A New Book on the Creator and the Cosmos

Get a fascinating interview today with astronomer you Ross about the creator and the cosmos for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown to look into the line of fire.

It's it's always fascinating friends to step back and look at the universe that God has created to step back and learn about the creator because of the creation and remember as a kid going to a planetarium you've done that and you sit down and and the ceiling with returning to you that the University look out you see the galaxies and while amazing the sources fascination. We haven't some years back. Nancy and I were watching as many videos as we could, talking about the universe the vastness of the subject and and you're trying to get a handle on the size of the but of course the brain breaks down to just doesn't work. It's too big it's too magnificent stew beyond us so I love to have the opportunity to talk to my colleague Dr. you Ross, founder and president of reasons to believe he is an astronomer and he is a committed follower of Jesus, so he brings together those two wonderful qualities of having scientific understanding of the universe is much as we can is finite human beings. And yet believing in and personally worshiping and following the God who made the universe and he has a brand-new book out the creator and the cosmos. How one astronomers investigations into both the cosmos and the Bible revealed him a more wondrous personal God than he could've ever imagined.

So without further ado, Dr. Ross, great to have you back with us on the line of fire providing why did you write this book of the many books you've written so far. What is it that prompted you to write this book, which seems almost like a summary of your life journey up to now walk back to your work aggression) that would occur in 25 years ago and redirected bringing out new regression demonstrate the biblical principle. Job but the more you study the record of nature, the more evident to bind for natural antiworker God and the fourth edition I got 80 new page of the content because in the left circle your group, an explosion of new discoveries in astronomy and physics that are strongly established for Christian. The reliability of the Bible statement about the universe now is one who works in this field regular.

You don't just to Christian ministry.

You and your team. Reasons to believe. Stay up-to-date with what's happening in scientific literature.

Would you say that it's become increasingly difficult to deny the creator of the universe with the more scientific evidence that we have here mainly one of the readers about broader aggression in order to make the point. I peer toward Dr. believer are now appearing nonempirical argument that the offender a putrid worldview. The reason is that the empirical evidence of no overwhelming factor must be God, the God of the Bible behind creating and divining the universe or benefit from appealing to think we can't measure And fame may be in the regions of ignorance for might be something weird going on that allows both overcurrent, everything we know and understand about the universe.

It's interesting we posted something on her asked Dr. Brown's Facebook page about God, the creator and someone who is a rocket scientist and atheist Ray friendly in Australia responded with imagined this and went into a whole multi-verse arguments in multiple universes, etc. etc. and and I sent the quote to a friend on a medical doctor whose post I had put on the Facebook page that prompted this response and he immediately said notice the opening word imagine.

So that's what you're saying that to just look at scientific fact which is what scientists are supposed to do because the facts point to creator there now having to speculate beyond the facts or the whole point.

We know what crude object of regret out group will never have absolute proof or anything we know something is particularly true if we believe that the more we learn about the subject stronger become be evident that effective crew error that happened at a rate of a factor of a thousand times per month. You can be assured that are true, and effort happening with the fine. Divine evident liberty increasing out for the universe. Our galaxy and our planet Earth authority victim increasing at a rate of about a factor of a thousand times per month, which is why I sure with skeptic are not persuaded today about the which way the evidence code. Is this the kind of thing that is trickling its way down into universities into college campuses into textbooks that kids are using in school, or is there a and an absolute resistance to acknowledge these things.

Trickling down her graduate victim astronomy level trickle-down part about going to take a while before get down to undergraduate by a notable Republic. One reason I brought the book out of the Morgan astronomers need to know about upping the general public need to be aware of the vacant deal of a lot of the counterfeiter being bandied about their lot and I appreciate that there other books of yours that you brought up to date are supplemented and I never looking at one of them about days of creation.

I thought I have this book and I looked at the one I was sent. I thought this is a much fatter book essay was creator and cosmos that that which is written now building on it's not that you have to go back and correct things. It's now you have far more evidence to support, which is written, so give us an example. Let's say you're talking to someone that's that's a serious skeptic there not a marker. There is seriously looking at evidence they really question a personal guardian and how we can really know if there's a creator. So what are some of the most striking are perhaps the most striking single example, you can give that you've added to your book to creator the cosmos documented in the book now entered your vision, and cosmology were now making measurements of one particular protrusion or better and to give an example.

