The Narrow Path 7/17

Good afternoon and welcome to the radio broadcast my name Steve Greg Moore live for an hour each week afternoon with our phone lines open for you to call if you have questions about the Bible or about the Christian faith or to call to dialogue with the host on some area where there may be part of this agreement will give you the phone number. The lines are full if you call this number in a few minutes.

Lines maybe open the number is 844-484-5737 that's 844-484-5737 and our first college is Vernon from Sacramento, California Vern and welcome to the narrow path and the next, thank you very much for taking like that before in the last; I needed and it was actually a question if you were under the impression that Satan could counterfeit agape love. And since Kendo, I thought about it and pondered it and contemplating everything I could do think he can, but that wasn't the kind of canned. Counterfeit religions naturally been running for my life. I got served when I was seven years old to Salvation Army these attributes be a couple blocks from her now and my my mother is 85.

She served the third. I haven't been the same since Willie took longer to be sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll very badly. I'm sorry. Can you. I can hear you but it's a lot of clicks and things like that but we got a question question is I had an early introduction to the Bible is God, rose, and it confused me because so many things that confuse me with other people get confused about between the father the son and the Holy Spirit roll and they know that I went to the so-called truth book with the Jones witnesses. I talked with the Mormons Witness what is your question with a question? How can ice no one question from another when it comes to religions. I have a difficult time with people because nobody's on the same page.

So David Jeremiah's study on the book of Revelation guy got to the end of it. I want to serve thoroughly with every moment. If I missed him back in the complaint against condensed perspective on revelation was accurate and true since you and the different perspective on the revelation and I'm wondering I don't know I listen Walter Martin and then Hank can a graph and so many perspectives important okay how can I not be confused well you have to confused you can remain quite safely on undecided on many issues. If you haven't been able to study something out to the point where you know that you have the Scripture fully on your side will then you can remain undecided until such a time as you have. I think a lot of people worry because there are so many things they haven't really sorted out yet that they almost feel like why should understand more things I do. What really was a very short list of things you need to understand the short list of things you need to understand that are absolutely essential times and right now, not tomorrow, is that Jesus is the Messiah Jesus is the Lord that he died for our sins, he rose from the dead is been exalted at the right hand of God. He's raining God commands all people to serve him and therefore we must serve him, knowing that is the main thing.

Now we also need to know that what he said is and you made reference to this earlier that agape love is what he requires of us. He expects us to love our love God and to love our neighbor as we love ourselves and if you know those things that's assignment enough for the time being that's that's a big assignment and work on that and you know, especially, I would say reading what Christ taught. So that because that's an expansion or an exposition on what it means to love your neighbor as you love yourself everything Jesus taught. Either is about loving God or loving your neighbor. And so the teaching of Jesus. Some of it will be difficult understand that not all Christians understand all the same, but you know if you're seeking God he will in due time lead you to all the understanding he wants to have about those things now notice none of those things have anything necessarily to do with that of the controversies about revelation or even about the Trinity.

Those are important things in their own way. I suppose, but they are not the things that are on the front burner. At least Jesus to put them on the front burner. Jesus didn't ever expound on the book of Revelation or on the Trinity to his disciples, some of the things Jesus said to form the basis obviously of our understanding of the Trinity, but he never sat down and expounded it.

I and we have no reason to believe that when Jesus ascended into heaven, the disciples he left behind had an understanding of the Trinity yet it was not the front burner issue for him. The front burner issue is humble yourself.

Don't be like the hypocrites. Love your neighbor sincerely put others ahead of you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and follow Jesus example and teachings in general.

Now that's lot easier than try to sort out the more esoteric things and I would say. Understanding how the Trinity works or what the book of Revelation saying is a much more esoteric kind of an issue. I'm not saying they're not important issues in their own way, but they're not the front burner issues as you follow Jesus. Just rest in him you having a relationship with him as Savior. And if you have relation with him.

He will teach his spirit will lead you into all truth, and it may take years and I take a lifetime.

