The Truth About NAR and 7 Mountain Theology

Going to separate fact from fiction today with your lawyer fire stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH events 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown hey folks, we are going to have a very important broadcast. Today this is Michael Brown you're listening to the line of fire. You set the record straight.

There's a lot of confusion out in certain portions of the church today about something called the NA are the new apostolic Reformation as well. As the subject of dominion is an and seven Mountain theology to talk about those things today and will take your calls, 866-34-TRUTH. I did write an article with some moral reflections and concerns with the release of the memo. You can read that by going to ask Dr. Brown.org and at the end of the show. I will share a few face related reflections on the outcome of the Super Bowl.

Did God help the Eagles win, but right now I want to talk to about the NAR and seven Mountain theology and I will explain why I'm bringing this up again a few things happen in the last couple of weeks last few days because of which this is on my mind again.

I was talking to a colleague of mine who is responsible for setting up large meeting taking place gobbling in April in Toronto featuring a number of us a number of leaders who been involved in recent revival movements, including John Kilpatrick, including Bill Johnson including John Arnott, and these are allegedly some of the some of the key leaders of the NAR. The new apostolic Reformation.

So I mentioned to this friend of mine who's one of the speakers as well. I said it's it's interesting that from some critics in circles. I'm getting a lot of flak for speaking at that, because of its association with the the NAR and he said what's that, of course, he never heard of it. I knew he never heard of it. What's that. I explained new apostolic Reformation. Oh, he needed know about that, then all maybe about a week before that I was in Des Moines Iowa. I was talking to a Christian friend. He's also a radio host.

He is politically astute he was.

He was involved with the cruise campaign and he said… At least he's a born-again believer committed Christian, educated guys… NAR thing. He said I heard about it. They thought Ted Cruz was part of it is about what is that. I explained to him then someone sent me a manuscript to look at of a particular book in this book was critiquing throughout the theology of the NAR and the activities of the NAR know and I sent you your your chasing shadows deal with the issues, but to make it onto this conspiratorial NAR thing is his medical. It reminds me of when we went cross country when my sister and I were kids, maybe she was 13, 14, maybe I was 10/11 we drove cross-country my mom and dad and a member. One way going back for storm in which we stopped in Texas and we went to a restaurant and my dad ordered a New York cut steak and remember saying I've lived in New York all my life I've never heard of a New York cut steak nothing since it was just something they recited Texas to sell steak cells New York cut the never heard of a New York, lived in New York all my life. It's the same thing this whole conspiratorial NAR which is everywhere taking over everywhere and and and if you deny your lying all all this is really quite amazing it's it's likely saying that all Southern Baptists are members of the Freemason society and that they are they are Baptist Freemasons and when they say when you talk a lesson. That's part of the denial. It's kinda crazy but let me explain exactly what I believe about the relevant issues. Okay everybody ready and then I'll explain the terms of the a lot of quotes I will reach you out alone put some things those of you watching to be able to follow along. Everyone else can catch you later on our YouTube channel asked Dr. Brown tell you exactly what I believe. I believe that since Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to heaven based on Ephesians 4 that there have been apostles, prophets, avenges pastors and teachers in every generation. I believe that they've been here for the good of the church and that my understanding of the Greek in Ephesians 4 is that these have been established in the church until we reach full maturity. Note the 12 apostles.

They are unique they wrote Scripture.

Their names are on the foundation stones of the new Jerusalem. No one has the authority of the 12 apostles today, but there will recall small a apostles.

The Greek is just emissaries. Barnabas, for example, is called an apostle. Acts 1414 and that these were people that had certain roles they were planters they were founders they were pioneers they were spiritual fathers to other movements and things like that. I believe we've had them through history, but we haven't called them apostles. So I always use same examples you know Hudson Taylor China inland Mission.

I look at him as a modern day apostle William Booth with his social outreach movement and Salvation Army's mission its early days, clearly preaching the gospel look at him as as a modern day apostle or apostle recent past. My friend Lisa part of an entity doesn't use any titles when he goes overseas and starts of the ministries he goes and helps the homeless and ministers to people. Nobody knows his name when he doesn't.

He's just there to serve, but is planted over 7000 churches in Greece. The unreached tribal regions installed for preach the gospel. Jesus appeared to him as he was saved. A look at him as a modern day apostle not into using titles.

I see this redundant.

