The Virgin Birth Part 1

When sharing your faith with the Latter Day Saints helps to know what their church is taught in several basic topics.

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And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teachers biblical concept of the virgin birth. Welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Aaron shuffle all of my colleague at MRM area were to be discussing some of the statements made by various Mormon leaders regarding the incarnation of Jesus will be like I could on the Temple Square quite a lot.

I usually take a break. I'm starting to take a break during the winter because it's get so stinking cold, but I remember last winter I went down to Temple Square where they have all these Christmas lights of its incredible it's beautiful it's largest.

So many people to come down there and we think, what a great opportunity to intersect people to Northgate do some evangelism and we got to a lot of conversations about the virgin birth and I because it was the Christmas season, I asked a lot of people what they thought about past Mormon teachings on this issue and it it might surprise you what Mormons have to say on this issue or what Mormon leaders had to say on this issue.

You might think Mormon celebrate Christmas. Like any good Christian denomination would rate this a doctrinal issue that broods of the Mormon people its historic issue that prevents more. Many Mormons from appreciating the Christian meaning of Christmas. It's an issue that prevents many Mormons from having a saving relationship with the real Jesus Christ it it's it's an inner interval part of the larger problem of Mormonism having a false Jesus said, let's ask ourselves, who is the Mormon Jesus in that manger.

How was he conceived and what kind of up selling it. It's important because if you have the wrong Jesus, you got you don't have salvation. You have the right gospel.

One of the most fundamental tenets of Christianity is that Jesus was born of a virgin. That's is it's an essential doctrine. If you deny that your teapot are you that that the Bible teaches that though she hadn't yet not yet had physical intercourse with any man speak to Mary. Mary yeah she had within her miraculously conceived Jesus, and she bore a son. Mormons insist that they believe in the virgin birth, yet many of them have described it in a way, far removed from what Christians have believed for two millennia. While individual Mormons are divided over this issue. To this date, the Mormon church has no unequivocal official position on whether the immortal heavenly father had sexual intercourse with his mortal spirit daughter Mary to conceive Jesus.

This is not to say that there have not been several Mormon leaders that have addressed this issue and use language that very much sounds like God who has a body of flesh and bones actually came down for a time and physically impregnated Mary right, we wouldn't even be talking about this issue. If Mormon leaders had not caused the problem that this is not that's a very good way of putting it. They did cause this problem because they have said things that certainly lead anybody reading those statements to that conclusion.

Mormon apostle Bruce McConkie.

His most explicit denial of the traditional virgin birth goes like this quote Christ was begotten by an immortal father by an immortal father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal father sets in Mormon doctrine, page 547 1966 edition, you might ask, how can Mormons who say this kind. This kind of thing say that Christ was born of a virgin is really important.

This is done by changing the definition of the word virgin the virgin quote quote Mary did not have sexual relations. They say with a mortal man, but instead she was impregnated by an immortal man, Bruce McConkie wrote our Lord is the only mortal person ever born to a virgin because he is the only person who ever had in immortal father is also from Mormon doctrine, page 822 but let me let me add to that, because he also says in the promised Messiah. On page 466.

He says for our present purposes.

Suffice it to say that our Lord was born of a virgin, which is fitting and proper, and also natural since the father of the child was an immortal being zone here we have a clear case of Bruce McConkie redefining a phrase that has been understood. A certain way historically. Now he's tweaking it in order to make Mormonism work when one considers that Mormonism teaches that every human born in earth as a literal spirit child of God have heavenly father. The concept that Jesus was conceived in a quote and quote natural manner becomes even more blasphemous. Why, because it means that the Jesus of Mormonism was conceived in an incestuous union between heavenly father and his spirit daughter Mary Mormons today are divided over this issue. While some deny that the traditional LDS concept of quote" virgin is anything different than the traditional Christian understanding others find it necessary that the just to say that the church takes no official position on the mechanics" of the conception of Christ, Robert Millet, this is like one of the best you know that he seen as one of the best unofficial spokesman for the for the Mormon religion.

Today's most academic spokesman and he seen a sick champion, even of what I would call progressive BYU Neil orthodoxies trying to take Mormon theology a little bit different will have much of a different direction than it is on leaders of taken it even he says, quote while Latter Day Saints clearly believe that Jesus is the son of God is the son of God the father. There is no authoritative doctrinal statement within Mormonism that explains how the conception of Jesus was accomplished and the reason he feels like he has to say something like that is because that such an issue, and in a few of his books.

