The Narrow Path 10/6

Good afternoon and welcome to the narrow path radio broadcast.

My name is Steve Greg and were live for an hour each weekday afternoon, were taking your calls as usual. If you have questions you'd like to ask on their about the Bible or Christianity will be glad to talk to about those things. If you have a different viewpoint from the host you're always welcome to call into balance. Comment all right and were to go well. I should mention tonight. I am well right now broadcasting from the south south of Houston, Texas it to chocolate Bayou and the chopper by your worship center is so little church I spoke in back in December and I'm back there again tonight and if you are interested in joining us going to be speaking on the kingdom of God. Now I would speak on the kingdom of God.

Everywhere we go.

And that's not usually the case that I always teach on the same thing with travel fact I like to mix it up and have different subjects just so I don't so I don't bore myself. I repeated myself so much but the truth is that I've been asked in most these locations to speak on the kingdom of God, partly because my book on the subject is just coming out the hard copy is not yet out, it will be out the 15th of this month, but the Kindle version is already out and it's going to be up to two book project. Both books are written in both books are at the publisher but not both are not coming out the same time, the one that has come out first is called the empire of the sun is. Part of the risen son SON and it's book 1, there is another king of the second book will be out probably a couple months. I assume, and to it's called empire of the risen son book to all the kings men, which is a book about discipleship action. The second book. As I was writing it would seem to be like a great curriculum for discipleship for those who churches who might have discipleship classes. The first book is more of a attempt to make people understand what the kingdom of God is what Jesus was talking about what he said about it with the Bible as a whole teaches about it. There's a sense in which the first book is kind of a summary of the whole Bible does go through the Old Testament and in the teaching of Jesus and the apostles and onto the onto the end of the world, basically. So the first, what kind of surface surveys the whole Bible elucidating the steam of the kingdom of God than the second book is a about discipleship or participation as a citizen of the kingdom of God. Anyway, the first book of course is out on Kindle.

It will be out in hard copy from Amazon and Barnes & Noble of those places on the 15th of this month.

The other book will be following behind by several weeks. All right, so I'm at the chocolate Bayou worship Center tonight seven and anyone who's in the area was certainly welcome to join us. 7 o'clock. If you are interested in coming. You can go to our website.

The narrow path.com and and look under announcements, and will give you location of this church now. Tomorrow night I'll be speaking in Dallas area. Richardson Texas and that's so we got listers up there too. So tomorrow you get information on both of those gatherings at our website. The narrow path.com under the cabinets is announcements all right a first color today is John in Jackson, Wyoming John, welcome to the narrow path expert calling the got a crazy question right of the bed is your your intro music. The whistling is that you know it's a friend of mine friend of mine wrote that Sargon performed his name is John and I really enjoyed regulated. I do too much.

My question is on divine healing and I like things, like an equation. If you do this. This will happen such as you know, if I if I put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I will be saved is something I is a certainty and and there seems to be a statement in and James about divine healing that is like that you know versus chapter 514 and 54 to 59 chapter 5 work of 14, 15 but are only are we missing the boat here somewhere.

I'm coming well a lot equation is not working down there. There are many people out there. Of course, who believe that God has promised believers if they have enough faith that they will always be well, and if they get sick with the be supernaturally healed.

They believe that sickness is no part of the normal Christian life and they even believe that Jesus when he died not only paid for the forgiveness of our sins, but also for the healing of the diseases they believe his death on the cross atone for our sins, and his previous whipping at the whipping post acquired our healing from physical diseases. Now frankly none of these verses.

Another verse that use are actually saying these things course to be a matter of debate, and I do. I do look at all those verses and discuss them in my lecture series on the word of faith teaches our market going to the now what I will say is that there is really no passage that is an absolute guarantee of healing to someone who simply has no faith about the passage. It probably sounds most as if it might make such a promise is there in James chapter 5. Now let's take a look at it.

He says in verse 14 is anyone among you sick let them call for the elders of the church and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord in the prayer of faith will save the sick and the Lord will raise him up, and if he is committed since he'll be forgiven him. Now it says that if you call for the elders of the church when you're sick, and they anointing with oil and they pray with faith overview that the prayer of faith will save the sick and the Lord will raise him up. Now the word save is a word that can mean he'll becoming a number of things can we deliver rescue heel there so that it has a broad range of the Greek language and so even though says that the sick will be saved.

