An Interview with Eric Metaxas

About to talk with Eric metastasis about his best-selling blockbuster new book on Martin Luther's time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Many have been now great anticipation for the release of Erica Texas is new book on Martin Luther and it is already a blockbuster book. It is a New York Times bestseller. It is getting amazing reviews like this Bonhoeffer book did and I did. I downloaded the book myself so I could have it on Kindle. Even though we normally get a free hard copy from the publisher. I want to have it so I could read it for myself on my E reader and Eric has an incredible gift to do great research within to be a storyteller and then to come with great spiritual insight. So we have a great talk with Eric were going to unfold. Martin Luther I think you learned things I prepared to learn things that I didn't know before. One interesting thing I wrote an article posted yesterday on what Martin Luther and Donald Trump have in common and I just shot a note to Eric Kate. FYI, you might be interested in this and he wrote back immediately and said I was writing an article with the exact exact same title. He was working on what he didn't get to finish it though, but he was working on an article with the exact same title. Now I knew that with this book just coming out in time for the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. I knew that his schedule be totally slam suddenly want to ask him to come on the air until it cleared, but it so happened that he had the slot open so so glad to bring Eric on I get to interview the master interviewer metal. He is a New York Times best-selling author.

He's also a host of the nationally syndicated radio show, the Eric metastasis show and leads the Socrates and the city meetings in New York City's done that for many years. Hey Eric, welcome to my broadcast this time.

Great to have Jan all man, Mike, what an honor. I love the I love you and observe you and lick you for years and it is great to call you friend.

Great talking about important stuff whether my program or in your program yeah well it's it's it's my own entirely to have Jan hey Eric, are you surprised by the supernatural favor that's been on your writing center. Your humble guy know you work really hard at these books, but you surprised to see how how God use them well, it's a funny thing. If the combination of being well how I put it it's not really that arms ride, but neither do I take it for granted. I think that the feeling that I feel is gratitude I feel profound gratitude to the Lord because for many years. I would not really successful. I was really struggling as a writer trying to get my name out there trying to know what kind of think that it wasn't really working well I mean I wasn't dying but I was I was really struggling and so when the Bonhoeffer book it the way it did.

I was just flooded with gratitude to God because it really had been a hard long all so anytime I go on the road and I meet people that they that they were ever in my books in my book that affected them remotely look radio show and that I it means so much to me. It just rolls me, though I I'm just grateful to God that I want him to use me and as he is using me.

I am I'm full of joy and gratitude. There's no doubt about it. Absolutely yeah well I'm I'm thrilled Eric that you cease using you. I was just telling the Lord earlier how thrilled I am to see success on your books but not just the success the impact that they're having all right this is just to whet your appetite will be right back. I'm going to dive in to Eric metastasis blockbuster new book on Martin loser. Why did this man effectively change Western world. While the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown, Eric. We know all too well that there's a massive amount of literature on Martin Luther. He's one of the most studied characters of the last 500 years. Why did you feel it was important to write a new biography of Martin Luther. All right, it looks it looks like something just happen there and we we lost Eric he didn't drop. It's not that he's afraid to answer the question but somehow with both of us doing daily radio shows.

In fact, his second hours on of subs who prerecord our season two places at once. Right now, but somehow the call dropped out. We are reconnecting with Eric right now. I did not get intimidated by my question, but we are reconnecting now to radio hosts having a hard time connecting but something very interesting is that most of us who are followers of Jesus think of Martin Luther, primarily in religious terms. In other words, the Protestant Reformation.

The break between Protestantism and Catholicism right we we think of those things, or we think about illusory or's translation of the Bible in the Bible out to people in conjunction with the printing press, or things like that, but the impact and influence of Luther was far beyond that and and Eric lays that out. The introduction to his book. He refers to Luther as pastor rebel profit and monk. And what's really fascinating is he tells a story here about a Baptist pastor 1934, African-American Baptist pastor who traveled over to Germany was an international conference on Baptist pastor's name was Michael King at a five-year-old son named Michael King Junior this black pastor was so moved by what he heard about Martin Luther, he changed his name to Martin Luther king in the name of his son to Martin Luther King Jr., the impact of Martin Luther is larger than we might realize.

