A Powerful Ex-Gay Testimony

Is it true that someone can actually come out of homosexuality lead a brand-new life stage for the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Burrell your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown friends and welcome to the line of fire. We got ready testimony of encouragement for you today practical scripture based Jesus exalting that will bless you deeply listen if you yourself struggle with some area of sexual brokenness. If you identify proudly as LGBT Q if you're the parent of someone who identifies as gay or lesbian or bisexual or transgender or something else. I encourage you listen to today's broadcast. If you got a friend you think this is relevant for share that with them.

You will hear love. You will hear truth, I'm in Wisconsin sitting with pastor Philip Lee who leads his way out ministries based in California his way out.com, and Philip himself has a remarkable testimony of salvation conversion and transformation. A man who was same-sex attracted heavily involved in homosexual lifestyle out and proud when the Lord saved him when he was in his 30s, but as we met at a conference run.

Speaking in Wisconsin folks told me about this picture. This picture and and I want to start with this photograph which in a sense says it all. But Philip, welcome to the broadcast. Thanks much for joining us greatly.

Thanks much for having me right so tell us about this picture. The picture was taken in 1983 and was a group photograph of 22 men average age of 25 we had gathered at the Russian River resort which is about 60 miles north of San Francisco just for a day to join Windows company have a barbecue hang out 22 men, average age 25, coming from various professions of light. We had a nuclear physicist, registered nurses, teachers, special artists and photographers 1983.

22 men, average age 25. My very best friend at the time of this gathering was a professional photographer and on this particular gathering on this date, he took a group photograph which I am in the picture. The 22 men today all of the men except for myself, are gone.

Tragically, each man passed away of AIDS.

The greater tragedy is I'm not sure that even one died knowing Christ. Now I can reach back a lot of long ways back all really to the early 1980s, and I was then living in San Francisco and I watch on my own two eyes.

What then unfolded was the AIDS epidemic. Now it's a pandemic. Of course some ideas closest friends were the first to pass away of this terrible terrible disease. My concern remains today because even though here we are in 2018. Not a lot has changed except for the wonderful advancement, and treatment. If you know your HIV-positive on the proper medications in on a normal lifespan.

Otherwise, no treatment likely very very short so the reality is still very much just that a reality right so Philip again. One picture says a thousand words. And as we were sitting at the table talking folks again. Most of the people in that picture were passed away some years back and and again all of them deceased. As of now, of let's go back in your earlier life. At what point growing up did you realize you are attracted to the same sex. That's first thing and then secondly, at what point did you embrace it and became part of your identity as a boy I began to sense certain feelings and emotions service of stirring. That's how I would label it didn't have a name I couldn't quite put my finger on what was going on, something just wasn't right. But around the age of 13, I became acutely aware that what was going on was my own trouble with my own attraction to the same sex and I was terrified at that point because it certainly wasn't something that I sought when something I wanted to come into my life. The age of 13, I became aware of my own homosexual tendencies. But fast forward a few years at the age of 18. I made the conscious choice to embrace what many referred to as the gay identity and that's where I stayed in the age of 18 to the time I was 35 years old. Those 17 years were habitually spent practicing what men refer to again as a gay lifestyle, I thought initially anyway, at the very beginning that I was good. This is just the way it was. It felt right. But later on I came to understand that I had bought into a lie and I had really really found myself in a very deep entrenched trap thinking for the most part, as so many others.

There is no way out of it. Do the best you can just bite the bullet and get on down this journey called life right now. You were in the midst of this working with United Airlines you can fly anywhere and not fly constantly and it would seem to be just by behavior matters and things like that that you have a higher percentage of flight attendants would be out and proud gay men, and then your average society and that it tended to be a good lifestyle to your travel around and meet people. Is that an exaggerated false stereotype you that I have no II would agree with due to a large degree. And you're right, I did work United Airlines. It was nothing for me to board a plane on a Friday night in San Francisco fly to New York for five hours through 10 a party and again the saying it was it was a gay old time. It was initially in some respect because the party was on, but eventually paid a comes and there again is where I found myself like so many others I had bought into the lie. Once gay, always gay. I did know was a way out and during my 17 years living as a gay guy gay identified man in the cities of Los Angeles services for New York City during the 17 years I never had even one time a Christian approach me and said you know Michael, there's a way out of that I'm not offering as an indictment on the church.