One possible meaning of the word is the sick will be healed okay. That's not the normal reading of the word, but it can encompass that idea and then the statement that says the Lord will raise him up now. There are times in the Gospels, where we read of sick people were healed in and says that Jesus raise them up. That is, they were never in bed as sick and he raise them up and healed them so these words, the prayer of faith will save the sick could mean will heal the sick and all in and the Lord will raise him up might be raise him up well from his sick bed. That's certainly the way that this verse is been taken by very many who've read it and it's understandable why they might, but I would note that there isn't. There is another word for healing that James could've used.

If you want to be that specific.

Instead he said the prayer of faith will save the sick, which could refer to healing, but it might refer to something else that might refer to salvation.

It's the normal word for salvation and if he wanted to specifically say they'll be healed and be unambiguous about it.

He could have used the word that actually means healing instead of one that could refer to healing or something else and that means that he left it somewhat ambiguous if if the sick is pray for, will God heal him or will he simply save money be saved.

Likewise expression, the Lord will raise him up. It is used in the Gospels, sometimes to refer to a person being healed and raised up from their sick bed and so you know, it could mean that here that it's also the same word that is used to be speak of people being resurrected on the last day where Jesus said I will raise him up on the last day several times and in the Gospels of John in chapter 6 he uses the same expression will be raised up, which means that when James says this, though he could have use words that were unambiguous and could have made it very clear. This is a promise of healing. He actually use words that are more ambiguous than necessary necessary which leaves to my mind and out. He could be saying listen if if you're sick, and the elders of pray for you and you confess your sins to them, which is also the passage.

The next verse I will be saved and maybe healed.

And the Lord will raise you up, perhaps even from your sickbed but if not that, at least if you don't survive will be raised up on the last day. It's like he's leaving an open ended because James knows just like we know if we read the Bible that God doesn't heal everybody even not every good person, not even every miracle working person Elisha, the prophet had raise the dead, and healed the sick, and done amazing things, but he died sick, he got sick and he didn't get better get he died people. There's no promise that godly people a lot of faith are going to necessarily always be well.

Paul himself both healed many sicknesses from other people. He raise the dead of other people, but he himself was sick. He says in Galatians that he came because of physical infirmity on his part to Galatia and he of course mentions his thorn in the flesh and second cravings 12 which she reached describes as a sickness also uses the word in the Greek that's the most common word for sickness.

He speaks of his own thorn in the flesh is a sickness, and so Paul apparently had sickness even though healed others. A raised other dead.

Paul had companions who were sick that he was apparently not capable of healing Timothy one of his closest companions had chronic stomach problems. Paul spoke of him as his oft infirmities his frequent infirmities again.

The word infirmities is that word most often used in the New Testament of sickness.

Timothy had stomach problems and Paul told him to drink a little wine for which is a medicinal treatment for amoebic dysentery and and Timothy apparently was drinking water unit was not safe to drinking have me do some simple social drink some wine with that because that's one way to control that problem. So instead of healing them. He just told how to treat it. Likewise, he had a companion in ministry name truthfulness and second Timothy chapter 4 pulses I left truthfulness sick in the latest of this one is working companions. He could be the guy was sick quite and bulges healed. There is another worker with him that he talks on Philippians that had almost died but got better is a God had mercy on him and he recovered but he did indicate that he recovered miraculously. In fact, it sounds like Paul was almost fearful that he would lose his friend, but God mercifully healed.

In other words, Paul talks about healing as if it's not a guarantee, and he and he himself when he prayed for the healing of his sickness. Jesus said, my grace is sufficient for you, my strength is made perfect in your weakness. And so Boston okay and I'll rejoice in my infirmity and sickness and so obviously the Bible does not teach that every powerful healing apostle, or man of faith will be healed himself, or can be, heal others, there's no guarantee of healing.

So James. James certainly knew that James was not in a different world than the other apostles and so he did not make a universal promise of healing. He did make a promise that God would respond and here confession of sins and and prayers of faith and he use words that that could suggest that you he might even healing heal save them. To be sure and saving could include healing, but it doesn't necessarily fill raise them up for sure on the last day he might raise him up sooner from his sickbed.