The Bible talks about the universe comes from the beginning. I will continuously expand that beginning under laws of physics that are held constant by one of the log of the pervasive law decay or any for permitting and under that pervasive law decay a.k.a. defective law of thermodynamics must get colder and colder advocate bigger and bigger and so using the biblical statement knowing the age of the universe we can come up with typically predicted cooling curve for the universe and with new in the past few years the bottom or the come up with vision measurement of a past temperature state of universe they donated over 13 different Epoque and want to show you in the book of the biblically predicted cooling curve for the universe over the entire industry and overlapping that actual measurement that we astronomers made and you feed it the perfect fit between the measurement and what the Bible predicts when you see the Bible predicts will be predicting this fall. For example, you feed your eight places in Isaiah or to speak about God expanding the universe (Jeremiah and Joe let him play for the Bible talks about the basement beginning of the universe I Jeremiah 33 declares that the God doesn't change proof that he doesn't change look at the laws of the government heaven the earth that they don't change. It doesn't change Ecclesiastes speaks about the pervasive law decay Romans chapter 8, but the details of the entire universe have been subject to the pervasive law decay. So that's where we can get the big bang cosmology and I told my friends and economy in Frederick not.Albert Einstein or George LeMay traffic came up with the Big Bang model of universe that actually find it page of the Old Testament ever written more than 2000 years ago for thousands of years, the Bible, but it beat only book of philosophy, theology, or by that that we live in a continue expanding universe.

You know, there's this famous story of Robert Castro in his book and astronomer finds God and in the picture that's painted is the astronomer, climbs to the top of the mountain of knowledge and finds it theologian sitting up there with his Bible, but that's pretty much what you're saying and that even the idea of the law operate the universe operating on six principles that Einstein said it could be could be observable and and that there was mathematical precision to. It could possibly be argued that just over the period of billions of years that these laws and principles involved in that it was just kind of a necessity that things came together like this are publicly astronomer can directly observe farther away we look barter back in time.

And what I documented in the book that we've made observation of quasars galaxy far away 13 billion light years, and we measured the laws of physics and the specter that we see from these objects about laws of physics measured to be identical to the laws of physically measuring the oratory. 16. Placement of the gospel so demonstrate that the biblical statement allows a critical change. Measurements show that what the Bible for thousands of years ago is indeed correct. Extraordinary extraordinary and Stephen Hawking's brilliant physicist, now deceased, hopefully in his last moments turn to the Lord.

Only God knows, but Stephen Hawking said once made a statement for me is a totally nonscientific person. I was baffled by, and John Lennox a great scientific thinker took issue with it and again, for I knew there must be more to it because of Hawking's brilliance, but he basically said that that the universe was created out of nothing, but that the law of gravity. Somehow existed. I could make head or tail of that. How could someone so brilliant make a statement like that while I devote all of chapter 12 of the bookkeeping arcing research over white guy in the philosophical and theological implications about what he discovered.

Matter fact were now giving a chapter away for free to go to Reed.org black. The fee you can get that whole chapter for free in your post be attributed a road bookkeeping arcing on my Facebook page but I got to your electric several times that Caltech quite an interesting fellow guy kept making references to things like gravity creating universe or you would think maybe the universe couldn't have just one dimension of time, but the equipment to dimensions of time and what I explained in the crater and the cause most of what he was doing and what you feel in Romans chapter 1 he was attributing characteristics of God and attaching them to the universe. So Thursday if you jump in here is deifying the universe, thereby worshiping the creation of leaders. I will be right back with Becky Ross will make sure you know how to get that chapter free and then from there get the rest the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown, the voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution there again is Dr. Michael Brown, I just tweeted this out to take advantage of this updated edition of Dr. Hugh Ross is classic work, the creator and the cosmos now has a chapter that is devoted entirely to the work of Dr. Stephen Hawking's just deceased. You can get that chapter for free go to reasons.org/CC reasons.org/CC I just tweeted that out.

