Dr. Brown Speaks with the Benham Brothers About Being Bold and Broken

Speak with David and Jason Benner about their brand-new book, though. Talk about being broken and yet bowl stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown welcome friends. The line of fire. This is Michael Brown your voice moral sanity and spiritual clarity in the midst of a society in chaos in the church.

All too often in compromise bottom of the hour I will be joined by David and Jason Benham great guys with a great story and a great new book but the first half hour of the broadcast phone lines are open about some scriptural things I will share with you something.

I think you'll find very interesting and eye-opening, but you can ask me a question about anything under the sun. You could call give you peace your mind. If you're upset with me about something you want to talk about it. Let it out. Vent whatever's on your mind any subject that is relevant to the broadcast 866-348-7884 that is the number call and I'll get to some calls in the coming minutes.

All right. Every so often hear about a fascinating amazing Jewish tradition that I never heard of in my entire life and it will be coming from some Christian source or some popular online source so immediately I raise my eyebrows because I never heard that I never saw that now is the county.

It there's a lot of tradition in Judaism there is what's called llama Talmud, the sea of the Talmud that all of the rabbinic literature is massive and there's so much to learn so there are plenty of things that I just never heard of that may be popular Jewish traditions. I'm unaware of, or Jewish interpretations of never seen by when they're that important that theologically significant.

I often wonder is this bogus now is it would just check the source. That's the whole thing. Most of the time. There are not sources. For example, I heard for years that one of the signs of the Messiah coming of the Messiah in the Talmud rabbinic literature was that he would heal someone that was born blind, that he would heal a leper so the various ones that Jesus heals in the Gospels. These were signs that that he was the Messiah, because Jewish tradition said to expect this. I heard it many times but never seen it never found the source for talks alerted Rabbi friends of mine. They had never heard searched all the literature I could. It all literature.

I have online so I could just search for Michelle's Messiah thing never found it. And to this day have not found the source to back it. Then I found someone quoting from a certain book and they're all seem to be quoting from the same book.

I went back to the book and the book has no source so I've heard this teaching recently protesting what Craig Keener I've talked about the last trumpet, so first Corinthians chapter 15 verses 51 and 52 will begin in verse 50 Paul writing thick with you so I say this brothers and sisters, the flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God with the case cannot inherit what does not. Okay Kate behold I tell you ministry.

We shall not all sleep, we shall all be changed in a moment the truck given I the last S shofar for the trumpet, the shofar will sound the devil be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed so those children preacher refuse a year that's that's the preacher rapture that separate from the second coming. I say no that is the second coming.

That's what happens at the second coming with the Lord appears in public. Suddenly, with the blast of the trumpet, and that we are caught up to meet him in the air and we are now, his entourage escorting him as he comes to earth. It's one of the same event rapture is part of the second coming out something separated by seven years or 3 1/2 years in such and one of the arguments that Prof. Keener I raise are both not afraid of the antichrist, which again is written in irenic spirit recognize that within the body there find people differ over this issue so we don't divide over there.

We castigate those who differ. We honor them as fellow servants in the Lord and we have a respectful difference, but we point out that you have. For example, Matthew 24 the Messiah coming with the sound of the trumpet blast, so whatever arguments is if it's the last trumpet, first with his 15 then how can you have a significant trumpet associated with the second coming seven years after the last trumpet and you have a succession of seven trumpets in the book of Revelation, culminating in the seventh trumpet. The 11th chapter of Revelation words announce the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Messiah who will reign forever and ever so how can you then have seven trumpets with accommodating seventh trumpet after the last trumpet know the last trumpet is the seventh of seven. The last trumpet is the trumpet of the Lord's return. It's that's how we know it's one of the same event, one of many ways Windows when the same event I should call.