So Eric before we were so rudely interrupted. My question was this, you know, having done the research that there's a massive amount of literature on loser why did you feel the need to tell the story are fresh and to do fresh research of the question I get to vote.

First of all, I was convinced by my friend will I dedicate the book by the way market maker and Brent break borne by the president out your New York City me that because of the 500th anniversary that I needed to write a new biography.

Everything that but you know that the that the famous one written by Roland Bain came out like deer in the go to heaven if the really that long if that want to fight 1950 and at the one that they use typically and they were saying that if the devasting plane. As I looked into it I discovered that yes it first pointed like that so influential with shocking when you realize what came into the world as a result of his faith and courage stunning and and I didn't know and I'm always embarrassed when I learn things that I think. How did I not know that the night of passion itself. Everybody good, but the other side of it like that. If the bearing meaning for you area funny, crazy, and the larger-than-life character and I thought it would be nice after writing Bonhoeffer with with half a heart story, but what it was but don't do it for fun important. They can be firing but not raining is an entertaining Lori, I thought I why people have something under read meaningful important but it's also fun. The crazy story.

I included all kinds of benefits that I noticed when I got Larry some of the really funny, I thought it might enjoy reading the book of always have to be unnecessarily off.

Yeah loser. Certainly one of the most controversial and unusual figures and and and certainly will most unlikely figures and you mentioned in your book that that the story didn't necessarily have to happen though it's it's not that loser started out with his vision of I'm going to be the great reformer and I'm a take on the Catholic Church and even the culture and the mindset of of the day so give us just that the brief overview of his history and how it ends up that he becomes this giant figure in war history while you're right. One of the five Catholic radio program and that they will.

I have heard that I have heard that you think I really there's a lot of people have heard about Luther that simply not true when you look back and want to think that the idea that he wanted to break away from. Betty wanted to start the front of the church that simply not with the faithful son of the church was buying in a humble way through the proper channels on trying to back some change, but it was the kind of came to the end of the notice of problem but we need to talk about the boat. If you give people the background you never want to become a monkey was his father was the best businessman in the mining for the people always a Luther with more he was not sure if another. There's a whole bunch of things that I covered that you hear over and over and over there. Not true. Thinking a church recently in my wife that Violet became a heavy think back about Luther on the on the big screen. You know on the left of the right.

They want to open about Luther being more and in my pocket. I made it clear like that. Not true and she's not for his father with the best businessman in the mining business and wanted it done to help him in the business and so he wanted the genius of the sun to go to find full go to university with the fan did not they were not able to study the universe was able to brilliant go to university law and combat on the Montville to help his father the family for, but something strange happened.

Luther, there's always a story that with a lightning storm that forced them to pray monk got cleared and he blurts out about a thing. And if you save me a Book-of-the-Month wall that's not exactly how it happened.

All of that did happen, but what if it was obviously is it real thinking over the year about God, about salvation about hell became more and more convinced that he cannot go and study law that that there was a call on his life. Somehow, you need to become about now is not something a puppy with head one day in 1505. While he encounters the thunderstorm note July 15 05 Betty for turning back to the University to study the law and even a thunderstorm, and that the moment Betty make the doubt, think, and with the patron saint of minor boards out to her. If you say the applicable monkey was a step into hell go into eternity and and over any more fights to leave work without when he doesn't die. Decide okay I am going at the monastery.

Now I've made a vow to do it really enters the monastery and now starts the endless torturous path that of trying to climb the ladder God trying to pray hard trying to back in and bone all the thing we get closer to God to earn his way to heaven and we know people to do the kind of thing in the evangelical world. Yet they shrink the demo I got to do the and it can become about what you're doing, as opposed to about God's grace that we are very careful.