You know I my views on revelation were 50 years ago, very much like those of David Jeremiah's now and it was really much much later in my life at least now I know it was probably 10 years after beginning a ministry that on my views changed to something more like what they are now they've been in transition.

In some ways. On some issues for the whole time. Life is is following Jesus with his yoke upon you and he said if you take my yoke upon you learn from me, which means they can be teaching you is your teacher, he gives you his spirit who did you into all truth. That's a lifetime pursuit you got the rest your life to understand those things, or even not to. If you don't understand any of those things in your lifetime you will understand them later. After done here.

The real question is how will it make a difference in your life.

How will your love for God or love your brother or your faithful following of Christ be any different if you understand revelation one way or another were few explain the Trinity, one way or another. I don't really understand how how either some such thing, or similar esoteric matters which people do get very fascinated with haiku nestling.

For example, or whatever you know those kind of house I can have an impact on you pleasing Jesus pleasing God. I think sometimes we want to have understanding so that we can please others and show that we have mastered the points that they think are important for us to know or maybe just to please ourselves because we don't like being uncertain about things, but being confused is never necessary. If there's something that is not clear in the Scripture, then God knows it's not clear and it must be one of those things that he didn't care to make clear the things that he wanted everyone to know him know right away are very clear and so I would say take the clear things and that rather than being confused about things are less clear. Just remain undecided. What's the difference between undecided and confused with your confused or your your mind is disordered.

Your mind is perplexed here, you're not content to you you you feel like you have to know something that you don't have the ability to know it yet. It's confusing, but to say listening to you know all sides that I can to evaluate and I'm I'm I haven't decided, so I'm undecided but I'm not in a hurry to know.

Unfortunately, although I study the Bible very intensively for my use to the present. I never felt in my spirit that I had to know all of these things right away and that's good thing because I didn't know them already. When I don't even know everything I want to know now so you know, the confusion comes from being too much in a hurry to understand things that aren't really that clear. If there clear you'd understand them easily.

And if God wanted you to have sent easily. He would've made the more clear think that's what we have to assume so do the thing that Jesus said that we should do and leave it to him to teach you other things at the rate that he wants you to know them and keep studying and meditating on the word.

I think you learn over over the years. I appreciate your call Jeffries, Monterey Park, welcome to the narrow path. Thanks for calling. Thank you for taking my call today. I have two questions in the seat and tell me if you take the second one first one is part is regarding first Henry the First and that the love of money on evil yeah you different translations that I came across some stated the root of all evil something is all kinds of evil and the kind is implied which rendering do you think is more accurate. I think I think all kinds of evil is is really the meaning although you write the words all kinds are not in the Greek, yet the term all evil can refer to all kinds of evil or it could refer alternately to every instance of evil.

Now we know that not every instance of evil is arises from a lot of money but all types of evil.

For example, take the 10 Commandments, the last minutes. You shall not covet match. There's your love of money right there at the the nine before that all are things that you can do faithfully. You can do it out of love for money. Having other gods well. Idolatry is covetousness. Paul said in Ephesians 55 you know working on the Sabbath when they were not allowed to work in the South that was sometimes broken because people wanted the pay of seven days, not six. And so they violated their Sabbath. That's a lot of money to take God's name in vain typically means to swear an oath wrongly, especially the court of law and lots of people and paid off to give false testimony.

Courts of his people took the name Lord in vain for the love of money, murder has been done for money. Adultery is been committed for money stealing certainly is been done to the love of money and bearing false witness.

Everything in the 10 Commandments except for the last commandment have been done at one time or another, and sometimes our through the motivation of that 10th commitment you shall not covet that you shall not covet kind of fun in a way is a capstone on the whole thing all kinds of evil, murder, adultery, theft of false testimony by dishonoring parents GCB gave an example of people who desire parents for love of money because they don't want to give their parent something they should want to keep it in so they say was dedicated more so you can have it so you know there's every kind of evil has been done for the love of money but not every instance of evil has certainly when a man cheats on his wife with another woman.