He was disappointed that Ivo people didn't understand with this is releasing no no no this is not the last trumpet meaning is a trumpet afterwards what it is it's it's the last trumpet blaster shofar blasts on your own true law. The day of the sounding of the trumpets. The feast of trumpets, which in Judaism becomes Rocephin, the Jewish new year, but the argument is that you have a series of of blasts: the total of 100 sounds and the last one to Kiana good the law, so the last great blast that's called the last trumpet so it just saying he's coming in conjunction with the feast of trumpets, that's all that it means there's only one problem. I have not found anywhere in all of traditional Jewish literature where to Kiana good the law is called the last trumpet or the last show for us not found any support for however my knowledge, like everyone else's, is limited so I contacted an ultra Orthodox rabbi, one of the most learned rabbis I know and I said to him, is it true as I've never heard this myself. Is it true that in traditional Judaism, the last of the trumpet blast is called the, the last trumpet or last shofar to Kiana could go on and he said no never heard that in my life.

He said however the trumpet of Yom Kippur, the last shofar blasts the shofar blasts on Yom Kippur, which from a pretrip mentality is at the end of the tribulation.

The day of atonement. Okay to pretrip teachers that this is the end this later.

He said that's associated with the trumpet blast Isaiah 27 and the coming of the Messiah. So according to everything I know the whole thing is a myth.

It does not exist.

No one has ever taught that that last specific trumpet blast on your own true law of the data center trumpet was called the last trumpet and that that's what Paul is referring to. Yes, Messiah is coming in conjunction with the trumpet was becoming a judge with feast of trumpets, yes, but is not a pretrip coming, he's coming with the sound is made of the trumpet that is spoken of in Matthew 24. There is one last trumpet that will last trumpet and seven years later another trumpet not one last trumpet and then seven major trumpets, no the last trumpet is the last trumpet, just like the last day is the last day so sorry to burst your bubble if you claim no, no, I have a so no, I am in quoting another author today show me the rabbinic source that says that to Kiana good the law, the last of the blasts of the shofar on your own true on the feast of trumpets that that is called the last trumpet, show me an ancient traditional Jewish source to that effect.

Of course you want to be ancient enough that Paul would've known about it in the Corinthians will have an idea about some of them came to faith in the synagogue if they would've heard about it.

If you find it great, I'll be corrected and my friend will be corrected I believe exists. Don't believe exists.

Happy to be wrong and by the way, it is still odd that the last trumpet is then succeeded, followed by seven other trumpets at and agree trumpet blast of the Messiah not solicit on the other, they will lose the trumpet. That issue is gonna sound and no incentive financial. First there's the distinction that's made this Zechariah speaks of God center trumpet because this is the co-residency. She was given some trumpet so it says that the Lord is in the sound the trumpet Zechariah 9. It could be the father could mean the so it is never explicitly the New Testament says Jesus was a trumpet. That's why I was wondering where the caller got that from. All right, 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Jesse and Arizona walking to the line of fire. Hi Dr. Brown I wanted what? I look with open all right yeah art all about your view on Christian or traditional Orient, and end up about any part of your performance tradition and think that the original church either Catholic or or about public profession.

Liturgical ritual both at the workspace document and no complaint that are essential to the gospel is an empathetic what the gospel but just when everything for the Judaizers that act like one point felt that religious ritual or liturgical like circumcision in public worship worked out, but only show up, what the recruitment is so obviously you have a position in asking a question, we recognize the importance of water baptism. We recognize the importance of communion and and we certainly recognize that every group has some kinds of traditions. The question is are the traditions good are they divinely inspired by the neutral or the bad, and I once heard a quote from churches during James Park read the quote that Catholicism is no more the religion of the New Testament than Judaism is the religion of the Old Testament is very true. The reason that I'm not Roman Catholic. The reason that I'm not Greek Orthodox is because I do not believe in the validity of the streets, traditions now some of them are fine and beautiful and edifying and life-giving and you take advantage of them in your blessed by them, but ultimately I do find things that in those traditions either add to the gospel. On some level, or distort the gospel or dilute the gospel or mistake the authority of the word for the authority of human tradition and I don't believe in the reality of the apostolic succession it's argued for an fairly early on the church we lost sight of its Jewish roots.

So I respect my born-again brothers and sisters were Roman Catholic and were Greek Orthodox, that of come to faith to know the Lord the same way I do, but I believe that many of these traditions can get in the way and that some of them were are absolutely blatantly wrong or to follow up real quick and then all will answer the inside of the break.

It'll Catholic and Orthodox Greek problem. This is the essence of this would be the same.

