Israel Is Rocked by the New Conversion Law

Some major news from Israel.

The definition of who is a Jew or yell a lot to cover stock for the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown. I put on my teaching hat today and really deep on an important subject to my best to give you insight something major that happened in Israel this week. Welcome to our thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcaster and the modified lumber call 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH eight 784 with any Jewish related question that you have 866342 is the number to call this news has been all over the world, not just in the Jewish press, but in secular press as well.

Major story in the New York Times says this New York Times announces that there has been a change in the conversion law is really court says converts to non-Orthodox Judaism can claim citizenship people convert Israel to reform the conservative Judaism have a right to citizenship.

The Supreme Court ruled chipping at the power of Orthodox authorities that see them as non-Jewish. This is very big news and let me explain why Judaism today. It is divided into three main branches Orthodox, conservative and Reform, then you have within orthodoxy what's called modern Orthodox that would be to the left left-wing Orthodox and then you have ultra-Orthodox that would be to the right and then on the reform and you can go even further to the left to Reconstructionist Judaism, but these are the three main branches reform conservative and Orthodox now when you hear conservative don't think conservative, socially and morally like on the conservative versus the liberal that has a different meaning.

It means conserving or preserving certain Jewish traditions. This is what happened over the centuries.

You basically had for many many centuries. What you call traditional Judaism. So these would be Jews who believe what was in the Bible and believe what was in rabbinic literature and submitted to the authority of the rabbis they would be observing the Sabbath keeping the dietary laws.

Living by the traditions than those who broke away would be more secular than anything, just from some religious person to a worldly person to an atheist but that was it. You either a traditional June or you are not broadly speaking, then a couple hundred years ago in Germany, as is the Jewish community was coming out of heaven to be closed and kind of get a like situations. Just living among themselves were getting exposed more to the communities in the world around them at some of the Jewish leaders do we have to be more enlightened. We have to be more understanding. We we we have to recognize the cultures changed and yes the Scripture is holy but her thoughts on God's word way, the thought it was or the rabbinic traditions are not that inspired and we know we have to pick and choose, and recognizing the dietary laws they really don't carry and and and and other things and ascended God chose Israel uniquely that's ethnocentric myth be more broad-minded so this major reform movement came and it's in its origins, it was very extreme. You even had synagogues that would meet on Sunday rather than Saturday, and then they brought musical instruments and with something that the synagogues didn't have over the centuries, and then there would almost be a flaunting of filing the dietary laws and things like that so Reform Judaism began pushing back against what it saw as is an extreme legalistic outdated outmoded kind of small minded.

Judy is not so they look to traditional Judaism and reformer said hey we're in the spirit of the ancient rabbis because they were reformers as well.

Well, a little over hundred years ago there was a push against that but but this was the dilemma you had Jewish intellectuals from traditional backgrounds, but they did not believe that Moses wrote the five books of Moses the way Jewish traditions is going to Jewish tradition, God dictated the five books of Moses through most and they they respected their traditions and honor them and realize that there are many beautiful traditions and that these traditions help keep the Jewish people separated from the nations, and with unique focus on the God of Israel, but because of their intellectual beliefs.

They did not hold the same with they would call fundamentalist views of Scripture and tradition that that they couldn't agree with the traditional Jews that the Orthodox Jews, but they can agree with reform Jews because they thought the reformed Jews were just losing everything so they said we must be enlightened but can serve our traditions, hence the name conservative will over the century conservative Judaism has gone more and more to the left so that really you have on the left, conservative, and then to the left of that Reform Judaism and then on the right Orthodox, which as I said can be all the way ultra-Orthodox or less so. Modern Orthodox, for example, Ben Shapiro would be a modern Orthodox Jew, so he wears a yarmulke.

He is a traditional Jew, but he would not be what you call it hooray did you ultra-Orthodox with a long beard, black coat, and studying in yeshiva 14 hours a day.

That kind of thing so over the years as the modern state of Israel was formed, and by the way, I was bar mitzvahed conservative Jewish synagogue on Long Island in 1968, and it was really really wishy-washy. It really was it. In other words II learned some people radically.