My point is this. It would've been nice to have had the option to know that there was a way out but I was never sure that I will will come back to questions what was happening in California, which wants to make it illegal to say there is a way out again similar the ministry his way on his way out.com but you did have some people approach over the years that were hateful even physically assaulted. So what did you associate with Christianity in those days. My initial reaction to the majority of Christian was no thank you, because again the questions that I did have limited interaction with the conversation was not very positive. If you will, and it was a point to that I was in jumper one afternoon and beaten because I look gay identified sunset outside the fence and we've been very very easy just to love all Christians in one bill, saying Christians church. No thank you, but thankfully I did not do that to something happened now in your own family and in this is pivotal for your life transformation since the tell us the story.

My family specifically, my mother, my stepdad and my younger brother of eight years. I did not know that they had each surrendered their lives to Christ sun coming up from San Francisco to Bakersfield which is about a 3 mile distance and down to visit family for a week and I walk into our home, and the atmosphere in our home amid the meter my stepdad. I thought something's different.

I noticed also to in each room of the home, various versions of the Bible, TV, and is blurred across the television and its God.

This Jesus that and my initial reaction was Josh, but the change in their lives was profound and everything that I had tried even be highly successful in the world and living again the gay lifestyle thinking okay this is it. It wasn't working. I was always coming up short in the change in their lives, caused me to take a step mango must be something to this Jesus if they have found something there lies a just exude joy and I was absent of joy completely and totally so I spent the time with my family. I'm now living in Bakersfield.

I leave my family home go back to my own apartment.

It's October 5, 1985 and I'm sitting on the edge of my bed about 6 o'clock in the evening and out of my mouth, came these words. Jesus, if you're really real. I need you to come and I need you to come right now and I knew from that simple prayer I knew as I rose to my feet.

I knew my life would never ever be the same again and it has not all involvement. Homosexuality came to an immediate halt. I was only involved the party lifestyle so all drinking and drugs came to us. Screeching halt to qualified individuals dog on cigarettes will be finally dealt with both as well, but one of the miracles and really to me like I don't know how else to describe except say that's a miracle. I couldn't wait to get to church and I find myself knowing the first church.

I'm sitting there and I have this expectation a church because I wasn't raised in church or Christian family environment. I thought the organ would be immuno playing is like oh my Lord who died and I thought people just be sitting there like stiff cardboard and the place erupted in this joy and people were shouting and and praising and hands went up and I can look around if at all these poor people done lost their minds. And I know they look to be thinking the same thing, but I liked what I saw and thank God. Thank God for senior and associate pastor one got on each side of me and they love me through a process they mentored me the disciple meet. They poured their lives into mine. So at the age of 35.

This is all happening at the age of 35. I'm finding for the first time in my life not only what it meant to be a man but more ponder what it meant to be a godly man. I liked what I saw.

Then I like it still right. So friends remembered Philip did not have a testimony of bisexuality because we always with assistance. Things escape so if if you if you're attracted to the opposite sex that either you or bisexual which was not the case with Philip or you're lying to yourself and and and the fact is what I meant Philip and Ed II asked him his own stories and so you don't exist mentally to start of the smile because that's what the world has to say because this idea that there can be transformation from homosexuality, which I always just assumed was the case transmission from anything until I heard people say no, not this you can change its orientation towards your fixed its innate and mutable, etc. so people like Philip in the ministry that you are under tremendous attack. We just got a minute and 1/2 before the break, but Philip do you see others you have a unique testimony, but just very briefly do you see others also experience freedom because you been on the front lines, ministry, and for many years now, our issue is the exception and and really don't know any other people like you or Gino others like you. I actually know an abundance of men and women around the world that experience change menus minimum and have gone on to marry and have families and some of elected to remain single. But here is the important factor. I don't know of a single man or woman that's gone to the transformation process. If you will. I don't know the any man or woman is been able to accomplish that, apart from a deep payment personal, intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. At the very beginning of the process and throughout still ask yourself the question, which do I want more. It whatever it is, in my case it was same-sex attraction for Jesus and I wanted Jesus more than anything else. I tried because I tried every had offer and I always came up short by friends. We've got a lot more discussion with Philip Lee you talk with them. He spent time with them. You say here's a disciple here's a serious follower of Jesus who loves the Lord and who loves others as well.