Luther get stuck in the mode of praying I got the card I got that you never felt the of God. He never felt the joy of God. It was always about God as the rim got together many Christians today possible to have that view of God like dear God will you have all of them you love them know that he loved you what you just try to think like to jump through hoops the life you want to Beat the hell Luther had that you any lacking, and it goes on and on and on and confessed bunched out before the characters of the book was real great and you could see that he was really a father figure. Luther find a help them in his relationship with God, anything you act like you take out a yak like that God loves you, but Luther didn't get it though. He finally starts to begin for the Scriptures that we all fail grade of court well know, nobody would Scriptures. There were no Bible. I mean imagine printing had just been invented though. Everything was written on scrolls and that was only have the ability the Bible was, rare thing that he start to study the Bible and he slowly but coolly I become more more familiar with it until one day around 15, seven. The reason Roman just to live by faith like that like a brick that it may, in what God has done that reconciled God. It is not what you it is not work is not your prayer is simple faith that Jesus has already done everything but doing that by saying just to just jump in this case we have right here.

We walk in the Lord with that don't realize how staggering that revelation was right back with architects by the light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael don't have his new book on Martin Luther get it, you'll be interested from the opening pages, you will be drawn in.

Eric is a master storyteller, but he does great research to back up what he is talking about and paints an incredible picture along the way. So Eric is telling us the story of Luther who reading Romans somewhere in 1517.

The light goes on.

This is a shocker being justified by faith. It it was a shocker in the culture and the church of the day and and Eric, I don't know that we have anything equivalent today that that compares to what Luther was dealing with in terms of the influence of the Catholic Church. The way the cultural or two things with the leadership the writer corporate mentality versus individual mentality can can you give us some feel of how radical it would be that to think that you got something new that anybody else doesn't see. Well, I think that there are people that walk around crippled with fear of hell because they think they got to do something and I don't know what to do. They keep thinking that somehow they are guilty, guilty, guilty, and the thing is like yes you are all you need to do is put your trust in Jesus. He died to save you from hell he got you know it's it's something that some people feel it but I don't deserve it. I don't deservingly keep somehow thinking. I've got to do something and if you really care about your salvation that will torture you. Now God loves us and he doesn't want us to be torture. He wants us to be comforted that he has done everything that's necessary. Luther lived in a time when nobody really believed that people really believe that I don't deserve hell I don't and I mean I do I don't deserve heaven and I don't know what's going happen to me but it doesn't look good. Luther was really tortured by that. So when he read in the Scriptures that it is his faith that it's only faith that saves us all we have to do is believe it just revolutionized everything for him.

He could not get his head around it and so this comes at the same time that he had decided that he needs to call for an academic debate on this thing called indulgences. The two are sort of related but not really indulgences is what kicked everything off and people said about people knew that the practice of indulgences was corrupted strictly what you give money to the church and you got to get a certificate and that you know it's like a like a free ticket out of purgatory or for you to get out of hell or whatever it is.

And Luther could see as a priest. This is corrupting the souls of the faithful are coming him in confession with the certificates that they paid for Jesus. This is not right. This is corrupting them in and making them cynical about God and about the church and we need to do something about it so he famously exactly 500 years ago mantles 95 theses, but debate points you nailed to the door a couple. The local church and it was really the local bulletin board, but he made up of Fitzroy bits this document and will document all it was a lot of stuff in my book by kind of I i.e. I guess I get to the point where I see what it really was. People always act as the winning nailed those that document to the door he would like sticking his finger in the pulp science saying this is true, and we need to deal with this. It really isn't true. He was a humble man of God, trying to invite people to have an academic debate posted in Latin to post this line is Latin, so it was not for everybody to read.

