Saints Mountain Meadows Massacre Part 4

.1 examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect.

And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism welcomed this additional viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM Mountain Meadows massacre. Certainly a dark portion of the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints it's mentioned in the book St. snow unhallowed hand which covers the dates 1846 to 1893. This Took Pl. in September of 1857 and I have to admit, Eric.

The church has certainly spent a lot of pages discussing this event in Mormon history. And when you consider that many of the facts regarding the Mountain Meadows massacre were told by the perpetrators.

As I mentioned in yesterday's show.

A lot of the details were very confusing. There's a lot of details to this story. There's a lot of names involved in this story and it can easily get very confusing. But the fact is, the question comes down to this, did Brigham Young play an intricate part in the killing of over 120 immigrants coming from Arkansas to California, but traveling through Utah. There is no definitive answer. Remember years ago when the authors of the book massacre at Mountain Meadows were speaking at a Mormon history Association conference.

The question was asked about evidence being destroyed that could implicate people in the church. I believe it was Turley. I could be wrong on that, but I believe it was Richard Turley. He said they did come across evidence that showed that documents had been destroyed and if that's the case we may never really know what happened.

Now, I don't think that these historians that wrote this book that I just mentioned massacre at Mountain Meadows were going to implicate Brigham Young even if they found evidence that did so. I'm sorry folks, I'm just, that's my prejudice.

I admit that because if you did that, then you would have blood on the hands of a Mormon prophet and that would be problematic when it comes to priestess succession and Mormonism. But the book does bring out a lot of information. Much more so than I think most Mormons are even aware so I think this would be an eye-opening book to many Latter Day Saints but were talking about all the details that finally ended up in the massacre of these immigrants coming from Arkansas. The Fancher Baker party as we introduce them in yesterday show from the book but now were going to have to believe that What Took Pl. in September of 1857 September 11. To be specific, was the result of an altercation that Took Pl. in Cedar City between some of the immigrants and a Miller who was supposed to grind some grain for them and wanted a cow in exchange for his labors, and of course the immigrants were very insulted by that there were some words exchanged and we are led to believe that because of the insults that were given by some of the immigrants towards the locals that this is what led to the Mountain Meadows massacre. I have such a hard time believing that because let's look at it this way. Eric do you really think a group of devout Mormon men would slaughter over 120 innocent victims, including women and children on the orders of a man such as Isaac hate, and that's the story were supposed to believe in.

It talks about Isaac hate on page 259. This is where we begin today where it says that Isaac hate and others Cedar City leaders sent a message to William Dame, the commander of the district militia and the stake president in nearby Pero on Pier 1 is a town north of Cedar City seeking advice on what to do about the immigrants, though the vast majority of the company had caused no trouble and no one had physically harmed any of the residents. People in town were seething when the immigrants left some of them had even begun plotting revenge. So you're going to kill these people based on insults.

I just have a hard time with that. I just cannot believe that and I cannot believe that these devout Latter Day Saints are going to follow the words of Isaac hate, who really is, he's a local leader. He's really a nobody in the grand scheme of things of Mormonism. Why would you risk your life. Personally, I see that there was only one man who could protect them and that man was Brigham Young I would not be surprised at all if when George H Smith as we read about in the book and we read about him earlier when George Smith went down to these settlements and spoke about Brigham Young's order not to sell anybody any goods that he also delivered a message from Brigham Young if he did that will never know, basically saying that something needs to be done about these immigrants. Now here's what's interesting in the book blood of the prophets by Will Bagley. He says this on page 112 Brigham Young had unleashed the battleax of the Lord against immigrants passing through Utah Bishop Elias Hicks Blackburn explained to his congregation that afternoon, he quoted Brother Brigham and this is in quotations. The enemy is in our hands if we will do right" near box elder 25 Shoshone's had stampeded 600 cattle and horses leaving an immigrant company on foot not quoting again quoting Elias Hicks Blackburn, a bishop Brigham Young has held the Indians back for 10 years pass, but shall do it no longer the bishop thundered. As soon as this word went out they have commenced upon our enemies, and this is the smoking gun that will Bagley thinks implicates them young because in the book he says as the Fancher party struggled southward. This would be Alexander Fancher and John T Baker. They are the head of this wagon train that's heading through Utah at this time. Bagley says as the Fancher party struggled southward its fate was being sealed in a meeting in great Salt Lake City between the leaders of the southern pie you bands and the man they called big gum Brigham Young. He writes on page 113.