It seems interesting that James used words that were deliberately ambiguous, and yet if we assume that is promising healing here that that the Lord will heal him and raise him up for sickbed, then this would be the closest thing in the entire Bible to a promise of universal healing. All you have to do is call the elders. This church let them put some oil on your paper. Faith in you, be healed.

As I said, I don't believe that James is making that kind of a specific promise, and certainly no other place in the Bible does something was able Jesus healed everyone who was sick and came him nonsense.

He did not do that Lazarus was sick and Jesus didn't heal him, let them die.

He later raised him from the dead, because that was that was a better idea than healing and God may let us die sick. Many Christians do dissect just like non-Christians. There's not a difference between us and them. But we are raised up from the dead and sometimes it God knows there's a better idea. We think we think the best ideas always first to be healed. And the reason is because were self-centered and either we or our loved ones being sick is inconvenient and and saddening to us, but God has larger purposes in mind many times in his larger purpose may include a person remaining unhealed, maybe even dying. Certainly, Jesus prayed that he might escape death. He wasn't sick, exactly, but he was facing death. He asked God the 3rd cup might pass for this and not my will but yours be done. And when we asked for God to relieve us or rescue us or heal us or anything like that we needed be like Jesus and say well if it sure will your will be done, not mine, so that's I think the balance on the teaching of healing is not absent promise of it but there is a promise that if we truly repent and be saved.

So there are promises that are commonly and unambiguously made of Scripture which we can count on and they do and they are true, but the ones that that we want to say a certain thing but they don't specifically say it is rather presumptuous for us to insist that they must be true in the God has to respond to our expectations. I don't know if you're aware that I have a.m., a series of lectures on a website called the Word of Faith movement. It's a response to our answer to the Word of Faith movement and one of the lectures is called is healing in the atonement. A very important question with reference to divine healing and the other lecture on that subject is called healing on demand and examines the question of whether God promises healing simply whenever we demand so I'd recommend if you're interested in a fuller treatment on this topic to go to the narrow path.com look under topical lectures and then find the lectures the word of faith.

It's called Word of Faith teachers for lectures and they will go to this much more thoroughly than I can. Right now John, thank you for your call.

Let's talk next to another John in Indianapolis, Indiana hi John, welcome to the narrow path fax: eight the aria good you get to be in Indianapolis speaking in that week.

I think yeah I know you're coming around and looking forward to attending great yeah I called last week and I called about my concern with the different Jesus and you referred me to Zeitgeist on YouTube and hence my responses.

It's I guess I respond, I think I recommend you read Alyssa my response to Zeitgeist and so along the way I've I've heard there is a Paducah gum wrapper that said, the truth always have the best argument you got that for me yeah I got it from visited gum wrapper when I was about Deb's writing that I was given no praise the Lord Steve because there really it just confirms my my final will to just disconnect my cable.

You know I don't even watch these clowns anymore get out there.

You live in fear so they produce all of this year and it just keeps on helping those that I have a question today yeah I I'm a little nervous about this because the I have quite a few notes on this and I'm not sure I want to at, but you have it have to do with the different Jesus and has to do with Zachariah and messianic prophecy in Zachariah and I okay so on. Peter in second Peter 116 says that we do not come at you cunningly devised fables. Paul in Ephesians 414 says were not to be tossed to and fro by any wind of doctrine, and so there seems to be.

I'd I can do a stuck point in acts 23 eight where good strategies denied the resurrection, and for some reason I'm blinking that with Zachariah being turned into a cunningly devised fables and big Dave put in Messiah Ben David missed. I have been Joseph turned around the priesthood of Joshua somehow I just looking Johnny's unfamiliar with every datum you have referred to. I'm not sure where you're going with, what is your is your question with well it seems. There's been a real confusion created through what is the website that I've read about good news Zachariah. Or maybe it would be okay.

I don't know about is I don't know that new and old Zachariah but what is that you're asking about Walt's work.

