Wolves Not Sparing the Flock (Part 1)

What happens when an evangelical church demonstrates cultlike activity.

How can you protect those you love, say transforming something like city.messengers transform themselves as messengers of right so what I'm me can transform a message appears to be like appears to be good to pull us away from God. Why does Solomon at the dawn of his writing to God to give your servant a discerning heart that I can tell the difference between good and evil. You have to remember it was the good side of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that he was drawn to, not the evil side listen blatant satanic rock concerts, orgies, other things like that blatant evil is not what is going to deceive for possible, even the elect. Jesus, that in the last day. It is a form of good it is rebellious to God that is going to deceive, if possible, even the elect. That is why we must have a vibrant relationship with the word of God with the spirit of God and being really plugged into our local churches. This times radio with Jim Marco. Jim talks with a couple lost her daughter seven years ago to a ministry counseled her not to have contact with her parents day we discover what happened and how it has affected these parents who now is Joe Martel.

Welcome to the program. You know, we look at news views truths from a decidedly biblical perspective, our here today.

Some of you are our parents there. Hope you can really listen up because today I talked to parents who lost a child to Bethel church Redding California and yes I am intentionally using the word lost. Caitlin was a very normal young woman, the one who experienced some serious health issues. Certainly as a teenager and in a 2011, Dirk and Joan noticed that Caitlin's phone bill was $300 more than usual with hundreds of texts and calls from people in California. Katie told her parents that she had to go to Bethel school of supernatural ministry in Redding, California and Bethel just a little insight. They suggest that the spirit of the Lord has actually left Jerusalem and had come to Redding California on Caitlin was told that she had to move out there, or she would miss the true move of God. Now those communicating with her from Bethel suggested that Caitlin's parents were controlling her that she needed to get away from them. This is a heart-wrenching story that actually likely isn't finished yet because the Caitlin is still a strange and her parents who are in studio with me for this hour feel that the things are going to be made right eventually. So Joan and Dirk, thank you for coming telling us your story.

Joan starts with Katie's illness as a teenager and we don't have to go into details but as a teenager, she was seriously ill she was.

She had a very simple surgery when she was 12 and there were some complications. By the time she she turned 13 on 4 July I started taking her to specialists all over the city shoot. I took her to the best infectious disease specialists in the Twin Cities and she said you have to take her home and put her to bed.

She's got the highest titers of the disease she'd ever seen. But the only drug that could help her would damage her liver.

She said she's too young for that you need to just take her home. It did go away when she was 19. Was it supernaturally taken away while we believe the Lord touched her. We were by December of that year she was her health was deteriorating and we ended up at the mail and she was on almost $1000 with prescriptions a month to make her blood circulate to handle other issues with her health and we were making frequent trips there. We actually sent fluid specimens to Europe to a clinic that which I did get better when she was 19, we fail God healed her untouched. Are you okay with this is going to play in the story.

That's why rising and know that the details are important, but the fact that she was ill.

Bethel church was going to tap into this fact that she had been ill about the time that Bethel started contacting Katie. She started acting strangely. How how to explain it except that she started almost act like she was afraid of us and we had no idea why she never acted that way before, but that last summer before she left her behavior changed radically and we couldn't figure out what was going on. Then we got our phone bill in August and we knew that there was way too much influence from these people and we drove to Indiana to meet with them. Katie and her little sister were there helping these people with their ministry and we had no idea that they we thought they went to a conservative church in Texas. That's what we thought we knew about them and we found out then that they were involved with Bethel. We talked to them. We asked him you know what was going on and that's when they told us we needed to move to Bethel because what they wanted you to move to Bethel as a family.

Yeah they thought Dirk should sell we should sell all we have and moved to to Bethel to Redding because the spirit of the Lord was there and nowhere else somewhere else and Dirk. He owns a family business that's been in existence since 1926. It wasn't something that we were prepared to do and then they proceeded to tell us that we were really making a big mistake not listening to them that we were missing out on God. Okay, so then did Katie just get on a plane and and head out there. Actually she was working with them every for a week every month with meetings that they were having for young girls 12 to 15 that they presented as in Redding or know they were all over the country.

Okay, they were in Indianapolis and in Sacramento and a couple other places, and they actually she went to Singapore with them for three weeks. The year before over Thanksgiving and when she came home from Singapore. She was starting to act different and she had a little bit of school left to finish so she finished it and that's when they really turn the screws on you graduated. You have to come to Bethel to please God, what are you thinking at this time. While we started the research. What is this Bethel place is what's going on there and became aware that their whole focus was miracles, miracles, healing feelings, and it seemed like were trying to touch business music. That's right, and art and anything that you would think would be a vocational discipline, they would say we have the best. We did confront this couple and said what about this.