I'd rather we didn't even put pastor for the people's names, but that's okay. It is identify, but it's recognizing a gift and calling I believe had prophets through our church history, but haven't always call the prophet still not writing Scripture, but just like prophets spoke in the New Testament and most with the road is not recorded in Scripture right near Paul's giving directions for prophecy and frustrations 14 first Thessalonians 5 and he says that we should seek the best gifts that we should earnestly seek prophecy never said we should stop doing that prophecy was that just good preaching.

These were inspired utterances from the Lord but not the word of God, not the Bible, all to be tested and then applied.

Accordingly, I believe had prophets through history. I believe in in the last generation.

Men like Francis Schaeffer and Chuck Colson were prophets. I believe they had prophetic insight. I believe they understood the times and spoke with the spirit was saying.

I believe we have that today. Some may say it in a more clear way the Holy Spirit is speaking this and that it has to be tested by others, but I do believe that we've had prophets through the ages so I feel it's helpful to recognize these gifts in our midst, so that we can best be edified, strengthen and then go serve others. Right I do not believe that there are apostles over regions that everyone is required to submit to that I believe is the teaching of Peter Wegner and what was called a is called the new apostolic Reformation rightly so that's an accurate description is will come to. I don't believe in that I believe everyone has to have an apostle.

I believe if you're pastoring a church and I started other churches, she just named yourself apostle right, but I recognize there are people there.

They are spiritual fathers there planters they are pioneers that have that apostolic sent by God calling not equal to the 12 I believe. I believe that for decades based on Scripture right in my understanding of church history.

I've never had formal involvement in what some of called the new apostolic Reformation and I'll explain the differences with the that's one thing of always believed as far as dominion is I don't believe that the church is supposed to take over before Jesus comes. I believe that our way is the way of the cross that we serve that as salt and light we seek to have influence in every area of society. Absolutely that's our role as salt and light so we see injustice. We confronted the early church had to deal with the issue of of leaving babies to die exposing babies to death and and this was a common practice in the ancient world. Let's see, ready you have a son had a daughter seated need another daughter to one daughters enough to take care of the household. The things you have another daughter just throw away what would you exposure to the elements, like with the wild animals devour put on some outward in the cold color whatever is commonly done will early Christians dealt with dislikes Christians like William Wilberforce dealt with the issue of slavery.

I believe we should be prophetic witnesses in that respect, I believe the whole body is to be prophetic look asked the second chapter says in the last days your sons and daughters will prophesy, so this is something that I fully expect that I believe the prophetic witness continues.

I believe the whole church in that sense should be prophetic and also I believe that we should influence society through the gospel that we should shine like lights were.

We are there so-called seven mountains that people spoken about with education in business and media entertainment. To the extent that we can be of influence student to the extent we can shine the light of the gospel in all these areas. Great.

To the extent we can be in the words of Dr. Martin Luther King, the moral conscience of society. Great.

But no, I don't believe that we are to take over that we will take over. I would oppose efforts to take over and I do not believe that our mandate is to bring the kingdom fully so that Jesus returns after a millennial kingdom as other Christians believe in the past.

I believe that we will preach the gospel through the world I believe will be a vast harvest of Jew and Gentile. I believe that the end of the age will be characterized by parallel extremes. Great outpouring of the Spirit must've salvation, great defection, great darkness, great deception all at the same side-by-side just like it's night and day in the world at the same time in different parts of the world. That's what we'll see over the earth spiritually.

That's what I personally believe right. I am unashamedly joyfully Pentecostal charismatic I speak in tongues.

Daily I pray for many people,' slain in the spirit.

I mean people who didn't know anything. I mean people who came into a meeting as mockers, but they let me pray for them.

After hearing the message, and next thing the Holy Spirit fell upon them, and they fell to the ground and and lay there shaking and weeping and got up born again. Yes, I've seen that as well. And yes I've obscene unusual manifestations of the spirit and and things that that art clearly in harmony with Scripture, but very unusual. I've seen all that but my focus is on preaching Jesus preaching repentance, drawing people to him. That's how I lived in the here's the deal. If I believed some of the things I'm accused of believing.

If I did, I joyfully say so. If there was this pervasive new apostolic Reformation, of which I was a leader, I would joyfully say so if if that the people that I work with and no work were all working together for this new apostolic Reformation go I would I say so without apology. Understand when Pastor John MacArthur had a strange conference. Strange fire conference that I felt moved on to write a book.

In response, called authentic fire so I have no problem taking respectful having respectful difference with with my brothers Lord, I have no problem whatsoever saying you think this is a nonbiblical practice. I believe it's biblical.

