Cessationist Call In Day

Yes it is secessionist call in day today. If you don't believe the gifts of the spirit for today.

If you have a question about the gifts of the spirit for today. Phone lines are wide open stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown welcome welcome to the broadcasts. This is Michael Brown coming away from beautiful resort center in Green Lake, Wisconsin. I flew out from Nashville airport on Saturday and in the greater Nashville area to debate Dr. theater Zacharias on the gifts of the Spirit on Friday night we'll talk about the gifts of the spirit for today.

In a moment so we did a debate on Friday night and then flew from Nashville to Chicago and from Chicago to Rio little airport in Appleton, Wisconsin, was picked up there and then drove like an hour. I mean, we pass places like Oshkosh and I said never heard of and had an older couple that lived here all their lives they were kind enough to give a first-class tour of the region and tell me the background to the different places to work.

Kind of and what you call God's country here and I thought you know we are broadcasting from here. It's a live show but why, why not open the phones for all of you who have questions about the gifts of the spirit for today all of you who say that you don't believe that the gifts for today that is contrary to the sufficiency of Scripture or these were just miracles associated with the apostles or whatever so you've got questions you want to challenge my views maybe watch the debate and thought while they are there better arguments that could be raised by all means raise them all right 866-34-TRUTH 87884.

The debate with Dr. Zacharias is already on our YouTube channel recorded by reforming America ministries, the ones who invited us there so they recorded it and we have the link out on our YouTube channel through social live stream on their Facebook page and then we posted the link on our Facebook page, which thankfully it reaches about 500 spoke 160,000 followers right there so it's been viewed. I think maybe 15,000 times online and now the get many more views on YouTube so if you haven't watched it, by all means to man watch. It was conducted in a gracious way on all sides.

The moderators really were very clear. Everything went right. According to schedule really to the second so that's very, very positive.

We appreciate that, but but today if you have a question. If you want to challenge me on my views.

If you think something represented is wrong. If you're trying to sort something out for yourself. Give us a call 866-348-7884 and I will go to the phones pretty quickly. Today I know about you, call at the same time so will will get to as many as we can so I have to tell you though honestly that when I prepare for the debate I had. I had no idea what Dr. Zacharias position would be where he'd be coming from really didn't know.

Turns out he wrote a whole book seeking to refute me. Have a chapter in the authentic fire, but the response to Pastor John MacArthur have a whole chapter there could so the Scripture and therefore charismatics are used as the basis for book reviews in response to me right. He gave me a copy of the book. Afterwards, I really appreciate him taking the time to do that. So he's been preparing for this debate according to footnote for months and doing the research and getting ready to prepare but I had no idea what his position would be, I knew what my position was. So I was going to be clear and ready to articulate that. And of course I was ready to respond to first Corinthians 8 through 10 rates to 12 just in the event that he might cite that as proof that the gifts were not for today, but I thought you know it's it's really not with the passage says in any way. It really supports our view, there is no history of interpretation of it.

We find the early church interpreting first Corinthians 13 with reference to the completion of the canon of Scripture and therefore give ceasing a certain point in time. Based on that it it's it's a pretty obscurantist position that only became popular really in reaction to the modern Pentecostal charismatic movement and fewer and fewer scholars hold to it so I was really expecting him to major on that that was his that was his argument basted. That was his entire argument was was there so that was a surprise, but of course very easy to respond to so we're gonna take your calls and look it can be broader issues as long as it ties in with the larger question of the gifts and power of the spirit for today or that which was spoken of in Scripture.

Is it still normative today that Nicholas is a really interesting that that happen in the debate I cited James Jacob chapter 5 verses 13 to 16 as an example of praying for the sick, being something that should be normative in the church today that we pray for the sick and that the elders anoint with oil. Pray for the sick and that they should be able to pray in faith for healing, and it was this is something that should be widely expected as the North so Dr. Zacharias took exception to that said, I don't even hear about that passage again because it doesn't tie in with the issue of charismatic gifts at this is a call for those with gifts of healing addresses call for elders and nowhere does it say that the qualification of an elder in order to be an elder that you have to have a gift of healing. I said okay so as long as you accept that it's normative that we should be praying for the sick in our churches and expecting healing, then we I'm I'm happy to leave it there is no so it's very interesting to see okay that doesn't touch on the question of the gifts for Smith. It's okay, you could make that argument by but then as large as it's normative because everything else there in James five is quite normative it was.