What about Matthew 12 remark 12 word says no evil generation seeks after a sign, and his response was well. Our pastor wants all we can get our investor wants every miracle possible. Okay, that pastor is Pastor Bill Johnson and folks honestly were not attacking the Bethel folks are Pastor Johnson in this hour, but we are trying to sound a warning that same situation could happen to you. If, in fact, your family gets enthralled with what's happening in Bethel church, Redding, California. I've actually had communication with them because of reference them in previous programming and they reached out to me and I reached back to them and I know I'm going to hear from them here in the coming days as well and I will communicate with them now Joan or Dirk liver cares answer this, they were going to tap into the fact that Katie had been ill and they're actually going to sort of threaten her eyes as far as I can understand and say if you don't come here and plan to do it. We tell you to do. You might get sick again. Or perhaps you're going to get sick again. Is that what they told her they prophesied over they prophesied and said that God would make her sick again if she did not go away them to Bethel and that bad things would happen to her family and we have a big family and we are very close and I believe they meet her on Marder K you know she had to go even though she didn't want to to protect us all and they told you know she had to prove that she loved Jesus more than she loved us. By the way you're listening to understanding the times radio and Jan Markel. I have in this video with me. Dirk and Joan Miller and they approach them several couple months ago happen to be visiting a church in the Eden Prairie, Minnesota area. They came up to me and we started talking. I started hearing little bit about Caitlin's experience or the ordeal they been through and decided that after I get more information that Caitlin's story and Dirk and Joan story should be heard so that parents who could be going through the same thing or will go through the same thing can have sort of a warning that there are some Pied Piper's out there that they may sound spiritual they may sound good. You may even be listening to some of them on YouTube.

So wherever Christian radio television, they may not be the most soundly since my conclusion as it concerns Pastor Bill Johnson of Bethel church Redding California and you folks saw Caitlin after she'd been there for a short time and you said to me that once she got to Bethel she almost became a robot that she became stiff. She didn't have much effect in her countenance at all and what do you think happened when she got there Dirk, do you have any idea will you know.

At first she said were she was going to communicate with us weekly. Soon she said you're crossing my boundaries and then next few weeks later I got an email at work say and I can't have any more contact with you and this was kind of out of the blue. We know from doing research and action for going out there that they strongly insist anybody that has a problem or perceived problem go through their church counseling when they call it social filament counseling is correct and as we understand it now from researching it.

It's a form of of recovered memory counseling or regression counseling. Some people call it.

It's been around for years and years, but they've repackage it that Bethel and by putting on nice Greek word so-so on a train that means I've been delivered been restored been healed, been saved, let me play a little clip of Bethel in their own words talking about this so-so counseling. We have a lot of questions about exactly what so-so is. So I want to explain not only what the word he has, but also what we do and what we don't do in the context of the process or the sessions that we sit down with so-so is a Greek word that is used to hundred 10 times in the New Testament it actually means to be made whole, that the translators translated it, saved, translated, healed, and translated it delivered so the so-so ministry is a place where we go and find the wounds and lies find the roots of the issues that stop people from being able to deal with life being able to deal with issues that are coming into their life. Plus we also go in and help you find develop and heal the reasons why you don't have a good relationship with each members of the Godhead.

So-so is not counseling. It is not a prayer ministry is a team of people going in helping you make that connection with the Godhead and thus have a place to go to deal with all the issues and crisis that will happen with you is also a deliverance ministry. Because once you go in and heal the wounds and lies. Seal the reasons why the demonic thinks it has legal access demonic has to leave and that's in essence what deliverance says so that's what so-so is that trade off their website to be made whole. You have any contention with the concept of having to be made whole and yet this is really what a probably programmed Caitlin correct. This is how they got at her mind and got in her innermost being so-so counseling. We believe that's absolutely at. We heard through a young man that had gone to Northwestern graduated and went out there that if you want to work with music ministry have to go through so-so counseling and if you don't have anything to share.

That's wrong with you or your life. They'll make something up. He felt they were brainwashing him against his parents and fled and came home but you know this was a kid that I graduated from college and Katie was young, emotionally because of how she suffered her entire adolescence and when we spoke with one of the women out there who is a professional counselor. I said to her, I don't think you understand how sick she was.