He was who broke for a few years, coupled days after class each weekend and in after school was done we walk over to the to the synagogue and go to Hebrew school there, together with with my Jewish friends and we learned some Hebrew and with her Jewish history and things like that but was bar mitzvahed was bar mitzvahed 1968 at I I read a portion from from the Torah for the prophet there with whatever I was given to read and memorize that you had a be able to chant it so you read through and no one said all right; should read this in English so you know what you're reading. It didn't dawn on me to read in English. I didn't know I was chanting words so for me by my bar mitzvahed departing some of the social event in the spiritual event because the conservative Judaism which I was raised was really very wishy-washy and and that's why conservative reform Judaism, there's a higher degree of assimilation that those raised and that will leave their Jewish faith or background, those raised a very traditional homeless. This can be the same with any religious group so with the founding of the modern state of Israel.

Certain arrangements were made with Orthodox rabbis and they would have certain authority of religious matters over dietary matters, Sabbath and things like that in the donation would operate the way it operates to be freedom for people but there was an arrangement with the Orthodox community said if this can be a wedding for to be Jewish wedding than you have Orthodox Jews, presiding over so what's happened is that Orthodox Judaism as Judaism is the accepted Judaism of the nation, meaning that it is the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox rabbis that will approve your hotel if you get a be having weddings and events and things like that and and and bringing food do you meet rabbinic standards of kashrut of dietary law. This is this is the way that it will be laid out okay.

A marriage has to be performed by an Orthodox rabbi's will, not Orthodox. Well, you go to another country. Many Israelis would go to Cyprus nearby get married there and come back in the marriage is recognizable in the country get married and come back because I don't want to do it under an Orthodox rabbi, so there is a degree of of control that the Orthodox had and while they recognize that reform and conservative Jews are still choose. They do not recognize it is valid Judaism. So the idea that you want to convert to Judaism and become a citizen of Israel right so let's say your Gentile Gentile Christian turn away from that faith you. You become an Orthodox Jew convert Orthodox Judaism Marion Orthodox do they want to come to Israel. They would look at that. So, has a valid conversion you been tested and tried to be put through this you been interviewed. We recognize it is valid reform conservative conversion, they would recognize that this is wishy-washy dislike nothing ever really demonstrated Jewishness or understand what me speed you.

So when I come to recognize those conversions because if you're Judy of the right to return of your mother's Jewish if the right to return become a citizen is Israel.

This can be demonstrated if converted to another religion. So what if you convert to Judaism you have the right to become his releases.

Up until now if it was reform or or conservative conversion. The answer was no but now the Supreme Court after years long battle has said yes so Orthodox Jews, ultra-Orthodox Jews are very upset over this.

Let's look at this article in yeshiva world so this is Orthodox ultra-Orthodox publication online. It's is this Israel's Supreme Court recognizes reform conservative give your the board for conversion in Israel.

Let's scroll down into this article little bit and and see what it has to say Israel Supreme Court ruled on Monday since past Monday that people converted by the reform conservative movements in Israel will be recognized as Jewish and can become Israeli citizens to love return the ruling comes after 15 year legal battle filing petitions to the Supreme Court in 2005, demanding that Israeli citizenship granted to 12 residents who converted to the reform and conservative movements in Israel. Supreme Court ruled in 1988 that not Orthodox conversions performed outside of Israel, a recognize but did not recognize that Orthodox conversions performed in Israel. Israel's chief rabbis and religious politicians slammed the court's decision and promised that the ruling will be overturned. The Likud party. Netanyahu's party also condemned the ruling chief Rabbi Israel Rolf Itzhak Herrera if you suck Yosef said the decision of the Supreme Court is very unfortunate and certain seriously harms the sling loose the well-being of Israel, of the people of Israel with the reform and conservative called your conversion is nothing but a falsification of Judaism means bringing thousands of volume Gentiles into on Israel into the people of Israel. Chief Rabbi Grubb David Lassiter sources. There is Sephardic and Ashkenazi chief rabbis. He said whoever converted to reform and similar movements are not Jews and no decision of the Supreme Court will change this fact.