And yet he's concerned about political issues and cultural issues, but beyond that his focus is individuals. Individuals individuals. So we want to bring this message of hope and salvation and transformation will ask the question what about those who try to change can conversion therapy, so-called dangerous of what's happening in California take this all on website his way out.calm will be right here on the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks friends for joining us today on the line of fire. My special guest Philip Lee.

His website his way out.com is way out of what will in particular, homosexuality in particular aspects of sexual brokenness so Philip you shared your testimony and Wendell the Lord dramatically safety after from the ages 18 to 35, 17 years given over to gay identity, gay pride gay party life's promiscuity drugs everything it meant in your own life. The Lord dramatically changed before we talk about the change.

I want to ask a question we have had the push for redefining marriage and and the Supreme Court officially made an outrageous change. A couple years back and said that marriage could be union of any two people so to man or two women and interestingly, in the earliest days of gay activism.

There was a lot of opposition to that in probably to this day there. Many says just a patriarchal old institution so might my question is this, again, it's a general question, but you will quote in the lifestyle 17 years with folks that you know every aspect business world and social life that live this out.

Did you find that there were a lot of solid long-term committed relationships in the same way that you see that in the heterosexual world. No, absolutely not.

In particular to men, two men stood together even for five years. That was a milestone. Most relationships against being primarily of men, but it's equally true of the ladies stay together for any length of time is almost unheard of insult, no art salinity.

They push little further to be the devils advocate here were the gay activists advocate well that's just because of societal understanding and homophobia, and because we we want regular relationships.

What recognizes marriage, which recognize them as marriage. Everything changes you actively do ministry in the homosexual community today what your response to that first and foremost regarding her back to Scripture and every biblical example of marriage within Scripture is always between a man and woman suffered to people of the same gender. From the very beginning you're going against the grain. You're going to bring against God's perfect design is divided to human sexuality, same-sex marriage, and I find it intriguing that often we start speaking to her, referring to the gay community were often presented that the gay community.

Is this a unified front and nothing could be further from the truth within the gay community. There are many gay identified men and women they don't agree with the word gay they think same-sex marriage is a total joke so united front. Even in some of these issues they don't agree right. So is there more that say you have two gay men. So of course. Generally speaking ill men be more oversexed than women. And you know the whole in the marital relationship in the woman's got the headache of the other man's get more the sex drive in all of this so you get man plus man, you don't have the tempering effect of the woman on his life. It's it's easy to understand how Memphis man is going to have more promiscuity, less faithfulness, less domestication.

In that sense. But is it true that even with gay male couples, even those that are supposed and committed relationships that they're still testing more promiscuity with the recall open marriages.

Personally speaking, again referring to two-man level of sexual promiscuity is extreme. It's very very hot out there.

Assuming there are exceptions to mentor women to remain faithful to one another, but the level of sexual promiscuity.

When the gay community. Gay couples is extreme. It's extremely extremely high. Yet again this is everything I've read. This is what I read, even gay publications and and ultimately we know that there are two men. They could be listening right now is to look. We love each other your church… Guy talking about that we should be promiscuous when not now or what you lady say look, we been together 20 years were faithful to each other, raising her family were were good people in the community. We don't drink we look at hi etc. and some not denying their existence, but at a certain point when you look at, say, rates of depression. When you look at suicide when you look at substance abuse and you find all these things higher among those who identify as LGBT Q you can't just blame societal homophobia and transfer of you have to say this is not what God designed us for exactly and also because once again personally speaking. Unfortunately, the men that I personally knew that took their own lives and committed suicide.

Each of them and that I personally knew that occurred in their life, not because they were trying to resolve your issue of same-sex attraction. It literally happened in their lives or their celebration of gay know this is true across the board for all gay identified men and women but I think the majority the party is on and as a result a lot of sexual promiscuity, a lot of drinking, drugs, etc. it comes with the identity permitting.

Not all the fermenting right so in your own life when you talk about overnight.

You broke away from homosexual practice and drugs do you mean that you just stopped the party scene while still being attracted to the same sex or did you actually experience a change in your sexual desires and romantic attractions in my life. It was dramatic it was, not just the stopping of being involved in homosexual relationships. The party scene, etc. it was just a complete turnaround of no longer wanting that whatsoever in my life in any aspect on any level, and it was quite dramatic. It it did absolutely so many ways. It shocked me.