He may have no money motive in that it all and maybe an entirely different kind of temptation or when a man kills another man, he may not be doing it for money. There are hitmen who do but many men kill others without the concern for money all the just angry and they're taking up vengeance so there's a lot of lot of instances of evil that are not don't have their root in the love of money but one when you have the love of money you have to recognize it as something that is at the root of all kinds of misbehavior.

Virtually every category of sin has at some time or another been committed and and and regularly is committed due to the love of mice. I think those translators who have taken the original.

It says of the love of money is the root of all evil and they've added the terms the root of all kinds of evil are simply trying to clarify that Paul's not saying that every instance all evil things that ever have been done have been done for the love of money that would be an inaccurate statement. Of course, in the Bible would not necessarily support it.

It question with do you how much, if at all.

Do you think this innovation know the college. He had brought about the things that were seen today.

Kind of like that, you know, the microchip technology that in a one world currency in and out of and I'll take it? Air okay okay thank you that's that's a very interesting question here are dispensations that say because their views about proxy were correct. Of course, history is bound to go the way that that that was prophesied and looked. Lo and behold these things are happening so that their interpretation is correct, what you're asking is how much is it possible that the influence the dispensational expectation based on their interpretation maybe a faulty one, a prophecy how much has that influence the actual events themselves. I don't know why I cannot say I do know for example, dispensations were saying that God would make Israel a nation. In the end times and they were saying that before 1943 Center for a long time like first century before 1948 and lo and behold Israel did become a nation in 1948 course they were telling what year would be, they just anticipated it would become a nation in the point that they see our interpretations clearly correct because it happened we were saying this before happened yes but if you study the history of the Zionist movement and the movement that led to Israel becoming nation.

Many of the main players in the politics of England and America were highly influenced by dispensational teaching. That is, they believed that is really supposed becoming nation in the end times. Certainly the Balfour declaration is one of the things in England that is thought to be one of the first steps toward making the creation of the state of Israel. In modern times, and Balfour was a premillennial Christian man influenced by you know his view, prophecy. I don't think it's the only thing that enforcement but the fact that he expected it, and then he helped put it into motion does raise questions to what degree is this a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And when we ask about chips inserted in the hand door. Things like that or one world government, terror, cashless society, people talk about how much of this is been done because the ideas were put into people's heads by dispensational eschatology.

I cannot say I certainly cannot prove that any of it has been but I will say this, that Christianity has been the primary cultural influence and intellectual influence in the Western world for centuries, and therefore, even those who reject it today are often very familiar with Bible statements in Bible prophecy. For example, is there anyone that you would ever meet.

When they hear the word 666 number 66.

They don't immediately think all that's a bad number but of course they think that because the of course the revelation is well known. It's ever been represented in movies it's been represented in popular speech.

I mean, most people have at least some ancestors of been to church and and therefore you know there's a familiarity in the culture with things in the book of Revelation and in Bible prophecy, and of course the view Bible prophecy. Most people hurt if they've heard any, is that of the dispensations so that familiarity resides in our culture. How much that may have influenced the idea of a one world government or 00 cashless society.

Ike I cannot say I'm not saying it did, but I do know for example, because I've studied this very thoroughly that the nation of this will become a nation unto 48 was strongly influenced by dispensational's pushing this upon British and American governmental leaders and so that's at least one instance of dispensational temptation, proxy bring it about something or have a very strong influence me something about whether that's so of these other things are not.

We can only speculate, but it's an interesting question and I don't know that anyone can answer honestly know an awful lot more than I do about who first came up with some of these ideas in modern times.

