Engaging with Mormons (Corey Miller) Part 4

Teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism so glad to be with us for this additional viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM, but we've also had the pleasure of having our good friend Dr. Cory Miller be with us this week and Corey want to welcome you back to the show. It's been a pleasure and I'm glad were getting a little bit off course to talk about your background and what you're facing. As you work in our secular university. So, welcome back to the show. Thank you.

I think what we've been discussing is very important, but I wanted you to explain with your morning background how it kind of I guess you could say steers you into this direction. Some people might wonder or how did that happen. So let me let you explain that as a form of share because of the trauma that I faced coming out of Mormonism and now needing to know that something was true sent me into a period of skepticism where I had to explore deeply philosophy comparative religions and science and so forth.

And that sent me under this trajectory of light and theatrical passion for knowledge and going after the universities as a strategic place so I credit my background coming out of Mormonism with putting me on the platform where I met today by God's grace and sovereignty. That's fascinating because so many times we hear of those who leave Mormonism end up going off into nothingness, either agnosticism or you atheism baby out the bathwater. Yet we see that happen.

Far too many times very quickly. Why do you think that is well your already taught from being a child that the Bible is corrupt, but it doesn't matter. You have a living prophet, but once that living profit is pulled out from under you in terms of confidence but you no longer have that confidence in the Bible and emotionally you feel betrayed by religion. It's very difficult to trust after that period of time because Mormonism had captured you and taken your whole life. Let's talk about your book. This book is titled engaging with Mormons understanding their world sharing the good news.

And as I mentioned at the beginning of the week.

I was given the honor of writing a little blurb for this book, and one of the things I like about it. It is concise.

It's not meant to be in depth till right this is a series that the good book.com has put out in years just have to deal with the subject.

Mormonism but it's not meant to be exhaustive, but you give enough information about the doctrines of the LDS church but in a way, as I mentioned, that doesn't cause you to look down on the LDS people and for that I think you are to be commended because that is so so important, but in the preface of your book you talk about the bash or – methods as ways not to engage Latter Day Saints. Could you tell us what you mean by bash or – and explain why you don't recommend these methods bash what I mean by that is sometimes Christians try to take the biggest Bible I have being the Mormon know that not just with theological ping-pong back-and-forth but with the goal to kind of destroy the enemy, but the morning is not our enemy, and that – is kind of the opposite rather than engaging in conflict you seek to disengage you close your door. You shut your blinds you hide from the enemy, rather than seeing them as someone to be loved and present the truth both use don't care for the morning and both use art and effective to the Mormons out there nonsensical ways to get to go about conversation. I would totally agree with you.

I think having a Mormon delivered to my door is far better than a pizza any day door to a latter-day St. any time and it and it's an opportunity as you have illustrated that is wasted far too many times by Christians and we been trying to emphasize here in this showing in our ministry and that we set it many many times the time to prepare your game plan is not when they knock on the door but to be ready. I would you agree that people that are prepared to engage usually come off much better than those who are not prepared.

It's obvious, isn't it yes and put you in a better emotional state as well. You can actually have a spirited conversation and not get emotionally defensive, especially when much of our conversation can be nothing more than questions. I love ask my questions in fact most of the dialogue that I have a Latter Day Saints is just asking them one question after another, trying to bring them to a conclusion that we can discuss perhaps at the end of our conversation kind of put everything together and say okay let me see if I understand you correctly, and then just go through those points and then asking some more questions regarding why you might have a problem with some of their conclusions.

Cory, you said something interesting about Dr. and you said that you could find five different Mormons and you might get six different opinions and you say that even includes a leaders if that's the case, then how can a Christian ever engage a latter-day St. on important theological issues. The great question. What I meant by that statement on logic is that we should use logic, knowing that as I learned in the study of rhetoric or the art of persuasion persuasion comes in a triplet the log loss English word logic the ethos or ethic or competency and potlucks passion for some coming to them with iron class deductive syllogisms in an argument isn't going to do for some it might. And so with this.