He said it is unfortunate that through its decision, the Supreme Court of approved flooding Israel with immigrants who have nothing to do with Judaism. Every Israeli citizen needs to ask himself in the said evening houses of Israel, Jewish state, when every foreigner can become a citizen. Obviously many would challenge those who strongly say that's a very bigotry and smallmindedness were fighting and how dare that, we refuse someone who identifies us Jew and converted to Judaism to reform conservative circles is the very bigotry that's destroying our country so obviously this is a hot issue in Israel and there has been a loss of outrage over video that presents non-Orthodox Jews as dogs. There will play that for you and I will hear it on the radio on in Hebrew detail the content of what's going on. The loss while zigzags before the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH paradigm is Dr. Michael Brown and locomotion to thoroughly Jewish Thursday want to hear similar call 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884.

Look at this headline from the times of Israel times of Israel says this parade.

The parties security ultra-Orthodox Jewish prorated party likens reform and conservative contacts to dogs with key Paul Keyport, meaning yarmulkes head coverings a check out this video. It is very sophisticated, lead Don in terms of clever in all this and it's by ultra-Orthodox Jews and obviously terribly degrading to other Jews that lets let's listen and watch bat mitzvah over the local sheet navy sucking stomach in the muscle of the lien you will be a little selfish like of medicine we would be lucky… A lot of Shmuel Ya Boutros should he let the Angels fishing on the financial side yet. So instead of a bar mitzvah.

You have a bark mitzvah in an image after image of dogs with with yarmulkes with side curls with tell the old with with prayer shawls, even one saying he hears the grandmother of the rabbi and it's it's a dog studying holy books and then the end saying it's you need United Torah Judaism which is one of the major authority parties in Israel to to lead the way to preserve true Judaism of again you could just imagine the level of outrage. Looking down Ha'aretz which is famously liberal historic Israeli publication. What is that headline say Netanyahu allies compare reform Jews to dogs and racist election ads. Yeah and and again plays the video there as well Facebook taste on videos. Israel's election campaign turns file in wake of top court's ruling on Jewish conversions.

Likud liens right strongly and works with the ultra-Orthodox parties who have been strong supporters definitively cooed for the government and for the current coalition is about to be yet another election. This is the fourth in just a few years and hard to say what's going to come out of of this next election. But this is the level of acrimony within Israel right now and in the level of how ultra-Orthodox Jews look at these other Jews, as is and look you can call this Judaism not strictly observe the Sabbath yesterday from the traditions of the rabbis Yakima dietary laws you're not celebrating the that the feast of holy days, and in full accordance with rabbinical also how you call yourself practices of Judaism. Your your ethnically Jewish. We are practicing Judaism, so let me let me take you behind the scenes just to help you see how religious Jew looks at this. There is an article posted in the yeshiva world again. This is an Orthodox Jewish website can from people from meaning Orthodox practicing religious Jews can from people use reform and conservative synagogues, halachic analysis, meeting a legal analysis so I'm just gonna scroll through some of this. This was written a couple years back I Rabbi got your Hoffman system.

Once compared the topic under discussion to the selling of Israeli of Israel bonds at UC Berkeley, is fraught with controversy. If one brings up using non-Orthodox synagogues the response from both sides is almost service of the surface reaction and one jampacked with deeply rooted emotion, are they really so intolerant that they cannot even walk into reform Jewish building.

How pathetic. You know Hitler kill all Jews responsibly telling me that even if the foot is completely blocked ultra-Orthodox. They won't even use the social hall horrible, just horrible but Orthodox are completely out of control. The response what's wrong with the reform section of the coattail of the wall so he says the truth is that one cannot really understand another personal having walked a mile in his or her shoes.

The non-Orthodox need to understand the Orthodox services to do so. A metaphor might come in handy knowing argue that John McCain passed away this week, so if you respect truly loved America 11 stood for what it stands for. He loved this country's ideals.

He loved America's principles of morals and standards. Two weeks ago, Gov. Cuomo made the horrific faux pas of saying that America was never great, is largely Democrat, liberal audience actually booth him to those within the grasp of history and morality.