Let's discuss it no problem with that whatsoever.

So when I am denying certain things and not denying them because I'm lying about them and denying them because they are not true.

So you open us up. I will start to get into specific quotes, but for every mother wants to know what I believe about these things I have just lay them out for enough you have further questions or if you only want to.

If you believe the whole thing is a set tell you calling 86634 trees will be right back on file with the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown mountains theology and unison which overlap and are not all the same. Explain these terms, a bit more as we open things up. There's an article on Christianity today by Martin Wendell Jones and it was focusing on Bethel church in Redding, California and Bill Johnson is a friend leave.

We spent some time together.

Chris Fouts and executive pastor. There is a friend spent time with Chris as well. I don't agree with everything.

Bethel teaches or emphasizes, but I welcome them as brothers and respect the work that God has done in their midst. So in this article about Bethel. There's a quote that various critics believe Bethel to be instrumental in leading some Christians to embrace tenets of the new apostolic Reformation. They are a movement over dominion theology and a belief in the continuing ministries of apostles and prophets, alongside those of evangelist pastors and teachers, Bill Johnson is regularly listed as a normal leader. He believes the apostolic and prophetic ministries. But since the church does not have any official ties to the north dealt this was interesting. Bill is often considered to be one of the senior leaders of this movement so check this out in the article, Mark wondered, Jones asked him.

So what are your thoughts on the new apostolic Reformation. I ask I'm not completely clear on what it is that's Bill's response. I laugh with incredulity but he seemed sincere Dan fairly was the Dean of Bethel supernatural school of ministry will later say that he doesn't know about the NAR either, so both of these men know nobody is playing a game here. This is not something where you deny your part of a secret society.

It's what people say about Nomar is not accurate. You follow what I'm saying. If anybody would know it's like Bill Johnson is considered to be one of the leaders of it is I got I don't know exactly what you're talking but it's not that people are playing games.

Trust me this a world in which I live. The charismatic Pentecostal world. It's that there is this bizarre false narrative about this worldwide conspiratorial Nomar that is doing all these different things.

Everybody's part of and that one of the things you do with as you deny your involvement. It is just a myth.

I will very specifically in a little while. Tell you what I understand, nor to be and what nor is but it is not what the critics say and think I'm just trying to help dispel myths because people are chasing shadows is what they're doing this deal with issues. Let's have our differences, that's fine. But let's do it based on substance. Bill Johnson said this, I see my name on the list but if it's what I think it is all were saying is we want the culture around us to change Johnson's is for him that looks like a kingdom accrual of soft power in the world.

My job is this person is in pain. This person is broken. I step in and bring the kingdom, the dominion of Christ and the situation. In other words, from Bill's perspective and I don't I don't know that I sure office theology on the Senate. We've never talked about but from Bill's perspective, the diminished document is that Jesus is Lord is giving the Lordship of Jesus into each situation he finds through preaching the gospel and bring healing and salvation and deliverance not taking over the government. For example, where they are. Bethel gives I think it's high that their income to help the city, they, they, they, I think they ties to the city of Reading to it to say hey were here.

We want to serve you and how can we help the city better itself. That's their view of how advancing seltzer check this out unluckily for the websites up for two reasons. One, I don't give a publicity to, they are less reliable than the Babylon be if you been to the Babylon be. It's a satire site. The problem is that's meant to be funny.

These are not meant to be fun though I can't say across the board. Every thing they report is unreliable because I don't read the sites but people send me links when they read about me and I know in the right about me is bogus bogus nonsense ridiculous conspiratorial maths and they traced it all together so just to give you some quotes but this is allegedly one of the chief strategies of those involved with Nomar that we deny our involvement. Here is a look at this here's here's one quote. Like other new apostolic Reformation apostles Michael Brown has not been honest about his past in this series will demonstrate just how deceptive Brown has been about his involvement with the NAR for a few decades when we read that some team member Sen. and we were literally laughing out loud except feeling bad that people actually believe this again I will joyfully defend what I believe and practice, I got I got no hidden associations, a little fine on what know it's all public it's known and it's in my articles is in my books and my messages, here's here's a little when we expose Michael Brown as an apostle grew apostolic Reformation. Not only did he misrepresent as he lied about his involvement with new apostolic Reformation's apostolic role within the NAR cult. This is bogus as saying that I am a leader in the in the Freemasons that I am leaving and anti-Zionist movement in the Freeman Masons in the memory of Elvis Pressley. That statement is just as accurate as the one I gave her. Here's another one in October 2016 Michael Brown attempted to obscure the new apostolic Reformation was not broadcast was a circle and are of the same time we were in dialogue with him on Twitter yet because I was endowed with on Twitter's it will interact with you still hear your your anonymous website no idea who you are, what your credentials are which are standing is in the body. How can interact with her sleep hidden behind anonymity, but that any anyway. It would be fun. It would be funny if not for the fact that it's so sad right, here's here's another one recognizing the tactics of Nora apostolic ministries tactic one blatant lying and trickery business and amazingly diabolical strategy on the Senate the people intentionally diabolical. But isn't that the diabolical way I lie about you. I misrepresent you.