Okay Abe from Port Orange, welcome to the narrow pathway for calling. Yes okay my Michael Mike Lane different between the meaning behind the worksheet and John got full mention of the in the parable of the sheep and goat and nap. Got a different okay well I mean in Matthew's gospel in Matthew 25 what you're referring to the sheep are of course the godly who are saved and the goats are those who are not saved. Similarly in John chapter 10 when Jesus and something the good Shepherd and his sheep. His sheep are in fact the godly hit near the disciples of Jesus and therefore they seem to be a one in the same now there is a slight wrinkle on this that some have suggested, and I don't know exactly how much validity there is but some of said that the sheep in the parable of the sheep and the goats are not the Christians, but they are people who have treated the Christians well because he says to the sheep. Inasmuch as you've done it to one of the least of these my brethren, you've done it to me that his brother and certainly other Christians. Jesus never left any doubt about that. Because, he said, who are my mother, who my brothers any emotion to his followers that these are my mother, my brothers and sisters. Those who do the will of my father in heaven are my mother's brother so very clearly that Jesus regards as his brethren.

Those who are his disciples. Likewise, it says in Hebrews chapter 2 concerning us that he has not ashamed to call us his brethren so we are his brothers, but then in the parable, there's sheep and there's goats and the goats did not treat his brethren well in the sheep did treat his brother well and for that reason. Some have suggested that the sheep are not the Christians, but the sheep are people who were kind to Christians. We know that Jesus, in another place when he sent his disciples out to minister. He said whoever you know receives a profit in the name of a prophet receives a profits reward whoever receives a righteous man in the name of righteous men receives a righteous man's reward, and he says, and whoever will so much as give you a cold cup of cold water in my name, he shall not receive, you should not lose his reward. Now here Jesus is the time of the day Christians going out preaching and then there's people who receive them or don't receive them as people who give them a cup of cold water or don't and there's a reward for those so there is at least a possibility that the sheep that are juxtaposed to the goats in Matthew 2531 and following that those may not be referencing Christian so much as people who have been kind to Christians are sympathetic toward Christians, but this would this will bring up theological questions that would be controversial and therefore I'm not going to insist upon it, but if there's any difference at all between the sheep in the parable of the sheep and the goats and at 35. On the one hand, and the sheep who are Jesus sheep in chapter 10 of John.

I would say the difference would have to live there that perhaps in the case the sheep and the goats. The sheep are not missing the same people as the Christians, but but their sympathizers, whereas Jesus said in John 10 that he sheep know his voice and follow him. So there clearly the sheep in that case are clearly Jesus disciples. Say that the sheep are our believers.

Now goats are unbelievers now. Would you agree with that.

Well, I mean that's the point I was just discussing I normally normally the view is that the sheep of the Christians in the goats. The non-Christians and that would be what I'd normally expect to hear the alternative that I that I was explaining I've heard from some sources and I have to say there's there are some things about the passages that could could support that. But I don't know that that's how it's mostly it's very possible that the sheep and his brethren. Although the in the parables where the pebble talks, it would seem otherwise it could be they are the same people who brethren in the sheep ranch same like talking about the end I returned his right so if ghosts are people. Now I get by with just a little bit like art. Maybe they got their people at the judgment or believing that people now believing that overthinking well you might be over to get it because you know these these persons don't become sheep or goats at the moment of the judgment they are sheep because in their lifetime.

He was hungry and and and and they fed him and he is negative, the clothing and the other forgot speak because in in their lifetime. They had not said or workload, the needy, and so forth. So Jesus is actually distinguishing between sheep and goats of the judgment based on what they did while they were still alive not on he walked away from there that's possible to get that that's entirely possible, mean, and frankly, many people who would be goats of the moment might become sheep before the day of judgment. Your rights I may not know it's not in this present life. Our fate is not static and it's not changeable, but you know whatever whatever their status at the time the judgment, this is what Jesus is describing okay thank you all right thank you call it a bus. All right, David from Camarillo, California. Welcome to the narrow path. Thanks for calling. Good we may have to take a break and I'll hold you over. I need to go ahead and see if you give me a question I you know what I I can see right now were the music to start about 10 seconds I think. So let me just put you on hold right now can write back to you after break all right. That way we can have a civil conversation. I you're listening to the narrow path radio broadcasts were halfway through the broadcast. Another half hour so don't go away. The narrow path is a listener supported ministry we pay for time on radio stations and when we can't do that, we drop radio stations were not on that anymore. Ron out in about 30 stations.

