Schmoozing with Some Messianic Jews

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. We have a great time today talking with also messianic Jewish friends scholars is going to blast stalk for the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown was the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of Ministry of the wider fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH your job is Dr. Michael Brown locomotive friends to the line of fire. This is a special show today. I know it's Tuesday and was on Thursday. Thursday still thoroughly Jewish Thursday, but I just got off a resume conference call with students at Talbot theological seminary. The Feinberg school fiber Center for Jewish studies and we just did a joint call a tumbler from one for Israel.

Brian Crawford and will be in the moment of Mitch Glaser answering some of the questions from students in of the Jewish apologetics class and because were just literally finish the minute went a minute ago from from my office over your tour studio to their joining and it was just almost some of these gentlemen. So, as they're getting off their resume called are going to be joining me because Windows bullets. This continue the conversation.

So I got a bunch of cutting edge, politically, culturally related things that we need to talk about the broadcast tomorrow. Check my latest articles for some controversies we been addressing it asked her to Brown.org SK your brother order over at the stream, but when I can do that right now, shift gears and Friday is a special day celebrating 50 years for the day. I surrender to the Lord's of the world and put the needle in my arm again transform from that moment on, so we have a special celebration some special Q&A on Friday but right now I want to introduce to you a younger colleague, a Gentile Christian with a call in burden to reach our Jewish people and with the doctor of ministry in apologetics. So let's get on the air with us now. Brian Crawford hey Brian, welcome to the line far thanks for joining us think about dark brown great to be with you while great great to connect with you Brian, we just were face-to-face via zoom. A moment ago.

So how do you as a Gentile Christian.

It burdens in the specific way to reach Jewish people to the point of of really diving into the sources and and really getting educated in rabbinic understanding and philosophy what what brought you in your eyes. Sorry I did not do. Becoming a minister to do it. People that would not that that was not my plan for my life.

I was going to be an engineer for the rest of my life cutting structural engineering college and then I went on a two week long trip to Israel with my church and I got to interact with Israelis on the ground and that the Bible did came alive. My faith was growing I was underlining all the leases in the Bible that I am doing with my eyes and it wasn't good imaginary real and for my people is growing.

But I'm talking to the Israelis who live around the holy site of them their entire lives in and they didn't care about Jesus about you to update, they didn't care that you walk there work there or that the New Testament seems to be archaeologically reliable. Based on that big over there and I didn't know how to deal with that. I'd always been taught that the Jewish people are God's chosen people and yet I didn't understand how is it that the majority of people have not accepted view that the Messiah will II came back from Israel back in 2005 with the burden of first to learn why is it that most people don't expect you Messiah and effectively. How can I be an effective evangelist do them today and God has given me a laserlike focus on getting the gospel to the Jewish people ever been, and you've made the way for me. The joint staff of chosen people ministries and I lived in the middle of an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn for nine years and and got it totally the way for me to be able to share the good news with my Jewish friend awesome so I want probe with a few more questions in a little while, and even how how you intersected with me and and or work but I want to bring on your boss and my long time friend, Mitch Glaser, Dr. Mitch Glaser of Mitch.

I was just mentioning to your students.

Moments ago the Feinberg center that I was speaking at a conference with you years ago was on Isaiah 53 in each speaker was delivering of an academic paper on Isaiah 53 was can be part of a book but you asked us to first assure little of our testimony so I get a catchy way of doing it from LSD.

The PhD, but I noticed that despite everybody else getting up at the same testimony from LSD to PhD because we have got saved of similar background.

So to give mine a little bit more distinctiveness. I titled it from shooting smack to Semitic studies but but Mitch just just give us a quick overview of your testimony be you been involved. It is a leader in Jewish outreach for decades but but had to come to faith like I was. I was a 19-year-old fairly successful businessman. I was a I was an area on registered pharmacist and I was doing sales and the in the San Francisco Bay Area. So I was a joke college. I was raised in the borough of Queens, New York City apartment went to the unusual two garden hose which was about an Orthodox synagogue Fabian Schonfeld for my bar mitzvah. He was the president of the union of association of people congregation the young modern Orthodox quote unquote denomination and dots are supposed to be a good Jewish boy went to Hebrew school. Probably four days a week and I really I like all the history never think but honestly the religion never took and so even though we did everything we celebrated every holiday I went to synagogue at times. I just I never really really believe that all by the time I was 14 I was doing drugs went to college dropped out of college went west with all the other hippies. Second November 1970 of my two best friends share the gospel would be there just become believers and I asked God if he would show me the truth and that night I was reading the Old Testament in English.people could cite only understood about one out of every 15 or 20 words and that night I found a copy of the New Testament in a phone in the redwood forest sections nobly filled with their glowing in the glowing in the moonlight to but a lot of things were going at that point and so I picked up the New Testament actually stole it, began reading it came to quick conclusions.