It was just for his fellow academics and for the elites and the whole point of it was not to get a conversation going, it was to have an academic debate, the theologians, the professionals will have a conversation and then it will work its way up and maybe the church will begin dealing with something, it needs to deal with. He never wanted to start a big raging controversy he would've been horrified at the idea and so he puts up this notice on the door of the church and people that we put on the door the church. That's really sticking in the Pope site well here's the issue. The local bulletin board was the church door. If you were missing a cat you would put you would put the notice on that bulletin board so right he puts it up there and in Long story short, all hell breaks loose. He becomes attacked, but it turns into this gigantic argument and have the argument goes on a non-Luther gets drawn out more and more to say other things, many of them having to do with what we just discussed this issue of grace versus work and it gets more and more out in the open and eventually the church excommunicate them and he kind of is out on his own and it it really was as a result of the church behaving in a way that was not appropriate and I was that Luther was hoping that there to give them a fair hearing and that they'll say, by the way, thank you very much. We needed this kit to hear about these things we are going to deal with it. Instead, they basically said to him, you need to shut up your trouble and it's a sad thing because to get back your initial question he didn't need to go this way, the Reformation did not need to happen this way is because because all kinds of division it's sort of.

It is a pity, but it really is because with the church hierarchy was unable to hear his criticism. It just got ugly real quick and I got I hand the next thing you know you're not getting the two people back to the bargaining table. I just got about a minute and 1/2 before the break here, but what was it in your view as you look at Luther being an academic.

Being a reluctant figure it's it's a lead. This new movement. What is it that gave him the courage to stand when he was basically told to stand down, but by every authority figure that he would write to be at secular or religious standdown. What is it that caused them to stand. Pretty simple, Mike. I think it simply, this new that what God thought was far more important than what people thought and he thought even if they kill me which they were going to do. He said I don't care I got to speak the truth, God will hold me responsible if I just tell them what they want to hear to save my life.

I've got to speak the truth. God will back me up. It's an amazing moment in the history of the world because he could have just said listen, I was a little hasty yeah I'm sorry I recant everything and he can walk out of there but he couldn't do it any wasn't like proud like beating his chest.

He was humbly before God saying I care what God thinks of what I say and and I fear God more than I fear man now. He lived it.

He was going to be killed, but he says I really trust God. We need to get to a place were we trust God that much and know that God wants us to speak the truth.

I mean it's an amazing thing to see this hero of the faith live out his faith face down death and all kinds of stuff but he was willing to do it and I have to say it's an inspiration yeah and in the interesting thing is is often happens with a reforming type of movement that the more you begin to recognize their problems. It's like peeling an onion and and then there is a breach the differences with the Catholic Church of the day they become deeper and deeper and deeper.

The divide becomes deeper and the differences become comeback want to talk about changes that Martin Luther made of the world, even beyond the religious debate about the blemishes. What about laws of this will change Martin Luther all that we come back. It's the line of fire with your host activist and author, international and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown is a man God and change the world more was the man that is written now a new definitive biography of Martin Luther that would be Eric my taxes, my guest right now on the line of fire Eric you not only speak of Luther and God you speak of looser and the world it in what ways that the most fundamental wide-ranging ways did looser literally change the Western world. Well, that's another one of these questions where you real when I realized that I couldn't believe it. That… I mean, let's follow the doctors we say Luther, but it's really the gospel of Jesus. But yet is that Luther bring the gospel of Jesus Christ into history in a new way. For example, if you preach that we are all equal in God's sight, and they were all responsible before God equally right. That means that if some religious leader is telling me something that's not true I have a responsibility before God to stick to the truth, not what the guys telling me Luther finds himself in the position where you he says I'm being told one thing, but I know according to the word of God according to the Bible that that's wrong. I gotta stick with what I know is true. Once you do that you're sending a message to everybody that we are all equal in God's eyes. Just because somebody has authority over you, whether spiritual authority or governmental authority. You can't understand God is over both of you.