Is anyone said they should. They should sing innovation pray. Is anyone happy they should sing hymns as anyone sick.

The scope of the of the congregation. This is just normative practice, 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Danny and Canada. Welcome to the line of fire doing great.

Thank you for the spirit on the ministry like my question would be, you believe and why or why not be possible.

It went up today in the same capacity of the original 12 thanks for the question Danny so close. We address this a lot in recent months. Number one I believe and what we refer to as fivefold ministry the gulp of apostles and prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers in the church for the upbuilding the body into we all come in the unity of the faith and maturity in the Sunbelt, which is not yet happened. So I believe that there apostles and prophets in the church today.

However, I do not believe that there apostles who have the same authority or function in the same way as the 12 did. That's why they're called the 12. That's where the foundations stones of the new Jerusalem have their names on them uniquely and there are no profits today that have the authority of said Isaiah or Jeremiah.

No one is speaking Scripture today.

No one can call for apostolic authority, that the way the apostles could have. So they stand distinct but are there people that have apostolic ministry today. Sure, you know, in the New Testament. For example, Barnabas in acts 1414, is referred to as an apostle. There were others in the New Testament refer to his apostles and in the basic meaning of the Greek up. Estella was just to be sent on a mission. So I look through history and I see no say Patrick going to Ireland is a truly apostolic leader. I see Hudson Taylor going to China as an apostolic leader. I see men like John Wesley and William Booth. These pioneer leaders in the 1700s and 1800s as being truly apostolic man.

I look at my friend, a soup Ottoman India, to whom Jesus appeared and he got radically born again.

It is an atheist radical communist alcoholic and is planted over 7000 churches in tribal regions and birth ministries and other parts of the world and and and pioneered social change in areas from schools and hospitals and things like that. So I believe that we have apostles today it if it's confusing to someone because they think apostle adjusting to 12 with and you can just talk about these pioneer leaders of these people fathered ministries or organizations or denominations, but I still believe that that they exist. I believe that the New Testament encourages this in an ongoing way as long as people don't try to usurp authority or think that that now that this makes them somebody special. I see apostles having authority just like us. He pastors having authority.

In other words, we have authority as servants. We have authority to build up and not to destroy lives so as I understand Scripture. Yes and I also believe that even if we don't use the terms that these type of people exist in our midst and that their prophetic voices bringing wake-up calls to the church and speaking to society a look at the late Chuck Colson's having a prophetic message for America or Francis Schaeffer for America and the church is as prophetic men, no matter what they call themselves that's I understand Scripture and how it fleshes out practically today. Very good answer. Michael, thank you so much.

Sure thing.

Alright so so friends before go back to the phones since I mentioned apostles just in case you have been living under a rock somewhere the last six months and have not heard me address the endless controversy of our new apostolic Reformation that everyone denies involvement as conspiratorial things. The Christian version of the illuminati. It's taking off at the church. And yes I will be sarcastic like that absolutely okay so number one there is something that Peter Wegner, the late Dr. Wegner coined the new apostolic Reformation, which she described this something that was happening in churches around the world that were going back hundred years that were growing outside of normal denominational structures that he looked at is more generally apostolic in origins and that he daubed new apostolic Reformation and its it's wide-ranging it's broad. It's a house church movement in Brazil. It's an underground movement chided something here. It's of their broad range okay and he did. That is, as a professor is a theologian.

Then he led an organization which was a coalition of people called apostles and I never joined when I heard the term new apostolic Reformation that's registered to me Peter Wagner's organization and with all respect to Dr. Wegner. I had profound differences with some of his teaching. It seemed that everybody was in apostle Mauer that that you could be Doug dissident the apostle over region and have some kind of special authority just by someone designating you with and that you can grow your network ice to call it a possible acquisition and I wrote about that in in my book, playing with holy fire explicitly address that is an abuse that I differed with so I was never part of that organization which we understood was that Peter Wagner's new apostolic Reformation. Last year I started hearing about new apostolic Reformation.