We have two ears and one mouth for a reason so that we listen more and we follow the spirit and we try to get to know the person and personalize our encounter because truly, not every moment you talk to is going to be believing the things you think they might delete that is so true. We should never assume what a Mormon beliefs and people look at me, cross eyed when I say that I find in my experience in dealing with Latter Day Saints. It's not like when I'm dealing with. Let's say, a member of the watchtower Society or Jehovah's Witness. I find dealing with them. I almost expect them to all say the same things, but that's not really true when it comes to Latter Day Saints, as it now. We need to be good cultural and psychological diagnosticians, not just diagnosing the culture that we do in missiology to study admissions, but for the individual. What makes them tick.

Why are they more. What objections might they had to becoming a Christian you would get you to own it is emotional as it volitional is it intellectual. What is in the book you talk about Mormon culture and values give us a summary of what you mean by Mormon culture and the values that many Latter Day Saints have Eric years ago there was a movement I recall you taught to move away from the attribution of Mormonism is a cold and toward understanding it as a culture and I think that movement swung the pendulum to form the insight gained is it completely appropriate when thinking Misty logically. Mormonism isn't just about doctrine and theology, but about people together with their sociology and psychology. Many Mormons don't seem keen on theology and doctrine, but almost every Mormon is keen on the cultural values and beliefs. According families are forever solidarity and identity. It's very pragmatic. Get Skilling oriented. We need to be able to speak Mormon ease of people who know you talk, appreciate, fry sauce, Napoleon might ask about Jell-O but people who know you talk also recognize the curious fact that there are a disproportionate number of blondes can scan number one breast augmentation state top 10 bankruptcy state number one consumer of porn end and begin thinking about the external shell of appearances and secret sin scraps connected to an extreme performance mentality that really is probably joint to the Mormon view of salvation, so we need to understand Mormonism is a culture not just as a cult.

Cory, when you say that that argument that Mormonism is not a cult. It's a culture is in that kind of the either/or fallacy and that's why was it exactly it and that's an argument that I've been trying to raise here in the state of Utah look, why can it be both.

It seems to have characteristics that fall into both categories. Why do we have to say it's more than not the other. Why can't we just argue that it seems to show that it's both a culture and a cult as well. Were talking about theological cult here that it claims to represent true Christianity, while at the same time denying or distorting the basic teachings of the Christian faith. That was certainly put Mormonism into that category but I'm not denying that it's a culture as well.

Certainly it is Cory you wrote a chapter for our book that we put together in 2018 culture and the good news with Mormons in you describe the tactic in that book and you did it here to call the police lineup. I think it's an excellent tactic.

Can you tell us a little bit about the police lineup tactic how it works and how can a Christian uses to share the Christian faith.

I think the helpfulness of the illustration is that it brings the Mormon back to their founding story to the grove where Joseph Smith allegedly had this revelation of the appearance of heavenly father in Jesus and that time the way they tell the story is that there were so many different Christian sects, sectarian religions, he wasn't sure which one to join and so heavenly father said now don't join well were taking a Mormon back to the grove experience and were soon okay I'm not an investigator here Mormonism on the prospect, but I've been told that there are multiple Mormon sects. There've been 400 since Joseph Smith died in at least eight either in award size or more. And if I just consider the three of them in all of the fundamentalist the Salt Lake church that community of Christ and I lined them up almost like a police lineup and I asked which church is true of the one true churches which church is the one true one true church.

It gives them a real existential sense that they are all too familiar with, and they realize that there's got to be something wrong here with the testimony and my point is I I'm trying to tear down the overconfidence they have in the notion of testimony because that is not while it's not essential doctrine.

It's an essential of dialogue and so I want them to see that each of the other sex. Other than the Salt Lake one more and you're probably talking to our fault.

They believe their fault is it because that Mormon is lying, no food want to judge in this day and age when you don't want to be a judge or and so you say so, are they deceived. Yes, their distinct so their distinct, perhaps by lying spirit that's right okay how you know you're not the one that's deceived and the point to this is they will forever hopefully carry that illustrative experience with them. No matter how many more encounters. They have with her constantly bearing testimony, they will not be able to fall back on that psychological defense or offense in the same way ever again with Dr. Cory Miller. He's the author of the book engaging with Mormons. Now Cory, this book can be purchased through a website called the good book.calm and they can also get it on Amazon book. It's got a lot of information within its pages and we want to continue this conversation with Cory in tomorrow's show. As we continue looking at his book engaging with Mormons understanding their world sharing good news, thank you for listening you would like more information regarding his research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you'll join us again as we look at another viewpoint is sharing your faith with Latter Day Saints.

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