Bagley says as the Fancher train made camp some 70 miles north of Mountain Meadows on the evening of September 1, 1857. Young met for about an hour with the southern chiefs to implement his plan to stop overland immigration on the southern road describing his meeting with the pie Utz in his journal.

Young claimed he could quote hardly restrain them from exterminating the Americans." In truth, that Tuesday night young encourage the Indians to seize the stock of the wagon trains on the southern route that's were the Fancher Baker train was going.

Juanita Brooks is the author of the book the Mountain Meadows massacre is one of the first definitive books on the subject and remember Juanita Brooks did not have a lot of the information that is available to scholars today, but Juanita Brooks Bagley says recognize the importance of this crucial meeting, but could only speculate on its purpose. Historians have long assumed no detailed eyewitness account of the interview existed, but the diary of Young's brother-in-law and interpreter Dimmick Huntington has survived in the LDS archives since 1859. Now Dimmick Huntington folks was the brother of Zion, a Huntington, one of Brigham Young plural wives Bagley rights at the bottom of page 113 describing the September 1 parlay Huntington wrote. I gave them all the cattle that had gone to Cal that stands for California. The South route. Bagley goes on to say, the language of Huntington's critical journal entry is archaic, but its meaning is clear, even a devout Mormon historian has identified the high in this entry as Brigham young it was Brigham Young who said I gave them all the cattle that had gone to California in the South route. Now the Mormon historian is Lawrence G Coates. He was a professor at BYU and Rexburg and he is the one that confirmed. According to Bagley that the I in this entry was Brigham Young, so it would seem that Brigham Young is giving permission to the Indians to attack this training to steal their cattle. If so, how can you say Brigham Young was not involved in this at all. How could you say that he has clean hands when it seems like he's putting things in place that would eventually lead to the demise of all these immigrants know you been using three books during the series to help us understand better what the saints know on how hand is talking about the one that you're talking about now.

Will Bagley's book is not an official church book like the one that the scholars wrote would you recommend people picking that book up just to be able to see what Bagley has to say.

If they're more interested in this topic. Yes, and this is why we know that the book that was put out by the three Mormon historians that would be Walker Turley and Leonard title massacre at Mountain Meadows is going to be.

You would think protective of the church. Now they might argue with me on that.

But I'm again I'm admitting that's my prejudice here. Bagley is more of the hostile witness Bagley firmly believes that Brigham Young was involved in actually gave the order to have the immigrants attacked. It's hard to prove this because we know that a lot of the evidence has been destroyed. It will probably never know and we cannot forget folks, that much of what we have known about the Mountain Meadows.

Up until recent years was the story that was told by the very people who were involved in the crime.

The Mormons were telling the story. The Mormons were making up all the stories against the immigrants that there was someone in the train that had the gun that killed Joseph Smith. We know that's not true, but these were some of the stories that were invented in order to protect the Mormons that were involved. Now this book, saints says that the blame had to fall on the pie you Indians. It says that on page 260.

The book does admit that Mormons were involved in the attacks. Now that's something that was not a part of the early Mormon history, although I'm sure that there were many people who thought that was how it really happened. I'm sure the story that was given by the Mormons during this time.

Was not bought by a lot of people.

I'm sure a lot of people thought that the Mormons were in fact involved in the attack, perhaps with the Indians but not just the Indians but the Mormons were putting the blame on the Indians and page 260 in the book saints even admits that it does mention John D. Lee, who ultimately becomes the scapegoat in tomorrow's show I want to talk a little bit about what happened in the actual massacre that ultimately ended on September 11, 1857 date might sound a little familiar.

September 11 will the Mountain Meadows massacre.

You could say folks was America's original 911, but what's really sad is even though Mormons were involved the Mormon church to this day has never apologized for that involvement. In fact, what one of their leaders Henry B Irene actually said on the hundred and 50th anniversary of that tragic event, he said basically that the church regretted it.

But the church made it very clear that it was not an apology. Thank you for listening you would like more information is research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research.

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