If you are saying is the gospel. Plus our tradition say only our tradition extra faith DOS. Then I have a real problem with death row would really say thank you sir for the home for and gives the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown, the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown 348-7884.

Let's go to Clifton in North Chesterfield, North Chesterfield, where I don't have the state of okay.welcome to the programs or.

They called old man father but get it. You so much throughout Scripture. Is there another name that they used in the Torah. No father is. It doesn't mean that you don't call your own earthly father.

Father, it means that you should not be using that in terms of your spiritual father is a title because that that belongs to God.

But everyone's call father Inaba. I'll be my father. That's yeah you call your earthly father father and you can recognize someone as a spiritual father of father in the faith, but as far as a and using it as a title. I know it's Catholic style to call the priest father I I I would rather not do that. I think it's better that we recognize the role brothers and sisters in that respect. That was Jesus point in in Matthew 23.

But calling your earthly father. Father was supposed to do that your honor your father and your mother so that's throughout the Bible. And that's exactly how it is in the Torah. What what you she was point is in Matthew 23 again is in terms of the spiritual honor that belongs only to God or setting someone above the others and and forgetting that we are all equals in that sense in the Lord that we have one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus and is not a human being who's a mediator between man and God.

That would be the emphasis their server. Thank you for asking 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go Shane and Florida.

Welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Brown on yeah I just wanted to bring up the topic of speaking in tongues and the Pentecostal church that I joined Amu the real small backward church in Georgia. They were coming down here to Florida after I already have been saved.

I didn't know much of the Bible you know their King James only people and I ran away with them because I wanted to find a place to seek the Lord away from all temptations and everything when I'm getting at the beer tire doctrine implied that the Holy Ghost comes with the evidence of tongs and like over eight month period to call me on the stand or five times thing I was going to receive the Holy Ghost. Now what does that imply that means I don't have the spirit of God with the right and reading Romans chapter 8. If you don't have the spirit of God, you belong to God so and what that did it left me vulnerable to the devil and I to go through paranoid schizophrenia was made a buck tormented by thinking himself for years over this. So I just want to pick your brain on that and one is the church airplane present that yeah it's it's it's a terrible shame that you went through that and there are some Pentecostals that have taught that and the UPC which is totally French and in certain ways. Not not in the faith of the ways on the border of that that teach Jesus. Only Jesus is the father since.

They teach that you not save if you don't speak in tongues so that puts people under tremendous pressure that that brings them is all kinds of bondage. It also makes it very easy to have a counterfeit experience reseller feels pressure to manufacture something so I understand where they're coming from. For example, Paul asked and asked 19 yes the believers that he meets in Ephesus, did you receive the spirit. When you were saved right so the beginning of the chapter asked 19 yet he asked them, meaning did you receive the empowerment of the Spirit right so all possible Sakura current Paul travel through Europe rethinking sepsis. He found some disciples and said to them, did you receive the roof code is the Holy Spirit when you believed they were fighting though we've never even heard there is a rock because we haven't heard there is a Holy Spirit so he wanted to be sure that they had received the empowerment of the Spirit that they had been immersed in the spirit and NSI would be speaking in tongues in a manifestation of spiritual gifts, something like that.

So there was a distinction between being indwelt by the Spirit, which happens the moment that were born again and then receiving the empowerment of the spirit that's that's why Pentecostals speak of what's called a second experience of your Savior born-again you have eternal life. You forgiven your child of God, but now there's there's a spiritual empowerment that God gives others a know it all happens the moment your save, but was important to teach is this Shane. The moment your save your indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The moment my save the Holy Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are a child of God. The moment that your save and that since you have the Holy Spirit. He dwells with you he leads you he guides you he speaks to you instructs you, etc. now we can debate. Is there a subsequent empowering of the Holy Spirit is Pentecostals of classically believed in. As I was taught I came to faith so I was saved within the 71 but then baptized in the spirit spoke in tongues January 24, 1972 so you can say it's a subsequent experience of empowerment with a manifestation of tongs or prophecy were spiritual gifts or people believe the moment your saved. The Holy Spirit touches you feels you know you have to walk in the fullness of that.

Either way, let's agree that the moment your born-again. The Holy Spirit dwells within you, and that there is an empowering.

