up with the text of the papyri so they can't just say he invented that so they have to some way redefine the word translate and so now they're saying well. It was by inspiration. It was a revelation that while he looked at the real proprietary he was inspired to see a different message then why are they still using the word translate in the heading. It is not a translation in any sense of the word.

There is nothing on the papyri that says anything about Abraham and he just comes up with his own version and yet they want to argue against the Bible that we only believe it.

As far as it's translated correctly implying that, historically, a true translation would read like Joseph Smith said. And yet when it comes to the work that we can test him on on the book of Abraham where we have the papyri he had and we have what he said was a translation and we now have what scholars say is the translation and what Joseph Smith said has no relationship to anything that a scholar would see on those papyri.

So in what sense will they affirm that is a translation while still castigating the Bible's authority by saying it's not a worthy translation and so it's like they get to pick and choose when they want to take the word literally for what it means their own scholars now are faced with the dilemma that the papyri read do not support anything Joseph Smith said they now concede that the book of Abraham is a product of revelation, then they shouldn't use the word translate, let me ask you this, when you were a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints were you taught that this is a literal rendering into English from the Egyptian text itself. Were you given the impression as a member of the church that it was an inspired translation as it's being sold today. Well I was taught that it was inspired but it was inspired in the sense of giving him the accurate translation of the text in front of him. So that was way inspiration was viewed in my growing up years we been talking with Sandra Tanner. She's a founder of Utah lighthouse ministry. Check out her website@utlm.org working to continue this theme in tomorrow's show. Looking at Joseph Smith's claim of being a translator. Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding his research ministry.

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