Every doctor we've spoken with has told us when kids are that sick, and in that much pain they get stuck emotionally. She had some years of growing up to do emotionally. And I said just said that she was a lot younger than she really was and she said oh no she was a lot younger than that. Even that was her perception. Well here are some of the terms you use to me one when I was kinda quizzing you about all of this you suggested that she was like a robot is when you show us she had already out there just like a robot you said it appeared as though she was hypnotized.

It was actually she was like that day she left she called us we were on an anniversary getaway September 10, 2011 and we got a phone call at 10 something at night and she said God told me to go to Redding and I bought a plane ticket and we said wait a minute. She said I'm leaving at 6 o'clock on Monday morning so that was late on Saturday we got in the car and started driving. Got home early Sunday. She was literally stiff as a board it was. It was frightening appearance. Yeah, it apparently it let let the mind control had already started. All yes yeah absolutely I want to talk a little bit about the attack out there because their Legion. We've already referenced so-so.

I think this so-so counseling which is related to see if I stick counseling which I'm not convinced is sound form of counseling. There are churches all around the country that employ this kind of of counseling and in the little clip you heard them say that the word means to be made whole. That sounds wonderful, who doesn't want to be made whole and that the demonic has to leave whoever there practicing this on the demonic has to leave. They say it is a deliverance ministry because that that's how they did the demand demonic has to leave. And yet this is kind of what said everything in gear and I and I haven't been out to Redding but I'm just assuming that every student goes through so-so counseling you know if that be be the case, we heard that the kids that wanted to work with music have had to go through that sales. I don't know about the rest of Katie did end up working with their Bethel music.org when we went to try to meet with the pastors out there to see if somebody wouldn't visit with us about this problem and that didn't wait and see good fruit in their school's lease and are on our own daughter and we are appealing to them.

Aren't you about family and building up families really don't want to talk about that fact. These that we can help you.

Sweet is that what we'd like to talk to one of the head pastors been well they were not very helpful with that and they said you should go talk to her counseling department. So I called the counseling department and they said well you'll have to come in and you will be counseled separately said no we are where a husband and wife were together were one that's only way would come in and talk with you is the note you have come in separately and said well okay will move on. We tried to explain what was happening with Caitlin and they just didn't know what to do with us.

They said you left to Dr. Pastor.

Well, it was the pastor who told us to go talk to them and nobody really seemed to care until we talk to Bill Johnson personally and I want to ask you what happened when you talk to Bill Johnson personally and will do that and folks. The other thing I want to do when I get back, but very short break as I want talk to us for a little bit, at least in the next segment at some point and excitement about called the new apostolic Reformation or NAR is his church is a part of the new apostolic Reformation also want to clarify that this program is not an attack on all Pentecostals are charismatics, only those that are going to extremes such as what you're hearing because you're going to hear a lot more in the minutes that we have left what Bethel and Redding California is doing and I think most my listeners would consider including a lot of my Assemblies of God listeners would consider it to be extremist. I'll be back in a couple minutes don't go away this from Bill Johnson was born you know Jesus was born again, she they teach that Jesus died spiritually and he'll cease to be God and had to be born again, he had to get saved difference.

This is heresy.

This is heresy. If there was ever a time in which Jesus was not God if he cease to be God difference in Jesus never was God.

To begin with. Hope you're challenged by what you heard want to sure of the story with others. Please call us for CD number two. Order 763-559-4444.

Remember our full understanding times conference will be held at Grace Church Curry on September 29. This year's conference is a ticketed event you learn all about ordering your tickets and this year's conference. When you log to all of three views.org as we go to the summer months.

We hope you will still consider making a financial gift to this listener supported broadcast or coast-to-coast ministry requires many people helping us to underwrite our regular cost tax-deductible gifts are welcome right to all three ministries.

Box 1452, Maple Grove, MN 5531. Understanding the times 2018 is not that far away. Saturday, September 29 8:30 AM to 5 PM. Please note the earlier starting time. There are still tickets available for 10, 15 and $20.

Visit our website. All of three views.org go to conferences or contact brushfire.com will give you an 800 number as soon as you get a pencil and paper. Don't miss the like-minded fellowship as well is our cutting edge speakers include Pastor Jack Hibbs, Pastor JD Frerotte, Pastor Billy Krohn, Eric Barger and Amir surf the headlines today are a harbinger of his return will unpack that. Saturday, September 29. Learn to be a watchman on the wall. We live in challenging times that things aren't falling apart or falling into place.