I mean, my attitudes and my new desires and direction in life was the complete opposite of what I had spent the past 17 years, living as a gay identified man so II cannot offer any other explanation other than intervention of Jesus himself because it was dramatic yeah and and those who those who say why believe that. So the question is using God the creator can do all kinds of things you can save some reprobate center who is a real, violent, profane person and make that person. It's like a Mother Teresa, but he can't change someone sexual desires romantic attraction what what kind of nonsense is that but certainly you know people who tell you I tried I tried to change. I went to therapy I went to counseling and it got me more depressed, and it got me more upset. You know, and that that's why can't have anything to do this religious stuff or God stuffer. I justly God made me gay because you minister to folks like this, day and night, not just in America but in other countries as well. Surely you're the stores number one do you believe those stories that people say tried to change and I couldn't number one and number two would you say to someone is now lost hope in God because that there are men and women around the world and attempted to change resolve your issue.

Same-sex attraction and they fell back they did not experience the healing of the transformation that they expected in some cases demanded and so they took it as an opportunity, but this doesn't work, I again have to point us to Scripture.

The classic passage of first Corinthians chapter 6 verse nine through 11 verse 11 in the passage is and this is what some of you were God really clearly says in his word change is possible. It's absolutely right there, it's crystal clear. So again I do appreciate. I know they're minimum it made her check of the journey, and they fell backward.

I thought I didn't identified this in many of the lies. It takes a lot of work it takes is dying to self.

Takes a lot of application one of identifying a lot of men in particular over the years that I believe they were sincere. The beginning of a journey.

They really wanted to leave gay behind and all of that represented and entailed, but they didn't want to do the work and this may seem overly simplistic, but this is where I think we all have to ride with its mission, same-sex attraction. One of the habit may be whatever the compulsive behavior. Which do I want more. It whatever it is for Jesus and that's what it takes you. It's it's interesting when I got free from drugs. I got free overnight and I didn't go through heavy withdrawal and I was addicted to the needle more than anyone drug but I couldn't imagine life without this without symmetry. I was free and it's not just that he took that away. Jesus came in and and that made all the difference. But I was a drug addict like 20 or 30 years was to very intense years 14 to 16 drugs day and night and getting wonderfully safe. But I was addicted to bad food and and for the first 59 years of my life.

I was an unhealthy either ice of Oreos for breakfast. As a boy I was a lifelong chocoholic and then when I would break every so I break it near my best and have chocolate like one day a month for you know in a year and but I fall back you know and and then your pizza, pasta and breads that I was literally addicted to these things. I found it far more difficult to get to give up chocolate and to give up heroine I what I went through withdraw three days of miserable withdrawal. All the food poisons, leaving my body and and when God help me to change my lifestyle. August 24. Makes four years. We help me to do that. I knew supernatural grace was that you don't mess with it so I don't deviate. I simply don't deviate now it's possible that I have a sunflower seed was solid and it may not have it may have been roasted rather than raw and I had it my salad and salad but I do know that planning that that's the level of deviation that might happen, but what I found was don't play games with it and and I consciously talk to people that want to change diapers is a big struggle yet have food to live right is even stronger drive and sex right you know ultimately refused food and water and in yet. I see people constantly falling back falling back falling back falling back and they're praying and they're trying it's like when you can play games that you can open the door and I imagine in certain ways, compulsive behaviors, deep addictions. It's the same you got a minute but to speak today I I relate in a different way. But again, as I shared when a sermon like Christ all sexual activity.

Stop all drinking stop all drug intake stop, but it took quite a while, the public victory over the dog on cigarettes and I got a tear when I stand before our Lord give an account of my life as a father, homosexuality drugs, drink what was the deal with the cigarettes. I finally got victory over the cigarettes through a three day fast and that's what it took. It took fasting, sending a message to gods they look on sincere about this. I know this is not healthy is not a good witness would send me to help but it's not a good thing but it was it was really really trying to for a long long time. It's a friends list. I want to encourage it. Whatever you going through what whatever situation you in whatever the behavior whatever desires sexual or otherwise, throw yourself wholly on the Lord put your trust in Jesus as Savior. If you fall your face 10 times today.

Get up and see Jesus, I trust you, Jesus, I trust you wash me clean and then there practical steps that can be taken, and sometimes you change your environment. You make other decisions before you get to a certain point, but there is freedom for any gangs give this horse can find out more of these ministry by going to his way out.com a lot more regular.