Once you understand that God is over both of you. You hold that authority figure accountable. You don't say that authority figures like God. They determine right and wrong. In truth, know you have to buy into what is right and wrong. If you don't, you know, you may want to go to a different church, you may want to speak up against what is happening. The moment that happens in history, like the whole world was North Korea. You have a state in the church of determining what is true and then suddenly people come up and they say wait a second. I think that there's some problems here. The moment that idea that the individual could speak truth to power the whole world changed. Suddenly you get plural you get the diversity right you you have Protestant areas and Catholic areas. Now you have. It's like a free market of ideas you agree with the trailer front of the right to individually isolate them from the Army.

A lot of bad stuff can come out of the Corelle and subjective views of truth. We know everybody's got a view of the Bible or whatever.

Now that they they don't know we listen to anybody but the point is that you have freedom you have the right to be wrong. You have the right to be right now. You have true freedom in those days everybody was told this is what you must believe lead to American-style self-government. It led to liberty led to religious liberty. Everything that we have in the modern world, for good and for ill came from Martin Luther bringing the gospel of Jesus Christ into history in a way that for 15 centuries. It had not been in history and it just gives us everything. It's it's an amazing amazing moment and it happened exactly 500 years ago yesterday at this whole thing was kicked off and again that's why I wrote the book is the 500 anniversary so it's kind of exciting. Yeah, and we just got 40 seconds before the break. You have a deadline of the swing when your friend suggested that you should write and then it was suggest you should get it out before this time to talk like that. Did you like the deadline and I know I always I always do my guy. I work better with the deadline. This I hear a book like this.

There's so much you can work for years and years and years and his average attendance of the fact that I had to get the book done by a certain time. You know it kind of. It focuses you and I think I'm I'm very very happy the way it turned out because I did find some new things. When we come back I'll tell you one thing I discovered that no one ever wrote about before and it is mind blowing you if you read the book you know about it, but I would love to tell the audience because it's just no one's ever mentioned before, you want to tell you what I started reading the book.

I haven't finished yet. So find out I I am not going anywhere I be right back with Eric and then take a few minutes to talk about how can God use a man was so flawed taxes. The book Martin Luther will light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown line of fire now going to 866-34-TRUTH. Jim is Dr. Michael Brown thank you so much for with us today will have our entire interview with Erica taxes online for you later to listen to Esther to Brown the Lord to connect with us in all different points if you don't have the book yet get it, Martin Luther, the man who rediscovered God and change the world.

If you're unsure about getting just look at the reviews of the book from scholars from media folks like you. You and others. I was thrilled I was thanking God for for the scholarship behind this book for the work Eric put in and for the impact that it's certainly going to have a right Eric you tell us something that most of us have never known before about Martin Luther role your sidling unless you read my book.

I I've never read it anywhere and I read, books on Luther, but when I did research for my book and you. You'll get this because you believe that the Holy Spirit can lead us at times I say I started writing the book and the first thing I bumped into with the doctor we don't know what year he was born, nobody can prove that he was born in 1483 that seems most likely.

But it could be 1484 could be 1482. We actually don't know but he was born on November 10. So let's say was 1483 to November 10 and the next day he is taken to a church 100 yards from the house and baptize because they feared that if a child dies without being baptized he will go to hell forever. Imagine living with that, fear right so he's baptize and what day is November 11. Always St. Martin's date of the feast day of St. Martin in the Catholic Church so they named Martin, I know. Let's move on with the story, but I actually felt like the Holy Spirit must've been nudging me I didn't know at the time of the Holy Spirit was a weird nudging like looking to St. Maarten and I Thought oh well why Meetup's name was Barney. If his name was Fred. Like why does his name right but it's almost like I had a sense that there's something prophetic in his name, so I thought well and you look at it and by the way love to teach my my reader, you know, if you're reading a book you will learn a lot of stuff that I thought would be fun to learn who is St. Maarten who was he named after the Martin Luther was named after St. Maarten.

