Saints Mormon Reformation Part 2

.1 Mormonism program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism. Does the Bible teach that you can be forgiven of your sins. If you were to shed your own blood. Welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism.

I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM yesterday. We began looking at chapter 17.

In the book Saints.

No unhallowed hand. This is the second volume a month for two more to be released in years to come. That is going to give us an account of the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Chapter 17 deals with the subject of what is called the Mormon Reformation. So today we begin looking at page 245 at the top of the page and there's a lot of information in these three paragraphs Eric I think it's important that we read all of it just to get an idea of what is being said to the latter-day Satan who is reading this history book it says by the spring of 1857, Brigham Young and other church leaders were pleased with the saints Reformation and reinstituted the sacrament throughout the church. Brigham said time and again that the saints were a God blessed people.

Now for the benefit of our listeners.

Perhaps we need to give a concise definition of what this Mormon Reformation really is about and what it entails. I don't think the book gives us enough information that explains this clearly.

We do know that there were some members were being lax in their faith, but it doesn't really give us a concise definition of what the Reformation is, however, there was a history book that was written several years ago called the story of the Latter Day Saints and in that book. The authors give us a concise definition. I think it's important that we read that so we all understand what is being spoken of, when it talks about the saints Reformation and just to note that this was written by James B. Allen and Glenn M.

Leonard. They are LDS historians and it was published in 1976 so that the first edition there has been a second edition.

Since then, but this is coming from the first edition and is printed by the church and this is what it says on page 279. Perhaps the most dramatic religious event of the 1850s was the Reformation of 1856 and 57 sparked by the fiery preaching of Elder Jedediah M. Grant, a member of the first presidency. The reform was an effort to persuade the saints to renew their dedication to righteous living. The leaders deeply concerned about what appear to be signs of a moral and spiritual decay traveled around the territory preaching repentance with unprecedented fervor members were called upon to repent and rededicate themselves fully to the work of the Lord, and to seal this rededication with three baptism so as we mentioned yesterday, this was a call on members of the church, you felt that they had been lax in their duties to the Lord asked how they would obviously understand this and so they would be re-engaging in doing works that they had not done before.

One of those works that had to be relieved and would be baptism because in Mormonism. They do believe in baptismal regeneration, in other words, baptism is important if you hope to have the forgiveness of your sins, but this preaching goes a little bit past that maybe not even a little bit. It goes pretty far past that this is what were going to read about today so this is what it's talking about in the first paragraph on page 245 of the book Saints goes on. What is it say yes some problems had arisen during the Reformation leaders had spoken harshly of apostates and locals who were not members of the church feeling intimidated some people left the territory, bishops, home missionaries and church members also clashed sometimes when frequent home visits and public confessions proved embarrassing, disruptive or intimidating with time, church leaders and began encouraging that interviews and confessions be done in private. The question that comes to my mind as you read that paragraph Eric is where it says leaders had spoken harshly of apostates and locals who were not members of the church feeling intimidated some people left the territory. What would you be hearing that you would feel so intimidated that you would pack up your family and move away from that area. If I had a neighbor that I knew was listening to some preacher telling them how they need to repent and get right with God. I don't know if that would have that kind of effect on me. You think you would have that kind of an effect on you know, I don't think so. What was it, then that was intimidating. These people could it be the preaching of violence being done against you if you did not conform to what the church was telling you at that particular time. This book doesn't say that, but you have to ask yourself what would intimidate you in such a way that would cause you to leave it says feeling intimidated some people left the territory. Obviously they are hearing something even as nonmembers that it appears is frightening them to the point that they don't want to hang around this place any longer and so they are going to go through the difficulty of packing up their family and their livelihood and getting out of this area. I think that's a fair question to ask, what was it what was going to give us a little bit of a hint in this book as we go on the next paragraph reads church leaders typically use moderate and uplifting language in their sermons to encourage the Saints to do better. The book of Mormon provided clear examples of how forceful preaching could inspire people to reform, however, and church leaders had often use extreme language that winter to call the saints to repentance.

At times, Brigham and others had even drawn on Old Testament Scriptures to teach that certain grievous sins could be forgiven only through the shedding of the sinner's blood.

At the end of that paragraph. There's an endnote number 15 out when I saw that I thought all this should be good. I can go back to endnote 15 and no doubt it's going to give me a list of some of those Old Testament scriptures that teach that certain grievous sins could be forgiven only through the shedding of the sinner's blood will. Needless to say how disappointed I was to find that there was no such list.