Zachariah turned into a cunningly devised stable you my home by Pharisees in the side of the two confused people as to the true Messiah in Christ while I'm not sure. I'm sure where this is confirmed I I'm looking the book of Zechariah that I don't know what passage in Zechariah thinking of what what prophecy, what vision of Zechariah you're thinking of because I I'm not aware of any taking of the book of Zechariah in the Old Testament book of Zechariah right. Not one of the other generators okay so so you're asking of the Sadducees and the Pharisees had taken something in the book of Zechariah and turn it into fable what is it in the book immediately got sick or has like 10 visions and on different subjects. What would the I what have you read what is what seems to be what I've read, delete the misunderstanding of King David's throne in the future Messiah. I'm not seeing that you need a specific passage, Zechariah, because most of Zechariah doesn't say anything about David's throne. There is there are a number of places in Zechariah speak of the Messiah and even the name David appears a few times, but but no I'm I'm just curious. I don't see a connection between what the Pharisees and Sadducees said about a parent of the resurrection is what you learn about EN and and the book of Zechariah. All I can say to me. Let me just try to address the question of the Sadducees and Pharisees, the, the Old Testament did not speak very unambiguously about the resurrection of the end times. In fact the Old Testament didn't speak unambiguously about life after death.

If you had only the Scriptures of the Old Testament have lived at that time, you would not have any scriptural basis for certainty. Even if there is a life after death. So some though some people believed in one. Certainly, David appeared to believe in a life after death there is no description of what it's like as far as a resurrection of the body, there is there are probable resurrection passages which are somewhat ambiguous in some parts of the Old Testament, but there's no clear teaching resurrection except some people would find one in Daniel 12 to but I don't necessarily think that's talk of the resurrection.

Sounds like it.

I think it's figurative. I don't think you really get a clear resurrection teaching in Judaism until the inter-test metal. That is after the Old Testament is finished and before the New Testament came there were Jews who who adopted ideas of resurrection and and Jesus apparently agreed with them. So investment right but they didn't have very much from the Old Testament to go on how this how this morphed from an Old Testament silence on the subject more or less to a fully a full-blown resurrection theology on the part of the Pharisees, on the other hand I I'm not. I don't know how that was trade some people think it came through Greek or not great but Persian Zoroastrian Zoroastrianism.

Zoroaster actually believed in a resurrection, and some Jews. Lots of Jews were in Persia in the intertest. And therefore would be exposed that, but whatever whatever the original source in Judaism.

We know that Jesus embraced the idea of a resurrection of the last day so that whatever anyone else before him said or didn't say is irrelevant when we know Jesus and the apostles taught a future resurrection, but I don't think they twisted anything to do. So I Jesus did notwithstanding in the Pharisees who believed the resurrection essentially were right because Jesus agreed with them and so did Paul. In fact, when Paul was on trial before the Jewish court, he actually said that he believed in the doctor, the resurrection, which he said of the Jews themselves. They said the Jews themselves except this Dr. him at the Pharisees so now he he had essentially have a very similar view of the resurrection, and Jesus did to that of first Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection of the dead at all they can believe in spirits or an afterlife at all. And that's partly because they only accepted the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Old Testament, they can actually accept the Psalms of the prophets as Scripture.

And that's if you find anything about the resurrection in the Old Testament defined in the Psalms and the prophets, and are confined in the Pentateuch, at least not easily minutes interestingly enough, Jesus found something in the Pentateuch, usually the Sadducees came to Jesus and challenged him on the business of the resurrection they didn't think there was a good argument for it and he said to them you are foolish not knowing the Scriptures or the power of God, and he took some from the Pentateuch feel the only part of the Old Testament accepted and he found a resurrection document and a said, did you not read that when Moses was at the burning bush, which was an Exodus God said to him, I'm the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Three men who had been dead for centuries as a coherent reason men who been from Genesis, who had been dead for centuries and God tells Moses on the God of these guys and Jesus says God is not the God of dead people, but of living people, which is a way of saying these guys apparently are not dead permanently because God is still there God and God is the God of people were dead as the God of people who are alive, so it's an interesting argument that Jesus made, but he clearly used the portion of the Old Testament of the Sadducees claim to believe in and he got some nuances out of the vague and never notice so weak we can see the Sadducees were the ones who are wrong and Jesus even said they were wrong because they didn't know the Scriptures or the power of God telling that you don't know all the Scriptures you Psalms and profit. In any case, the I don't know of anyone who specifically twisted Zechariah 600 asked him not really sure how the question even after after you shared some questions formulated anyway a lot of time for this one and I appreciate your calling. Thanks for joining us with another half-hour coming up with a break here just to tell you the narrow path is listener supported. You can write to us at the narrow path, PO Box 1730 some regular CA 92593 thousand on it from the website where everything is free.