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I'll be back in 30 seconds. So stay tuned. As you know, the narrow path radio show is Bible radio that has nothing to sound everything to do the right thing and share with your family and friends.

Tell them to tune into the narrow count on this radio station narrow path.com where they will find topical audio teachings blog articles and diverse teachings on the radio shows you know listener supported Nero With Steve Greg share which you now back to the narrow and has radio broadcast. My name is Steve Greg and will live for another half hour taking your calls if you want to call with questions of the Bible of the Christian faith or with the alternate viewpoint from that of the host.

Feel free to call me at this number 844-484-5737 now that's tricky. I'll say it again for it. It's 844-484-5737 before the break we were talking to David from Camarillo, California, and we didn't even get started before he had to take the break, so I held him over and let's hear what you have, say, Dave, go ahead with the 10 930 and 10 question the description of God in connection now I'm about to become very gone template question about the cattle teaching person that had yeah I don't talk about people flying up to heaven, but I do talk about them being ever with the Lord's Jesus said he is with us always, and that we will always be with him and that if were not present in the body were present with the Lord. So there are statements that are behind my view, you said that my views against what the Bible clearly teaches about the debt. I don't believe it clearly teaches what your saying your view is of course when you die that you, a person is unconscious until the resurrection. I have no objection to that possibility.

I just don't see the Bible teaching that certainly not clearly now.

Yesterday were talking about Ecclesiastes 95 forces the dead know nothing and it sounded to me it as you set your question up like you're wondering how I could dare say that it's not that that's not a true statement when all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and the fact is, all Scripture. I agree with Paul is given by expression of God that does me that every word in Scripture is true. For example, Job's counselors we have chapter after chapter after chapter of them. Counseling Job and they're not telling the truth they're making a mistake.

They think that Job send that this is why it's happening to in the Bible itself in the opening chapters know that's not why was he was blameless because he was blameless that he was afflicted for no cause that's that's stated in the first two chapters and yet we have in almost 40 chapters, at least 20 something 30 chapters of his counselor same stuff that's wrong now. If you find a statement in the Bible that doesn't mean it's right you have to ask yourself who's saying this and am I supposed to understand this to be correct reading okay so so when Solomon says that he was away from God that he was searching for meaning and happiness in alcohol and in parties and the music and women and in philosophy and he was searching for meaning under the sun which we know he was away from God.

The second, King first Kings chapter 11 tells us, he departed from God. So in Ecclesiastes is telling us about that and he says in chapter 9 verse one.

I considered all this in my heart.

Okay that's past tense. I considered he didn't say he still thinks that way because but what by the time he would Ecclesiastes it looks like you'd come back around that he is he is giving his testimony about the mistakes he made when he is away from God. Just like we hear many people give such testing was done before they can okay, so it's not it's not it's not taken away from it being inspired Scripture. It's simply saying we have to take each inspired book for what it claims to be and and take it on his own terms. Okay about that.

He yes he just let me say this, you and I just have to see this differently because year when I'm reading Solomon's words and saying I thought this I thought that I thought this and then later at the end of the lease is not what's the conclusion here, God is keep his commands possesses the whole you know the duty of man.

We see he's come back to the Lord that he has spent many chapters telling us where he was at. He was away from God and he said I saw this I mean most of this is simply citation of his musings at that time. Now if if you want to think he was correct. At that time will let's line you can have that opinion and as I said I don't have a real problem with your view. Except I don't think the Bible teaches, but you know if if there's if soul sleep is correct as you think will then more power to assault, but if it's not correct, then what difference does it make the main thing I would say is that I get my view from Scripture and so do you. The differences the passages that you're taking your view from I think you're making assumptions about those passages that are incorrect and you think I'm making assumptions about them vinaigrette. So I guess the question comes down to you know who's who's seen it more clearly and I got a feeling no matter how long you and I talk about this with my phone lines full of people waiting to talk.