God has what he wants to manifest his gifts through us that he can be glorified and we can be edified in a way that I spiritual gifts and just to clarify your business and so you're saying me of a born-again believer have the spirit of God within me when I was a chemical start.

I might not have the gift of empowerment is what your position right right a subsequent empowerment of the Spirit so again that that's how I am and how they should edit it there, you know that I sent it either maintain ever terrible point. That means that you don't have the spirit of God. I wasn't as I was and I but it was implied it was implied terrible. It's a terrible teaching. It is look when you're born-again you brought yours born-again is reasonably wet when you're born-again you will by the spirit your forgiven life. When I first declared righteous matter.

That moment you begged the Lord Jesus to fill the void.

I'm just on the truth here. I witnessed our Lord in his full glory like they did on the Mount of Transfiguration. That's where my faith came from, and that's why wanted to go see Kim in a refuge for your mean so I'm given by the father to the song. The moment I came to him and was filled with the spirit of God. That's my death, my testimony while saying thank God he kept you I hate the fact that you were taught wrongly and put under carnal pressure.

The people may been well-meaning but they they hurt you deeply and obviously became an open door for the enemy to attack thank God you come through it and think that that you love the Lord and and listened were saved by God's grace, not by her best efforts. So thank you sir for the call 866-34-TRUTH of James on Long Island. Welcome to light a fire, Michael, you're welcome quite frequently. I'm trying to get an understanding when any correlation, I know you know okay.

Distinct recording foreshadowing of the great when when when object when Jacob was fighting the angel of critical battle always been more like wrestling with the idea that you got a book he thought of God, being a guy like that you want to obey God. When you offer Isaac now and I'm looking at pretty in the garden that he was still strapped. I wanted a pet. I don't what it does what you would with. I know I don't deduct what he what what he was under a lot of spirit that the foot of his body become blood is any connection and what the right of Jacob and what would it be to what might be good could and dislocated hip and all night with an actual physical quite right.

So is it James it's it's certainly a physical fight was in his mind he's wrestling with a man who then he proceeds to some kind of divine being. And yes, you could argue that it is the son of God that was there with him. In Genesis the 32nd chapter and that's how he's able to just touch him and dislocated his hip and Jacob walks with a limp. Thereafter, with the whole thing was a spiritual battle. The whole thing is Jacob wrestling with God to get to that point of saying I won't let you go until you bless me.

So it is coming to that point of spiritual desperation because Jacob was a connive or Jacob would always find a way to know if you can get in the front door again in the side door. If you have the money he'd borrow it or steal it in with the put in contemporary terms and he made. He made it work. It was God's blessing. Plus lot of flesh and now nothing was going to work and he thought my whole family is going to be slaughtered by my brother, Esau was left alone with God. And that's when he had his breakthrough so the great spiritual lesson is right there got to that point about independence.

We couldn't let go. If to let go would be to die because he couldn't let go.

He wouldn't let go.

And then afterwards he says it's can EL the face of seeing the face of God of wrestling with God. Hosea 12 tells us he wrestled with an angel divine messenger. Yes, we understand this is a pre-incarnate appearance of the Messiah of the son of God in human flesh, so it's a great spiritual battle, but it was played out physically and absolutely exhausting way and gives us a picture of wrestling in prayer and of course Jesus was not stressed that he was suicidal. He was an earnest spiritual battle is that sweat poured from his face. As I write back friends vent about 1 mile line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH dear again is Dr. Michael Brown joining us 866-34-TRUTH I am going to be joined shortly by the brothers. They got tied up a little bit delayed in getting here but you know that means means I can take another phone call or two, so let's just see who we've gone year. I lets up with go over the Daniel in Brooklyn looking to want to fire room before I want you to breakthrough progress poorly in New York really great and just wanted to follow up with a quick question. In New York it to a lot of different your term cult groups thought of them that I've encountered is the black Israelite and my question is not about that, per se, but I, but they believe we have to keep the law. So they believe if they believe we have to keep the law so long long conversations about the law.

Read acts 15 in the Matthew or Galatians chapter 3 becomes an interest in what is Jesus.

If you love me you will give my commandments you teach even if you teach a child to breakeven the least of these commandments that will belief in the kingdom of heaven.