America's greatness was and is indisputable. The fact that her grandparents and great uncles for the evil. It was the Nazi regime and free the continent subject to unspeakable charity reflects our greatness will may be hard for non-Orthodox understand that the Orthodox love Torah true Judaism delivered stood for and what it stands for the love the Torah's ideals, its principles, its morals and standards rejection of these principles to Judaism for an Orthodox Jew is tantamount to rejecting the ideals and principles of America to American patriot choices. There are five major principles under discussion one is the deeply Orthodox belief deeply held belief that there is a creator who created the world to this kind of benevolent creator rewards good and punishes evil three. This creator Hashem is the Torah is the blueprint of the universe for this creator endowed us with mitzvah's commandments, both positive and -ones in order to benefit us five handouts with a badge of honor. The observance of Shabbos Sabbath. When we declare these ideals to the world that Hashem created all and desires us to cleave to and emulate him lease is a rejection of any of these principles is a stab in the heart of the precious legacy that is the birthright of Sinai with the Orthodox hold so dear. Imagine if you will, a club of racist Americans that rejects Jefferson's immortal phrase all men are created equal retreat patriot either rent or allow classes to be held in their building picture for the organization. Organization X that denies others their inalienable rights to the pursuit of life, liberty, and The Pursuit of Happyness on principal and any self-respecting American attended a birthday party in the building of such an organization, they wouldn't. And while the overwhelming majority of reform conservative Jews do feel a connection to Hashemi to Judaism don't really know that the organizations reject many of these five affirmations, affirmation principles to give some examples one reform Rabbi John L. Ross of senior rabbi of Temple Israel of Hollywood California rights on the premier website sees me of Reform Judaism that he does not believe in the God of the Bible. This is a rejection of principles three, four and five, and quite possibly 12 as well with the conservative movement voted to a dry to approve driving on Shabbos to attend synagogues in the 1950s. This is a rejection of principles three, four and five, 2006 the conservative movement committee on Jewish law and standards declared that an entire section of the loss of family purity no longer applies to this continued applies. This continued the rejection of torture Judaism.

The Orthodox objections to the organizational rejection of the ideals, but in no way do the Orthodox reject the reform of conservative Jew conflating and obscuring this distinction as a tactic of some of the less ethical members of the reform and conservative clergy. The purpose of this falsehood is to rally the masses against the Orthodox and to draw away attention from the organizational rejection of thousands of years of torture, belief, so he says this get back to the headline, the Holocaust, the legal ruling itself about using the buildings of reform and conservative synagogues. The maharaja shake so maharaja being an abbreviation for Marina hurrah of the Marina hurrah of so our great rabbi teacher shake and then with his first day of rights that praying or spending time in the synagogue that does not conform to Torah laws. A tour prohibition. The Camara's speak of the Tolbert 78 explains that the appearance of doing a mitzvah is considered like doing a mitzvah on account of the verse of upper Obama draw smell is the greater the number of people, the more glory to the king since praying in a place that does not conform to show, Ruth Jewish law code is considered by the Rambam.

Rabbi Moses mom of Maimonides is a sin, even appearing there, the times, the prayer is forbidden, and he goes on so he's going to give one ruling after another after another, including that the leading legal authority of Orthodox Jews in America of the last generation Rob Mosher Feinstein that he gave his ruling so say hey we recognize that your juiciness, it would've killed was used, but we don't recognize what you are practicing as Judaism.

Therefore, we cannot share your buildings that would be the Orthodox and ultra, especially the ultra-Orthodox viewpoint.

So the question is now, if you recognize a reformer considered you as a Jew than should not give them the right to return there might be what we don't recognize the conversion as being valid. Therefore, we don't see them as true the Jewish and Anna goes I share all this because it's big news and and I want you to understand why the controversy exists and you could see each side one side saying I converted to Judaism.