I look up St. Maarten lived in the early 400. He was a Roman citizen. He became a serious Christian early in life against his parents wishes. So he becomes a devout Christian and he's enlisted in the Roman army, but they didn't see any battles. They were just, keeping the peace or whatever, but at some point in a place called morbid tomatoes. He's called to fight and he refuses to fight he says I might stand for Christ.

I will not kill all going to the battle but I will not kill. So the big thing and you know he is really facing death because if you say to the Roman army in the 420, whatever year was that I'm knocking a fight. You know that that you're standing up against the Emperor.

How dare you what he takes a stand for Christ and he lives and then he becomes a monk in his most famous moment in his life is the stand he took in his place called morbid tomatoes for Christ against the Emperor against the roaming out the big things. I look at the go that's interesting and I realize that there's a weird parallel because you have Martin Luther's most famous moment it's not nailing 95 theses is what happened four years later. Four years later, in 1521, is what we call the diet of worms.

The famous diet of worms. The ugly name is a German city called forms we pronounce at worms but in the city of warms. They had a you like a conference of all of the leaders in the Empire every prints every Duke every archbishop they all gathered once a year at Ed like a Congress, right, and they called it diet that this a weird Latin. Worms were a little Latin word to start the diet of worms and it was at that place that Luther takes his stand for Christ faces death and lives and it is most famous moment at the moment. He said here I stand I can do no other. So it's his moment that when you look at this the life of Luther that is the moment where he takes a stand for Christ faces death and lives and become famous as a Christian. Okay, so I thought were curious parallel Martin of Tours in 400 something and Luther in 15 2111 centuries later had a very similar experience one is standing in front of the holy Roman Emperor. The other one standing. If you know it in front of the Roman empire and then this is where my jaw dropped. Luther took his stand in the place we call worms. Germany has anybody ever heard of warms Germany for any other reason that Lou took it out in their it's not like a major city. It's not like London or Paris direction. It is worms Germany okay so what happens in worms Germany so I look up Martin of Tours 1100 years earlier took his stand in a place called morbid tomatoes where the heck is morbid tomatoes. I look it up it says modern day worms. Germany scurries is that not what a miracle. And if any body is not blown away. You think you mean that God prophetically spoke into history in such a way that it took until the 21st century. Did anybody notice this, I've never heard anyone say this, I read all the stuff on Luther. I discovered that my jaw dropped.

I said God spoke into history. He ordained this that this man would be born in a certain date, named after someone 11 centuries earlier who happened to take his stand for Christ that made them famous in the same place that Martin Luther 30 something years in the future would happen to take his that it is so crazy that was God's way of communicating me as an author to say Eric in this this is important and I just blew my mind on the first person that I know of that ever notices are told that story, but it puts a holy mark on this man's life yeah and in the and even the storyteller at the outset of the book of of Michael pastor Baptist pastor after merging. That's because I like having changing his name to Martin Luther and changing his five-year-old sons named to Martin Luther Martin Luther King Jr. so I'm in the marking of the name of the person extraordinary rights so here's here's of course the quandary that we have all this all you is that Martin Luther was a wrecking ball type of person that out that his his writings would make the worst of Donald Trump's tweets sound tame and I think you and Dennis Prager. Someone told me you compared that that are not.

I was like trumped up tense, yet I couldn't Luther make Donald Trump look like Mike pence right right exactly silks and of course my special intersection with Luther's is. His writings about the Jews which you devote a section in your in your book to know you writings but not just about the Jews about about others that you cringe and then some of his writings that when they would translate them from German that they would leave some things in Latin and put them in Latin because they didn't live in what the profanity it was.

So how is it I mean if a guy was that mightily used by God. And yet, on the other hand, was that carnal was just was the end of his life was. He sells at all was explained it. I well I don't really explain it, but what I do is I try to put it in context so that you can understand it better.