So the question is why you so first go through John's gospel with them right. If you will be keep my commandments and look for the wood and to lay commandments look at every single time it occurs. In no case is it referring back to the 10 Commandments Old Testament commandments is talking about his teaching love one another as I have loved you those things so he's talking about his commandments.

If you love me, keep my commitments is not talk about tour there is talk about my commandments, but do a study said okay let's let's look at the word every time until a commandment occurs in the Gospel of John sees talk about the commandments that he himself gives that's that's the right there. I actually heard of a video of your target). I will listen. Jesus is not one jot or to the lookout message right right son understanding going to take his words in context the by the way, I think that there's openness because they will have a born-again experience in the Lord and there's all kinds of deception and confusion that I mean you can try talking to them. I don't know that you can find a lot of openness right. However, that that being said, that being said, all we got guys this breaking in years running through getting in the way the camera as if were not even doing live radio TV show here that's fine this winter, the better brothers. That's just thinking commandment which want to do is not a problem but a Daniel just finished answering your your questions are of Matthew 517 to 20 were Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law to but to fulfill.

How does he fulfill it. Simple, why aren't we offering blood sacrifices, what are we going to a physical temple in Jerusalem. Why don't we need a physical earthly priesthood.

Why aren't we keeping many, many, many other commandments, why aren't we stoning people to death that don't observe the Sabbath and stoning disobedient children etc. etc. so bottom line is bottom line is that he brings fulfillment sacrificial system, everything having to do with approach regarded home etc. through his own death through his own blood he takes other things to a higher level and other things. Now they are put in their proper place to teach and instruct and also there's nowhere ever in the New Testament where Gentiles were called to be under the Sinai covenant. So, good thing to do is show them how they don't keep with themselves and then ask him why you do this this this moment admit to any change of any kind, change in priesthood but on what basis is the Messiah priest is not of the line of apparent moment admit any change that's okay. So we agree the changes come every word is important but doesn't mean that we are under the full Sinai covenant hate go run my guest are now in studio, but thanks for calling a subject we can talk about more and friends. If you're on hold will do our best to get your calls tomorrow and Friday. With that David and Jason welcome guys great to have you ask forever stuck around and honor David's fault were like Dr. B yet well that night. Assume that you need to say that all right with a tacos good the they were stopping for is not a true okay for for those in and by the way, just got guys in here but you can't see them in studio Sunday looking right at this camera right between the Benham brothers, but for those that that haven't followed your your life and your your your ministry. Just give us a quick synopsis of who you guys are and what it is that God's call.

If you do these days okay will this is David speaking I am the older of the identical twins and I'm much better looking and smarter, but anyway Jason and I we grew up our our dad was a pastor. We ended up signing baseball scholarship to play baseball at liberty University. We went there played ended up getting drafted.

I was with the Red Sox. Jason was with a lesser organization. The Baltimore Orioles I don't even know if you ever heard of them before but anyway we played minor league baseball finished and the Cardinals organization and that when we got out we decided to come to Charlotte, North Carolina, specifically Concorde right were located here and and we started real estate company. We didn't have any business training.

Our dad was a pastor but we had read through the Scriptures many times as young men growing up and out so we had biblical principles and by God's grace in 2012 we had 100 offices across 35 states and and that's when TLC came to us and made us an offer for a reality show and this was right when the Duck Dynasty was hot and a lot of other reality shows were hot on families and so they saw my brother and I and the fact that we were in real estate, but we also were identical and then we also had families we live on the same street. I'm married to Lori and Jason's married to Tori. We did not try that on purpose but dumped. I have five kids.

Jason has for so they made us an offer and while we were in negotiating with TLC. HDTV came and made us straight to series offer this it were to bypass the pilot at this point they had just signed Chip and Joanne against the fixer-upper family wonderful couple.

Great family and a and so they while they signed us. They just piloted the fixer-upper and then started running our shelf called flip it forward.

We were running commercials and just before it aired in the fall of 2014 right wing watch heard that Jason and I were getting a show with HDTV so to glad and these activist organizations then provided a brand-new story. They just pulled things out of air and said, hey, these brothers are hated some haters and bigots and whatever folks in and they sent it over HDTV and HDTV for a week fought for us. They said no that's not true. This is a narrative that been written about these brothers simply because they're pro-life and their pro-marriage and and they HDTV behind closed doors was on the phone with us saying hey guys, listen.