This is the Judaism I know I now worship the God of Israel, and follow certain traditions different than I used to live, and I want to live in Israel as a Jew. How dear you stop me what kind of state is this the other side is the only way that we can preserve being a Jewish state is by having a real Judaism and if you erode the foundations and the fundamentals it will be nothing left in the nation will be overrun by Gentiles claiming to be Jews who don't even live as Jews so that's the situation, how is it going to affect the elections. I don't know I haven't dug deep enough into the data and what's being discussed to understand that and having seen fully the reaction of the Israeli public. If we get an idea of where they stand who they are standing with on this. I can say that many Israelis resent the control that the Orthodox have I can tell you that they resent the fact that Devon Orthodox rabbi perform the wedding.

They resent the fact that certain restrictions were put on them certain times of day or year so those are issues we shall see how this plays out.

You come right back speaker because 866342. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution there again is Dr. Michael Brown not to the left of me and in the center to drummers and I don't yet there is actually move around thereabouts I can list that left half my feet, my spirit jumping welcome to the line of fire slowly juice Thursday will go to your calls, 86634 tree and will start with Vadim in Guadalajara, Mexico.

Welcome to light a fire hey how are you AK could you do me a favor. Could could you say the name of your city and country the way it's properly said in a proper Spanish accent. While I yeah that's it all right thank you but your questions are only my company all you know. But let's have a listen that's that's the Ukrainian Mexicans better than my American Spanish so go ahead. But… I entered how would your complaint be at the fact that in Ezekiel the vision of the Geico third Temple of a sacrifice being present in the third Temple. What Kenneth don't think I could bike out pertinent namely like Ezekiel 43 818 27. There are certain laws of sacrifice and including for effect five yet yes so it's an important question sir, and one that I think any person seriously studying Scripture and having a Christian outlook on Scripture with would ask. So this down in and in several lines of first in context, it seems the expectation was Ezekiel 40 through 48 would be fulfilled when the Jews returned from Babylonian exile. It even indicates it. Ezekiel himself would be involved in the Temple services for which later Jewish teacher Sublette must point to the resurrection. It but he was poster children the plans the people exile they be ashamed and then when you read other passages from the prophets, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, it seemed as if the Jewish people return from exile, the government national repentance and then the temple would be built and it would be glorious, and the nations would come screaming in. That was the expectation course it didn't happen. So what we talk about is the third Temple. When Ezekiel was receiving this message, you would've thought it was the second Temple. So that's the first thing how exactly will be fulfilled. Will it be fulfilled as 1/3 Temple literally? Second issue is the dimensions are different than Solomon's Temple or the tabernacle of Moses, so how could it be the same Torah law that creates problems for rabbinic Jews were traditional Jews and there is a statement in the Talmud that that one man worked on it night after night after night. Just need to burn the midnight candle for months and months and months and finally figured out how to resolve all the apparent contradictions but we lost as data so all that to say this presents problems for tradition of useful historical fulfillment? Presents problems for traditional Jew. Thirdly, there are Christians who say this was a vision given to Ezekiel as a priest and it was the vision of glorious restoration.

That's how God gave it to him as a priest, but it's ultimate fulfillment will be a spiritual fulfillment. There was, not a literal temple, not literal sacrifices, but rather something of a spiritual import and we should understand the whole thing spirited and that's not my own view, but there are Christians to hold today so that gets me out to options for five Russian subpoints for five. The first issue being historic fulfillment second issue being contradictions with the current tour dimensions third issue being perhaps a future spiritual fulfillment. So to me there are two other options. One option is that just as the sacrifices under the Sinai covenant look forward to the cross and anticipated the once real sacrifice of the Messiah that the sacrifices in the millennial kingdom which is when we believe the third Temple will be built will look back.

So justice will look for the other will look back and remember the Jewish nation will be a priestly nation. Teaching the other nations about the God of Israel. During this time is it in harmony with what Hebrews says about one sacrifice for all and no more after that.