I mean there are people and you know in this culture there people that they're in love with finding the worm in the Apple they're in love with finding like he said this about the Jews. Therefore, we can ignore everything he ever said wait a second. If something is one plus one equals two. It doesn't matter what he thinks about the Jews.

One plus one equals two happens to be correct. Luther's a lot of correct stuff, but at the end of his life.

I mean there's many things to to take any content into account. First of all, you can't make what he said anything other than file. I mean, he said vile things about the joy but to put in context. He said incredibly vile things about everybody disagreed with you that equally vile things about the Pope and the Catholics. In fact worst things about the Pope and the Catholics. He said horrible things about the about Islam about the Turks. He said horrible things about his fellow Protestants, with whom he disagreed. He was vicious so he said vicious things about everybody. Now, why do we care about what he said about the Jews because of a thing called the Holocaust and because who was it who tells us all look what Luther said about the Jews. It was gamble, the Nazis said locally found that Luther wrote we can use this to make the average German think that their hero, Luther agreed with us now. By the way Luther did not agree with the Nazis. Whatever he wrote about the Jews is not equivalent to the Nazi view that that if you are racially Jewish your subhuman Luther never said any that he wrote a lot of positive stuff about the Jews. That of course the Nazis would never ever quote sure you have to understand that it was Goebbels and the Nazis very cynically finding the spin pamphlet that Luther wrote on the Jews. At the end of his life when he was very cranky and sick and say nasty things about everybody when you put it all in context. It's not nearly as bad as people portray doesn't make it wonderful when you read it.

It's embarrassing, but the other thing that's important understand is he didn't believe in religious liberty. Even though what he did brought religious liberty into the world, Luther himself was living at a time when whatever your territory was that's what you were none which he fought for the ability to be Protestant, but he didn't fight for the ability that everybody can believe what they want so that you now in a situation where Catholics are killing Protestants Protestants are killing Catholics and then in Saxony, which was Protestant, and Luther was living there, they thought in the Jews by the way, let's get them out of Saxony so we can just be a Protestant. Now in our day we go that's violation agree to disagree. We can let Muslims and everybody dear, but in those days they didn't think that way. So it's kind of complicated. I and Eric with that we are out of time and get a little thanks for the wedding, our appetites gutless human. God bless you. Thanks Mike bye-bye is the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown and he has a whole section on Luther and the Jews. II put out a very strong statement yesterday about Luther's writings concerning the Jews just basically said, okay, here, here they are, what you did for yourself and feel the weight and gravity of them and of course, as I said in the video you haven't wants to just go to Esther to Brown.org and look at our digital library. If you haven't watched it I mention there clearly that skews me.

I mentioned clearly that Luther had earlier written in 1523, 20 years earlier of gracious book reaching out to Jewish people and so in Eric's book.

He has a whole section on Luther in the Jews a similar question one of the most bizarre episodes of Luther's life concerns his writings.

At the very end of his life on the subject of the Jews this: five centuries has been able to make sense of the worst of what he said, mainly because it flatly contradicts much of what he'd written on the subject. Earlier in his life.

In fact, early life Luther hope that the Reformation would help many Europeans you see that the Christians would so mistreated and revile them when on actual Christians at all but were merely Gentile hypocrites. In 1591, Rogers would ever consider converting the Christian to the Christian faith. Given the cruelty and enmity we wreak so we wreak on them. That is our behavior towards me clear my throat here.

All right, there we go that's better push the magic button to clear the throat at the same time so all that to say Eric wrestles with the issues in his book and in the air on the air and I was trying to put things in larger context regarding Luther my point in raising these issues about Luther is to recognize what happens when a wrong sociology gets turned loose because again for centuries, Lutherans either ignored his negative writings on the Jews and espoused his earlier writings, reaching out graciously and honoring the Jewish people or they actually repudiated several times in history.

This one before the Holocaust. Lutheran leaders repudiated his other writings concerning the Jews in their lives.