Learn how it understanding the times 2018 for tickets order online or call brushfire 88833853388883385338. The conference will be live streamed on the website. All of three views.org no cost. This is why James comes along in the New Testament, and James makes the statement, he said to not be saved on Wednesday the get is only one problem with the subject. It's deceiving the person who's this, he believes with all the heart the right when in reality the wrong that's. James is saying you can live a life deception for the testimony of a couple walks their daughter through the church in California was told not to contact her parents, church, convinced her that her parents were abusing her for more of the story back to John Marco because I can barely believe what I will listen to Christian music a couple weeks ago on this is not the first on this is happened to Christian church organization here in Jerusalem. I don't just display deception. The counterfeit spirit. The kundalini evil that is coming in to our buildings, and you into the hearts of people who are striving to not gold was even more worrying is this no shepherds to look out for the show you the footage that I took when I walked into this amazing USOC's overdeveloped birthing base kundalini spirit is the most disturbing thing I've ever wanted to especially place this Christian so show you this note please tone off of the subjects is very disturbing. This evil will show you is to warn you to stay well away from this talking thing is not Christianity is the New Age kundalini and to cross spirit. These people are under the influence of cruel full witnesses which this psyche is broken down to leave them vulnerable to the power of suggestion and the manipulation of experience great deception is coming. Frankly, I think a great deception is already upon us and it has infiltrated some of our churches, and I'm spending this program and part of the next program talking to parents who lost a daughter to the great deception I'm talking for this hour and part of next with Dirk and Joan Miller and they lost their daughter Kaitlyn to the well what you just heard going on at Bethel church Redding California and we been talking. The first segment little bit about how it all happened. Caitlin had a serious illness for all of her teen years, Dirk and Joan feel that Bethel tapped into that even scared her by saying if she didn't come to Bethel that illness could return and Caitlin had been healed of their particular illness so they were using some fear tactics and then pretty soon mind control set in. Once the a Bethel church got into the so-so counseling, then more mind control more hypnotized tight behavior began with her. She sort of became a mind numbed robot. This is according to her parents who are in studio with me and Dirk and Joan, let me just talk for a few minutes here about some of the tactics used. We've already talked about so-so counseling which is kind of memory regression, but they use other tactics they got these fire tunnels in which is bizarre. You have to watch it online to believe that the fire tunnels and I don't think you ever saw anything like that of folks you have to see that online but you did see love bombing, and that is extremely common with these types of organizations that are terribly cultish.

Can you describe what you saw there. They were telling our girls that they were the only ones with the gifts that they had that they'd ever seen on these are people that are in their 60s and been Christians for years raised five kids and you know they were truly trying to persuade them that they couldn't live without them at Bethel Caitlin. They were constantly calling her and telling her how wonderful and perfect she was and they had to have her gifts at Bethel and you know they had 1800 students. I don't know why they needed Caitlin so badly. Are you aware of some of the other things that this church is engaged in, including the sure you are the grave soaking on this is beyond bizarre average display clip that actually talks about that because they actually lay on the graves of deceased saints and feel that the spirit in the grave is going to come into them.

Again, this is Andrew Strom who has done wonderful research on this kundalini spirit and this is what were dealing with folks. It's kind of a Christianized version of Hinduism. Now you know anybody listening here. If at Bethel church is going to deny this and say it's anything but that you can't when you see it.

That's all you can conclude is that this is some sort of Christianized Hinduism, and particularly when it concerns this kundalini and if I had television you would be seeing visually, you'd see these young people heavily twentysomething kids who are writhing, groaning, crying, screaming, you heard some of that in the clip introducing this segment of the program, it would seem to me that there's more demonism going on than anything else and that's because of this kundalini spirit file matter stronghold 2015 edition all kundalini warning skirts inviting the church the right reason we put out this new version of the book is because of Bill Johnson and Bethel church in Redding, California. But what really concerns us is what's going on behind the scenes of the oldest footage comes from so screwed just use Google's wife Johnson's being the senior coat poster alongside her husband.

This woman is some truly weird new IT stuff reflexology and much more beauty. Johnson herself put up this picture she's long soaking on CS Lewis right these students from Bethel school of ministry in the been photographed around the world lying on the graves did Christian leaders as a teaching and some of these circles that you consult up the anointing by lying on the gripes is Bill Johnson himself at the grave of the wife of Smith would famous healing evangelists because people so I Bill Johnson is such a great teacher is such a great writer, but it's actually what's going on in the background. The concerns us. The spreading of New Age practices. The spreading of the New Age chocolate going to really worry 2012.