After I read it all and to a three day night actually number one. Jesus was the Messiah, and he was Jewish and then number two and we were just talking about this. We got more questions about it and that is I literally believe that he was God in the flesh. I thought to myself, if anybody was like God it would be And I and the sort raised all the Jewish religion I knew was Orthodox. I jumped right in their and I guess that was how many years ago. 19 22,021 point I should know more than I do. Anyway, it's over 50 years to celebrate your your 50th yeah yeah so so Mitch years what we came to faith through the 70s called Jesus people late 60s early 70s large number of Jewish people came to faith in a short period of time you've tracked things historically and and found good numbers of Jewish we was in Europe for the Holocaust different things like that.

You see anything different today are a new chosen people ministries around the world. Of course strong in your strong in Israel. Other countries, but we see anything new with Jewish ministry people coming to faith.

I think two things I lexically ultra-Orthodox out for a moment, because I do see some openness among the ultra-Orthodox in Brooklyn, New York, and maybe it is real to collect respect to the general Jewish population. I think that there is a change in the Jewish community when it comes to Jesus and expect to make such comments number one regarding further from the Holocaust and so that horrible memory of our quintessential Christian persecution of Jewish people in our culture puts matters of law as it has been for the last few decades. That's number one.

Five point that has caused some degree of relaxing at the end typically Jewish people have towards Christianity.

Secondly, I think that we have the kind of intermarriage. Not that there was a ton of the American Europe before the Holocaust so and they want actually among non-Orthodox Jews, but we see it really all pervasive right now and I see that Jewish people are just becoming less served about about Jesus know there was a pew foundation survey in 2013 that tracked about 1.7 million out of the 15 1/2 million Jewish people who were raised in non-Jewish homes but identified as Jews, and the majority of them will raised in Christian homes. Now that mean that they will question not necessarily, but what it does me is that there was a lot of intermarriage people were not converting to Judaism in the same way Jews who married Gentiles converted to Judaism five years before that it be.

It was more religious freedom in the home. I know that sounds strange, but I do believe that's true, and so I think at that that is a really big part of it and I think the third thing that I've seen is all of the Soviet Union and with the full Soviet Union.

You have the destruction of an atheistic worldview that was already imposed upon a lot of Jewish people, and I found that the Russian Jews make up over 60% of the Jewish believers in Israel today. That's been proven by a number of really good surveys and so I see that there's been a tremendous movement among Russian Jews as well and as they integrate into Israeli society. I think that's now beginning to have enough critical mass to have impact on on young Israelis so I would say that all of this is going in good directions without some other studies and up at my take a little bit more explanation, but there's probably far more Jewish people, at least those who have some Jewish lineage, one Jewish parent to one Jewish grandparent is probably probably hundreds of thousands of those folks who identify as followers of Jesus and most of them are in evangelical churches spread throughout North America and other places God. It friends you break coming up. I I've got a bunch of questions from I guess here and I know they got some questions meant to talk about some objections answering some common objections. I know it's not surgery is Thursday November special to stay here with my friends laser and grind coffee yeah more interesting set of file light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown chosen people ministries Brian Crawford being the key apologist working in chosen people ministries. They are my special guests today Mitch before we talk about some objections.

Common things that come up in how we approach them. Brian was it like for you living in the midst of an Orthodox treatment, ultra-Orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn. What would you learn about the people you see about their devotion to see about their need help. There's nothing like being in the middle of neighborhood higher community where the rhythm of the traditional Jewish life are not just theory that you read the Wikipedia article, but you actually see and experience and live in and you know you feel the shop the only quote on but on the tablet starting on Friday night and so the whole neighborhood quiet and then you see families walking together for a Sabbath day role or you know you see how the Russian Jewish community interact with the Orthodox Jewish community and how they're different there and different languages and different cultures and backgrounds and getting to know them and talking with them on the street.