It's everywhere to destroy people's lives. It's reaching hundreds of millions of people around the world and and they believe this and they believe that one arose at and its ultimate nearness is sick what and that what you talk about and Michael Brown is one of the leaders in denies is all you talk so that's the thing that I constantly this world why conspiratorial dominion is no, I don't believe that an agreement on the part of it and I don't know anyone that believes like that personally apostles to ensure that back with your calls. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown and Brown. It's actually an American Baptist conference, but these are charismatic Baptists so we would have a great time ministering over the weekend today talk about cultural issues and things like that and we got a special interview coming your way tomorrow with Philip Lee, a man with dynamic testimony coming out of homosexuality and with a great ministry to those struggling with sexual brokenness, but today with some of the gifts of the spirit being for today that the look I specially invite those who differ with me to: maybe watch the debate with Dr. Zacharias from Friday night and your call I wish you race this I would erase this or what about this, but won't go ahead and raise it or pursue a point you to get an answer something adequately going to pursue it there enough of you who challenge me online or call me dangerous cerebral proponent of Naro or what I appeared on the Benny hinge show this matter. 5000 differences are. Whatever it is what you call it because the phone listen, we are paying for the radio time were broadcasting this on stations across America and on Internet on Facebook and YouTube have the potential to reach millions of people.

We can let your voice be heard and if you just taught them as social media hate 99% chance of an associate and and if I do see it on the stronger chance the 99% will be able to respond to it. So funds are open. That being said, may be your charismatic or Pentecostal, but you've got a question or something is confusing you. You've heard the objection. You can call in even if you're not a cessation. It's okay, fair enough.

866-34-TRUTH we go over to Virginia at Stanley, welcome to the line of fire or dark brown or user doing very well thank you long-term luster about the world understanding no end in a particularly spiritual understanding want to make great gifts at the station spiritual receptivity.

This is something that I read. I will years just run around like my head cut off of the metabolic rate in God.

But Mr. one night talking about a good book to read about what he had to say about no spiritually and I was was amazed that I got hung up in theology. All this other stuff read this book and read that no guerrilla mortality guided. I pray that God would give me understanding how would you think that one would absolutely know beyond a shadow of the death has understand yeah I don't know Stanley that I would look at this is a black-and-white saying one day, I don't have spiritual understanding. One day I do. I would look at is black-and-white in terms of salvation one day. I didn't know the Lord. Now I know the Lord one day. My eyes were blind now. My eyes were open but in terms of spiritual understanding. This is something that all of us grow in, and Paul prayed for the Ephesians and I think it's a great prayer that we pray for ourselves. He prays to incredible prayers for the Ephesians of the first one is in Ephesians the first chapter and I believe it's a great thing for us to pray this for ourselves. He's he says this beginning in verse 17.

I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious father would give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him. I pray that the perception of your mind may be enlightened, so you may know what is the hope of is: what are the glorious riches of his inheritance among the saints what is the immeasurable greatness of his power to us who believe, according to the working of his vast strength.

So I would personalize that. I pray that you would give me a spirit of wisdom and revelation.

I may know you better. I pray Lord is the perception of my mind may be enlightened, so I may know what is the hope of my calling and the glorious riches of of your inheritance among the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of your power to to me as a believer. According to the working of your vast strength and then over in the third chapter, Paul prays, beginning in this universe. 14 for this reason I kneel before the father, for whom every family in heaven on earth is named, I pray that he may grant you, so make it personal. Lord I pray that you may grant me. According to the riches of your glory to be strengthened with power, the romance for your spirit, and that the Messiah may dwell in my heart through faith.

I pray that I being rooted and firmly established in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the length and breadth and width and height and depth of your love and to know the Messiah's love that surpasses knowledge sorry be filled with all the fullness of God.

So I would just pray for it Stanley in an ongoing way that we continue to grow and how do you know it's happening. You have greater love for the Lord, you have greater sense of fellowship with the Lord you have greater sense of understanding who he is and it's it's like a light will keep going on all now I see that all can see that before all the understand that and we continue to grow in that respect.

And then I think another manifestation of growth would be that people are really blessed by what we share that really help me gave me an insight into who God is. So in Outlook are one of our grandsons lives nearby and anything that age now he sees 14 and is growing more and more and and he can be can be away for couple weeks and he comes oversight did you get taller map.

Let's measure because we get lines on the walls with the grandkids that let's measure your and you know it's imperceptible to him but ill. We got another grandson that's that was further away he comes.

We haven't seen him in a few months and you grown so much.