The Bethel crowd put out this book, the physics of Hib subtotal Susan old exploring God's mysteries sound like energy vibrations and quantum physics. Many Christian leaders when they read this book site is one of the most New Age things that it was saying. The contents are unbelievable just to check the headings along the proof enough by brightening in harmony with God. The golf vibrations don't therapy quantum mysticism human body frequency, what on earth is a major ministry like Bethel doing promoting such a weird and mystical work goals this deeply New Age book still sold on the Bethel whipsaw to the site after role that's who it's come from your listening to understanding the times radio and Jim Markel and were spending the hour talking about Bethel church Redding California.

Some of the tactics that they use because I have parents in studio with me. Their daughter Kaitlyn. Well she was. I want to say she was sort of kidnapped by Bethel, not literally, but once she got out there is certainly her mind and emotions were taken over by this church and Dirk the thing that keeps coming back to me is that Bethel kept insisting that Caitlin had been abused and, obviously, and I know you folks as parents. The last thing you have in your agenda is to abuse your kids.

Did you ever address and I know you had a moment with Bill Johnson. It was a very brief moment, and you had some other time with another couple of pastors there you ever tell them that you know what, that's the last thing on our mind that would ever do our children would be abusive.

We told Caitlin's mentor happened to meet with him once we decide that's absolutely not possible that it happened on our watch, and what did they say well, Caitlin is very fragile. You know he actually told us that she thinks she had memories of abuse and Dirk said we said absolutely not.

She was never abused and in passing saw him and he said she absolutely remembers that she was abused and that's very typical of this recovered memory therapy that they get these kids in a controlling environment. They start love bombing and then they move on to group therapy and one person says they have this problem and then the next one has the same problem.

I have a couple books they use that have lists of proof that you are abused.

Did you ever have nightmares as a child.

Every person on the planet could say I must've been abused. If they look at these lists yet so she had one thing on the list. We don't know what was on her list, but if you had just one NIH 70 A.D. 100 points if he had just one right then that that kid would had been abused and the man went. The one time that we met with her. We tried to see her and they said we couldn't and she didn't want to see us and I bagged the next time we went out there and they said they didn't have anywhere to meet and I'm thinking of a huge church, you have a house your daughters have houses.

Caitlin has an apartment. Why can't you find a place for us to meet and they finally said well we can meet in this obscure little coffee shop and we found it and they were sitting there with her on one end of a very long table and we went in and sat down. It wouldn't let us get near her and the woman had her hand on Caitlin's knee. The entire time and they started questioning us and intimating that we been abusive and this was at that point news to us. This was the first encounter. We got with this accusation and I was weeping. I said what did we do. Katie tell me I ask your forgiveness for anything I will go before the church. Tell me what we did and she said it's on the list and the man held up a legal pad singlespaced covering this page of accusations against us. And he would not tell us what was on the list really had no idea what we were being accused of. I spoke with his wife.

Later I actually called her and said can somebody tell us what we did. You must have the list. She said oh Mike just made that list so Caitlin could be sure and remember all the things you did to her but nobody's we still to this day.

Don't know what the accusations are beyond abuse which we love our daughter. We love her and were not matter.

We know that they these people have.

I don't know what the word would be brainwashed or seduced her to believe lies you had a short conversation with Pastor Bill Johnson and how did that play out.

We decided to go back to one of their conferences and is paying members just to be legitimately bear from their point of view and hoping we could meet with some of the pastors and after Bill spoke at one of the sessions.

He was in the back of the auditorium, so we thought. While the sarcastic may be appealed to Bill and we went to talk with him and basically to appeal and say why we vote this problem and we all communication is been caught off by our daughter from us in 400 people on Facebook we don't understand that what's going on that she could be so affected by the Bethel school of international ministry or whatever they call it supernatural and supernatural. Bill threw up his arms and said only that on me and I said will, if not you who aren't you the head pastor and then his bouncer stepped in and said I'll handle this. And then Bill said no, wait wait wait wait wait wait wait you could maybe meet with my son. He's one of the pastors here.

Go see if you can get an appointment with him. And if you can't all meet with you in two days and that we did not get to meet with his son, but we managed to meet with Galen's personal mentor, which would be one of the 64 pastors there or whatever. Then, the head of the, the Dean of the school lets out with what I want to do eventually hear us talk to you about the graduation ceremony and Dirk.

You also said to me because I'm assuming you had to pay the $2500 a year for Katie to be a part of Bethel school of supernatural ministry correct. We did not want her to go there once she made this pronouncement that she was going and we did a little bit of research, we said Katie know you have some amazing opportunities lined up in career and on the career she was interested in at sea. We didn't know that they had told her God would make her sick again if she didn't go there. She managed to come up with the money herself and we couldn't stop her.