The narrow path.com that's the narrow path.com object in 30 seconds with another half-hour had totally negated. Nearly half that leads to life continue nearing Pat everything in today's media show is over and enjoying my visit in the narrow path.com find free topical audio teaching blog articles diverse teachings and archives of narrow Panamanian shadows rethinking for supporting the listener supported narrow path that Steve Greg member the narrow path.com that's an narrow last radio broadcast regular life for another half-hour taking your calls you have questions about the Bible of the Christian faith. You can call me at this number 844-484-5737 that's 844-484-5737 if you happen to be in or near Houston tonight. I'm speaking in that chocolate value at the chocolate Bayou worship center on the subject of the kingdom of God. And that's at 7 o'clock tonight. We certainly welcome you to join us and if you don't know where that is time she could find it online or you can do from our website. Go to the narrow path.com and go to the announcements tab scrolling down to tonight, state which is 6 October and that you'll see the time and place. And if you're interested then we'll see you tonight in chocolate value Texas okay were you go back to the phones I David and Cameron element to say before I take your call, David.

Last time we talked you were disingenuous with me and I don't like I don't want to talk to you if you to be disingenuous. You are your making some points and I was saying and I just said very innocuously. I said as I recall, your Seventh-day Adventist and you said what does that matter. Some like that.

I said well you are, aren't you, and you wouldn't say yes and you wouldn't say no. Which means you are because if you work it say no I'm not, so I wasn't sure why you are ashamed to admit that you are, but let's be honest right from the beginning, the scholarly won't be in a conversation you are seven, Dennis correct yes or no question. A simple question.

I know you everybody. Everybody was listening diligently not and that's why heading up on you.

That's not what I said are you sent and okay okay telling the truth. Okay, listen, if you think you're telling the truth elliptical continue. You are not telling the truth, you can rethink your said don't argue further about it. Anyone can go back to the previous show, listen, see that you did not say yes okay now next topic? What is your question sees life she's with the Lord absent from the body and present with the Lord sure does. Both are in the Bible tell us what happened when Christ comes back through the trump of God. Yes, the yes and so will I when I if I die the forges of every Christian.

Okay I'm going to like your question, just listen and I'll answer your question. Your off the year I've hung up, but I will answer you because you don't have to keep asking and not allowing me to answer. I'm not sure why this is difficult for you. The Bible teaches, the resurrection of the body. On the last day.

Okay, I never said her body is in heaven. Nobody believes that the bodies of dead Christians are in heaven, what we believe, at least what most Christians believe. I realize you don't most Christians have believed is that a death the spirit departs from the body and if you are a believer in Christ, Utah. As Paul put it in Philippians 1 when he was anticipating his own death is a possibility said I desire to depart and be with the Lord departments die and be with the Lord. His his conviction was that he wishes is far better.

He was in prison he was, not healthy. He is not comfortably cited be better for me just die, just apart and be with the Lord so we know that Paul expected. If he died he view the Lord and and later on that is Philippians 1 but in second Corinthians. He said that while we're at home in this body we are absent from the Lord. This is what we were eager to be absent from the body and be present with the Lord.

So I mean something is like table. He didn't technically save it to be absent from bodies to be present. What Lord you're right, he didn't use those phrases he made very clear. That's what he believed. He believed that lower in this body meeting before we die we are absent from the Lord but were eager to be absent from the body, which means that and present with the Lord same time.

Now, in the resurrection we will be with the Lord that we will not be absent from the body. The body will be raised at the resurrection we will be in our bodies. So Paul is not talking about the resurrection and second Corinthians 5 in first Corinthians 15 he was talking of the resurrection, and you know if you think that those are somehow impossible to harmonize. Then you haven't been out much. I mean you haven't really been listening outside your own denomination much true Seventh-day Adventist because they insist in soul sleep and that no one is in heaven until Jesus comes back and raises the dead. They they don't they. They don't look for ways to harness the Scripture on the subject, they just look for verses that that refute the more traditional view of the subject, but they like you. Apparently have never thought through one of the subjects can be harmonize and he certainly can Christians for 2000 years had no trouble harmonizing them. I've been teaching for 50 years. I've never seen a problem not never see why anyone would have a problem with it. We have body and we have a soul and we can be present in the body or absent from the body has very clear.