You say what you talk about Saha that exposes the fact that your light it. It's while business I pipe pity I from the heart before God. I pity these people for really believing what the right notice of giving the benefit of the doubt. I don't think there intentionally lying and misrepresenting I'm saying there that deceive that they actually think with their writing is accurate or has a scintilla of accuracy with our here's here's a website of debris in research and and it says this about, nor new apostolic Reformation, nor is it dominion this movement, which asserts that God is restoring lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of Prophet and apostle leading figures in the seemingly loosely organized movement claim that these prophets and apostles alone have the power and authority to execute God's plans and purpose on earth. They believe that they lay the foundation for global church governed by them. They place a greater emphasis on dreams and visions and extra-biblical revelation than they do on the Bible, claiming that the revealed teachings and reported experiences. Example trips to heaven face-to-face conversations with Jesus visits by angels cannot be proven by the old Scripture. Okay so everything stated here about, nor I differ with person that was my own beliefs. I do not subscribe to this. I do not believe in dominion is.. Never have I don't find the country in Scripture. I do not believe that apostles and prophets alone have the authority to execute God's judgment government on the earth, nor do I believe that apostles and prophets are supposed to rule some global church. I will believe that and of course I will place a greater emphasis on dreams and visions extra-big revelation than on the Bible but not only so none of my colleagues, I don't believe any of this either. That's the wild thing.

So if this is an accurate description of, nor will anybody was part of it.

Okay with.

If you take away some of the exaggeration. Yeah I will, I would say yes he Peter Wegner and and some of those he discipled, and that were part of his movement would hold to some of this but this is a typical exam. People believe this. That's why got associate with tech to crews reporting are you trying to take over the government printed it. It is nonsense. It is nonsense. If there are people who believe this. I know who they are right in these terms. That being said, if you take away some of the exaggeration. You then maybe some of us would see Peter Wegner taught would play with some of this but I personally reject every part of that as far as what I I am against that in my own life and practice and in your personal the last of six alleged hallmarks of an archer to the website unlocking to bring it up as a credibility issues nor denies the sufficiency of Scripture nor inherence may believe in the inerrancy and authority of the bow, but God's readout word is just not enough of them. Jesus sacrificial death for sins is not good enough. The promise of eternal life in heaven sake that that's that's idiocy and nonsense idiocy and nonsense, I will a single believer in the world that would agree with that. That would say that's an accurate representation of anything that they believe this is some of the bogus misinformation circulating about, nor and since it's the supposedly global movement.

Find me the quotes from recognized leaders in the body that would say anything of it anywhere near that. The fact is Jesus is everything we need. The word is everything we need and through the Lord, you have joy in the Lord his God give you joy this guy give you peace is all Jesus is not enough if you need joint who would even think like knowing relationship with God we have communion with the Lord.

We think that's wonderful.

But Jesus is all we ever need in this world, and forever, and God's word is the one and only living, breathing, authoritative word of God. End of subject is a debate on that.

Anyway, this is some of the blatant misrepresentation that's out there were separating fact from fiction today talking about new apostolic Reformation and these other issues, so let let's then listen to this one. I start the next segment want to take you two would see Peter Wegner himself said about this. He's the one that came up with the term new apostolic Reformation will read the quotes were he says why this is an article in charisma some years ago when some political leaders started referencing Nora so he wrote an article about it and I'll tell you what, I agree with in terms of what he wrote what I disagree with and then what I actually understand when I hear new apostolic Reformation. What I actually understand that to mean and who's actually involved with that which is a a small group of people, which does not represent the vast majority of charismatic Pentecostal growth affect us till you get the vast majority of charismatic Pentecostal in the world for the top leaders heard of this. Line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown will just read everything somebody close our social world and some will point to the protocols of the elders and sign synonymous real Rothschilds reloadable. The illuminati is real.

