Christmas Book Citations Jesus the Christ Part 5

Point is to examine the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism hoping you're having a very pleasant Friday. Welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host Bill McKeever Felder director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM we continue looking at the book Jesus the Christ written by Mormon apostle James Talmage. It was one of many books that were given away as Christmas gifts. Between the years 1981 in 2017 Eric before we get into our topic today.

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At this time. This week we were talking about the and T mortal state how all of us lived as the children of heavenly father. Spirit children of heavenly father and heavenly mother, and that same concept also refers to the Mormon Jesus as well. In his book Jesus the Christ.

James Talmage talks about this on pages 38 and 39. What is he say Eric during that NT mortal. There was essential differences between the father and the son, and that the farmer had already passed through the experiences of mortal life, including death, and resurrection, and was therefore a being possessed of a perfect immortalized body of flesh and bones, while the sun was yet on embodied through his death and subsequent resurrection, Jesus the Christ is today a being like unto the father in all essential characteristics I want to focus on his freeze while the sun was yet on embodied why does that become important well if you ever talk to a latter-day St., and you started discussing the person of God the father in Mormonism, they will tell you that Joseph Smith taught that God has a body of flesh and bones is tangible is man's and that's basically what James Talmage is saying here what they will often do is take you back to Genesis 126 and 27 that says then God said, let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.

Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. And then verse 27 says so God created man in his own image in the image of God he created him male and female he created them. The Mormon will say see that phrase let us make man in our image will look at our image. We have a body of flesh and bones as Joseph Smith taught. So this means that God the father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man but as we've said many times on this show have them carefully read verses 26 and 27 again and notice it says let us make man in our image will if you're going to say that our image means that God the father has a body of flesh and bones. How do you explain what James Talmage says here on pages 38 and 39 when he says that the sun in that time. In the preexistence state. The NT mortal.

Was yet on embodied so if it's let us make man in our image, and yet Jesus doesn't have a body. How do you assume that that's referring to a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's as Joseph Smith later taught. I don't think using Genesis 126 to try and prove that God has a body of flesh and bones is a good verse to use, especially in the context of Mormonism, which seems to contradict what those verses are implying now, let's talk about this statement also because when it says that there are essential differences between the father and the son, and that the former had already passed through the experiences of mortal life, including death and resurrection, and was therefore of being possessed of a perfect immortalized body of flesh and bones. Remember, according to Mormonism.

Jesus somehow became a God in the preexistence before his mortal incarnation, but yet the father as James Talmage points out here had to go through the experiences of mortal life, including death and resurrection. The question needs to be asked will why did heavenly father as a mortal have to die when the Bible tells us the wages of sin is death, it would seem to imply that the mortal heavenly father before he becomes God died as a result of his sin.

But yet this same God of Mormonism is telling his children that in order to get back into his presence. They have to keep all of the commandments, and repent of all their sins and doesn't sound like he did that while he was living in his mortality. Isn't that a bit hypocritical for him to ask out of his offspring. What's also not fair is that in Mormonism Jesus attain perfection in the preexistence were not told exactly how that came to be. But then he came to this earth as a perfect being.

Why did the rest of us have to be born into sin and then have to do the impossible. Keeping all the commandments when Jesus already had it figured out before he came here, you raise a good point. There is just an inconsistency in how everything operates in Mormonism. It's almost like Joseph Smith or maybe one of his successors realized. Oh wait a minute, this doesn't work, we have to come up with something to explain this glitch in our theology will let's go back to what Talmage said regarding God the father having to go through the experiences of mortal life in order to prove himself to be qualified to become a God in another book that Talmage wrote a book that were going to be looking at on Monday a book titled the articles of faith. He has this interesting statement on page 430 where he discusses how God came to be God and how mankind must follow in those footsteps, not the footsteps of Jesus. He wrote we believe in a God who is himself progressive whose Majesty's intelligence is perfection consistent eternal advancement, a being who has attained his exalted state by a path which now his children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sex in the face of direct charges of blasphemy.

The church proclaims eternal truth as man is God once was, as God is man may be.

I find it fascinating. Eric where he says in the face of direct charges of blasphemy. Why would he make a statement like that because this idea regarding the God of Mormonism should be considered blasphemous to us who believe in a God who was always God, a God who was always perfect. By nature does not do anything wrong. Certainly would not sin but yet that is the God of James Talmage when he talks about this God who had to go through this earthly existence. Notice what it says here in the articles of faith, another book written by Talmage and also given away as a Christmas gift. We believe in a God who is himself progressive whose Majesty is intelligence whose perfection consist in eternal advancement.

We must wonder where is he going to advance it doesn't make any sense but yet these are words that are being used by James Talmage which raises a huge?

As to who is he talking about and can this possibly be the God of historic Christianity. I doubt it.

But he goes on to say, a being who his exalted state by a path which now his children are permitted to follow. Who are those children in Mormonism that would be you.

That would be me.

That would be all of humankind, both male and female Mormonism teaches that we are all the literal offspring of God the father. But notice when he says a being who attain his exalted state. That means he wasn't always in that exalted state if he had to attain it.

He didn't have it at some time.

This is what Talmage is referring to. On pages 38 and 39 of Jesus the Christ that he had to go through the experiences of mortal life just like we are going through the experiences of mortal life and as God had to prove himself worthy in order to become the God he is today, so it is with all of humankind.

We must prove ourselves worthy. If we hope to achieve the godhood that heavenly father has right now. This contradicts certainly the Bible, Psalm 90, verse two, from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Malachi 36 says that God is not changed. It even contradicts the book of Mormon. We have Moron I 818 and Mormon 919 and many other passages which very clearly say that God does not change, and for us as Christians. This is very blasphemous. If your Latter Day Saints.

You need to understand when we look at what Talmage says when we look at what Mormonism teaches.

We are offended in a doctrinal way and is fascinating when he uses that phrase in the face of direct charges of blasphemy. The church proclaims the eternal truth. Quoting from the Lorenzo Snow couplet as man is God once was, as God is man may be well, what is man right now. What is the one signature of all of humankind. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Just put your imagination to the test.

If God was once like us and you see how horrible man can behave ask yourself, what was it that the Mormon God could have done while he was in his mortality. Why he could've been a pedophile for all we know he could have done all sorts of horrible terrible acts during his mortality but yet somehow he became God. No, I'm not saying that God can't forgive all of those horrible acts he most certainly can, but when this God demands perfection of his offspring in order to get back into his presence.

I think we have a bit of a hypocritical problem here no more than might say well he's not asking perfection.

What is it mean to you as a Latter Day Saints if you're one who can live all the commandments and repent of your sins, never to commit them again. Most Latter Day Saints. I've talked to look at that as being a standard of perfection, so call it what you will. That's what the Mormon God is asking of you. But as we see here. If the God of Mormonism had to go through the experiences of mortal life and we have to go through. That's on that same path. What is it talking about here. Obviously we have to meet a standard that God the father met in order to become the God that he would become when that happened we don't know, but that's the path all Latter Day Saints are supposed to follow. Thank you for listening. If you would like more information regarding his research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is