What was happening, gives the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH dear Jim is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks much for joining us on the line of fire. I am in Wisconsin and we got a special broadcast for you to them not taking calls and sitting here with Philip Lee, Pastor Coakley, his ministry, his way out.calm his weight out ministries Philip himself had a dramatic conversion after living as an out and proud gay man from the ages of 18 to 35 miraculously saved as he cried out to the Lord after his family members were saved. So the dramatic change in their lives cried out to the Lord and instantly in his case instantly was set free from homosexual practice and desires as well as drug addiction and an outdoor drug use and alcohol instantly set free. Others have struggled for years in the growth process one step at a time. That's his own testimony and story, but he knows many others are many different levels of the journey who have come out of homosexual practice and were following Jesus today because of that people like Philip just seeking to go about their lives in you ministry that I try to be famous or be poster boys of anything because they exist.

That is a constant challenge to the gay activist movement which says you're born this way and you cannot change. This is innate and immutable. It is no different than skin color and therefore there must be civil rights just like you have for ethnicities and for people of different of skin color and not only that you you you must pass bills against the so-called conversion therapy. It's like snake oil.

It it it is is false hope and false practice, and it drives people to despair and it drives people to suicide.

And right now there's an attempt in California to literally make all counseling professional counseling Christian or secular for anyone with unwanted same-sex attraction or anyone suffering with gender identity struggles make it illegal to help them change we give them counsel so Philip your your your based in California. Your primary focus is people, not issues, but people yet.

This has to concern you. So give us a feel of what's happening in California how bad it is. And yet, maybe some positive you see with churches waking up apps for your home base of operations in Bakersfield California present almost right in the middle between Los Angeles and San Francisco sermon respectively are strategically placed, but our ministry proclaims that freedom from homosexuality is possible through a personal, intimate relationship with Jesus Christ not being a Christian ministry. Everything we do is based upon the holy Scriptures and we believe Scripture is abundantly clear that yes change is possible, because God said so, but for a while now, and even as we speak. There have been a few bills. One in particular is assembly Bill 29, 43, which is far-reaching, that would outlaw everything that we do primarily his way out ministries medical discipleship care groups, workshops, seminars, etc. this particular Bill 2943 would make that all illegal. In other words minimum coming wanted to address and resolve the issue same-sex attraction this bill if it's passed with him at us from doing that matter-of-fact. The bill also seeks to prohibit the sale of any literature books or taking in money for people wanted to attend a workshop to cook themselves in the subject to be more effective in reaching other struggling with this unwanted form of brokenness, pro-gay activists have been very very creative very, very strategic and that again they don't want anyone to profit in any way from helping someone so with this bill. If someone came my way. Let's say a man says I'm struggling with pornography and I asked is it same-sex pornography or heterosexual monogamy. If he said same-sex pornography on this particular Bill I had looked this man's that I can help you.

In other words, those that are struggling with same-sex attraction. This process, you gotta stay that way. You cannot seek help.

So it's a very, very dangerous bill but is far more reaching than that because it really is an assault.

It is really an attack upon the authority of Scripture. Yeah and and someone told me whether he or they may talk about book sale and maybe that is ownership to ban the Bible effectively, but this is a frontal assault on freedom of religion, conscience, speech in California. It's a horrific bill. It's only being discussed and and on its way potentially to passing because there is been so little opposition to the many other bills that are passed on to outlaw this for minors, so a 17-year-old boy who was raped repeatedly by his uncle say from the ages of 8 to 13 and found himself same-sex attractions troubled by it feels contrary's religious beliefs and his parents.

He was standing with you. It's illegal for him to get professional counsel.

On the other hand, if it's 11-year-old girl who believes she's a boy trapped in a girl's body. She can going to counseling. In California they could put her on hormone blockers to stop the onset of puberty and then when she's 19 years old. Recommend sex change surgery and hormones for life that's legal. I mean it. It is utterly outrageous, so we know the outrageous nature of the bill the insane nature of the bill with all respect to those who say why try this conversion therapy it didn't work's sake will find people go for counseling for all kinds of things.