There was nothing that I could have learned about those things without living in the myth of that community and in Brooklyn is like it.

It's like the old world come back to the new world where it where all these that the old tradition from Europe and elsewhere. They are still writing alive and and and I would be able to be in the middle of that and that was incredibly important for me to grow in birth and knowledge and and familiarity with the Jewish people and I'm cold and as far as spiritual needs so you deeply devout people, human beings like everyone else but deeply devout people the grubs the weather whatever is going on faith in the synagogue. The men praying gathering early in the mornings young men studying all day that that the mothers devoted to their children and honoring Sabbath, and so on. But as you're able interact or study more in the literature, it is there void. Is there a need is to these people need to show like everybody else remember that they need your joy like everybody else, that the gospel of the powerful victims of the Duper and also to the Gentile people date. They are yearning, but their yearning in different ways, like Princeton, Brooklyn has a lot of Russian Jewish people and they came from the former Soviet Union and they had this void in their lives where they had to eat them deep into them for generations in the Soviet Union only compared to the states and their fiercely hungry and are searching and are dealing with drug problems and are having a hard time getting involved in American fighting. They don't know English and that they don't know how to that that the function wears God and all the suffering in their poverty and there there there first thing or anther that they were never given in their life, and the former Soviet Union felt the Russian Jewish people in New York are searching amount way you got Orthodox Jewish people who tend to have a much bigger worldview. They've got more and third at their disposal that got a community would gotta a rich traditional white child and got rabbis that they can ask questions to and so there that the knees bear the euro told me there are more, perhaps because many of them find contentment in their Orthodox Judaism, but even so, on the fringes of these Orthodox communities. You've got these men and women who are living double lives to who don't actually believe in their Judaism anymore. They're struggling with what Judaism is about certain things and so they're going through the motions of living a part of the community, but they're actually searching for a way out the mandate they want something more than what they've been given in their traditional upbringing and we we would find people like that when we do. Mentalism and Declan in our online campaign and so different. Jewish people have different spiritual yearnings, but all of them can be met in Yeshua the Messiah honest with you course on that entrenched terms what you're saying. So Mitch let's let's take a few minutes and let's unpack some of the common objections that we hear in and see different ways to respond to them so you can throw them out and will will have some discussion around go ahead okay so one of our student recruiting class at the Charles Feinberg center at Brooklyn and Mike was very involved in helping with our curriculum for training missionaries who choose a messianic pastors and missionaries etc. so one of the folks in the class that Jesus can't be the Messiah because God is totally other than man is an object God can only be described what he is not is nothing like somebody says that how can I respond this is my first response to be who says God can only be defined by what he's not. For example, when the seraphim in Isaiah 6.

So use your own Scriptures were proclaiming who he is. They didn't say you are not unclean. You're not filthy you're not dirty you not worldly.

This Chicago sky does Kadosh, holy, holy, holy. So throughout Scripture he's defined as being good is being compassionate and kind, long-suffering, holy just sought I would challenge that 1st to 2nd. He made us in his image.

EEP made nested to be able to to love and hate. He made us insecure that we can make moral choices and it's his goal that that were in relationship with him so that's that's everything he wants to be in relationship with him if he was totally other. We could relate to and we wouldn't call him father, get the Hebrew Bible speaks would be our father, and his religious Jews pray out of the newest part of our praying and he's our father, and he wants to have relationship with us and and that the Scriptures even talk about how we can grieve his spirit because of his love for us and and his desire for us. He expresses his ardent desire that we would be with him forever and he even has Moses tell the people of Israel build the tabernacle of Amisha Connor, a holy place and we die so that he can dwell in our midst. So that's always been his heart that's always been his desire.

Why would we make him so other in a bright, maybe you could add something in terms of how maybe my mind indeed in philosophy Moses Maimonides newsletter 3512 a foreign when the most influential thinkers and in Judaism has some of his philosophical thinking kind of changed some of our views of God apertura melodic A. Claire in finding God in the way that that Mitch brought up that that we cannot describe God using any kind of positive language, we can only describe them by what he is not until we can actually have any idea of who God is, in our mind if we have word in our mind to describe him like like good and powerful and holy and mighty, those words do not actually describe God the God is something other than those words.

And yet Maimonides really is the key player in that you got this idea, not from Scripture because you can even go to passages like Exodus chapter 34 were God described himself positively using word like like merciful, long-suffering, and and whatnot money didn't get his theology directly from Scripture eating God. It really from his Greek philosophical audience that came from his Islamic culture that he was a part of an ad.