There, there can't be any such lists there because there are no Old Testament scriptures that teach that certain grievous sins could be forgiven only through the shedding of the sinners blood now in the Old Testament you had the sacrifice of animals but you're not going to find anywhere in the Old Testament that supports that sentence right there sins could be forgiven only through the shedding of the sinners blood and when you do study the Old Testament and you do see what the animals before they put all of their sins upon those animals and what does the book of Hebrews say it says that Jesus fulfilled all of the sacrificial animals and so now all the sins are put on to him.

He is the perfect sacrifice so you're right, though nowhere in the Bible, especially the Old Testament does it say that a person had to get his own blood in order to receive forgiveness of sins. That's blasphemous will but look at it this way. Eric when it says here that certain grievous sins could be forgiven only to the shedding of the sinners blood and it mentions that some of those that who were intimidated were not only apostates, those who were members of the LDS church would left the church, but also those who were not members at all. Perhaps never even join is this what they're hearing because if I heard that the people I lived among being told that the only way you could be forgiven was if the sinners blood be shed, and I knew myself to be a sinner in the eyes of those people. I live among that now might make me a little bit nervous and I'm not sure I can trust the people that I live among. At this point if they think that they're going to do me some favor by shedding my blood.

In order for me to be forgiven. We need to understand to that. While Brigham Young was a big proponent of blood atonement. It is not something that he or Jedediah M. Grant got on their own. This goes all the way back to Joseph Smith and this is found in history of the church, volume 5, page 296 it says in debate, George J Smith said imprisonment was better than hanging. I replied I was opposed to hanging info. Even if a man kill another.

I will shoot him or cut off his head spill his blood on the ground and let the smoke there Rob ascend up to God and if ever I ever have the privilege of making a law on that subject, I will have it so Bill, there are several phrases in their you going to be hearing in these next few shows were going to do when we cite from Brigham Young and Jedediah M.

Grant, including the idea of spilling blood on the ground and also let the smoke thereof ascend up to God's of these guys are repeating what the founder of Mormonism originally taught that. Could you say that perhaps a verse like without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. The Bible does say that the argument there, but you can see what happens when a verse is ripped from its context, and in this case, we find that will the blood that needs to be shed for the remission of sins is not the blood of the animal sacrifice. Perhaps not even in this case the blood of the great sacrifice Jesus Christ that shed his blood for the church. No when they say the shedding of the sinners blood they've gone beyond what that verse is saying even though that verse may have been cited on a number of occasions there taking it out of context.

And yet you have a people here who were trusting men like Jedediah M grant there trusting men like Brigham Young to lead them in all truth. Why, because they been told that these men are called by God to give them God's gospel truth and they're not even allowed technically to question what's being told to them. Even in today's context, modern Latter Day Saints are supposed to believe what their leaders tell them they have no right to really contradict what they have to say, they naturally assume that they're going to be telling them the truth bill. The next paragraph on page 245 does not point to Smith as being the origination of this idea, but rather it points to Christians listen to what it says. Such teachings hark back to the hellfire and brimstone language. A Protestant revival preachers who tried to frighten sinners into reform and then it goes on and says this Brigham understood that he sometimes let his fiery sermons go too far and he did not intend for people to be put to death for their sins. You think that's a truthful statement. No, not at all not at all in. This is why folks because in tomorrow's show were going to read to use some of the statements made by men such as Jedediah M grant and Brigham Young and even some more modern leaders of time permits and there's no way that you would've understood this to merely mean well, it's hyperbole, they're just going a little over-the-top in their language.

They really don't mean that I can't imagine how any Latter Day Saints listening to some of the statements that we are going to look at tomorrow could walk away and shrugged her shoulders and you will am sure glad Brigham really didn't mean what he said you're knocking to get that understanding at all.

When you hear these comments to say. Well that hark back to hellfire and brimstone language of Protestant revival preachers. I can't recall one Protestant revival preacher. Maybe they're thinking of even someone like Jonathan Edwards sinners in the hand of an angry God. Certainly they talked about the just punishment of sinners who refuse the gift of Jesus Christ. But there's nowhere in any of those teachings of these Protestant revival preachers as it says that taught anything like what Brigham Young and others taught during the Mormon Reformation. Thank you for listening. If you would like more information regarding his research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is