Her treatment of schizophrenia and eating disorder. A million other things and some succeed and some don't. And in fact used to make the argument that you have far more success than thin people helping alcoholics and children of alcoholics and things like that but I hear reports I just get a detailed report from a Christian physician in California about churches rising up legal size rising up people like you getting features with testimony. So tell me the good that's happening in California, which is been so complacent with some of these issues could get a lot of churches the B churches if they all stood up and turned the tide quite some time ago what's happening is positive. Will I remember those individuals believe that the church holds the answer to this crisis that we face is an ongoing crisis and because of the particular bills I am seeing the church at large rallying and coming more to the forefront. Six hole in just a moment and they are defending the Lord your Christ and the authority of Scripture and the person's right to say I want to address this.

I want to see change in my life and your social right. This goes so much further beyond just the whole subject matter of homosexuality and lesbianism. It really is about a person's right to say look I want help and that person deserves a right to be able to choose yes so again your you are saying you cannot choose you. You have no liberty here.

There is no patient client Dr. patient really is nothing you do not have the right, even to to try to change or look for options and it so completely, utterly outrageous and again it's it's part of the gay activist style that those who come out of the closet want to put others in the closet and anything I can be of threat has to be shut down so friends keep praying in California for California. Keep praying for churches to awaken different larger churches that didn't normally get involved or getting involved are getting on the front lines and there there reaching out with love and compassion to those who are struggling right one quick word I got this on Monday but didn't get to address it in the Monday broadcast the ADF your stiffening freedom has just sent out an announcement about Darrell Stutzman so this is the forest woman in her 70s grandmother she is. She is had gay employee.

She had a great relationship with key customers for years. A few years back. One of the regular customers came in and said to her. Hey my part and are getting married would like you to do the floral arrangement and she took him by the Hansens. The hardest thing she ever did and said sorry can't do that is for.

This is a work of art and social serve anyone nearby forest.

She had gay folks work for her, but she could not do floral arrangement for same-sex wedding ceremony and then she recommended some of the forest and then she talked to the guy who's your walking down the aisle is that this you know for years will anyway when the thing goes public. I think through that guy's friend and attorney general finds out rather they tried to destroy her. Not not just hurt her in her practice, but to even take which he owns privately and in savings and how I mean is been a brutal attack in the Washington Supreme Court overwhelmingly ruled against her Academy masculine nine nothing. If I if I remember.

In any case, the Supreme Court has now made a decision to act on this another not taking of the ruling, but they have sent it back to the Washington Supreme Court and they have said look at our verdict based on masterpiece cakes with Jack Phillips with a rule 72 that that the the Colorado commission that ruled against Jack Phillips in a similar situation. His cake baking a cake for same-sex quote wedding ceremony that you buy anything you want strawberries I can create something suddenly differed with which a certain artist right 100% well. The court ruled, not that freedom of religion tromped freedom from discrimination say it is a gay person but they said that the decision against him was based on religious animus animus towards religion, hostility towards religion which is completely unconstitutional, so they said based on our ruling go back and revisit this because Washington state came against this woman's religious beliefs. So this is major and this this could be the beginning of some of the pushback that we talk about but let's talk about individuals not because this is ultimately appropriate for your heart is helping individuals of we got 02 and half minutes before this break once the church done wrongly where if you can help us see blind spots or things we've done wrongly were things that we haven't and right in terms of helping those who identify as LGBT. By and large the church is still remain very very reluctant to educate themselves on this topic to sit across from a gay identified man or woman they simply offer it's wrong is not good enough especially in this day and age minimum of that are sincere about addressing this aspect of their life. They are going to need a lot of log encouragement and support for the journey and it is a journey it's a process, start talking about process were always talking about an element of time again and I really change if you can, because word of God says you can't very next question normally out of that man.

Her latest mouth is. How long is this going to take. And God chooses to work sovereignly differently from life to life to life, but once again, we've got to keep the right perspective, this is all about people, people whom God loves people for whom Jesus died, but the church, by and large, really needs to step more to the forefront and educate themselves on this because we've got to be able to provide answers and a glove, encouragement, support they're going to need I we come back within a probe this more where some of the answers and and I know today you did a workshop on on reaching gay kids the youth. How do we do that. So what will it talk about those things and friends were not taking calls today. I know bunch of you have questions but there are many fine ministries helping people his way out, based in Bakersfield California but material on the website.

There his way out.com.

If you're looking for someone to connect with in other parts of America go to restored hope network.org restored hope network.org friends and colleagues of mine and Phillips involved there. This is a network of ministries helping people struggling with unwanted same-sex attraction or gender identity confusion.

My book can you be gay and Christian.