So a lot of times we grow and we don't even realize it, but others will be able to see it so may the Lord continue to grant consent. Pray those prayers from Ephesians 1 and from Ephesians 3 and personalize them for yourself.

All right, let's go to Ohio Jorge, welcome to the line of fire by Dr. Brown. I appreciate thank you for having me on been a fan of yours for a while. I enjoy your debates with Mr. Dr. Y and I did get to see the other debate with Dr. Zacharia, but the I will check that out great.

My question is pertaining to the gifts of the spirit as presented in the New Testament are they to be utilized today in the same capacity that we see in the New Testament and my contention is that I'm not sure that they are only because I see and I'm talking about like extreme Pentecostalism wore the face of NRA stuff are in AR stuff but like you know it we read stuff like in first Timothy chapter 5 verse 23. I'm sure you're familiar. He tells Timothy. You may use a little wine for your stomach illness because you know that you have frequent illness and then Paul talks about his own situation in second Corinthians chapter 12 about this morning. You know, and then write directly after that he list that the signs of a true apostle. You know, wonders miracle signs and he is a true apostle, but yet God is telling him that his grace is sufficient and you know and then he's given Timothy just impractical. You know medical advice. So I actually actually Jorge, I think I think your point is very important but goes a little different direction, you might be thinking, yet there are some extreme Pentecostalism were to faith folks who under no circumstance will go with Dr. who will not take medicine or anything like that but that that really represents extreme and some of the early pioneers in divine healing had that you know hundred years ago. Medical practice was not where it is today in America. But even our best amine chemotherapy for cancer is hardly God's best. With all the good the doctors are trying to do. Chemotherapy itself can be very destructive.

So the vast, vast majority of Pentecostals charismatic center on the rolling almost to a person would say yes thank God for medical science. Thank God for doctors thank out for four practical jurors and and natural cures and things like that so the point I'm making out. We don't know exactly what Paul's thorn was there's debate was it the physical settlement illness. Was it extreme persecution was at the super apostles, but put it aside. We know that he gave Timothy practical advice about dealing with his frequent stomach ailments. We know in second Timothy four that he said he left her FEMA sick and delete this. So, for whatever reason, even though Paul was an apostle, even though he was using signs, wonders and miracles.

Even though, for example, at the end of the book of acts and the 28th chapter of Malta that he feels everyone. It's on the island. We still see that that not everyone was automatically healed. For example, Timothy retro FEMA so some people have a view Jorge that the gift of healing in the New Testament was 100% all the time that everywhere the apostles went. Everybody was healed and we do have accounts like that where they went to a place in everybody's heel but I certainly don't believe that there were no sick people in the church.

I certainly don't believe that it was 100% all the time. I do believe I do believe that we should be seeing much more healing today at any again you have an extreme here and there but but don't let that represent the whole. The norm is that in our churches. We pray for the sick records with James Jacobs the fifth chapter, we believe that healing is a gift from God and something good that sickness in and of itself is debilitating to know God can work through it in and of itself. It's bad that healing in itself is good. Therefore we pray for the sick and there are some people who have specific gifts of healing, and as they pray for the sick, they may see more deaf people healed, blind people healed or be more it cripples healed that they seem to have a special grace and anointing and that could be why in first Corinthians 12 Paul speaks of gifts plural of healing again. We can debate it, because we have nothing beyond that context, but some believe that it refers to different types of diffs of healing that someone is used by God in one area of healing and someone in another area feeling and and I know people that say I see a lot of deaf people healed without blind knows I see a lot of blind people healed and not death with the Lord sort that out but Jorge, I see the gifts as being the same gifts the same spirit, the same doing the mess the same miracle working power of God and therefore expect to see the same things today of prophecy back then was not writing the Bible okay test the gift of prophecy words from the Lord, but they were not part of the Bible is a prophecy today is not part of the Bible is distinct God's word Deacon only in that respect. Yes you guessed functioning the same today. At least they should thank you for great question. Her plan and gives the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown in the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH dear again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know I have such an amazing now with our outreach real Messiah broadcast Wednesday night as well euro. Sometimes I get to the truth. It'll be like 11 at night and I'm sitting home and writing deadlines that we get maybe Nancy's doing something else over it on totally on my own inherent and of writing and it's like I think I want to go live online and talk to is just if must be 11 at night and I'll just do a Facebook live broadcast as a have you got questions go ahead and ask them so it's it's a privilege to be on the air with you five days a week.