A lot of people believe just like you do here in Hg.

We just don't talk about it.

So don't worry about your heavy stars on this network will get past this well. Unfortunately, they couldn't get past it, because what Jason and I now know it. It's a thought Mafia that's out there. If you disagree with the radical left. Your to be bullied into submission and if they can't get guys like us to submit and begin to celebrate and participate in the lifestyles in the end to the different types of things they want us to participate in. Then they'll just target the networks or anybody that would even dare give you a platform so that's what they did.

They went after HDTV hostile social media take over HDTV called us had a conference call with the big dogs and and is in effect, the general manager was crying on the phone.

She said I can't believe this is happening to you and your brother. But we have to cancel the show so we said listen, we love you. Thank you for believing in us, but we know there's an agenda out there and and we call the Goliath agenda. I like this big beast that nobody wants to fight and we said we are not backing down because these values that we live for the Scriptures that we read bring life, they bring healing they bring blessing and if you remove those boundaries that God gives us then those blessings are replaced with burdens we went on 200 one-on-one interviews over a three week period of time and the next thing you know we wrote a book, it became a bestseller and and now we travel the country and we encourage Christians we encourage just any decent American that loves our freedoms to stand up for whatever the cost, and to be a voice so so Jason you guys have now co-authored a few books out a couple of them have read more carefully and more familiar with, but this go through the books that you've written and tell us about your newest one white why this is different than all you've written so far will we might almost be caught up with you know what what are you writing a book number 85 now 30, 36, 36, or in excess of 3680 5F you multiply that if you divide that by nine.

That's how many we now written. We just finished our fourth good as any good with Minister for so right after we got fired by HDTV. We wrote. We co-authored a book, whatever the cost basically detail in the story, teaching Christians, you know, through our story to face your fears.your dreams and live powerfully and in our second book that that that book was essentially our story, but our second book is living among lines how to thrive. Like Daniel in today's Babylon that's helping believers write their story.

Our third book. It was a really fun cut autobiographical book about our baseball story called miracle in Shreveport really teaching showing Christians how prayer works and how God is always behind the scenes putting the pieces of the puzzle together even when it seems dark even when you don't know what he's doing. He's doing something and you can trust him and that was a 20 year period of our life and that of our lives. And then this fourth book that we just released in February of this year's call bold and broken, becoming the bridge between heaven and earth, and that's a real stand in the gap book and I remember when we started to write that book ever think about you. Ezekiel 22.

A search for a man who would stand in the gap and and and of course God said but but I but I found no one in you've always been that guy for David and I that's discussed in the gap and that mentor of ours and when we wrote that book. I remember when we first started writing it. We started to think and pray through what it meant about standing in the gap and in what what was the gap that that that that actually exist. I think so many people take it for granted the others a gap in existing culture, but as we begin to pray through that I'm ever praying the Lord's prayer and I got to the first part where it says thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And I did. Right there and I thought well there's the gap.

The gap between heaven and earth. And we know that Jesus ultimately filled that gap through the his death, burial and resurrection of the cross, but he's teaching us to continue to pray that's was not just a prayer. It's about participation that God wants to continue to bridge that gap through believers to bridge the gap between God and the people who are disconnected from him and so we wrote this book bold and broken that when culture begins to rise up against God, and because a stand against your faith that believers need to stand strong and stand boldly for him, but their ditches on both sides of the road because boldness apart from brokenness makes you a bully so that's the bully is the one ditch that you can fall into when it's it's Peter when he grabbed the sword when he was startled awake and the enemy was upon Jesus and was going to take him to the cross. Peter wakes up, grabs a sword.

He's ready to be a bully, but then you've got the ditch on the other side which is brokenness apart from boldness makes you a bystander and this is Peter in the courtyard.

This was after it had already been broken, but he's like, I'm not sure Jesus is well thought he was and I don't even know who I am and he he became a bystander and he wasn't willing to actually even admit that he was a disciple of Jesus because he was scared of how he be labeled or how he be treated so you get the bystander with the bully on the other bridges that I hold and broken by David and face xenophobia like that.