You'll find very helpful no reason not to be educated. If you want to look at the social issues, my books, a queer thing happen to America and outlasting the gay revolution and then were constantly writing about the so many articles probably hundreds at this point, and videos. A lot of these resources free on our website. Ask Dr. Brown.org a SKU or Brown's Alexa search for digital library search. That's why we have a fear minister usually yes the social issues are even more visuals for Jesus died that we can reach with a message of hope and new life. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks much for joining us today on the line of fire.

To my delight to talk to Frank Coakley.

We met at a conference in Wisconsin at a beautiful retreat center here and of medially told some friends we have in common, so that made him are friends of her historian testimony like so many others delivered from homosexuality and and even more serious disciples because God saved them out of something that was his whole life and now Jesus has become his whole life. You have a heart for gay youth and of course today. This is almost the cool thing kids coming out of the cool thing, one middle school teacher told in favor of all this said that a 12-year-old and her school came out. This is couple years ago were talking on the plane. She said he came out as gay, and then the next he came back and said can I take that back. I think I made a mistake.

Seven. Just get here about all the time and then you see you know someone on TV was transgender and and there's just a lot that's out to normal. Normal celebrate I a written survey that kids in California were asked about gender identity and 27% said they were confused about it. Certainly a lot of that is the spirit of the time, spirit of the age. One in particular would you say to us he's important things about reaching gay young people that may be different than reaching the older generation in my 25 years as a director of Israel ministries and I have the privilege of sitting across from you young man young lady struggling with sexual identity or the issue same-sex attraction.

If there's one question they asked me apart from all others. Is this there are so many mixed messages being generated today on the subject of homosexuality. Where do I find truth the only truth I know on the subject matter.

We've got to go to the word of God. Very, very concerned about youth in particular because most youth today on the subject matter they are learning more about homosexuality from movies, the Internet and television than they are in church. God has a lot to say about his divine intent on human sexuality. In this word if God could talk about the subject matters, including human sexuality, we can as well and there again is where I think the church is dropped the ball were not educating as we should have were not educated today as we must because there are a lot of individuals sitting in our churches week after week after week. We have hidden mission fields in her own congregations that are struggling with the boldness of same-sex attraction, additional pornography, sex before marriage, etc. and I really believed her large agreement just really dropped the ball and not addressing us and letting people know there is help and the providing that help a safe haven for people to come and talk about this and explore and get the answers that they deserve. So let's say your youth pastor and you got 30 kids say here between 15 and 19 years old with a 13 to 19 and and some of their friends start coming may be your two girls and lesbian relationship and and it's obvious that they're there for the other coming to the youth meetings and annual you want to talk about what's right and wrong in holiness and purity. Bureaus want to bring the lost in and then the kids like what you said okay I'm in because they love each other. Is that all right. So how do you approach these things is dealing with young people want to be reaching out to a safe haven once will be able to command the open and honest but you don't want to say everything is fine. So how would you approach.

I'm very very mindful today especially that a lot of Christian men amendment thereof, sometimes almost terrified of being to blame your openness whole topic of discussion.

I would think of Jesus are perfect role model. I see in Scripture. Jesus confronted individuals all the time to visit right way and a wrong way to confront what I see into Jesus when he confronted her challenge someone he always did so with an equal balance of both truth and grace, we cannot apologize for the truth and the authority of Scripture that pertains to adult and youth also but minimum and need to be able coming our churches and talk about these real critical issues in life. If they can't come to our churches and talk about this and addresses where else are they going to go I think that's a churches responsibility and we need to step more to the forefront and offer ministry. I mean, I believe we need to continue the dialogue on the subject matter and others, but are we providing the ministry.

Also, there needs to be an equal balance right so someone comes in to to your ministry.

They call you up and it's a 30-year-old man, and as far back as he can remember he was only attracted to men. He's never been attracted to women. The thought is, repulsive to him. God's convicting him that he needs to be saved. That is not right with God and and he sees his own life spiraling out of control what happens with heterosexuals and all before background any comes in praise with you and and and ask God. Lord forgive me wash me clean. I want to live for you and receives Jesus is Lord. He goes through with anyone else would go through any other background right now this is okay for loving you had this experience happen to you readers that got changed I heard your story on the radio but I am not I'm the exact same I feel just as attracted to the other. The way I did before will do you now start to dig with MG you probed you go to the roots of things you find common denominators as to why people become same-sex train how you help that person on their journey absolutely look at and consider family dynamics to the individual in the formative years and they were little boy little girl between age of two and 11 that they have the benefit of mom and dad in the home which lends equal balance of both masculine and feminine influence in your life. What about the possibility of abuse, mental, emotional or sexual abuse. What about the temperament and interest of the individual. There are many different factors to consider.