Here is never the call 866-34-TRUTH 7884 we been announcing this on our Twitter feed and letting folks know that were dubbing today.

Cessation asked call in day meaning if you don't believe the gifts of the spirit. The New Testament gifts of the spirit, or for today if if you do if you don't believe that speaking in tongues is for today or that prophecy is for today or or healing or gift of miracles or you don't leave their normative.

If you want to challenge me if you have an honest question, it may be worth charismatic cost struggle without Bowman's give me a call and I have to tell you, as I was preparing for my debate with Dr. Theodore Zacharias this past Friday night and it's on our YouTube channel so just watch it it asked Dr. Brown as Kate DR Brown watches there. I was prepared for the debate, thinking of all the potential arguments he could raise as a secessionist and no no insult to him whatsoever he be prepared and worked hard for it for the night. No insult to those of you that based on your understanding Scripture hold to cessation his position, but in my mind, using the Bible alone if you just lock somebody in a room with the Bible.

I don't know how you come cessation could I see someone becoming a Calvinist. Yeah, I'm not a Calvinist, but I see a lot of verses that could go in that direction. And if under the debate Dr. White. I know he's gonna raise some verses and really press them because you could really say those verses point to a Calvinistic understanding Scripture and of course I have other verses that I feel point the other direction to to the point that it clearly weighs the balance for me in that direction for him. Obviously, in the other direction. When I debate a rabbi I know. Okay, there are all kinds of arguments that can be raised in an objections to this or this or this or this, but I I have yet to this day. To this day reading cessation specs. Remember those you know my story late 70s early 80s I tried to become a secessionist. I didn't like being Pentecostal charismatic. I did, I I didn't like it until because of intellectual pride in my life and as I was getting my my PhD at NYU only be more intellectually sophisticated, I become a Calvinist and things like that in and I didn't want to be Pentecostal charismatic and I bought books against it right this not the that do not interpret Scripture rightly so. To this day I have yet heard a single scriptural argument for cessation is that to me carries white inmates how can you say that the mother find cessation scholars I respect that. I respect that and I learned from them. In many areas, but in preparing for the debate I thought of what could he possibly say it and after the debate I thought our is no argument that can be race based on Scripture and feel free to differ with me feel free. I don't say that to discourage you from calling I say that to encourage you or if you have questions about apostolic ministry of that kind of thing in genuine questions when asked.

Phone lines are open 866-348-7884.

Let's go to Raleigh North Art. We were going to go to Raleigh and Erin excuse me Aron in Raleigh wanted to talk to me about the issue of politeness one towards another. And I think it's really important in the midst of our differences that we have civility look somebody posted online the other day about charismatic leader who says if the gospel you preach doesn't come with signs and wonders. It's not the gospel and this guy says that's heresy as to what you mean by heresies all the teaching outside of Orthodox, not it's one definition of heresy understand, but but another definition of heresy.

The way I use it would be a damnable doctrine. In other words, there plenty of things were. We have differences so versa Calvinist.

Some of us are many in service of a Lutheran view of salvation.

Some of us believe in infant water baptism of his believe in believer baptism service believe and speak in tongues today of his believe that past.

These are differences we have within the body summer premillennialism possible until some millennial some pre-tribulation supposed to go to.

These are differences we have within the body and its dangerous when we label anything outside of our particular teaching to be heretical so look unfortunately the folks who organize that the debate with Dr. sick Zacharias the key organizer told me that because I am not a Dorian Calvinist that I'm not safe with every friendly discussion about in the car going to the airport to sedate your opinion is is and that's utterly meaningless to me.

You could think on the finest man of God on the planet or the devil incarnate its bodily material to move your opinion as I just feel bad for you to have that narrow US will get to discuss that in eternity and just there left with him as very sincere man in a very sincere those are his views. Now he was still good to be civil and gracious as we interact and as we differed, but I find that to be a dangerous position to take.

We are ready.