We could talk to for the rest the show and longer and near what would end up, you'd still be of the same opinion of now and I'd still be of the same opinion. I am up so I think it's better just to say was just registered.

We disagree about this time it didn't seem to come and impersonate people who are long been dead you say who's a good impersonate that way way way way way way way, where does it say he's going to do that. I'm not asking whether he could.

I'm asking where does it say that the devil is going to impersonate long dead people. I'm just curious words were you getting I don't see it in Scripture where is a fair question. I've read the okay and I fretted by the many many times. I've never seen anywhere that says the devil is going to impersonate dead peoples now. If it says that it's a fair question for you square since your affirming and unscented doesn't say that the easiest way for you to prove you right is to tell me where is if you can't do that to hold my view, that doesn't say that anywhere.

Okay thank you good alright let's talk to Paul from Peachtree city, Georgia hi Paula question about 1340. Inflation, different skill based on some kind of men's script different because some of the translation white accounting with Bibles therefore know this through beautifully proclaim forgiveness and sent to you. Although sounds like you couldn't put light put in right relationship with God to Moses law.

Most of them don't thing to include that last-minute and I'm wondering what you thought about that about if there were seven under the Old Testament that could not be forgiven them for summary them were saved under the old covenant or just like a provisional thing until well. There were there were scenes in the old covenant for which there is no sacrifice available. The sacrifices of the temple were for unintentional sins and and and for lesser sins, big sins, like murder and adultery and idolatry and kidnapping in witchcraft and those kinds things.

There was no sacrifice is that the penalty was death for that in their offering a sacrifice for it was not an option.

So under the law of Moses. There were sins for which you have no atonement but the truth is, nobody has ever really been saved because of animal sacrifices. Anyway animal sacrifice system was simply up a picture system to teach Israel about the need for an atonement which came in Christ so they were a type and shadow. They were a picture to to prepare the minds of Israel for the atoning work of Christ in my opinion.

So the animal sacrifices really never forgave sins. In fact, it says that in Hebrews chapter 10, it was impossible, or chapter 9 says it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. So is talk about the animal sacrifices.

The Old Testament sins have been forgiven in terms of people being reconciled to God in the Old Testament times the same way as any other time, through faith member David committed sins for which you cannot have any forgiveness under the sacrificial system.

He committed a murder and adultery. There is no forgiveness of sins like that through the through the law.

Yet God forgiven because he humbled himself and repented and did the things that God is looking for people to do are sinners and he said even David said after he repented of his sin that she be said you know God sacrifice and offering you did not desire or a soda brought it but the success of God is a broken and contrite spirit. You know so in the Old Testament as well as any other time. People were saved by grace due to their hearts being right toward God. Now if you are a Jew in your heart was right toward God, you would wish to obey God and that would and in times of Moses and following until the time of Christ that would involve keeping the law, including sacrifices, all of that you did it because God said to do it. Why did God say to do it. It wasn't because that's what saviors soul.

It was because that was what would prefigure an and look forward in help people to understand the nature of Christ's eventual future sacrifice so yeah there were there were sins that a person could not be forgiven for through the law of Moses. Now what Paul says here of course is even if there were such sins, you can still through Christ be justified from all these things away reads in the new King James is by him everyone who believes is justified from all the things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses, so I understand and remake a contrast there.

Of course with the fact that the law of Moses didn't cover everything but Christ's sacrifice does not subject to share thank you for your call to see Alex from Gardner, Massachusetts.