One of the greatest intellectual of his day in the Middle Ages. He was surrounded by Muslim who also believe that God was totally undescribable but you could not know him and other moderate frankly was kind of embarrassed that there were many Jewish people who read Scripture and they thought that God actually has arm and a nose and hand and of course those are actually things that the Bible uses the describe God and we within the builder metaphor, but Maimonides wanted to make sure that no one would ever allow God ever have any kind of relationship with physical present court debate so any theophanies in the Old Testament that we can't read those directly added. Actually God coming to earth in any kind of way, and so yeah money is really shifted the conversation here which is why for going to really respond to this objection, we gotta get into the body, theology, and we can't get cite chapter and verse from the Hebrew Scriptures, God's… Interesting thing which I remember at a certain point.

As a follower of Jesus in church and in thinking about certain aspects of the reality of God's presence in personality so you know in the back of my head I wasn't a religious Jew still had this thinking this daughter so Inco incorporeal and so symbolic and personal at the sink of his real power in his presence and that was kind of far and I thought what were they come from. It came from philosophy. Imagery got a minute before the break and Arthrotec to you what your thoughts.

I think that probably this is more of a Kabbalistic kind of question also because and so is the unknowable core of who God is and so there are probably the students been interacting with some Hasidic Jewish people were Kabbalistic and so this unknow ability. Certainly Maimonides touched on it but it's it's pretty big among the Kabbalistic Jewish people mystical Jewish people and so I think that I think it's a beautiful background with the incarnation so I think you know God got what gullible stomata tried in so many ways throughout the Hebrew Scriptures to finally Justin himself and think of this. John 118 no one sees God time, one only God's invisible qualities later known as Sheila says Jesus says father yeah guy comes right down into a world so it will be right here on the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution there again is Dr. Michael Brown. I just feel like life is incredibly special right now. I know all around the world is pain or suffering. We had the horrific tornadoes over the weekend and so much loss of life. Many of you right now or difficult life situations. You're hurting it. Life is anything but happy good positive for you just want to encourage you that in the Lord.

There's always hope in the fact that Jesus rose that's all you need to know if you're right relationship with God. The fact that he rose from the dead is everything, because it means that there is an answer beyond death. It means that there matter how final something is this world. God says there is more there is the possibility of redemption and insight come to the end of this week a special broadcast Preparatory on Friday special Q&A broadcast celebrating 50 years in the Lord is always seeking him in prayer this past weekend I was overflowing with joy actually to the point of of of cheers and laughter with excitement about what is yet to come. And what is ahead of us and one of the great things that I believe is we will continue to see more and more Jewish people coming to faith in Jesus. Until the great climax of Romans 1126. When will be a national turning of the Messiah to Lord I'm with your friends and colleagues, Mitch Glaser, Brian Crawford was chosen people.

It's not through Jewish Thursday because you look at your calendar, but we taken a special Tuesday to talk about Jewish ministry Mitch I want you to race more objections for for Brian and me to respond to. But really quick. In a nutshell, you been at this all long time Jewish ministry is is not often the easiest ministry, especially in light of church history, and other things are you fighting discouragement and depression a lot because it's so rare that we see Jewish people saved or you encourage this what you are saying. Well like what my wife tells me I should be eliminated felt it out because I tend to look on the brighter side of things. I have a future in mind, I have Romans 1125 and 26 and nine yet God says will be a remnant of Jewish people all the way through until that great day of national turning and I keep meeting more more people who are part of the remnant. I haven't been honestly I'm not discouraged I am. But personality wise and I'm a bit of a plotter, such as keep going no matter what's going on but I I have seen chosen people growing out all over the place and for example we just know all the know all the discouragement that, as a result of COBIT and I know that.

A lot of people feel very discouraged by all of this and it's hard knowing what to do what you can't do that. We had just a couple weeks ago we were able to take 40 young Israelis into the desert for a day long prayer and worship retreat of all this, and they put a bunch of their unsafe Israeli friend. Some soldiers you know brush the soldiers and they went out to the desert and I sang and they ate and the and the gospel was was shared and you not get reports like this that I see what's going on here in our own congregations and all work and how could you not be encourage my God is there's no way to lock down the spirit of God and God always worked power and this one at the neat things about being president of 127-year-old mission to the Jewish people in Iraq we print to World War I to World War II to the Holocaust through the depression we've been through of the forming of the state of Vineyard Israel and all the wars that came up we can bring food with so much and yet was still here. And God because God is not finished with the Jewish people. Yet he has a plan and purpose for Israel and that all involved.