Dogmatic enough to say Jesus is the only way of salvation. Everyone outside of him is lost. It's already dogmatic enough and you could say small and narrow enough, but if it's not our particular denominational brand look. I absolutely don't believe in infant baptism absolutely don't believe it. And if if you came to faith right. Let's hear your part of my home congregation. You came to faith and maybe were baptized as an infantry Catholic and you are born again so should I be baptized and of course you should be baptized that happen as an infant that didn't count and and you didn't know the Lord then LOC will know know you like Martin Luther taught. It's like baptisms like no adult close that may not be as exact quote you but you grow into them and other say no.

It's a sacrament that it has value.

Okay, I differ with that but I like to say you're lost and going to hell and unsaved.

If you differ with me on that point the same way. Dr. White and I have had great debates on Calvinism versus Arminianism and in breaking it down to your limited atonement and things like that but we do it his brothers in the Lord in the same way as I was debating Dr. Zacharias.

I was debating in my mind, a brother in the Lord and and all the more than should we walk in love, should be walking grace one towards another. Should we be polite towards each other in the midst of our differences and to see the way people go after things on social media is is really tragic. I mean, what Paul writes in Galatians 5 if you bite and devour not one another, take heed lest you are consumed by one another. So friends in the midst of our differences. Let's step higher. Okay no I don't agree with the statement that if the gospel he preaches in the company with signs and wonders is not the gospel. I do understand that the brother making the statement was not meaning you are not preaching Jesus to people and people not getting saved in your not say it was as I had it related to be overstated. In a way that could give a very wrong impression. So of course if your sharing look 99% of the people that I share Jesus with mom flying on the player talking to someone.

There's not a miracle accompanying it at that moment Beyoncé that I they're not miraculously healed of something as were talking that I getting out of the wheelchair. As were talking on that having a supernatural word for that about something in their past and that's happening with people that I've spoken to annexing like how did you know that had you know that and they get all shaken and the Holy Spirit opens their eyes. One of my friends constantly as is ministering to the lost Hill Hill have information about the health talk about something. I have do with the day they were born.

He'll talk about something in their background like how you know me as a will. The Lord knows you and the Lord set his love on you because he wants to save you and and and but but look when people share the gospel with me. I was at miraculously healed. At that moment was that instantly delivered of drugs at the moment I heard the gospel heard the gospel penetrated my soul and the great miracle the great great greatest miracle of all miracles is the miracle of salvation so so even the most militant cessation missed in the world who doesn't believe that there any miracles of healing today and he doesn't believe the gift of prophecy under any circumstance today and he says the days of miracles insist they still believe in the miracle of conversion of the greatest miracle of all is there's only one miracle I can have give me that miracle I felt back in 1984 when I was in in Mombasa can't excuse me, 1989 in Mombasa, Kenya that that one night late in prayer the Lord spoke to my heart. When people die can give them a new body. I can't give them a new heart. So yes, we agreed the greatest miracle of the most miracle of conversion is the most outstanding. It is the most supernatural is the most meaningful but as a norm when the gospel is preached, especially to the lost in Scripture and often around the world to the states accompanied by God's power is the Holy Spirit testifying. Think of this acts. The fifth chapter as Peter and the apostles were pushing back against persecution and intimidation.

They say we are witnesses of these things and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God is given to those who obey him so we are witnesses we are testifying to these things and so is the Holy Spirit will have you testify you say yes on this particular day I was there I saw this accident I saw this man drive on the sidewalk and hit this woman walking with her child. Yes I was there I saw it happen from eyes I'm bearing witness yes we saw Jesus die and we watched him rise from the dead. We saw him after he rose and he is change their lives. Yes, I was shooting heroin at the age of 15 and miraculously delivered by God at the age of 16. So I bear witness. I testify how does the Holy Spirit speak.

I was the Holy Spirit testifying with signs and wonders and miracles. The Holy Spirit testifies by doing in Jesus name.

What Jesus did when he was on the earth. It always use this illustration, but the famous illusionist and magician Harry Houdini made a pact with his wife that he would communicate with her from the grave after his death.

Most descent never heard about the outlets because it didn't happen because he was dead and gone, but Jesus rose from the dead and continues his acts of compassion look. Healing is not just some abstract theological issue right now there those you badly for your child get a child with cancer.

This is hardly abstract theology you got a spouse that's dying you're in constant agonizing pain and crying out to God worship God and love him.

Whether were healed or not, but these are hardly abstract theological issues. These are literally life and death issues and Jesus and his compassion healed the sick, then he's alive and healing the sick today. I friends you got a question about gifts of the spirit any question of any kind whatsoever. Give me a call 86633788.