It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 8664 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown and his friends friends David and Jason Bannon and they got a brand-new book bold and broken and one of the things I like best about their books and there's the back-and-forth banter just like you get with them, but they are really positive uplifting guys. They know the truth they're burdened by the truth. They been on the front lines of the pro-life movement.

Really their entire lives in an and God is using them in significant ways that they face real problems and know the pressures of the business world, their family man and yet their books are full of life, encouragement, and are super practical you can you break things down in practical ways and give people steps they can take. So it it you're not just going to get inspired but you will be given a path to take to make a difference to check out the new book bold and broken, becoming the bridge between heaven and earth. David a lot of stuff is happening in the pro-life movement now and I want to talk about an event about to take place uniquely with the unplanned movie coming out with some of the pushback against extreme laws are you seeing something different immobilizing of God's people that you haven't seen through your life. Yes, Jason. I've been in this for a long time. I remember back when we were teenage kids and our dad would we would do sidewalk counseling and ministry in front of abortion clinics in and in 1991 there were 2100 freestanding abortion clinics in America today there are less than 600 come in and also not only do we have Scripture clearly on our side but we have science, I mean the science is finally catching up with the Bible you and when you look at a 40 live ultrasound. When you begin to see and this is what the next generation. These younger generation of Americans that are intertwined in all of the political battle of a being pro-life or anti-choice you note.

It's it's interesting that these kids they look at these images they see these images and their like that's a child or baby college campuses.

Same thing. So were seeing an easy shift just simply because of the science that we have, but were also seeing Jason and I are seeing in the church as we travel the country and speak there is an awakening of the body of Christ for life you and and it's in.

It's so exciting because when we see what's happening in New York as they expand their radical abortion laws and then they celebrate well, millions of Americans are not celebrating that anymore. There there morning there there. Their hearts are broken and they're saying enough is enough and so were seeing a mobilization not only in New York but in states all across the country now were seeing. It's is it. Don't you find it interesting that while Vermont and Virginia want to follow New York your follow your seeing these other states going the exact opposite direction for life and and and what were seeing now in the church is finally pastors who have been silent for so many years are actually starting to speak about even some larger churches here in Charlotte. It's been very encouraging our phone rings off the hook, and I know other pro-life ministries as well are seeing the same thing and I'm just looking at stats. A new poll indicates 54% of Americans say abortion quote goes against my personal beliefs and and Jason with everything you went through.

Here it is that you and your family are going to be reality TV's Christmas present ever. Look for even higher PR people make it happen. People came to you and you knew okay we are going to be able to get out a message of the gospel in our lifestyle just just who we are, but for the nation to see and and it's good to be promoted and all this in an and even if you are preaching the gospel and we show your your living out your principles and then from there people who you are and you can share more plainly in the know store shut your face did that discourage you or cause you to lose hope or do you have a sense that God can turn this for greater good.

Well we of course had the sense that God could turn it for greater good, but it was difficult to go through. In the meantime, yeah, but what we learned from that is that when God places something in your hand you got to hold it with an open hand. Don't wrap your fingers around it and and and will all of a sudden now you're not willing to let it go. Otherwise, you become enslaved by that thing that God has given to you, whether that's a platform whether that's a reputation whether that's a gift, whether whatever that thing is that God has given to you. It might even be a promise work you need to hold that thing with an open hand like Abraham had to when he was promised Isaac and then God says okay I want to sacrifice Isaac his labors hit him basically says yes sir.

So you hold it with an open hand because if you don't then you begin to focus on the thing that you're holding in your hand and no longer the person who put the thing there to begin with you and that thing becomes your idol and you become enslaved by it so that the key to being courageous and standing on the field of battle is first letting go of that thing that you're holding onto you know when your image or influence in your income is determined by people liking you when you're in a big bad situation because you're holding onto something and this is where we found that there are many pastors that won't speak about certain things that by God's grace. You're a leading voice on. They will speak about it because they're not willing to let go that thing. And often times at the congregation it's reputation, it's a book deal. It's all of these things and you've got to let that go and so David and I learned to let go of the idea of having this reality platform that would give us this great voice and I God showed us how let that thing go yeah and I'm glad you mentioned that going through. It was challenging that it was it was hard and difficult to go through this that's that's life. But what you get going through. This is wonderful extraordinary friends. The new book bold and broken by David Fishman will find out more about what's in the book a moment, but David something major is about to take place in a couple things that you want to dimension to our audience. So go forth yet. Jason and I are participating this Saturday in Richmond, Virginia. In another day of mourning. The first one was in Albany, New York. It was just a few weeks after New York passed their radical legislation for late-term abortion and a and then that the Virginia governor came out and I mean just his comments were horrifyingly fantasizing it really was an Ayn Rand and so while people are quote celebrating these legislative efforts.