That's because it's a valid question to raise but there are some Christians who say hey will look forward you will be looking back. The other option and this is something I discussed with Prof. Richard Avery back who is a Samarian scholar but along with that in terms of Old Testament scholarship. One of the top evangelical Christians in terms of understanding the Levitical laws and the purposes of these things, and in his view, the, the sacrifices under the Sinai covenant primarily had to do with ritual cleansing and defilement and things like that and that they pointed towards the cross for ultimate atonement. So it's no problem to have sacrifices because they're not competing with what Jesus did over there dealing with other aspects of ritual impurity or uncleanness. Sin but not in terms of once and for all, reconciliation and getting right with God so that's another view that should be explored and and obviously you don't have the equivalent say of the day of atonement in this exact same sacrifices being offered for the same purpose or not. And then there are other rabbinic traditions that sit in the world to come. The only sacrifices offered will be thanked Thanksgiving offerings big because will be living in a new day in error so those are possibilities and what I'm sure about is what God did three issue on the cross. What I'm sure about is the overall harmony of the testimony of Scripture exactly how this will play out. I'm not sure and I do believe though be a literal temple that could well be with literal sacrifices. If so, they will either point back to the cross or be unrelated to what Jesus did on the cross last point of old. Two years ago. Maybe I was really thinking about this a lot praying a fresh over these passages, and asking God to give me insight.

Then one of my colleagues were my closest friends emails Mrs. Mike has God given you any insight on seeker 40 through 40 or so I'm just praying over the fresh one. From there to be a major conference in Kansas City and there some brothers there they would you like us to spend some time praying with you and and and praying prophetically so as the prayer of me.

Two of them had had words out of the blue and knowing nothing of this. The guy was going to be insights into Ezekiel's Temple, so I don't have the shed. I didn't get them yet but it but I shared with you about what I do know and understand God about what what about backup almanac 21.84 the Nazirite bring back the pipe while it started out right right so that that would be in harmony with Prof. Avery back in other words, that sacrifices were fine and had a certain role and function and did not ultimately bring us forgiveness of sin or final reconciliation with God, with the removal of a guilty conscience that only comes through the Messiah's blood.

So it was no problem for Paul to do this because it was an contradictory so that that would that we go hand-in-hand. Hey thank you sir for the question and what will my book comes out sequence of Ezekiel's Temple will will make sure to tell you about it.

Okay you got it. And by the way, for those just listening on radio podcast. I said that with a big smile I'm not actually working on the book right now. God gives me insight.

Hey, I'd love to do it all right. Our friend Manny in Brooklyn how you doing man Dr. Brown yeah hate the question what you think about the Supreme Court ruling in Israel accident is being I love you a while back with his name John Kerry said Israel could even be a Jewish state, or Democratic.

It couldn't be both and make you look up at the anti-somatic analyst of sadly I agree with you.

Either you build state on Jewish law a lot on on at its most of you know or you build it secularly and then managers make whatever rules you want to be like America where you have a constitution as you know, the rights for everyone, even freedom of speech you have other stuff but I don't think you really have your cake and have it same time some interesting points and friends for those don't know her friend Manny's unorthodox to that's look into different things and dialoguing with me and taking issue with some things of a written and taught, but what's interesting is Israel exist as a Jewish state more or less in the way conservative and Reform Jews are juice.

In other words, it's broadly Jewish. It it recognizes the seventh day Sabbath is a calendar around that. But it's not it's not religiously Jewish and every level unique in the nonkosher food in different settings and things like that so it is kind of interesting.

Anyway, so Tsubaki what's on your mind today will I want about Daniel. The ninth chapter, but I'm getting a little nervous that maybe the audience is getting bored of that topic and I really want to move on. So I figured I'd ask you either that there Isaiah 53 what you think is the skill is a 53 gallons let's let's do it and and again I think our listeners enjoy the conversation and find it educational and on your and yet want people to pray for you, so that's good.

Let's salsa let's start Isaiah 53 what will your Indians with with that so I assume certain you spoke about and argued famously regarding missionary appointed like cookies and like the rattle of the servant called Israel throughout you, not like the chapters beforehand and he pointed out some of your conversations like brother Blumenthal. The dated before the like.

Isaiah chapter 5050 and 49 there's a service as an individual. So as were coming closer to this chapter 53 one zooming into an individual so I got you look at chapter 49, and it seems to me like this pervert first versus talking in first person, and you know the it seemed like the servant is writing this passage in selling chapter 60 it's all spoken in the first person and it sounds like it's the prophet here talking about himself and this individual, whoever he is, and 49 and 50 or someone alive at the time that the book of Isaiah was published so I don't see how that helps interpreting the servant of the Messiah wasn't yet born when one of the coagulant. Would you agree that it refutes the idea that the service is always Israel in these chapters in Isaiah II think it would definitely leave an opening to make interpreting it as being talking about the prophet talking now and that it could be perhaps not just of the nation along with certain visuals and the I highly doubt that the context of state and federal evenings.