What we do the same thing the church we have these myths. These conspiratorial stories and big ones these days is, nor new apostolic Reformation is as heretical group that's taking over much of the church, especially the charismatic world and hold certain beliefs and those were part of it and neither involvement it is. It's is no more truth to that than the protocols of the Elders of scion accusing the Jews of having secret cabal of 300 leaders poised behind the scenes waiting to take over the world unless we want to separate fact from fiction today on the line to find at the end of this hour, so right. It's as we approach the top of the hour will give you a few thoughts about the Philadelphia Eagles and their victory over the New England Patriots are new apostolic Reformation who coined the term it was. See Peter Wegner a long time professor at Fuller seminary also a missionary before then and in a fairly complete article that was posted couple years back on charisma magazine. He said this, I read some extensive quotes from Peter Wegner.

The best I can discern the nor has become a tool in the hands of certain liberal opponents of the conservative candidates designed to discredit them on the basis of their friendship with certain Christian leaders supposedly affiliated with the nor to bolster this attempt.

They seek to accuse the nor of teaching false doctrine and pasted on the label of cult pace on the label of cult so Peter Wegner's addressing this because it was coming up in political discourse with some Republican candidates old report of Nora nor his dominion is trying to take over America right so here's what Peter Wegner says the nor is not an organization known controller carry card is no leader.

I've been called the founder, but that is not the case. One reason I might be seen as an intellectual godfather is that I might've been the first to observe the movement given given name to it and describe its characteristics as I saw them when this began to come together. Through my research, 1993 was professor of church growth at full theological seminary were taught for 30 years.

The roots of the nor Peter Wegner says go back to the beginning of the African independent church movement in 1900, the Chinese house church movement beginning in 1976 the US independent charismatic charismatic will begin in the 1970s and the Latin American grassroots church movement beginning around the same time I was neither the founder nor member of any of these movements. I was simply a professor who observed that they were the fastest growing churches in the respective regions that they had a number of common characteristics ceasing. I looked at all these different movements. Some of the most hundred years old and tried to describe them because they had certain characteristics. This is what Wegner was doing as a professor of church growth than missiology. So he says this.

If I was going to write about this phenomenal move of the Holy Spirit and had to given name. I tried post-denominational but soon dropped it because of the objections of many of my friends were denominational executives that in 1994, I tested new apostolic Reformation Reformation because the movant match the Protestant Reformation world impact apostolic because of all the changes the most radical one was apostolic governance, which I explained you time and new because several churches and denominations already carry the name apostolic, but they did not fit the nor pattern of the names of this movement, which are more or less synonymous with carbon your Pentecostal your charismatic independent or nondenominational. His emphasis now, here's what I've seen.

I've seen that you have this particular theology of, nor which Peter Wegner will articulate for us in a moment to read the article he Peter Wegner then you have the wider charismatic Pentecostal movement.

And then it all gets grouped together and then because others have grouped it together when you say no I'm not part of the oh yes, you will see their the ones that grouped it all together it's it's like you start the new Chinese restaurant at the food court of the mall and you joined the Italian restaurant that all fast food places the American and the Japanese in the desert place in all this and then everybody in the food court at the mall is now that there was some bad food in the Chinese restaurant.

Everybody in the food court. All of the food court of the Lord are all putting out that food notice that would happen. Someone grouped everyone together as if they were all the same restaurant but only one without bad food so if folks have valid issues with nor that's fine, let's define it.

Let's agree disagree. I have key issues which is why was never part of superior Wegner's organization. I respect him as a brother in the Lord that I had differences I did not recognize his apostolic authority or see him in that role with all respect to him. I did not believe he had the right to appoint apostolic leaders in different areas or anything like that. I didn't agree that the church is needed to be under apostolic leadership if it worked out that they had relations like that in there was a church planting movement.