Millions upon millions upon millions of Americans, especially believers, are morning and so Elizabeth Johnston, the activist mommy a great mother lives here in the area. She said you know what I believe that we need to have a day where we mourn were we wear black were were fasting and we get on our faces before God. So we did that with her and 4000 people in in in New York.

It was an actually in the they call it the egg, which is up underneath the legislative assembly where they gather in New York and it was me was standing room only date they had overflow crowds, they actually simulcast it in. There were 40,000 folks that were attending well we decided you know what let's do this in Richmond as well because you had Virginia New York really that were leading voices on this and you and so were having this. It's April 6, this Saturday. Another day of mourning were we get on our faces before the Lord and what we want to do is to show God.

Lord, there are people that are grieving over your little image bearers that are literally being dismembered while people gleefully celebrate. There is a remnant of Americans is a remnant of your church that are getting on our faces and mourning. These lives in wheat we believe that it's hopefully a fragrant incense to the Lord yeah and and for this to happen as theirs. Pro-life legislation going forward in different parts of America begin looking at some of these poll results roughly 1/3 of Americans ages 18 to 21 severe views on abortion of change within the last five years. With the great majority of those change going in a pro-life direction something really is up in the greater Charlotte area were we live.

Christians are mobilizing many many babies lives are being saved. So this is this is a time friend involved in one thing everyone can do is go see the unplanned movie that is if you're not there for the day importing. That's it. A group of people to be in Virginia go see unplanned if you seen it. Get tickets invite others a message is getting out to the movie in an unprecedented way.

And end Jason just got 023 minutes to go. If you could give our audience a nugget of something that God showed you in the bold and broken book that you want to convey that that if somebody could take hold of justice under the whole book filled just give us one. Well I would definitely say that you know in the in the cultural context that we have right now where there's chaos and confusion all sorts of stuff going on and you have that that rise inside of you. Just remember that your goal is to win the person and not your point that if if you got that rise coming up inside of you got to recognize that all people in some way shape or form are disconnected from the God who created them. And God wants you through you know being faithful. He wants you to be that bridge that connects the people are disconnected from him, to him it just just as we were taught to pray your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And so if we see that to recognize that God wants to use you as you can be that person that you can be that conduit through which God can touch lives. All you have to do is just continue to be faithful you be you. Be bold because this could take boldness, but on that foundation of brokenness that brokenness becomes the fuel for your boldness and you do become a bridge between heaven and earth and the love that you walk in with a come from it's time spent with the Lord recognizing that I'm no worse in possibility than the worst criminal were center is in actuality an and I and Jesus said he who is forgiven much loves much in trust me.

Jason has been given a lot out of that humility is is seeing God seeing yourself through the grid of who God is and who you are in relation to him that will keep you humble and that will keep you loving toward other people.

My friends get the new book by David and Jason Banham and they both wrote the best parts of it are like play partiality so it's bold and broken and look, you can make a difference where here were not living in the days of slavery were not living in the days of Nazi Germany were not living in the days of the Roman atrocities in in the persecution of Christians running here and right now were living in a country that despite a loss of liberty still has much more liberty than most countries on the planet and much more liberty than most countries in world history. Let's use that liberty.

So wherever you are.

Your look. I can't touch her neighborhood I lived there I can't touch your family. I don't know them but you're the one there in your business in your school in your neighborhood to make a difference in your local church and will you see in the perhaps God is calling you to be the one to meet that need.

He wants to work through you, and in fact that's the only was he a store through no superstars here just regular people hold and vote for tomorrow early Jewish Thursday