Take advantage of that and of course get the whole book for yourself so Dr. Ross you were saying before the break that with Stephen Hawking small of his brilliance did in his nonbelief in a God who created the universe thereby attributed qualities of deity to the universe itself. Can you unpack that for us all what he meant in good report working years ago working. Hartl worried basically. Yet the universe is constrained by time Alexa followed with an addition to real-time through the imaginary time mathematically that be equivalent of two distinct dimensions of time and at the property that the creator prevent what he actually admitted in a brief history time. All the measurement and observation: the universe and everything in it is constrained to one dimension of time visitors to dimensions of time. There is no boundary to the universe and there is no boundary but the end we have for God to create it. But the problem in the universe really does have only one different time and it really is a need for someone to create that dimension of time and ironically was Stephen Hawking along with Roger Penrose that produced the first of the space-time. Proved that there must be beginning a fun time and therefore agent be on time creates time and as you mentioned that speaking of the H&P on time, who had to create time, therefore, is the fact that the universe exists indicates that there is a creator whether there is ultimately no way around it. When you have the facts and the signs in front of you. If if I'm talking to a nonbeliever and they have questions about these things is your book secreted in the cosmos.

Something I could give to that person would it help them in their journey, exactly.

Of all the book written over the years and decades crater in the cosmos brought more people to faith in Jesus Christ and any other have been through Christian giving the book away to their non-Christian friend awesome like friends again to get the chapter on Stephen Hawking go to reasons.org/C see you can read that. Find out more about the book there and then explore the website. Reasons to believe you'll find different levels of entry. If your seeker if you're a believer with questions for an adult.

Your child is all because of material there are new articles being added on weekly, sometimes daily basis. Dr. Ross, what would you say is the toughest naturalistic objection to God be the creator of the cosmos. What's the most challenging thing that you had to face in and what your answer to all cryptically or critically will all work fine.

Regarding evidence to prevent the water critic.

What are we getting our gravity at what we didn't have thermodynamic but we didn't have electromagnetism or the strong and weak nuclear force in one of the state-run dimensions are radically different and whenever that happens, my responses told you must be talking about the angelic realm at the realm of very different log in a different dimension.

But guess what their realm fine. Just like our relevant complete the complex nature of light demand fine-tuning. Yet God could've done it differently with different laws of physics. Either way, though fine. And if any of your listeners what X defeated brought out the debate. I didn't front of the international skeptic. The fighting would be a cute article because of the picture, thing, or that was the object of our debate yet you're talking the blog and yet there's no question fine-tuning the maker possible. At the very end of the debate, he fed a remember you are all cold.

Nothing that allowed out of the audit statement coming from a beating date. There is no God. We humans have no purpose be of no value with no Stephanie or all cold. Yeah, I don't see any way around that to me with just neurons firing any sense of purpose or destiny is is that this figment of her own imagination if if we are just walking, carbon or whatever have you and in and in the aftermath of these debates ever had interaction with some of the scientists, skeptics, atheists where they've they've opened up and it admitted that the the evidence against them or it's it's more philosophical thing for them or they just don't want to make the jump yet. And after that international skeptic body, the audiobook of €708 from around the world directly for more than three hours talking to them individually and regrouped after word and one thing he told me that the first time in your life. Ever heard a credible fight to defend the Christian faith. We thought we owned by because you believer are violent on the client to talk about everything else except we thought we owned it. The second thing they said was that I made it observation, could you know I've been here all weekend. I just found a brand-new evidence for my Christian faith make the water that all of your speakers focused on the God of the Bible and read all the other gods get a free skate thing a note of the out passionately.

All were about the nonexistence of the God of the Bible you're really working event, the God of the Bible. Good big to be treating a God like you do the Easter Bunny or the great pumpkin or the tooth fairy passion told me you really do believe it exists that you don't like bonds by God from all every one of them was it not that we keep the God of the Bible that we picked by follower and then he began to tell the story of how they had really unpleasant encounter Christians in your life for people who thought they thought were Christian and thought you showed me that when you do get followed. Evidence of the for your Christian faith. You need to be ready with the compassion of the people vote for the artist.

Absolutely what I sound interacting with some ACS is that they're so passionate about justice and so believed in this guy that was supposed be just and fair in here in and hearing your prayers that when they had a major spiritual disappointment. They just threw everything out so it wasn't based initially on hostility towards God, but on a sense of disappointment and that that leads me back to where he started. In reading the description of the book, but that I want to and hear this for you has been over the years writing the book and now updating with 80 more pages this for you has been an ongoing discovery of the wonders of the God we serve. So what have you learn for yourself about God.

Over the years working on this book. Now updating it in the fourth edition what I've learned literally everything the universe. Every component of the universe.