Jesus and so I'm encourage you and a niche that I could think it's a lemonade right along with his as well and there is that what we use the cell like virtue virtue, although that quite is immediately impacting on the brain, etc., but medicine · essay decided that but you know what I Romans 1126 such reality to me and the goodness and faithfulness of God. Like you said, if you miss going all the specs and the resurrection of Yeshua and just knowing that knowing then there it's okay. It's good that he rose everything else is gonna fall into place and and one is quick question for Brian. Brian getting to Jewish apologetic apologetics. How did you intersect with my work and how was it helpful to you. I ask this because when I came to faith. I didn't have any of this and it was there were challenges as it usually returns by the rabbis and that's what felt so important that I can provide these for others. So as someone that's called to apologetics in an academic way is a life calling how how those intersect with those how they helped you they have been right click command funny story true story.

I would given several of your volume of answering your subject either as a wedding present by one of my college friend that that's how much he knew that was going to be something that would not only be important for my future. But even for the future of my marriage because he knew them that my wife and I were in this together and we were called to be ministers and missionaries to the Jewish people not eventually moved into apologetic and your work is bar none for the generation that does absolutely amazing. You have to go back 100 years hundred 50 years to get any other comparable apologetic work and of course those are out of date and they don't have good, up-to-date ownership and some of them were a little harsh with Jewish people and so there's there's nothing like your work that we have day and so I am still immensely thankful for your work. You just just as looking back in 50 years ago on South diesel gas to get high distal money from own father broke into a doctor's office with a friend just for fun and then stole drugs and tried mainstreaming adrenaline literally shut it almost killed ourselves you realize any good that's come out of my life is a testimony to the goodness of the Lord.

This is God saying hey I love using the foolish things and the weak things in the neat thing for me and apologetic sows to see how people like you and others are forging own path and getting digging into Ares I haven't dug into a building on things so it's I am just thrilled and and I believe that doing this is going to strengthen and grow over the years so in that light, Mitch back to you for another objection or question from one of the students. Okay, one of the students are asked what I would call it an oldie but really tough one.

How to the Holocaust happened. If God existed.

This is the question I want to ask so how could God allow the Holocaust and how do you handle that when a Jewish person says I can't believe that there's a good God, I can't believe in Jesus because of what his followers did. How do you respond to this, of course, this is not a specific Jesus question, but the general God question was made going to question and that yes, yes, of course, followers perpetrated yeah right right so that that the first part terms of the existence of God. I remember Rabbi the first befriended me as a new believer said to me I can't explain the Holocaust without God, but I can explain the Holocaust was God because it's just so dreadfully evil, almost massively supernaturally evil in it, so targeting this one people does make any sense of God doesn't exist. But if God does exist, how can we let it happen. Of course that's an agonizing question that the Jewish people have have asked in, and many have lost faith because of that, but as far as slides that moment as far as the Christian participation we have to do is say that this is so completely contrary to anything having to do with Jesus and that the true followers of Jesus with the people I Corrie 10 boom and and Dietrich Bonhoeffer trying to fight for Jewish freedom or or rescue Jews and and you have to utterly repudiate that other form that that open the door. Twitter led to it.

You can also point out how anti-Christian Nazism was in this a look at the these evangelical Christians love Israel stand with Israel help you know elderly victims of the Holocaust, except that that's an expression of Christianity. The other is a horrible aberration, but when I was writing volume 1 of answering Jewish objections to Jesus, I laid out all the objections of the cover in the first volume. General and historical and I say the Holocaust one for the last because I thought what you said what you say what can you possibly say how can Juliet and what does me the right to say anything out. I wasn't there. I didn't lose immediate family members.

There, but I felt overwhelmingly was to say look, the mystery of our suffering and and so many Jews suffering instantly children un-answer, but what God did as he came right into our world and suffered with us and that is there's a story of the cell and there was a boy that got hung by the Nazis skin make an example of him and he was so light that that he couldn't die. They hung them, but he just kept twitching in his and in his neck wouldn't break and and when someone said where is God, the answer is there is hanging from a gallows addressable take it further. Where is God there is hanging on the cross.