Welcome to the neuropathic for calling hi hi welcome young near Oak will you know a little low but anyway I will speak out my questions for furniture to be later short and may God bless you know my father, denial of human will show date make okay with leaders and that my question is a little so many nations over here but in the Jekyll filling gathering truth and Moslems and everybody else will take about 40,000 nations. Everybody claim another killing site usual spiritual incitement to my question is no. And the only one truth. Slowly, with so many troops over here and everybody divided himself, and I might do my moments, and though we here in the hallway. Not for sure what the different is between you and just a little Seventh-day Adventist and with somebody and okay let me take that one first and then will see another one okay for Saul. There is 40 or 40,000 or so I hear Protestant denominations and the first thing was is a God didn't start any of them God and start any denominations. God just Jesus started the kingdom he he was announced as King is enthroned as king at the right hand of God, and he didn't start any religions. There was already religion the Jews had that Jesus didn't start an alternative religion, or at least if he did he didn't say anything about it.

He didn't ever talk about starting a religion. His entire message was that the kingdom of God.

That was at hand that he was the king and that people are being called to submit to him the way people submit to the king. And that's more that has more of a political analogy than it then it sounds like a religious thing. Of course we worship our king and that is a religious activity but but Jesus didn't start a religious organization. He didn't start a denomination. He didn't start the Catholic or Protestant or the Eastern Orthodox church.

He started the kingdom of God among his disciples. Among those who responded to the preaching of the kingdom of God and they became his subjects and there began began to be an empire within the Roman Empire.

There is an empire Christ forming. And that's exactly Daniel the prophet said what happened in Daniel chapter 2 verse 44, and in other places the Old Testament anticipated this.

That's why Jesus when he came he said the time is fulfilled, because it had been predicted by the time had to elapse before its fulfillment.

Nurses, this is it. The times and fulfilled the kingdom of God is at hand repent therefore believe the gospel so there's nothing really very religious about any of that. What people do is they form religious systems and because people are people.

They don't all agree with each other and so but they get very emotionally attached their religious systems. Once they have a religious system.

They sometimes think they mistake that for following Jesus. They think that instead of being a follower of Jesus. It's important to be part of one of these systems and so you know lots of people been baptized as babies into certain systems of religion, and it never crosses their mind that this was follow Jesus because there in the church. Now there in the barren religious organization.

And this is like 180° the opposite direction of what Jesus did unfortunately live at a time where this is been assumed to be correct for almost 1500 years or so, maybe, and then end, of course, because people have different opinions. They start different religions now what I'm saying is, none of these religions have divine sanction. But there are people in most of them probably all of them who actually do follow Jesus, but there's people in all of them who don't. That is to say the real followers of Jesus are not identified by what religious group therein. Some of them don't go to any religious group in some go to several and there's lots of people in religious groups that don't follow Jesus.

So it's it's like a category error to say well you got a be in this religious denomination about religious innovation to be saved.

Salvation is nothing to do with being in a religious organization of any kind has to do with Jesus is no organization can save your soul. Only Jesus can do that in the end, the Bible says Paul said in Romans 10 nine if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised from the dead, you will be saved.

So the salvation comes from the Lordship of Christ been acknowledged both in our words and actions as we become followers of the king. We are then in his kingdom and that he didn't talk about any other group of people being saved, other than those in his kingdom. You know it's like someone mentioned earlier and earlier called travel the sheep and the goats. Well, what does he say to sheep your come you blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom which was prepared for you from the foundation of the world. So, I mean this is all about the kingdom.

This is not about religious groups so I can understand why it's confusing. I think the devil loves to confuse people about Christ and probably his most effective confusion method has been to get people to think of Jesus in terms of religious systems instead of in terms of a real relationship between the king and his follower the Lord and his disciple father and son. Is this the kind of things Jesus tolerated target religion. Talk about relationships like that. So anyway, I can see why you're confused, but that would be something I just said, ignore the fact that there's 40,000 denominations and focus on the one thing that's needful, which is Jesus. He said another question, I guess you're gone. Okay, thanks for calling Scott from Phoenix, Arizona. Welcome to the neuropathic for the program will return in and he came up with something which could do with it, believe which will adapt them judgment by people in two church which I can understand what bearing, I have been into the church anyway regardless because that God will bargain will why would they need to be terrified and my question is how would that affect someone who would not elect that if there being a parent I well like I don't know how to answer the second question so much but I think the first question is, is worthy of thinking about Calvinists do believe that some people from the moment they are born or conceived in the womb are already elect and they will inevitably be saved. It's inevitable they don't really have a choice in the matter because God made that choice about them before they were born they might try to resist God, they might choose to fight against him all their lives until they finally are hanging on a cross with two other guys and finally they their heartbreaks. They say Lord, remember me when you come in your kingdom and they prove themselves that they were elect all along, but they certainly seem not elect most the time before that.