They look to senior leader. Wonderful, wonderful account of a more organic thing the denominations do but but wonderful, great. If that's the way you relate and work things out. Fine, but I never agreed with some of the tenets, but with happiness. Critics have lumped it altogether and every day I met with nor north this nor that nor this nor that of serious counseling I'm hearing it from people art so specifically, he says this about dominion is the superior Wegner. This refers to the desire that some of my friends and I have to follow Jesus and to do what he wants. One of the things he does want he taught us to pray for the Lord's prayer, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. This means that we do our best to see that we know what we know is characteristic of heaven worked its way into the warp and woof of our society here on earth. Think of heaven when justice know poverty righteousness, peace, prosperity, no disease love no corruption of crime. The measuring of racism life you want when you like your city to display those characteristics, but wisdom and income from the first page of the Bible, God told Adam need to fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the C, etc. and believe in the whole human race would take dominion over the rest of creation. But Satan entered the picture succeeded in usurping items dominion for himself and became what Jesus calls the ruler of this world. John 1430 when Jesus came he brought the kingdom of God and he expects his kingdom minded people to take whatever action is needed to push back the long-standing kingdom of Satan and bring the peace and prosperity of his kingdom here on earth. This is what we mean by dominion is I don't agree with dominion. I understand what he's saying but we are not to rule over other people we serve other people through the gospel and take authority over demonic power.

Yes.

In that sense, while the children of Israel drove out the Canaanites. We are to drive out demons. We are to challenge intellectual strongholds. We are to challenge challenge worldly philosophical strongholds. We are to push back the forces of spiritual darkness in the name of Jesus as we go with him and by his authority and by his might, that we are to do but having said that, the idea of us taking over in any way I differ with strong now. Peter Wegner does say this theocracy. The usual meaning of theocracy is that a nation is run by authorized representatives of the church or its functional religious equivalent. Everyone I know Lenore would absolutely reject this idea. Thinking back to Constantine's failed experiment were some of the oppressive Islamic governments today so he is going out of his way to say we reject that we continue way to achieve dominion is not to become America's tele-member of the kingdom minded people and every one of the seven mountains, religion, family, education, government, media arts and entertainment and business that they can use their influence to create an environment in which the blessings and prosperity of the kingdom of God can permeate all areas of society so that's his position, not a theocracy, not Christians taking over and ruling over the world. Not that, but rather influencing every area of society with the gospel and then extra biblical revelation subject to the notion that God communicates directly with us. Suppose that everything that God wanted to reveal he revealed in the Bible. This cannot be true. However, because there's nothing in the Bible that says it is 66 books that actually took on a couple hundred years to reveal to the church which writing should be included in the Bible, which should not.

That is, extra biblical revelation. Even so, Catholics and Protestants still disagree on a number. Beyond that, I believe that prayer is to way we speak to God expecting to speak with us. We can hear God's voice euros reveals new things to profits. As we've seen one major governing the one major rule governing any revelation from God is that it cannot contradict what is already been written in the Bible they supplemented.

However, I don't like that, like that statement and that statement is not as exaggerated as some of the critics schismatic of the way they put it, but in point of fact, I don't like that statement. I would not say it like that to me that undercuts the authority of Scripture and does open the door to wrong type of revelatory messages or did I differ with it. Always have differed with it, never, for a split second thought in that particular way. Yes, I believe God communicates with a sibling speaks to us, leads us, guides us with the way that said, I find to be loose. And while I agree with him in renouncing theocracy. And while I agree that we should do our best to have a positive influence in society where we can for the gospel right yet a local school board and the school board's corrupt and you can get on the school board string things out great. You got poor and needy, in your society that that the governments overlooking you can minister to them and help them great. You can take a stand against unrighteousness in the media. Great. We are salt and light. We do those things, but our primary weapon changing societies, the preaching the gospel prayer and service. We understand right now just was fascinated one of the groups that is included as part of the new apostolic Reformation is IHOP international House of prayer in Kansas City, led by Mike Beck so they have a statement on their website. If you just type in IHOP. KC and NAR see the whole statement they never had a formal relationship with Peter Wegner. He never spoke to one of their events.

Okay, they don't agree in using titles like apostles and prophets in and have an elder-based government.

They recognize people with apostolic and prophetic gifts, but don't believe in using titles. They have an elder based leadership all right.

In addition to that they are premillennial they are pre-millennial. They believe, before the end of the eighth will be tremendous outpouring of judgment, and they categorically reject dominion is always have their hundreds and hundreds of their messages available that people can listen to is bold yes to accuse them of believing things they don't. And then when they deny call them liars. So here here's what IHOP KC teaches about dominion theology. We affirm that God's purposes for Jesus to come back to fully establish his kingdom over all the earth. After the second coming. The saints will rule the earth, under the leadership of Jesus Christ when he sets up his government on earth in Jerusalem and the millennial kingdom. We believe that believers in the Sager call to serve Jesus in many different spheres of society, including politics, to help establish righteousness and justice legislation is possible we are to seek to be salt and light. However, we do not believe that most of society will be Christianized before Jesus returns. We believe that all the nations will follow the Lord and obey his word after Jesus returns to establish is that millennial kingdom we deny that the church will take over all the governments of the earth before the return of Christ.