She was an adult. Okay, so you didn't finance it.

Then we didn't finance it, and demand that he may be I don't know we don't know what his entire and eventual input was with her. They totally cut us off from any information we were treated like we were criminal abusers and Katie lived with their daughter and her husband and it was up is hard living situation. Actually the girls that were living with those people paying rent actually had as their living area and unheated garage and and when we visited in November. It was freezing, there was the same temperature in Reading that it was in Minnesota November 17 and those girls were sitting in the garage on old furniture in their winter coats shivering and doing their schoolwork and I said why are two guys in the house. I don't understand there's a heated house right behind us here and they said this is our special place so irate when I get back I'm going to just explain a little bit further with the new apostolic Reformation is and eventually want to get to the story of the graduation service which is beyond bizarre folks. It's all I can say will do that. I am coming back in just a couple of minutes don't go away. In today's world who do you trust for good insight on current events for that matter who you trust for good Bible commentary. America is full of fake news and false teaching.

That's why we want to offer you an alternative both. We are understanding the times radio with Jan Markel and our main objective is to tell you the truth about current events as they relate to a biblical worldview. Join us each week on this station for source.

Thank you for listening to this edition of understanding the times radio.

This is one of the most listened to radio programs in America today. As you listen with why we could see why people to hear the latest from Jan Markel trust were helping you understand the times find hope in Jesus Christ. Keep in touch with you through our website.

All of between views.or just by phone at 763-559-4444 the latest on our fall conference and download the latest radio posting.

Visit us@alloftruenews.org to help us maintain our broadcast presence in your neighborhood. Please consider becoming a partner. Tax-deductible gifts are welcome. When you write to all of three ministries Box 1452, Grove, MN 55313 ministries is carrying a new product to help you contend for the faith and understand the time it is Terry James new book deceivers exposing seducers and their last days deception. Our generation is characterized by deceiving tactics in church, the media, the school room, the government, the globalist agenda and much much more. I have contributed a chapter in the book talking about the deception that has invaded the church in the last 30 years. Find the book in our web store and all of his.org the hardbound 320 page reference book you can call us to order 763-559-4444 763-559-4444 is also featured in our printed newsletter sign up online. Don't let the deceivers fool you or those you care about. Many are falling these days. Options and delusions of our day stay in tune and up-to-date order deceivers today. This is Jan Markel. Many Christian leaders avoid the topics of our day. But here on this program we hit them, head on the times demand we address the hard issues and bring a biblical viewpoint into focus. Thanks for joining us beneficial at same or not you think it will make you less you think you will be happier thank you okay if it is not of God is contrary to it end up in a place you want to find your story today is Marco false teachers have always been a problem and it was a problem in the Old Testament it was a problem in the New Testament is a problem the day and Peter in this epistle describes them rather thoroughly and so I want you to listen to what he says beginning in chapter 2 and beginning in verse one but false prophets also arose among the people. Just as there will be false teeth use among you who will secretly introduce instructive terraces, even denying the master who bought them, bringing swift instruction upon themselves, and many will follow their sensuality and because remember where the truth will be malign and in their greed they will exploit you with false words, their judgment from long ago is not idle and their instruction is not asleep and welcome back wrapping up program number one with my in studio guests and I'll say more about them in just a moment, just a quick reminder that we've only got a few hundred seats left for understanding the times 2018.

You might want to think about making plans to just live stream and as were offering that on the website. Olive tree views.org at no cost. They live streaming, but you do need a ticket if you want to go to the event itself and you can call the brushfire ticketing agency you can access them online brushfire.com or call 888-338-5338. Again there just a few hundred seats left in our 40 mile almost 5000 seat venue.

But again, I would think about getting a group together and enjoying the live stream on Saturday, September 29 again.

Speakers include Amir Stephani Pastor JD Parag Pastor Billy Krohn Pastor Jack Hibbs, Eric Barger, I'll be there. The team from Olive tree ministries all be there and I hope you will consider not attending at least us live streaming it or getting the CDs and DVDs about a month later. Let me just say a word quickly about what's known as the new apostolic Reformation. You've heard my guests and me referencing what's known as the NAR or new apostolic Reformation. This is a group of men and women appointed by some NAR leaders. The appointed NAR prophets and apostles have authority and some would say equal authority to the prophets and apostles of the Bible, the most influential leader in this this stream would be the late C. Peter Wegner, Pastor Bill Johnson, whom we have been discussing in this programming would be a leader in the new apostolic Reformation, and again, let me say that it is not the purpose of this program to determine if this is a movement of God or not. I am critical of some of the so-called signs and wonders being promoted by the NAR. The leaders are engaging in a lot of what would be called extra biblical activity. In other words, far more than what the Bible talks about and that too many of them certainly not all believe in what's known as dominion theology. That is, the church will make the world perfect and then Jesus Christ can return and not until the church makes the world perfect while. How is that working out for the world. Bethel has on its homepage.