Other ugly writings about the Jews but the big offshoot of all of this is one danger wrong theology and to God using a very flawed human being. And yet God using him greatly.

My understand what my take away from this, as I look at my own life in our lives. Each of us individually and as I look, it's a Pres. Trump is an example of this. And remember, remember that Pres. Trump is being volatile in terms of being controversial in terms of writing things that upset people is is as is. Eric said his is like Mike pence when you compare Luther to trump so loser Trump is like Trump to Mike pence that paints a pretty vivid picture. I would say so what I look at is that God used his strengths, but the flipside of his strengths. The same bull in a china shop take on the world can't back down mentality right that we see with our presidents as well. If not channeled if not softened some of the flipside of it.

Then you can end up hurting people rather than helping them as of said sometimes the wrecking ball sometimes need a sledgehammer. Sometimes the scalpel right and and depends on what you're doing you don't do surgery with a sledgehammer you don't break the building down the scalpel. That's why for any of us with strong personalities or strong calling. Don't don't use as an excuse for your flaws and weaknesses right on send that to me because that speaks to me directly.

Don't don't point your blood so just maybe to do that this never excuse for sinful behavior in BC. Regrettably, some of the legacy Luther and why many Catholics reject loser duchesses theology. This behavior at the same time he was mightily used by God at the same time, he had an extraordinary impact on history at the same time many positive ways we wouldn't be here today if not for Martin Luther white friends. One quick announcement and then I just want to comment on the terrorist attack in New York City yesterday. Our goal funny page. If you've never visited there. Please take a moment and go to go fund me.com/ask Dr. Brown studio that's go fund me.calm/ask DR Brown studio. This short video you can watch there will give you an overview of what were doing and where your funds would go and you're really helping us put out high quality material you're helping us do things we've not been able to do before, and enabling us to give more things away at high quality for free to more people. We do it with your partnership so take a look at the video there. It's only two minutes long and then stand with us.

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Okay I finish radio yesterday had to do another interview was driving in my car when I got an email about the terrorist attack in New York City.

Nancy said something to be very striking last night. She said the coverage of this it is a fraction of say what happened with the shooting in Las Vegas. I understand that the number of casualties was was much much much much much much greater in Las Vegas. But the fact is we are getting so used to these things we are getting so used to the latest terrorist attack with the latest Islamic terror attack radical Islamic car attack in vehicle attack and is just almost becoming commonplace in all only eight people killed and 50 and 17 injured it is supposed to be overwhelmingly shocking and and yes this does remind us this was not someone who was radicalized while in the states I was talking to German Christians who work full-time with refugees in Germany and they say that many of them get radicalized once there in Germany and they realize it's not just you have automatic jobs or automatic state benefits and this and that end, and then it's not as easy as they're expecting it to be and then you get the radical voices sing as see the West system. No bad guys. They recruit them.

But in this case, the, the suspect from his Pakistan had been interviewed. What two years ago by fellow authorities for potential connections with terrorism and got in on a particular type of visa the Trump administration has wanted to be more strict with the diversity visa so always we want to be able to help legitimate refugees who are coming to our country looking to our country to start a new life to get away from extreme persecution and suffering and legitimately they want to become part of our country and it's a dream for them to be here. We want to do our best to keep our doors open to such people at the same time. Whatever we can do to improve our vetting.

We need to do it lives really are at stake you say I will how many people dive terrorist attacks in America compared to car wrecks or how many die of terrorist attacks compared to just and obesity are out. I understand but but nobody gets in the car with the intent of killing you, unless they are a terrorist. Okay, unless they are bent on destruction so yeah we do our best to prevent fatalities everywhere we can, but when we know someone is coming with the specific plan of trying to kill you.

We do our best to stop that. So let us improve our vetting.

However, we can let us tighten our borders and ending with the camel was the same time even more doors open refugees and challenging say church work together with the government. May God have mercy victims, their families, bring life back with you tomorrow