In this we would differ from others who hold to more of a triumphalist eschatology that many organs of government become Christianized for the return of Christ so they fundamentally different with keen our principles, yet they get accused of being part of Darlington either called liars that friends bearing false witness against Brooks. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown present. If you miss any part of today's to our website at Brown.listen to it podcast the work easiest thing. Just go to our YouTube channel. SK DR Brown on YouTube and it will be posted shortly after the show is over.

Not only so many of the quotes I've been reading on the year will actually have the transcript up for you to follow along on video right so let me break some things out. My understanding of new apostolic Reformation is this something that Peter Wegner coined as a large term describing a lot of charismatic growth around the world. However many of those people would not have shared the same theology that ensure that dominion is an theology. They did have some of them, the apostles, prophets, theology that he had that the Navy gave but then specifically he led a group of people that were part of a movement that believe the same thing that look to him as an apostolic leader, you could look at is a different denomination. Okay and I was never part of that and I never agreed with much of it. So that's fact that simple fact. If you want to call the whole modern Anacostia charismatic movement the new apostolic Reformation must call whatever you want okay to make up whatever term you want this of relevance to that juicy term that he specifically coined and now use it in a way that is going to fit some other conspirators for conspiratorial purpose.

Forget it.

That's not being ethical or honest right so that's one thing. Second thing, theocracy versus the mannerism versus amount theology theocracy is that clergy rules over nation imposes the law of God over that nation like say the Uranian ayatollahs are seeking to do in a wrong. We categorically reject theocracy. There will be a theocracy. When Jesus returns and he sets up the kingdom and God rules over the earth that he doesn't wonderful dominion is an is a term I don't like to use will not find me using it in a positive way. In any of my books. I don't like to use it because it can give the idea of us forcefully taking over bringing people under our authority.

So even though some don't use like that some use it in a better way.

I do not use the term in the never used us for seven amount theology of not mentioned it in my writing time.

I may have. I may have referred to some of the quote mountains in a recent book it. In the illustrated way.

But I've never use that actually. But here's here's the origin of just you know okay is this is something I say makes sense right so here's what's on cultural mountains and explains this in 1975, Bill Bright, founder of campus Crusade and Lauren Cunningham, founder of youth with a Mission had lunch together in Colorado. God simultaneously gave each of these change agents a message to give to the other during that same time Francis Schaeffer was given a similar message. That message was that if we are to impact any nation for Jesus Christ and we would have to affect the seven spheres are mountains of society that are the pillars of a society. The seven mountains are business, government, media arts and entertainment, education, the family religion. There are many subgroups under these main categories. About a month later, the Lord showed Francis Schaeffer the same thing. In essence, some of these three change agents were the battlefield was was here where culture would be won or lost. There are some mysteries of change agents to scale the mountain to help a new generation of change agents understand or distort that you could say religion should be its own category. That's just the role of the church that is the church with the point was, you have different areas of society are you a Christian businessman to try to have a positive impact in the business world to pray for the government or your elected official unofficial to the government-run of a positive impact. Are you involved with media I'm involved with media to try to get the gospel out media or change the culture when it was about arts and entertainment notes be salt and light in all these areas. If you want to affect a country.

See if you can make the gospel impact in all these areas I agree with that and it was Bill Bright is a Bill Bright was part of the NAR right Lauren Cunningham when did Peter Wegner said that he coined the term 1993 coined the term NAR if if I remember what he said properly.

Bill Bright and and and Lauren Cunningham came up with this idea felt from the Lord in 1975 and shortly after Francis Schaeffer's Francis Schaeffer secret apostles in our you see how crazy this is so this is something I think makes sense that wherever we are. We try to make a positive impact in your neighborhood school system, place of business, arts and entertainment right should the Devil have all the music to the devil have all the arts, so whatever we can do to advance the gospel great. But here's the most interesting thing of all, and in fact if we can skip down a pole. People I asked them on twitter and on Facebook to cable if we could skip down slide number nine I asked you believe that in order to fully impact the nation, the church should have influence in arts and entertainment business education, family, government, media is right for us to seek to make a positive impact in these realms and to me, that was one of the same question to ask. 81% said yes.

13% said no. 6% signature. Are they all secretly working for the NAR know what we want to make a positive impact through the gospel.