Every servant ever lived, and you know they can be anyone in the future as it could be on omitting me for example I don't think I agree though that it refutes the idea that emissions of policing is that the servant's and Lee's Israel check your say no solution seems prophet of their. The other side of the break and he gets a similar call. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown 30 Jewish Thursday quantifier so that your friend Manny in Brooklyn so the first thing that I want to do is dismiss this idea that the servant is always Israel have heard since I was new believer. So in chapters 41 to 53 that the servant is always Israel. That's is clearly false or even to say if it's not the nation that it's a group it's the righteous remnant will last false because 49 and 50 indisputably or an individual and yes rabbinic interpretation would largely say it's the prophet speaking there right. Isaiah 42 is another passage that if you look at red dock. For example, or target on they understand that to be the Messiah.

So that would be another individual, and in each case and is apparently between 42 and 49 because this individual is called to be a light to the nations, and a covenant for his own people, Israel. So that's the first thing to the layout and to to demolish that the false statement. Here's the second thing is it possible that the prophet spoke these things of himself and was was even the initial subject of Isaiah 53 this individual who was suffering for the sins of others, and yet it finds its fulfillment in the Messiah because whoever that individual was it didn't bring any type of national healing or anything, and it does say that the end 5213 that he'll be highly exalted in a way that will startle nations that obsidian happen with whoever wrote those words. So, even if it was initially the prophet himself speaking it out so they find their fulfillment in the Messiah. I put your argument will you find contextual proof of talking about an individual which gives the Messiah, but I got I got the point of gram-negative architectural proof really that were talking about servant Messiah.

The only thing we fear servant prophet servant Israel in chapter 42 immune but not totally clear rushing there would interpreting out to be Israel in chapter 49, the prophet is told that you know you Israel on my servant in a way I would interpret that is thing that God is telling every individual Jew and to the prophet himself. You are you and you are an Israelite in your my servant, and later on in the chapter, which were God speaks in second person saying and I'm gonna make you into a light for the nations and and and I'm to make you a covenant for the people. I think that could be interpreted talking about Israel as a whole announcing so II think chapter 4, 642 is pretty far from 53 but the bottom line is I don't and contextual proof of many of the servant think that's referring to the Messiah Jesus is used to contextual proof in the 42nd chapter is teaching need be sought out by the end of the world into the earth, and he will be a light to the nations that he will set the captives free, and then either captive Israel, and set the captives free.

49 is a clear parallel to that some of the identical language is used right, which would indicate that whoever's being spoken of in 42 with some rabbinic interpreters says the cyclist was going to do what he does addresses a massive global mission. 49 speaks of the same one, but he seems to have failed in his mission because his own people Israel are rejecting him and you goddesses know not only will you succeed in regathering, the excess but you will also be a light to the nations than the 50th chapter speaks of the same individual beaten. So why can't be the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet in a prophetic way. Why can it be the Holy Spirit speaking to the prophet in terms of want to come so I've clear palace between 40 to 49, 50 and 5213 starts by saying that he will be highly exalted in extreme terms that even the midrash says higher than Abraham, Moses, and the ministering angel that kings will shut their mouths over him anytime at messianic proportions. And that's why the midrash and and Moshe all shake 500 years ago said we all interpret this with with reference to the Messiah, 52, 13 to 15.

Those three verses and then it now continues to talk. Same thing like 4950 rejected same things. 50 being violently we must understood he would when he was doing. Yet, it brings with him.