He talks about being confronted. It's a strong work that went by adding an LDS woman at one of his events and she was so distraught that some non-Mormon Christians have shown her the evidence that past leaders had taught that God the father had natural sexual relations with Mary to conceive Jesus and Millet sort of what he thinks is a very pastoral sort of note taking the pressure off kind of responses to say while that's not the official doctrine of the church and somehow for a lot of Mormons today that just sort of solves the problem and that's what's frustrating to us because they do tend to hide behind the word official. As if that just absolves all the strange things your hearing. Our leaders say the Mormon church is based on this whole idea that they have God-given God inspired latter-day leaders who speak on behalf of God but yet when you quote these guys whenever they say something that is certainly off-the-wall as many of these leaders have all of a sudden will. That's not official, but yet I found and you probably found this to her that when you asked the Mormon will tell me do you believe it anyway will not have course so and Millet.

What's the big deal with this word official when Millet responded to that woman he didn't alleviate her concerns by repudiating the idea or by assuring her that that such an idea isn't true. He responded by saying that is not official so some discernment questions that everyone listening should put on their belt when a Mormon says that something taught isn't official. You need to follow that up with. What do you personally believe it because sometimes a Mormon will personally believe something, yet not feel publicly obligated sort of own up to it because is not a part of the clinical core official doctrine that let me ask you this, though, since you said that as I've asked that question many times.

But what if they say no when you say that if they if they if they say they don't believe it. If they don't believe that. Okay what you just brought up as I had this happen many times though say well that's not official doctrine but that's just his opinion right so now what you say okay will on the virgin birth issue multifaceted here diets I'd probe little deeper and say will do you think virgin birth, the term of the doctrinal term can acceptably encompass the idea that God the father was healed physically impregnated Mary and via intercourse. Secondly, I ask questions like this.

Would you would it bother you if you met another member who believed such a thing. And would it bother you if you found out that your own leaders have taught such a thing because I'm not really merely looking for the sort of no correct checkbox doctrinal answer I'm looking for the heartbeat, the pulse of the heart of the love for truth and if if it doesn't bother them at work to Mormons listening to this on the radio right now, wherever. If it doesn't bother you that your leaders and many of your members believe and have taught that God the father had sexual relations with Mary to conceive Jesus. It's kind of like when you go to the doctor's office and they can tap you knee and looking for some sort of weird light doesn't jump right that's a heart problem. That's a serious issue.

You gotta ask God for more sensitivity and more passion for and repentance over the issue of truth. You know what the honor of your church doesn't matter nearly as much as the honor of Jesus Christ, but we we do find a lot of times we do find a mixed bag, when it comes to Latter Day Saints and some will adamantly deny that that was ever teaching them. It's really odd is that when you show them the teaching then they'll say something like, oh, I guess we do believe it right, Emily. I will wait a minute you are so adamant that it couldn't be true. Your first emotion was all know that so off-the-wall that just can't be true, but now that I shown you, they actually taught it.

Now you have a profit that's one really good reason to sort of when it when they first respond respond with this more healthy conscience to sit on that for a moment and to really fit on that and say you know what it bother you if you found out that they taught that are why does that bother you or you seem very bothered by such a problem. I am to or incarnate.

Same thing with the Joseph Smith and polygamy look at renewal, you claim justice met that 34 wives, 11 of whom are married and living husbands. That's an awful anti-Mormon vicious lie will sit on that for a moment and say will, if such a thing were true, what implications would there be for you and your religion and also though if if the if a Mormon says no, he doesn't agree with it the way I often respond as will then would you agree that in with me that you think your leader spoke you responsibly because if you don't think the right and maybe you're right.

They are wrong. Would you admit to me that they spoke you responsibly.

I find that's rare for more than ever say yes to that question. I may know him better not to do that because once a lady member starts questioning or correcting the leadership above them. It's not that it doesn't happen. It happens a lot, but technically that's not the way priesthood authority works doesn't go up and what they're basically doing is correcting someone within the Mormon church that they have no authority to correct and if I was to join the Mormon church. I often asked Mormons.

This would I be obligated to believe what you were telling me right now or would I be more obligated to believe with the general authorities have taught it if you don't take usually if you don't take your leaders seriously wash exactly if you cannot take your leaders seriously, what makes you think that I should take the leader seriously. So when it comes to this issue of the virgin birth, or any other topic, then clearly the Mormon is not selling their religion very well when they're showing us that they don't even agree with what their leaders of said thank you for listening. If you would like more information regarding Amicus research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website at www.mrm.org you can request our free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you'll join us again as we look at another viewpoint is all of us in Mormonism research ministry and want to wish you and yours and Julia's Christmas season.

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