I did the same pole on Facebook so twitter at 1234 votes on Facebook I I same question and is almost identical results.

83%.

Yes, 17% no and that was the 1st to .3 thousand votes. When I when I took the screenshot. Now here's what's more interesting is that in the 1700s and 1800s. What was widely believed in America's post-millennial that the church through the preaching of the gospel would ultimately take over the whole world that the whole world would get converted and that Jesus would come at the and of the millennial kingdom.

This was held to by major Christian leaders in the 1800s here. There's an article by Stephen pointer on Christianity today about this and he says during most of the 19th century American Protestants believed they were living in special times that current events were hastening the coming of the kingdom of God earth hymns like the Battle hymn of the Republic became popular because they so well express this hope mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored he has loosed the fateful lightning of his terrible swift sword his truth is marching on. They saw it happening in their day undergirding this optimism. Pointer says was the doctrine of post-millennialism the belief that the second coming will take place after the millennium of blissful peace and prosperity for the church which would be ushered in by the divinely aided efforts of the church so they fit Jonathan Edwards and his men of his contemporaries believed that through the preaching of the gospel the whole world would get saved in the whole culture would change. It's it's very similar to a Dominion is an type of viewpoint, but even more comprehensive that through the preaching of the gospel the whole world will get say I'm not a post-millennialist. I'm not a post-millennialist.

It's possible that Bethel holds to put possibly Lisa mature. But if they do, rather than associating that with some secret in our agenda look look at historic post-millennialism that has his eschatology of optimism that the end a single Hopkin said will be a thousand to one saved versus on saved and if we could skip down to the quote. This is this Jonathan Edwards speaking Jonathan Edwards was a devoted student of Scripture, including the book of Revelation.

He also entertained fervent hopes that God might do something special on the people of New England. He was circumspect when revival broke out in his own congregation. 1730s but when all of New England was convulsed by spiritual awakening in the early 1740s.

He could not hold back is not unlikely that this work of God spirit that is so extraordinary and wonderful is the dawning released a prelude of that glorious work of God so often foretold in Scripture, and there are many things that make it probable that this work will begin in North America he thought the millennial kingdom would begin in North America and Charles Finney at the height of revivals thought the millennium could be here in three years I was in the Civil War – a lot of those hopes, but you can read a classic book on post-millennialism by Lorraine Bittner, one of the most respected Calvinist scholars of what two generations back and reading it years ago and think of others a lot to this, but ultimately rejecting it my own beliefs again to repeat or that there will be massive conversions of Jews and Gentiles before the end of the age of massive turning to God, but also massive apostasy massive deception the wrath of God being poured out on the sending world, God's people triumphing in the midst of suffering. That's what I believe that there will be parallel extremes at the end of the age so I would have different beliefs from many that would've been our leaders like to see Peter Wegner and others who hold to post-millennial views, some of whom are non-most of them historically have not been charismatics.

Charismatics have primarily been dispensational lists or pre-millennial believing in many believe in a pretrip rapture which I will personally but the vast majority of charismatics worldwide are premillennial settled believing Dominion is many believe that the earth is going to get worse and worse and worse before Jesus comes and some say, why even get involved with fighting the culture wars because everything's going down. So friends it's time we separate fact from fiction.

There is not a conspiratorial nor of which I and some of these others are part and we secretly deny there's artificial nor translation of the Bible there is a Lennar guide league guiding principle that you are part of it and then deny it and lie about it.

People are bearing false witness.

People are spreading misinformation of books have come out filled with misinformation, even after interviews is likely still don't get it. Those who hold to Dominion's theology. I differ with, but let's identify who they are as brothers and have our differences. Those who believe in certain things about apostolic and prophetic ministry under rule the church.

Let's identify who they are. I differ with that right. I respect these different ministries and different with them, but I'm not going to do is sit around and brand everyone a hell bound heretic because they differ and where there are loose views about extra biblical revelation, you better believe I'll address that plainly so that we understand what we believe about the sufficiency of Scripture and in my book, playing with holy fire, which finally enough.

Some critics are attacking have not read it to tell me what's can be in the book be surprised when you read it. I have a whole chapter on unaccountable prophecy. I have a whole chapter on mercenary profits. I have a whole chapter on abusive leaders. I have a whole chapter on superstar leaders. So we address abuses had been playing with holy farm but having separated crucifixion. Give me a favor obviously put a lot of time getting these quotes ready making sure we can be as clear as possible. Later today distribute this video widely distribute this podcast widely but truth triumph