If I can be absent for my body. I'm not my body just like I'm currently not in California or my home, his son absent from my home because I am not my home, my house is something I'm something else I can be absent from it or present in my body.

I can be present in my body are absent but the no question that Paul said and so it what he said one absent from the body and present the Lord and that's not a problem because the part of me that's with the Lord. If I die is not my body.

The resurrection does impact my body if I die, my body will be in the ground, it will decay, it will become dust and then let my spirit with Christ until he returns when he returns says in first Thessalonians 415 or 14.

He says that if we believe the God that Jesus died and rose again, even so we believe that those who have died in Christ will bring with him. Okay, so if I die in Christ before Jesus comes back I'll be with him and he'll bring me with him back here when he comes here so I don't really understand why this is such a problem to some Dennis except that it's a hobbyhorse there are two particular hobbyhorse is there more than two but the big hobbyhorse of perceptiveness is to insist that we have to have a Saturday Sabbath, which I'm ambivalent about. You can beat you commercial Saturday Sabbath.

If you want to. I'm not to be the legalist that some feathers are about it and the other one is they just have to hammer on soul sleep, which I can't even imagine why that would and we get excited about. I'm supposed soul sleep is true. Okay, what if it is true what you mean.

It means if I die I'll be totally unconscious until Jesus comes back, which means that in terms my subjective expense. I close my eyes, and death and open them as far as I can tell instantly, maybe thousands of years of gone by since I die before resurrected.

It will seem instant to me so charming, there's nothing about it. That's unpleasant about the doctor and I'm not. I don't resist the doctor because it's unpleasant. It's not. I resisted because is now the Bible teaches.

At least, not as I understand about my relationship differently, but but if I mean II had to hang up on you so that I could speak so that you could get an answer because I hope you wanted one. I don't think you did. I think you're being rhetorical.

But I'm going to give you the benefit without that you're being honest and curious and so I give you an answer. Thanks for calling Barbara and Sacramento, California. Welcome to the narrow path. This way you talk to when for some reason my contract don't have actually and absolutely free. Well, I'm not sure how well Ephesians 15 it says that God predestined us to adoption as sons now whose us us means the believers in Christ. So if were believers in Christ, God has a destiny for us. He predestined that those who are believers in Christ will experience adoption into his family as sons. He didn't have to.

In the Old Testament there were believers in God and they weren't adopted into his family and since we are.

They were born. Read generated report. So what God has predestined is that believers will have a destiny of being his family. Now if there's a similar statement with WordPress is used in Romans chapter 8 and verse 29 where it says whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son. Now the ones that he foreknew of course refers to us believers. And he says those once he has predestined to be conformed in the image of his son. So again, neither of these passages tells of God pretesting pretesting anyone to be a believer. He addresses believers in Ephesians and says we have been predestined to be adopted.

That's art. That's the predestination that he has in mind for some by the way when Paul talks about adoption and that passage is probably using at the same way he used it in Romans chapter 8 we talked about how we in this body to grow and looking forward to the adoption, which he said is the redemption of our body. So apparently the adoption that were predestined to the pulses is going to be the resurrection of our bodies and and so in Romans eight and 29 he says that he has predestined us to be conformed to the image of his son, which happens when were resurrected will be transformed into the image of Christ. So what was going on here is there are some people who take the word predestined and apply it in a way that nowhere in the Bible applies it in others, they make it sound that some people were predestined to believe and other people were predestined to not believe but the Bible never uses the term and any sentence that makes that point a few times that the word predestined is actually used in the New Testament. There's only two passages one is Romans 81 Ephesians 1 but those two times its target what God has predestined for Christians. Not that Scott has predestined some to become Christians in your right predestined does sound like you don't have a choice. If God predestined you to become a Christian and that was not your choice and it was God's church had nothing to do with it that he doesn't predestined who's going to be a Christian.

What is predestined is that Christians will have certain testing certain privileges.

They'll be adopted as sons will be conformed to the image of Jesus.

That's our destiny and we don't have a choice about that because God has determined that that's what's can happen.

As believers we do however have a choice of whether to be believers. In other words, we we choose whether we come. Believers and I believe we even could choose whether we remain believers. Believing is something that's an active mental choice.