There is suffering in the midst but suffering absolutely innocently needing have to.

So I don't I don't have an answer for the wire. The how but I have a God who comes in our midst actually suffers right alongside of us, a God that we can relate to. That's our Messiah.

The woman came and suffered with us and for us, and that offers us hope in the midst of it and just as the agonies of the Holocaust.

The, the and the ashes of the Holocaust. The modern state of Israel was born somehow. Our God brings life out of death, and even resurrection out of crucifixion and and that's what I wrote in that or it in the in that the section on there and that's what I try to point to the suffering savior in our midst. That's the kind of Messiah that we need.

That's our project, but obviously with great sensitivity. It's such a hard one matter, no matter what happens, and I think it's powerful and we've got some of the on our website on I found shalom.com. Just a few of Jewish believers who went to the Holocaust were able to say that they could find God faithful they could become believers, Jesus they could tell the difference between German now nominalism, the national Christianity and and that it wasn't really fake. They could tell that they could tell the difference and the you know what I mean.

I was with Mike. You and I will raise the post Holocaust generation and go my grandparents were the only ones left from their family. They all died in Belarus you know and that's I was raised that way.

So is very difficult for me to believe in Jesus's followers and that's why we have no history is just a friend back and have few more minutes my difference constantly supplying Crawford is trying to question about millennial Jesus, we come back. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 8664 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown joyous friend someone a fire great help for those that can stand with us. Those who been help of the broadcasters will soon to a Jewish outreach ministry your year and taxable gift helps us reach more people… Take this message to more more people if you been helped you help us help others go to ask Dr. Brown double-click donate again one time you and give greatly appreciated. We can become a monthly support.

We pour back into you many different ways. It's ask Dr. Brown double-click on donate. Okay, back to Brian Crawford and Mitch Glaser meets the head of chosen people ministries Brian key apologist in the ministry of Brian. Generally speaking, I was a broad category and outside of very very religious Jews. What you seeing that may be different in the thinking of millennial or even Jan see Jews then older juice that that are not believers in Yeshua, there is definitely a different in the different generations and how they approach question the faith and held a how they come to read about know about things of faith and go with millennial than Jim being there getting a lot of their input for digital me. The other digital media. They spend time on their devices on the Internet. Other cord cutters. They don't have cable TV.

They have streaming platform and their asking question out to Google that they would never ask the Rabbi, or perhaps they don't even go to synagogue and they don't even have a red light at question two. But they know they're doing and they're going and are asking questions online and they're trying to figure out their own defense of spirituality and who God is quietly and often time individually without anybody looking over their shoulder and that mean that millennial vent beauty. They often times are more open to spiritual things because they be there searching for answers and bake me so much available online and out like Mitch was talking about before.

There's definitely been a lot of intermarriage in the Jewish community and many of the of millennial's and then beauty. It got perhaps the Jewish mom and Kristin dad demanded a more nominal they don't really know much about their faith in the many of the younger Jewish people there. There, searching for their identity, Google, MIO, who is God wanted that mean that I'm Jewish or have to have a Jewish dad and so there's a lot of confusion and many of them are just going online to try to make spent but who they are prison, someone has to be almost strong and accessible for those reasons, I miss you went through a few more objections early sure I got got a good one. So one of our very bright student asks, I have it right here: so you have a zealous Orthodox man. I've interactively and who asserts that even if Yeshua who recalls the issue. You can comment on that is a Messiah. So what Judaism was had and will have many messiahs throughout history and at different locations.

How can I answer right so when traditional juices. The issue, it may be different than your typical Israeli women's races issue. That's just how they learn the name and has no significance to them and there's some scholars that claim in the first century with the final lien that would've been lost. So issue became the issue and is an actual original pronunciation of the agreement that that's one theory when traditional juice as it could well be that he means it in a derogatory way because it's an acronym for you Mark from overseas Pro made his name in memory parish so that's that. The first, but drivers really says that they don't mean anything by it. That's just how they learn the name of what I would say is you know it's interesting within your own tradition that Maimonides makes it a tenet of faith that every day you have to say you believe in the coming of the Messiah.

So, if the Messiah came and we rejected him. That's big stuff.