Every event in University history played a critical role in making possible the redemption of billions of it.

Being that all 4 x 4 galaxy fight for planet. I looked up and millions of species of life on planet Earth and realign on the context of God's goal of redeeming billions of human beings under him felt each one played the role control be evident for fine-tuning design really become the president of the pervasive report of your contract not just of what God needs to do to make a home for what he needs to do for billions of becoming to a loving being relationship for the rest of eternity. So, so please this is not just a matter of scientific evidence for the existence of God, but the revelation into the character of of God, and this maybe a question can answer for three hours but we got about two minutes left. How does this give you revelation of God being our heavenly father always showed me the degree to which he walked me back.

I couldn't be here ever heard created 50 billion trillion start while he went to all that effort in order by the possible beam of care for me a great deal and realizing that the age of the universe. If universe frequents like older or younger like that wouldn't be possible that the bargain of the variety that they did and just looking at the galaxies and realizing there's only one galaxy like the possible realizing that every one of the asteroid belt will fill the role in making like the possible God must carefully a great deal but give me the confidence that is going to be with me and work with the liberty every moment of my life which allowed me to come to step out and basically feel okay I walk into that auditorium filled with a few were angry about walking alone, the creator of the universe the walking of that auditorium quickly and forgive me the pavement confident to be an instrument in the kind of situation credible and just as you speak. I'm sitting here drinking this and it's it's ministering to me as well and to all of our listeners and viewers friends.

If you've never visited the website reasons.org reasons to believe reasons.org check it out today you will be enriched sender friends there that don't yet believe in the God that we know and love them while you're there, go over its reasons.org/CC/CC go there, get the free chapter on Dr. Stephen Hawking and then with that. I'm sure you want to get the whole book, the creator and the cosmos.

Dr. Ross.

As always, it's a delight to speak to God's blessing on you and the whole team, regular all right as we come back to change gears and have a very interesting discussion with James Robison about working with people that are different than you without getting flaky and sloppy. You do gives the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown is welcome to date. Hey, go to the stream.org stream.org I got a brand-new article up there today are people born transgender. Trust me, you'll want to know the information it's in their also an article I read with great fascination and interest by Rachel Alexander on stream.org run on the homepage today about the Las Vegas massacre asking very carefully. Is there evidence real evidence that there is a cover-up a conspiracy to cover up evidence as to what actually happened.

It's it's a pretty unnerving thing to read@stream.org it's my joy to speak with founder and publisher of the stream, James Robison and James been a couple weeks but great to have you back on with us today to be with microwaves and your always appreciate what you share. Despite representing God's truth and love are appreciated well from the Hartman were in this together right so so here's the big question and he goes back to advice that that the Graham gave you many years ago in your own ministry to spend time with the Christians that you were taught to avoid now. On the one hand, we know Scripture tells us to avoid false teachers and to mark heretics at the same time we know the Scriptures adjuster to preserve the unity of the body so so how do we spend time with believers that we been taught to avoid and maybe get past some stereotypes and misconceptions without just getting sloppy and thinking anything goes all right sorted. Patient or that we were to preserve seek to preserve unity of the spirit bond pays your spirit which were born.

Enter Terry like they did in the upper room until directed powers of the bike have the unconditional love, but also an uncompromising spirit. You know what happens today disagree dark. It seems like we have a spirit of course prevailing lives of believers, Christians would disagree on. We just can't seem to come we just split. We will start another tribe, another group, but we just get away from.

I think this is anything but family is not a single marriage is single family member that have some very serious disagreements about retention always start them sometimes very serious, but to divorce is one of the most damaging practices are believed in the church and we got up that I don't know very many people that are Wrongly serious discussion with that we may not find what we consider to be a pretty serious which we don't see exactly the now rather than having a low patience ago to see if we can grow together at least a continuation of that letter without having to divorce to me is important. I am not going to stop loving people just because I am Other conventional, I it's not likely necessarily outside of troops we just agreed to let peace by we keep preserve the unity of the spirit on date.

If you and I have experienced serious disagree. I don't thing you could do.stop me from very deep, sincere, real active you and I would also have been spirit where we disagree. I would ask the Lord to show it wrong correctly help us reach of understanding about this to me sounds like a very effective way for couples to get along with payment brothers and sisters and people to get along.