But the Countess teaches that if you're like you're inevitably going to get saved before before your life is over and and if you're not elect. There's no way you can be saved but can't because again God in their system, religious systems, this is what once it's released I think confuse a lot of people in their system.

They believe that God has decided who cannot be saved and who will inevitably say if you're one of the elect. You will necessarily be saved. It has much less to do with your will, than anything then God and God's choice and and if you are not chosen by God if you don't want to be elect, then you can't get say there's no there's no possibility you're just stuck, you're going to go to hell or what this is in on the sovereign election of God. They say now you asked will then why would a Calvinists talk about scaring people with the judgment of God so that they get say. While this is very similar to the question of why do why do Calvinists recognize the need to preach the gospel or or to persuade any they say well gospel, God has ordained not only the ends. But the means.

That's how they answer this. They say God is earning the end of who will be saved and who will not is also ordained the means by which their saved and so think they're willing to recognize certain means by which God gets people to to convert like fear or like persuasion or things like that and so that's how they would answer because the question would arise in a book, but why would that be necessary. I mean if it is the will of God and not the will of the center that's going to determine whether they convert or not. What what does persuasion or fear or intimidation or threats. How does that impact anything because it's not there will that's going to determine anything you know. Now most Calvinists there's different kind, some believe that man has free will. And some believe that he does not. Some believe that God ordains every decision a person makes, and it's not a free will of the person really and they think it like Luther who have very similar views. Calvin because they're both Augustinians.

Luther thought that free will is a in an illusion. I believe Spurgeon who is a strong Calvinists said that free will was a hoax or something that isn't real, but most Calvinists today that I read and meet and talk to. They hold a different view than that they believe we do have free will, up two point they believe in what they call compatibility compatible is him it's called there's a compatible listed view free will, which means to them that we have free will. But it it's only excised compatible with the will of God. So, in God's decree, which I don't really understand why they would call that free will and mean free will usually means at least most people would understand the term to mean I'm I have a choice to make and I'm free to make one choice or another, but but they would say what you don't have the choice to repent and become a Christian unless you're one of the elect will that I don't have free will write and and if I am elect. I don't even have the choice to reject Christ.

Ultimately I'm going to inevitably be made to believe this is that there is no way out of this. So if my will is not really the determiner.

Why do I need to be persuaded. Why do I need to beef afraid of judgment. Why don't need any of those things to turn to God that why doesn't God just do that since he's the one who does it will why does he need any means to persuade me when I don't have to make the decision myself. Anyway, it's to my mind it doesn't make much sense in many things about the Calvinists you don't and that's one reason that the church fathers rejected it for the first 400 years they they were familiar with these doctrines, but they didn't hold them as Christian doctrines may help them to be Manichaean doctrines which is a heresy, it wasn't until a Manichaean became a Christian philosopher and influence the church more than any other person, Manning Augustine that these documents were brought into Christianity and they became normative in both Catholic and the reformed churches amount of time here, but I hope that me put some perspective on it. It's a good question, listening to the narrow path radio broadcast.

My name is Steve Greg were on Monday through Friday at the same time and we are listener supported you'd like to help us stay on the air. You can write to the narrow path PO Box 1732 macula CA 92593 or go to our website. The narrow path.com thanks for joining us. Have a good weekend and we'll talk again Monday. Lord willing