If you visit on earth as it is in heaven. That is, dominion is an again I strongly want to clarify that not all who are in the Pentecostal or charismatic stream go along with NAR theology. I suspect most do not see Peter Wegner invented the term new apostolic Reformation and then pronounced himself while God's appointed leader and he stated in 1980 he says quote I needed a name for a couple of years. I experimented with post-denominationalism. The name I settled on for the movement is the new apostolic Reformation. You might also hear it referred to as latter rain jewels are made the seven mountain mandate. They believe a great end time harvest is coming an outpouring it will occur once we battle enough demons perform enough miracles and unify under these new apostles, and I certainly believe a great harvest and outpouring is going to happen during the tribulation, probably not before the tribulation. So God is giving new revelation to his prophets and apostles. That's what the NAR would be leave and I'm not convinced that, see Peter Wegner is correct and that today's prophets and apostles are appointed to govern the church so that's just a little bit of explanation as to what on earth is this NAR or new apostolic Reformation. My concern further is that Bethel church.

Reading is establishing a trend within many churches today, a trend that is not producing healthy or well-balanced churches I have in studio for the hour and Dirk and Joan Miller and they have lost a daughter to Bethel. Reading and it during the break we were talking just a little bit about some of the additional tactics that are implemented and I want to just hit on a few more because one surprised me. I did not read this as it was I was doing my research and Dirk you told me that one of the things they participate in his contemplative prayer, which is a method of turning the mind off numbing the mind, and you saw them engaging in some call a contemplative prayer of this Culligan template same thing and contemplative prayer. He saw them engaging in this is very dangerous. By the way, yes, they have a special prayer building and that's lots of people are in there, just maybe, some refreshing normally but we saw that they were encouraging.

Turn your mind off of what guideline you obviously trashing the past is huge and is hard for me to comprehend how they even have a conscience to trash the passive with parents like you who come along and then insinuating all the abuse that went on and then suggesting that there's a better way.

There's a better way than how you folks raised. Caitlin is a better way and if they'll just follow this better way then you get this, whatever their profit of promising and promoting it.

Bethel church tell your thoughts on that. They got her. They persuaded her that we were not worthy of having any communication anymore and we have no idea what her specific allegations are only that we were abusive and I we have four other children that would deny that and an awful lot of friends that would deny it.

People we've been very close to for years it's been beyond heartbreaking.

This is been since 2011 when this all began September 2011 shows a lot of years that have gone by, here to help and Caitlin is now she's not in touch with you. Not at all, not any of us. She has NOT changed email addresses. We have no to us on this planet.

She doesn't exist. While a number of your family went out to try to reach her some of her siblings went out to an uncle went out you folks were now more than one time we were not for time and she would say at one point in time she was. I can't wait to see you then you'd get there and should be this mild, numb robot well couldn't put a spend time with you know and her sister. She has an older sister who has several children and they made the decision that year she left. They were going to for Christmas give their children plane tickets and fly to California.

They their father's brother lives there with his kids, so they wanted to see that their cousins but they also wanted to see Caitlin. He skyped with Caitlin right after Christmas of 2011. She was still having communication with her sisters minimally, but Amy got a hold of her and they skyped with her. She was all excited. The children were all excited to see her. She said I can get a ride to Sacramento no problem because it would've been eight hours one way for them to drive their children from where they were to visitor so they were to meet halfway four days before they left.

Art Amy got a email saying I don't have any way to get to you. I don't have time to do this and you know where it's not gonna work.

Amy immediately wrote her back and said Caitlin we will go anywhere we want to see you. The kids aren't excited to see you and that was the end of that she did not was not allowed to see Amy and the last time we visited there. When we were there for two weeks. We were told that was the last time we saw Caitlin that last day of the two weeks they finally arrange the meeting and that was one of the first thing she brought up, you didn't. Amy didn't care about me enough to want to come and see me and that was an absolute lie, but they also admitted that day that they were vetting all our communication with her and we know that she didn't see Amy's email saying will go anywhere, and there are other instances of we know that they kept told us they were. They were only allowing her to see communication that would not hurt her heart and apparently everything any of us centered. We I was even told I was manipulating her by sending her Christmas present or birthday present so no more gifts. Mom, Dirk, you have set up an email. There are people listening and we want to somehow be of encouragement to them and that we can do that work in a tape in a segment of another program coming up here and we can be little bit more encouraging that program, but you've set up an email for anybody who might be going through this.