I read so many things that I think my good old Curt treatment looks like this person take a shot of the but I don't automatically pick a side, I don't start putting words and names label, individual to try to discredit them or minimize their effect. I immediately start praying for understanding, praying for an opportunity to camping. I got to college and run out of people. I question some of things they said and I don't think they understand exactly what's going on totally that there dressing in a way that sounds like a dog, you know, one of the biggest microburst of downtime right now probably just talk to Dr. Mann is being unjust to critically say a lot of things that it they bear meditating out biking about don't have to decide person is when and where part a month to do that I will do my best to be a peacemaker and preserve the unity of the spirit which we were born on the police. Pete and the fact that you pray for the person. Sometimes we forget that yet and that we then pray for ourselves. Maybe we have the blind spot or maybe both of us have blind spots. Things that we we tend to to not do it many years ago there was a brother with a major media ministry who was attacking meetings I was part of the Brownsville revival and I was going to be having a debate with him and I called our student body to pray for him, but in such a way that the prayers were positive prayers and I would pray the same thing for a hand that I pray for myself that were at wherever I was doing God's will and speaking as well that he would give increase and where I was. Not doing his will speak his will that he would bring pruning and after the debate.

We ended up having a great time of reconciliation together. He then came and spoke to a student body when he walked in he was given a standing ovation which floored him, but the students never heard a negative word about him that was they prayed for him in a constructive way. They knew he opposed were doing, but there was never any hostility in the way we pray we are right, he's wrong. It was rather here's a brother we're brothers and sisters.

Lord bless your people together. I think sometimes that we have this whole divorce thing, perhaps because of insecurity in our own position.

It could that be true. I think what you write is a perfect exactly what he was talking about serving your spirit about the picture. It worked. I think we will all be amazed at how effective the God be with you just practice it is preached putting action, you realize micro but people would be impacted by the gospel of Jesus Christ. The transforming power of history is redemptive work of our lives that we don't have a single sink challenge of single dilemma that we could not effectively and even successfully address and we could do it in short order.

The solution to the problems in the world are found in the transforming power of but got and impact of bad kingdom of everyone about just gave an illustration of I tried to give it a restriction that I'm telling you this is where I'm people may want to take off cheap shots in the world today. What you noticed there not many people so I couldn't write. They're not taking cheap shots at me. You know something of a may start, but may started mass tomorrow, they'll change out. I'll try to learn from one of the greatest things to start learning from his and start learning from the people to criticize it. We only love your enemies, I can teach you the truth, not in the best way necessary. I'm going to do that.

And I'm not going to change it interesting that this this spirit seems to disarm even the harshest critic yeah it it it is it is true you know I am on one occasion when I when I sat down with this this one brother who is very critical of us. We said let's spend a few hours together and my perception is been that he had really been attacking me and coming against us in unfair ways will be sent out to talk the first question I asked him was how have I failed you in our relationship and he just wanted me to know that he's a very sincere believer, and that there are lots of false attacks against him. Think basically that the wall between us went down in a matter of seconds. Then there was a lot to talk about and talk through but just like in a husband-wife relationship. Once we put down our defenses and once we don't just walk in such pride and now I'm unconcerned about the other person. Normally, once you get there. You've already opened up a massive door of communication. So it comes down to do. I love my neighbor including the neighbor that I differ with all marriage is treated like church leaders, church members and preachers. Every marriage ordered truth of their something a mass I will be a part of correcting it in inspiring the correction. I am determined to live out, I'm not going to go somewhere else to try to bring everybody else I'm not wrong what I believe it try to show on the transforming power so that we can all continue to be soft clay yielded in my hand.the master Park to continue to shape Christ in us. Let's keep in mind that even the pressure that practicums can still shape Christ in a dispute through the fingers of the hand.so everything that happens I live… Use it correctly it will shape Christ in us, and that's the hope of his glory.

Repeat this or yeah I remember the first piece of hate mail I got the ministry.

Decades ago someone gave it to me in our book table. Mrs. decades and decades back and and I brought it home and I said to Nancy. I can believe what this person said it's crazy and I started and I and I was really thrashing is no, maybe there's some truth in it. I said what are you talking about the guys off the defenses so I know I know but maybe there some truth in it. So I have a problem you have to immediately then put the pride down and say okay, maybe I can maybe there is something that I could learn from this and and James once and you've done now is really seek to get God's heart and speak to the nation's as a father because it's such a fatherless nation generation.