If the Messiah came, and he was God's prophet God spokesman God is very much against those who do not listen to his spokesman and if in fact we believe is true that Messiah brings atonement for sins if we reject him. We don't have atonement recently to have a temple standing so just push right back on that on the face of it and said I reject that that idea. This is one of many messiahs and even Jewish tradition is against that one and Asmus did you pray for the coming Messiah every day of save the minimum size what even bother doing that. So then pushback isn't the real question who is the Messiah and if we need to discuss. We always do Jewish believers, we come back to the ultimate question. Who is he, let's focus their grotto go-ahead match the ski going out okay, another one so there Mitch did beat the got is inherently not to be like Brian did we lose I'm here well apparently right. Not sure what happened here here now see if anybody knows was right. You still there Mitch you still there though I'm here.

You that's on Brian here. What's going on guys hear me again like I can hear you now I can I didn't know if there is alien abduction or something. I can hear you there well I'm here to buy by codefendant Dr. Cabrera Ryan Gardner okay I okay to get you ready just yet still he will do a real click okay, someone that your convert your convert. I don't want to be brainwashing convert to your religion so what happened, how can you answer that see God. Let's just let's let's ignore anything outside of the Hebrew Bible.

Let's only look at the Hebrew Bible and the search that is raised religion halt religious and how do you want brainwashed. Maybe the traditionally taught from day one. So let's just to can we agree on the Hebrew Bible's authority to restorative so then the system that says let's ask God and's house that is fair, Brian.

How would you respond soundbite to that orbit the idea of convert convert convert that you're going from Judaism to something that not Judaism but you read the New Testament and that that the New Testament portrays you coming to faith in the Jewish Messiah as the fulfillment and the culmination of God plan for Judaism, though, we need to recontextualize and talk about how you're not actually converting to something that non-Jewish and we come right back to the question is that the real issue and who is the Messiah who is Yeshua combats that I can cover normal soundbite and go-ahead. Mitch okay writing yeah go no matter what I say my Israeli friend that becoming a Christian that she would become a Christian. If you believe in Jesus, just like she would become a Muslim. If she thought it, I would say find another friend, not an object I would that would be better after a difficult one.

So it if you she would become a Christian if she believed in Jesus, just like she will become a Muslim. If she followed Mohammed you have an answer to that one. I'm not sure yet what to look if you're if you're in Israel and Jewish followers. Yeshua you call yourself a Christian because a Christian to them means Greek Orthodox Catholics is like that so judicially was known as messianic Jews, so I would think it was a Christian means originally right Christian is if all of the Messiah were messianic dominant terms of its proper definition. So I just to forget about that. Who is the Messiah and just come back to so ask the question if Yeshua is the Messiah of Israel.

What is it make you if you follow him. And isn't that the big issue. How do you respond Brian nomenclature thing will get hung up on title Christian group. It really comes down to good to all who would do that and whatever you want to call yourself after you acknowledge them at the fire and Lord.

It is not that important. It really matter who is now. I think that this is the season of the year with this question really comes up to the surface. You know the challenge of celebrate Hanukkah or do you celebrate Christmas because it's so visible you can see the conical life to complete a Christmas flight and you know which homes are Jewish in which homes are: quote question will maybe real Christian. You just never know. And so I think that we we can particular Jewish community, we come to label people by the holiday safety and an ethically correct paper issue because there's so much culture and history attached to becoming a Christian and I actually think that the real answer to this question is answered. If the principle of evangelism that we have to separate between Jesus and the religion of Christianity. I don't have. I don't how to speak to the most Muslim side of the but I think it's really important that we are trying to help people have a relationship with God to a person not to a religion, not to a philosophy to change their culture was trying to bring them into a relationship with God and other cities to the last things as time runs out one if you become a Muslim year in the Bible is not the word of God to the tortoises when he got the Koran is and you are not connecting to the promises God gave to Israel. You say no, actually, God gave them to the descendents of Ishmael and comes through Mohammed etc. so you're out you're making a break if you call you sure your note. Train the same Scriptures. Looking to the same promises praying to the same God.

They prayed to the other thing is when someone really encounters the Lord and is really born again as we know, if you call me a Christian. If you call me a messianic Jew if you call me whatever it doesn't matter because I've really come to know the Lord and I want to give him the rest of my life and serve them so there is a lot of baggage we have to overcome that, but gravity was person with a really meet the Lord receive forgiveness new life in the Messiah.

That's what matters.

And without guys, we are out of time. Thanks so much for the great conversation, for lack of face-to-face in the days ahead.

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