It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I'm still waiting, honestly, still waiting a solid Bible based argument against I'm still waiting. Haven't heard one yet offered solid arguments for Calvinism. I've heard solid arguments for different end time schemes. I've heard solid arguments from rabbis objecting to Jesus being the Messiah that require careful and thoughtful answers. I've heard solid challenges to the goodness of God from atheists and agnostics that require good, thoughtful answers, and then again as I said within the faith. Obviously, I believe everything I hold to, but I don't hold everything with tremendous dogmatism.

The fundamentals of the faith. The life-and-death issues.

Those are hills all die on and I believe very strongly about other issues, but here it. I debated someone on replacement theology. I think it's very clear that God's promises to Israel remain. But there versus that are raised that many people say yeah that speaks against it. I understand I understand that but I get here with all respect to cessation scholars. Some are colleagues of mine at seminaries and things like that. I've yet to hear a solid Bible based argument against the gifts of the spirit.

You see about but we prayed for weeks for this for months, or for years for this person be healed there whenever you and I laid hands on a man last night with the degenerative condition in his bones and he said others who pray for me, asked me for prayer on a sauce. Still some of the water today. My heart goes out to him. He wasn't heal people say what about that or what about these weird prophecies are heard didn't come to pass. This church like it was shouting in tongues at the same time. It was weird okay all those are valid questions but none of them address the question was the Bible say that that's the issue for me that's that's the authority for me why.

The why believe in divine healing today have I seen miracles.

Yes, I have I have have I seen as many miracles as I want to see for the glory of God and to help the suffering world. No no no no no luck at five. I'm not primarily call to healing ministry and I don't have the gift of healing, but not pray for people in wheelchairs and haven't seen them walk there. Pray for blind people have seen them see not there. People pray for that have miraculous testimonies and summits. Many, many years later, they share with joy what God did for them back then how they were healed and delivered and it is wonderful. Praise God it a glorious art. I rejoice over that and I have friends that if that is in the dead rise. I have a mean every day the week but it's happened over the decades of their ministry, and I know others of pray for people right Verizon with with white glossed over eyes you can see pupils people blind in front of their eyes you eyes created they see it and documented healings of the death and dinnerware were people of gone with hearing equipment for you know from medical organizations or from universities to verify healers and found consistent healings, blindness, deafness, documented stuff talked about that with Randy Clark but I don't primarily believe I'm in healing because of what I've seen. I primarily believe in it because it was written because it was written in Scripture. That's why believe it. So to me this is not the easy thing or the crutch and and and in fact your faith gets challenged. It's a lot easier say God doesn't humor. I consider them and he might so Lord, your will be done every so often here for miracle but we don't expected it challenges your faith a lot more when you pray for the sick, the fact is there.

There will be questions that we don't have answers for. But we trust God. Nonetheless, because he's good and is true to his work and there will be abuses. There were abuses in in in first Corinthians that Paul is dealing with abuses with tongs, abuses of the Lord's supper so is that a fair question to ask, do we not partake of the Lord's supper anymore because of the abuses that Took Pl. in Corinth or through abuses taking place today or do we do it right. If there abuses in tongues. If there abuses and prophecy do we not practice these things or do we rather follow the biblical admonition to earnestly pursue the gifts, especially prophecy, and not to forbid tongs. I say we follow what Scripture says and with the things that are out of order.

We correct them. So it is something fascinating and by the way, if you think what why aren't I putting the callers on all the cessation of the skull with Reitman so I took some calls earlier people just had questions one arguments, but I've been inviting people of inviting people for years to call in with their best cessation's arguments and I am not hearing from them but it's an odd thing to me. If you're so sure that you're on the side of Scripture. If you so sure that Scripture back your position. I think at the very least, you want to raise a verse, especially when I say I have never yet this is in 46 years in the Lord.

This is in buying books in the late 70s early 80s to try to convince myself that the gifts were not for today. The tongues was offered today. The prophecy and healing were not to be normative today that reading those books trying to convince myself I thought doesn't work to freely swimming against the tide to try to get the Scriptures to teach these things and in the same thing with all respect to Dr. Zacharias try to use first Corinthians 13 is basing his whole argument that we will pursue the guess because the gifts of sees that he was, he was not able, he was not able to tell us what exactly they ceased, which is fascinating enough in such a dramatic thing. The way he related from first Corinthian's 13 you think you be able to have sweaty contents exactly when that we don't pursue them as they stop the civil people say they're still here in the Bible sister pursue them.