I believe in Jesus. I choose to believe Jesus if the time came were believing in Jesus was too costly or inconvenient for me. I might be foolish enough to say I guess I'm not believing what I'd be very stupid to do that but if I did do that.

I'm choosing not to believe. So being a believer you know is something you choose to do and it's something that you choose to continue to do and so you have a choice all through, but the choice none of us have is what the believers are going to end up with. That's what God is predestined for the believers, is that will be adopted into his family through the resurrection will be conformed to the image of Jesus and that's what I think the word means. Ephesians 15 as well is that understand how to marry and a lot we are to see family. Thank you very much. We were taught we are often taught to see it that way the wrong way.

Think because reformed theology which is pretty much the Protestant movement originally was a Calvinistic and Calvinism teaches that individuals have been predestined to be believers or not to be believers and have nothing really to say about that. I mean, some of them will print will will object to me saying that we have nothing to say but evidently they can object all they want to. The doctrine is that before you were born God already had determined that you will not be able to believe that you will inevitably believe it's all it's inevitable for your born. According to them, so I mean if it was a happy stuff returns. Well, you can just use words.

Whatever word you want to do if you if it's inevitable for your born that year ago when we got it's not you really don't choose anything about it got me trust and that's what Calvinism teaches that some of the Bible teaches asked is because Calvinism will take really helped. Thank you. My procedure, I'm glad to be able to help, Sparta will write up Paul from Vancouver, British Columbia, and welcome to the narrow path I can because the buzz in the background and another noisy area yet we all would be well my view by my house that had not equal in the Quran, but many of them have been had. She had a relationship with him on. I am an environment where he slammed with my high school at the Muslim environment and many of my friends that the people whom we mean mean you really are nice arrows of the lease.

Right now I'm the complacent in Christ and become increased and so I want to name was that was pending with groupthink when it comes to relationship with the local salvation based have to read a lot in figure like the Bob is receiving them. A follow-up to become the bones of the loan. I found that the company to one of God believing it had not been defined by Jesus the son of God, and then you make a confession motion by 11. I forgot I'm salvation with very little time.

I want to jump in and try to clarify that I appreciate the picture. Yes, salvation does not occur.

Biblical salvation is not occur unless somebody embraces Jesus Christ as the Lord okay but Biblical salvation is more than that. Some Christians think business call. Salvation includes justification, reconciliation, regeneration, sanctification, transformation, service, obedience, and eventually glorification of all of those things are part of salvation because the word salvation refers to a restoration to a proper relation with God anointed upon proper relation with God without expensive those things.

Those are the things that God does and and that we do a minister of salvation is a relationship so opposite.

We do some things and God does things he does the things we can't possibly do for ourselves.

But I think a lot of people make of salvation are just thinking of how to get a ticket to heaven and the Bible really doesn't talk about tickets to have the Bible really doesn't speak of salvation. That way there is reference to heaven, but not very many. There's nothing the references in the Bible to going to heaven.

There are some so we know that we go to heaven but salvation isn't the same thing is just going to heaven. There are people in heaven who were never Christians who never regenerate. We know that because Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Moses and David and Joshua and the prophets are.

They never were. They never knew the name of Jesus. They never professed the name of Jesus as Lord. They never were born again in the sense the New Testament allows people to be born again and so I mean there are people in heaven who never became Christians, partly because there weren't any Christians on the planet when they were there and my suggestions. There are people on the planet. Now where Christianity has never reached them as a regular part of the world either.

The Gospels never preached or sadly some places the gospel has been preached very inadequately very wrongly represented, and so they might as well not been preached at all, and there are people who do not understand who Jesus is. Now I don't I don't say they can be saved through some of the religion I'm I might think that some of them could be saved in spite of being in another religion because Jesus died for everybody and anyone who will turn to God as sincerely and humbly like Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and David, Moses, did I think they'll probably receive mercy, because of what Jesus did can be saved without Jesus, but they might be saved without knowing much about Jesus, God's looking on the heart and we we often think well you know they can't be saved without confessing Jesus Lord I agree they can be saved by going to heaven is not equivalent to saved saved means that you are restored to God in a relationship that met that is found in the way you live you walk with God if that's a relationship with God when the prodigal son came home his salvation wasn't about going to heaven when he dies his salvation was not being restored to the proper relationship of submission and honoring his father and living his life that way. That salvation heaven follows when I when I got saved.