When you're doing that on your Facebook page, rev.

James Robison and those are also posted on stream stream.org what's the last thing that you've talked to the nation about this.

This father's heart perspective drawings. & McCombs, McNair, and Robert and we talked about mentoring and mantled weekly focused on mentoring about weight this is our program. But while Eric Tate began.

Pray Sperry's mission and it will area several times may be many God showed up. Really, really, it might. And they were asking about the mentoring object that I've had on their life and many others that they brought you know you kindly say about that, about your lot and I don't go out speaking to mentor. I go out and when I left something on its father's love that feeling my heart overflowing and out of the abundance of my heart, Bob's big and he speaks as a father and mentor is the one that speaks not only perhaps sometimes correction or exit line is you know it really does shine through. We are out of time with your brother.

Thank you again for joining us, exemplifying the message. It's the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6634 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown to the line of is Michael Brown. What a delight talked to my friend and colleague James Robison and he he he really does walking very supernatural, very deep love and and you know for fees if using your court. He's a friend.

So I want to talk to about this for a moment about walking in love about being redemptive in the midst of differences we have so so look we have differences with some people who are of another faith or not of any faith in other words, an atheist or agnostic or Buddhist or Muslim or Hindu. These are people who are completely outside of our sphere of faith. We don't look at them as fellow believers we don't expect them to share our same belief system. We understand that, and yet if that person was our next-door neighbor. We love that person is herself. Yes, it would be our calling, we reach out to them would be kind to them. We do what we could to be good neighbors and thereby demonstrate the reality of our faith in God through our love for them and be genuinely good human beings so that they would be glad that we are their neighbors right that that would be the goal. Now ultimately they may be uncomfortable because were believers, and they're not. But our heart is we love them. We will not have fellowship with them in terms of a deep spiritual bond that second happened right but we can certainly be coworkers, friends, neighbors, and we should exemplify the spirit of Jesus and what about people who claim to be followers of Jesus, but are heretical in their beliefs like Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses or other groups like that. Well, again, we treat them in a similar way we treat them as people outside of the faith we treat them as we would treat any other person.

It is the Lord loving them as are self-seeking to be good neighbors, friends, coworkers, but we couldn't have fellowship with them. There could be work together for the gospel. Now let's say there was a crisis in our neighborhood and something happened whereby everybody had a chipping together to try to help out a family that was destitute or some natural disaster hit and there's an earthquake, and people buried under rubble. What we all go running down together, atheist, Hindu, Buddhist, Jehovah's Witness Mormon born-again Christian, side-by-side, and try to pull the Rubloff people right but if there was a prayer meeting that night praying for victims that are in the hospital and I can be part of a joint prayer meeting where once praying to their God or whatever I'm gonna pray with other believers so my spiritual activities are good to be together with other believers and natural things we can work together on you know your food distribution.

Okay, how can we work together as a neighborhood to help out those that are in need. Great everybody working together but ultimately gospel solutions really can be found with fellow believers. Okay what about people of of whose faith were not sure.

In other words, they seem to be believers. They seem to be genuine.

They seem to profess that they've come to faith in the God of the Bible, etc. but some of their beliefs are very different than ours. Why not get to know them, okay, pretty radical extreme idea. Why not spend time together and find out what they really believe I just got a copy yesterday of my book the grace controversy which came out after hyper grace at the request of the publisher it shorter.

It's a popular version breaks things down to certain questions. This not take the place of hyper grace, just it different book on the same subject just got a copy be translated into Indonesian so hyper. Grace is been translated into many languages it's been translated into finishing into Italian into German and into Dutch and into Indonesian, etc. and now grace controversy also Indonesian on the triplets of the languages while I have very, very, very strong differences with hyper grace teachers. Some of them call themselves hyper grace teacher some of them.

This is how I categorize them based on them holding to certain fundamental beliefs and because of that I spent over two hours with pastor Joseph Prince over 15 months ago when I was in Singapore. Esther Prince is the best known teacher worldwide that I would see teaches a message of hyper grace.