Song of the with the Bible says unless you show me something later in the Bible says don't pursue them anymore. These verses that run earlier no longer apply. So with all respect, I'm still waiting to hear one solid argument for secessionism. Now some several of you can have prophecy because prophecy then challenges Scripture prophecies on level of Scripture. Prophecy is a word from the Lord.

It's it's the Lord speaking is thus saith the Lord, and therefore if we are prophecy today then then we that we challenge the close kind of Scripture that would be adding to verses in Revelation 22 says not to add or take away etc. etc. but what about all the prophecies that Were Taken Pl. in New Testament times. Why were they written down. Scripture is there one Scripture is ever understood.

There's a difference and went to Paul's letter to the Laodiceans. This letter written by an apostle right like first Corinthians of second Corinthians, Romans or Ephesians or Galatians or these other letters and and yet we don't have them in our Bible we know he wrote it does. They tell the Colossians to read the letter that was written to the Laodiceans is not our Bible so Paul could write something that was apostolic in an apostolic authority and yet not be part of Scripture and there could be a prophecy you know you are you are earnestly praying Lord we don't know if were supposed to hear one of my friends was pastoring in Gig Harbor and in the state of Washington and and he he had us.

The human thought that God was he was successful good church.

Everything healthy. He felt God was calling him to leave their and to move to another part of the United States and a prophetic brother came up to us that I have a word for you sit on the word means with the Lord says the gig is up and he was living in Gig Harbor okay and that was direct. In a word from the Lord, for it was not Scripture doesn't add to the Bible or take away from the Bible in any way, but even so, was it have to do is say the gift of faith the gift of miracles with gifts of healing that have those have nothing to do with Revelation. Those are just part of our ongoing walk with the Lord.

What about those gifts so here's what I found pretty consistently as I've dealt with cessation us is that many of them have had bad experiences there were prophecies that their father would be healed and in these pray for when he died, or there were bogus prophecy spoken over someone where there were spiritual abuses and because of that people reject it. The work of the Spirit for today. I grieve over that. I hate that that happened.

I'm sure it's happened many times my latest book, playing with holy fire, which I strongly encourage you to get deals with abuses in the charismatic Pentecostal church, so by all means, let's address those abuses and I believe we have not done an adequate job of self policing. I believe that and I said in the book so by all means. I grieve over those who had bad experiences in the Pentecostal charismatic movement because, which they left the churches or and there's a hat I'm in this Baptist church that is Bible church. I love it. People there love the Lord their solid believers on skin or the flaky stuff ice on the Pentecostal church were serious about teaching Scripture make disciples that's awesome I love that I love that you're healthy and in a healthy church that's wonderful.

I just say that there there other things God wants to do as well that are asked of his compassion and kindness and love and power.

There other things he wants to manifest in terms of disempowerment, spiritual sees everything he has, but I'm thrilled that you're in a healthy place. That's great. Keep growing in it. But what I found so many is that their beliefs were not based on Scripture, their beliefs were based on experience. Now I know the opposite is well.

I know many people who were non-charismatic who became charismatic when they were healed, who became charismatic after a supernatural gift was was manifest and here I mean look what I might want to dear friends in evangelist was was is also a trainer and when he had more time before struggling so much. You come by my house and put me through these torturous workouts and he came over one day Smitty got here would happen and he was he was at its search service ministering after this before. It's a sweet story. He was at this church service ministering any central woman that we there's an unstable woman you try to reach her. But she said yes you supposed to come tonight, but she didn't come. He said text her and ask her is my Bellavita mean anything to you. So she text the ladies because I got a tattoo on my arm and just got her attention that God knew who she was. She came the next night and received the Lord asked him to forgive her for her sins. So friends let's go back to Scripture and let's ask what does the Bible say what does the word say about the gifts and power of the Spirit for today asked that simple question and I can show you verse after verse say expect these things believe these things. Please continue unless you can show me versus saying that those of why anymore. Ask God for everything he has by Jesus touched on WorldPay friends Brewer asked Dr. Brown.org PSK dear Brown, the Lord my video debate with Dr. Zacharias is now able