He dies and continues living. So all I had was those four chapters 42, 49, 50, and then in the 5213 to 5312. I'd say you tell me who that's document you tell me who did this was rejected by his people suffered a violent death rose from the dead has become a light to the nations, and will one day be even more fully exalted Philip to the shock of the whole world and to the astonishment of the Jewish community. That's not a textual evidence, the Messiah spelled out on the what is well again I would like demonstrated 49 50 spoke on the first results are probably somewhat already existed you missed might you even answer my question using is impossible for the Holy Spirit to speak through an individual on behalf of the leader individual is possible, but beat the text seems to be talking about some of the author himself didn't happen with them in an apartment that didn't happen within a time limit time on unlike what the dental model you try to have the time of the air thick but so-so side so just to be clear and will continue okay will will continue doubling and in a few weeks would just starting on Isaiah 53 but obviously the fate of the cults will continue, but your set. You have no problem with this being spoke with reference to the prophet so 2700 years ago, but it still will happen. And I'm saying why can it be the Holy Spirit speaking to the prophet on behalf of the Messiah is is which is more logical and isn't this a messianic mission. Doesn't this comport with the mission of the Messiah.

So if I see this. Isaiah 42, which again some rabbinic interpretation says is the Messiah that I see the same thing for Nyla tells me it's a Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet, the voice of the Messiah. Messiah is pre-existing to his right civil doubling will continue. Manny I thank you sir.

As always for the call 86634 to a let's go to Mary in Des Moines, Iowa. Welcome to light a fire that your radio turned down there. Mary will I tell you it shall you try to help you we get a second here. Let's go to CJ in Boise, Idaho. Welcome to the line of fire call court.

So I wanted to ask question about the divine negative. So I'm all I'm only Hebrew learner anyone declares that all I want sound like I'm you note more your expertise.

I recognize actually I really like that but I've been looking through arguments for general versus Yahweh and I it seems to me that everything of the evidence seems to indicate yet about the life you like it like 11, Rabbi like the one comedic dollar. The numerous texts that friends are like maker that have it yet, but none but seem to have Yahweh and then some of the grammar rules and starting to learn. Like for example a a a hey at the end of a word almost always indicates an about. I can't think of any situation where indicated a valid Galway is just a jump jumping thank you for saying that you're just letting Huber because there and there's an endless line of words that ends with with that the hey strong set of signals so moiré.

For example, teacher right. It's just it's a very very common ending. It's it's extremely common. So let's let's throw that out okay.

The second thing is that all ancient inscriptions that have names with the divine name and if will follow something closer to the Yahweh pattern was the Masoretic manuscripts of the valves put in the many, many centuries later, there are some manuscripts that have no valves written because the name is considered too sacred to pronounce others at the valves of Adonai written and then the valves of Adonai combined with the consonants of of Yahweh come up with your whole wall or Jehovah Jehovah, but that was Christian scholars in the Enlightenment. That started reading the Hebrew didn't understand what was happening there and got it wrong you will not find traditional rabbis or traditional rabbinic literature over the centuries, identifying the divine name is Jehovah that that simply won't be found. So what are you mainly wings to fly the semi Gordon or folks like that on every Gordon is deftly one of my primary sources you yes in which what you need to do is the thorough reputations in the semi Gordon that the problem is that some of the numbness emigrants and academic.

I himself, but some are written in in such academic language, that they may be harder to follow. But even if you just do something like this. Go go to Jewish encyclopedia okay Jewish encyclopedia's online encyclopedia and and typing.

I think I have Jehovah.

If not, type in touch with grandma tongue and will even show you with Masoretic vocalization when when words occur in in different when you have a grammatical form with a preposition before a one word following another that he changes vocalizations and indicates that no none of this your whole wall thing was was never ever seen or known.

The again the ancient evidence of inscriptions where we have more full forms written out in in what would be called a syllabary, so it's not just a consonant but a constant and a vowel.

They will all support the Yahweh reading it in the shorter Yahoo form and not Jehovah against nothing that we divide over but not Jewish encyclopedia just in a ditch granted in, or Jehovah, which you find there. One of the other will even see some grammatical arguments there if you can follow them will refute this idea be keep learning, keep studying and this is lots more stuff than the giving of the call we can continue the conversation. He friends may the Lord's blessing and grace of yours. Let's remember to pray for the lost sheep of the house is gone. Open the hearts and minds as he hears people Jesus issuing the Messiah