As a parent for a young person whose it would like to get out of what their end is not to be Bethel.

Maybe it's on some other activity that has sort of cultish shades of Bethel, Redding, California and that email is Joel 3.16 b@outlook.com again. Joel 3.16 b@outlook.com and I'm hoping some folks will will write you and get some encouragement, some counsel, yes women were or wanted to appeal to the heart of all the family members who have been imprisoned emotionally by these groups, you know, because we've heard all I feel brokenhearted, or I feel hopeless, or I feel trapped Roseville afraid they don't know what to do because if they disappoint the group by going to their family, though, disappoint the group if they go to the group and disappoint the family there and double-blind and and yet how to get out of that and one of the things that the Lord has laid on our hearts is in Isaiah 61.

The Lord reads that in Luke 418 Jesus in the synagogue is reading about himself and he says I was sent here. The second thing it says is to bind up the brokenhearted and then it says to proclaim liberty to the captives to open the prison to them that are bound so if you're in a situation like this just encourage you turn to Jesus and say could you make those Scriptures real to me and what's with the Lord. Those folks this is been a difficult hour and and I want to wrap it up here in a few minutes.

My in studio guests and I honestly we have no interest in just casually calling out various leaders, pastors and teachers, but we certainly have the intended to sound a warning that there are wolves among the flock in today's church what's going on at Bethel church in Redding California probably gives new meaning to the verse in the last days, many false prophets shall come and deceive many that many will just want their ears tickled, perhaps with supposedly supernatural manifestations want to play one more clip of a gal by the name of Heidi Baker and she frequently ministers at Bethel church and as I said I'm cautious about throwing out terms like false teacher very casually, but to me, watching Heidi online she qualifies as a false teacher.

I want you to listen as she works the Bethel kids into an emotional state. In this clip at the end you will hear a young man perhaps 20 years old scream as though he sounds as though a demon has been imparted to him now.

This is serious stuff.

This is playing with fire and Bethel church is playing with fire. And it's not just me saying this, there are dozens, perhaps hundreds of YouTube warnings online that you can find from very very credible critics far beyond my warnings here today and if you saw this clip I can only show the audio if you saw this clip, you would see that this was just a normal young man in the Bethel service and Heidi Baker seems to impart something to him and then he begins actually literally writhing and groaning and I see a very strange invasion right now. I see crowns within crowns with crowns within crowns within crowns with the crown as soon as you take the crowd often placed on the child. I see like a pyramid of crowns upon the child's head and they take the largest one often placed it on another there's another one there and I see this is I feel like there's this it's like a mountain of provision of anointing the more you give away the more you will receive, says the Lord. So right now I sensing really strongly in his sound a little odd, but too late.

I want you just to take in the spirit realm that crown that's on your hand and just place upon someone else there can it just can't wrap all of the real is okay… Like it doesn't matter doing most impartation most impartation you've never believed for right now you're been imparted to each other.

The you lots more Lord Moran everybody place plays knowing that keep everything you impartation the legacy magazine magazine legacy increase your glory will fireplace the well the new apostolic Reformation. It is not sound. There I said it. You are caught up in it.

Hear the words of warning take them seriously. We touched on only 10% of the problems in this stream.

By the way were going to have another segment short segment with Dirk and Joan Miller next week to conclude our two-part series, perhaps you'd like to get a couple of CDs to pass on to someone else give my office a call. Let me disclose with a couple of Bible verses. Matthew 2424 for false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Second Timothy for a time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear people who refuse to listen to the truth and turn to myths will talk to you next week, folks, we conclude our two-part series. Thanks for listening and all will thank you for joining us radio with John Marco across America and across the world wide web report prevents perspective every week of this book will cost cost us thousands of dollars to produce and reduce weekly media outreach, would you consider starting with us with an ever-changing world need to keep informed to be aware of current events is the lens of Scripture which, after which John Marco pulling our culture and bringing hope and faith in Christ rescued you to join us in this supportive ministry as our partner is right or text gifts to all of the screws exporting to the soda by five also welcome all of the Lord all 763594 global updates with yours round-the-clock to all three views.arch Ford heard from you soon. Should you continue per support. John Marco returns the information and inspiration packed all