He wanted me to know areas that he emphasize that I would know were absolutely foundational to meet. In other words, his his faith in the word of God's love for the word of God's love to win the lost to Jesus his belief that submission to the Lord Jesus is important and essential his belief that holiness is progressive, that you cannot get more righteous because you declared righteous salvation, but you can get more holy. You can become holier as you grow in the Lord, which many of those who hold to hyper grace do not believe that they say that holiness is instantaneous. Just as righteousness is in any case, we work together. I wrote an article and then ascended to heaven we went back and forth on the wording saying these are the areas where we agree. We still have differences. We still have areas of disagreement, absolutely. I'm glad that my hyper grace but continues to get out. Make an impact be translated. I'm glad the grace controversy is out in hyper grace. I call Joseph Prince many times, but you'll see in the book I quoted him as a brother to say why because according to everything. Understand he is genuinely born again he holds to gospel fundamentals. He wants to see people truly saved and disciple and the differences that we have our differences with in the faith. There is nothing of the fundamental gospel. To my knowledge that he denies and there are areas within the gospel within salvation were we have strong differences but in the book I quoted him as a brother and I also referenced testimonies of people whom I've heard from regularly through the years. Now who been positively transformed by the message of grace that he preaches I've met them regularly people that I've known for years, said that they were really bogged down and struggled people that graduated from ministry school and served on the mission field.

One of them said yeah just that they didn't agree with everything he said maybe 20%, 30% to differed with but the 70 or 80% was liberating a life changing for them is really help them in their walk with the Lord. Somebody tweeted me one day. I'm not sure if I should get your book hyper grace.

I got set free from alcoholism listening to Joseph Prince Sibley will be helped by the book of only build on the grace treason remove some error along the way up Esther Prince sent me many many testimonies of people delivered from all kinds of sexual immorality as a result of hearing his message elements.

He says that the message you preach leads to holiness messages. There is error in it that's going to confuse people as well. But here's the point we can emphasize where we agree not had people jamming me to hell because I recognize him as a brother. So be that fine, go, go ahead. I met his defender I'm not his apologist. We if I wrote the book hyper grace.

Okay, we differ. That being said, spending time together really help me better understand what he believed. Help me probe some issues with them.

Help us focus specifically on areas where we still differ with each other.

My hope is that whenever he preaches and teaches that some of my differences with him would be in his his head as a sick man if he could just preach repentance more clearly lay these things that were clearly would be helpful.

You know, and whatever perspective he has what he does in his ministries between him and God. But here's the point.

We spent time together. Here we might've spent all that time and concluded that our differences were even deeper wasn't good. It's good. We spent the time together. Then I shot out my warnings even more loudly than before. Then he tells people to avoid by book. Whatever or we find there were areas of common concern that we have with exaggerations of grace, he said to me why don't we agree to expose counterfeit grace. And he laid out what he meant by conifer grace us and I agree with the definition of counterfeit grace yet.

Let's put our strengths together because by God's grace we both have influence and platforms. Let's put our strengths together. He has a massive massive TV platform these days and let's come against counterfeit grace of the same time, people realize we have differences about other issues with an faith. I want to encourage your pastor or leader. Have you gotten together with other pastors and leaders in your city about some of those who are in culture, trying to reach out to those who are with in the botnet. Maybe it's a liberal, Lutheran, Presbyterian pastor when you get with this guy or gal you find out they know and believe the authority of Scripture that I believe Jesus rose from the dead.

Okay that's so now you're you deal with them like an unsafe person to try to reach all right, but I'm talking about your Baptist you got an Assembly of God pastor, your your Presbyterian. There's a Baptist pastor, your whatever the different groups are. They claim to believe the Bible is God's word, not exterior books as God's were like the Mormons doing things like that that hold to the fundamentals of the apostles Creed and the secret of the fundamentals of whatever okay the basics. They affirm those things. Have you ever spent time together have you ever done it or just brothers and sisters, you got friends and in other churches and rather arguing all desire of honor at have you ever spent time together and talk things through and find out. Maybe you have more in common interest or maybe you can each learn from each other because maybe Strengths could be encourage you to think about all right friends.

That being said, that encourage you to visit our goal find me page. We now have an up dated video showing you progress, you gotta see it got to see what I see in the studio we take you around the screens. The whole set up with everything that's happened through your contributions. This is how were doing live stream right on YouTube and Facebook, that is you listen on radio.

Others are watching me live on YouTube and Facebook.

So go to and sees me go find me.com/ask Dr. Brown studio goal find me.com/KSK DR Brown studio together making a difference back with you tomorrow