But what's important to remember that each person is unique, individual what set me down the pathway of struggle with same-sex attraction could be very different than the next person so we can't say here's a blanket statement of why you're struggling with this now some men and women experience total eradication. Other same-sex desires coming complete total deliverance. There are others that may from time to time experience. Still, the temptation of same-sex attraction, but they have no intention of giving into it. There are others that they may find himself on a daily basis like people who struggle with drug addiction or alcoholism. They may find itself in a daily basis, strong temptation, possibly even got a bit of fall. It varies from person to person.

So can we can't just say to all people. Here's why this is happening your life and here's the formula.

This can resolve it all in your life, because we are unique individuals. Obviously, as you said the church needs to educate itself here but a big issue a big factor is simply loving people and making disciples so would you say although this is a specialized ministry and God's given you wisdom and grace and I would if someone was struggling with same-sex attraction sexual brokenness I would much rather send them to you. Vincent help to myself. I know things about this, but God's anointed you your you live. This specializes in your ministry but isn't there another aspect for your average local church or get educated understand, but is there aspect if you just love people and really points and to make disciples. That's a big part of the problem right there, absolutely, and values myself as an illustration, I am the recipient of true discipleship from the very beginning of the day that I surrender my life to Christ and interchurch. As I mentioned earlier, senior pastor and associate pastor.

The disciples knew they mentored me and they model for me what it not only meant to be a man but more importantly, a godly man.

These men and women there in such a broken state they're looking first and foremost, you generally care about me or are you just trying to win the argument on this whole subject matter and they will know within a few short minutes. If we generally care about them. Sometimes I think we as Christians on the subject matter. Certainly others. We think that we have to have an answer for everything. We should never ever minimize our presence alone because our presence to an individual struggling with same-sex attraction speaks volumes you're there for me.

You may not have all the answers.

I'll tell you what, I'll go with you to the one who does yes her friends again, even if he said I feel ill-equipped.

Are you quick to love people. Are you quick to say ham with you some calls on the phone. Let's say it's a heterosexual guy struggling with pornography. Let's say it's a heterosexual lady struggling with drinking whatever it is they call you on the phone so you messed up again with our group were breaking the stronghold of food on Facebook people.

Somebody post it's midnight and I'm in the bathroom crying. I want to go to Burger King.

I'm fighting it.

Pray for me.

You know, or someone say I'm embarrassed to say I'm starting again will we respond is love on people you love on people and for some because sexual addiction may have been so strong and promiscuous most especially for a gay man that that this you know that person may have a few more falls than somebody else along the way.

The key thing is to keep them in the right direction. Keep loving on keeping the right direction and we have to resist this whole thing, that if you struggle with temptation or if you mess up.

Once that proves you work your answer and I'm so glad you brought that because there is a one of us. When the Riemann mortgages were there 50 years. Nobody but nobody lives completely and totally free of temptation, including myself, but men in particular struggle with same-sex attraction. We must help in reporting again to education. We must have the understand that there is a world of difference between temptation and sin, but men in particular, for some reason struggle with homosexuality. When they experienced temptation to think well there it is again.

Am I getting any better.

I met and I am really truly born again brother.

It was just a temptation yeah and and again the bar is raised well then you can see your ex get you to stop the practice will first thing the Bible deals with the practice but with a million other things like I'm a married man. I'm 63 years old I've been married 42 years, I stuff to watch my eyes. It was summer time and therefore ladies get dressed in the scantily is scantily clad. I'll watch my eyes you're getting above the water and you check it out. These vile magazines as I go watch my eyes. I watch my thought life.

I live a serious life before the Lord and devoted to God I'm devoted to my wife yes so we understand anyway we tempted you be tempted to jog sometimes looked at someone think your stupid teleconference judge mental but that's not who we are. So friends, check out his way out.com, especially if you're in the California area and Anna if we had tacos asked Philip for some of his favorite favorite stories, but you have to just find out more and you'll be amazed to see if will reach out with compassion literature just below the passion golfer start sending us back will have joy simply sure to check out our latest videos on