I became a follower of Jesus. When I die I go to heaven but it's becoming a follower of Jesus that is the restoration to a right relation with God. That's why I am saved now is not a game to be saved after I die.

I'm saved now so if services are Muslim saved our Mormon Savior are people of other religions that one know they're not saved in the biblical sense say they aren't following Jesus that salvation is not in right relation, but if you asked me will some of them be in heaven. Well, that's not for me to say, but there may be a possibility that some will be in heaven who never experience what we call the Bible calls salvation in the sense of knowing Jesus because there were people before Jesus came, who I believe are in heaven today. The Old Testament saints. There may be some people who in their lifetime, were Muslims or smokers or something else.

I'm not saying this is so bad. There's nothing about says it isn't. There may be people who never understood the gospel never heard it. And although their religion cannot save them their heart for God, might be counted like Abraham's faith in God is righteousness and because of Jesus, not without Jesus seen no one will be saved without Jesus. The question is really whether it will be saved by Jesus who didn't hear about Jay surgeon understand fully who he was when they were around. If they don't, they can't be saved in the biblical sense of her but they might end up in heaven.

Nonetheless, to salvation going and are not the same thing at this, which makes it so hard to communicate to people because evangelicals have often just assume saved means I'm going to have it. And so if you say well this person is in saved the 90s and are going to heaven well they might not be.

They may not be but there might be people who will be in heaven. There are Old Testament saints who were never saved in the full sense of this New Testament salvation of being brought into the body of Christ filled the Holy Spirit. You know, having been regenerated, living with the indwelling spirit. This all part of biblical salvation. That's it. It's a very comprehensive holistic thing that is involved when you are in relation with God. And so I believe that people of other religions do not have that relationship with God and therefore cannot experience in salvation, but when they die and it comes time for God to judge whether they should be condemned or not. It may be that some despite their wrong religions are. Despite their total lack of religion. If the heart was seeking God as you say, some I think you said that some Muslims are seeking God that they just they don't know Jesus therefore they're not saved but will they be in heaven. That's God to judge.

I don't know the hearts of any persons, and so I got actually that that comment that call last week that you're commenting on last week I got some emails about that from people who were confused. They thought I was seven Mormons and the Muslims. I guess because of their religion are safe.

I don't believe any religion says I don't think the Christian religion says I think being a Catholic or Lutheran or a very religious Baptist or Pentecostal. That's I can save anyone. Jesus saves not religions, so having a right religion or wrong religion. That's not what salvation is about its whether you're a lover of God, humbly submitted to him seeking his face especially being saved in the biblical sense is if you know Jesus in case your Lord and follow him. So that probably is confusing to people I know they're trying for myself and my listeners place because for many years in my youth is typical American evangelical who didn't know anything about salvation except you go to heaven when you die, and therefore I know I'm saying some things are California people, but that is what the Bible teaches. Just because I was American evangelical doesn't mean I knew what the Bible teaches anymore than being a Catholic in the Middle Ages means that they knew what the Bible teaches something traditions of various periods of church history in different places may be widely and universally accepted but doesn't mean that's what the Bible teaches. II suggest people listen to what the Bible says and find the final salvation is not equivalent to justification justification part of it.

So sanctification serves glorification sellers regeneration. So was a lot of the holistic walk with God as a subject, and child of God is what salvation is and of course that includes heaven when you die, and reigning with Christ and the new earth. When he comes back so that it's it's a very holistic task package, but when most people say will soon shall be saved, which is something I can't answer for anyone. They usually will they go to hell, or will they escape hell that's usually what savings are they saved from hell and frankly, the Bible says almost nothing on that subject.

Surprised look forward to your concurrence and see how much the Bible says about people going to hell, which says that people in heaven you will be surprised. It's hardly hardly brought up. It's in their I can think handful of passages but it's not the message New Testament is not even a message of salvation in the Bible to salvation is in the kingdom of God kingdom something you enter now becoming subject to when you direct Jesus because I still in the rain that's that's knew enough to enough people that probably is really some heads but I don't mean to do that but looking blonde.

I'm done here in 15 seconds, apologizing for the gala calls waiting you listen to the narrow path. Our website is the narrow path.com. We are listener supported help us out there the website. The narrow path.com. Let's talk again soon, tomorrow publishing