Why Apologetics Matters

No apologetics matters solid answers for deep questions. It's important stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown was the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire valves like always. 866-34-TRUTH index 866-34-TRUTH your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown Prince.

I can't stress this strongly enough. It is absolutely critically important that we are strong in the defense of the faith.

It is absolutely critically important that we have an environment in our churches or ministries or families where people are able to ask the hard, difficult, challenging questions were not thrown by them. We don't stumble over them. If we don't have the answers we say we can find solid answers for you solid apologetics super critically important as much now as any time in church history a friends Michael Brown.

Welcome to the modifiers of the call 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 8788 for all subjects. All questions warmly welcomed. Also, an hour and 10 minutes from now will be coming back on YouTube Esther Gibran YouTube channel and will be doing our exclusive weekly Q&A chat there so you can be ready for that to join us if you wanted text in your questions later. You can do that and a reminder if you watch any Esther to run Facebook channel at the bottom of the the screen there where it shows the broadcast right beneath that is a donate button so if you appreciate the broadcast want to help us reach more people. Just click on that any gift of any size is greatly appreciated. They do accumulate so thank you makes makes a great difference in over and YouTube. If you watch you live on YouTube right beneath the chat box. There is a $you can click on that and give we can go to our website. Esther Gibran ask if you're Brown dot org to give their so what's got me thinking afresh about apologetics a few things of finishing the book now final stages of editing working on sharpening the text book scheduled to come out next May on the theme of has God failed you. Did you feel as if God failed. Are you a believer struggling with your faith or your former believer not believe in God anymore, but you're willing to talk about the issues of obviously as many are falling away, even Christian leaders renouncing their faith so important that we address the deep questions. Some of them have to do with the problem of evil.

The problem of suffering some of them have to do with standards of the Bible and how they line up with today so not have to stat rid of some of them relate to other religions and things like that.

Many of the contemporary challenges many many questions, be they scientific, philosophical, theological, practical, moral, and it's essential that we address them.

More than ever now why we say more than ever apologetics Greek Apollo idea the defense of the faith that has been important since the early church. It's it's in the Bible. The most famous text in first Peter 315 were repeated says we should be ready to answer and have a defense of the faith. Paul Philippians 1 speaks of being in prison for the defense of the gospel, and we know that the early church developed literature in defense of the faith answering the charges of the pagans interacting with Jewish folks who didn't believe etc. so this is been here always, and then the church in the midst of Islamic societies had to deal with this or that the church in the missive of atheism is had to deal with this questions arose can come up but I say that the issues are more important than ever because anybody can access the objections, anybody can be influenced by them. I've often mentioned that I was in a meeting with Josh McDowell and he said that objections that they used to deal with with college-age kids.

So kids who have developed thinking skills in a certain level who have matured to a certain level that they're dealing with the identical objections, I was 12 and 13-year-olds. So the younger kids don't really have the ability to process some of these things, they are responding more in a peer pressure way or the just repeating what others are saying way or emotionally based way and and it's even tougher to get a solid philosophical robust theological response into their hands and because of that they have even more questions or grow up differing with their parents on fundamental gospel moral issues user within needs an encounter with Jesus. Yes yes yes yes yes the five yeses absolutely fresh encounter with the Lord is key ultimately without that you will be spiritually bankrupt. Ultimately without that you'll be handicapped spiritually.

So yes, a real living encounter with the real living God is number one priority.

But we also brains we have minds recall to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength. And if you are at struggling with deep doubt if you're really not sure about what you believe.

If you really can't answer the questions coming your way to I could my life to this or not, and how much of a witness regularly how confident you been your prayer life is there even a God.

This is the Bible full of ancient myths did Jesus really rise from the dead. Discover the answer prayer. What makes me so strong. I'm right about what I believe prints of your struggle there and there is no condemnation for struggling juices, be merciful to those who doubt there's a doubt that is a a moral failure where someone fails to trust God when they ought to as a doubt.

That's legitimate understandable and Jesus is merciful to that the man whose son has seizures in Mark nine Lord, I believe, help my unbelief. That's were many of us are at Lord, I believe would help my unbelief. Jesus goes ahead and heals the man's son again, Jude said, be merciful to those who doubt but if that's where you're at how how can you be strong in faith. How can you function powerfully and when everything comes out to faith that if you're not sure I'm picture this, you're ready to get married and and is the wedding is getting closer and closer.

You begin to have grave doubts you don't think you really love this person you're not confident of their love for you and and you're about to make a commitment to spend the rest of your lives together and not marry anyone else and you're really struggling with his arena match. Is this right thing to do is go want me to do this. We love each other your struggle with that how it in the world. You go ahead with marriage and and and planning and and then that the celebration of the wedding instead is gonna be a terror for you souls set of that day.

Can't wait to lick your spouse to be in the eye and say I do I will your mind forever instead of cycling, government doing one of my doing the same with our relationship with God. I will say this to condemn no no no no licenses to encourage us is to help assist us to say there is help available so this on my mind a lot writing this book dealing with reasons that people lose their faith.

It's on my mind all the time because because they have people coming to our ministry with questions. After we are asked Dr. Brown deep questions struggles interacting now with one brother been in the Lord for years, but struggling with what he believes. Having this is all the time and I got this really neat testimonial want to share it with you won't mention the gentleman's name, but I will share this with his.

I was born to a Jewish family have always been proud of my heritage as a youth, I begrudgingly shuffled through the prescribed protocol for young member of my faith which encompassed years if he was coming with the bar mitzvah celebration. He did this though, but he wasn't from a religious family and his Jewish heritage was more a cultural thing than a deep spiritual thing is that II never related to the biblical side of Judaism.

I considered myself an agnostic and noted keep an open mind. The truth be told, I lean more toward atheism right so many years later. Fast forward to 2017 wife and I were great friends with her next-door neighbors and often got together on weekend evenings to discuss a myriad of topics. No subject was considered off-limits. The question was asked about my belief in God.

I profess my faith in science was and asked if I was bothered by the fact that I would be going to hell response is Huckabee going to hell if I don't believe there is a hell, I saw that question with a challenge. I told him I would prove The Big Bang Theory is a much more viable explanation for existence than the Bible so that is great that these couples getting together and having this honest interaction and being totally candid with each other. The different worldviews, yet his friends and hear someone saying hey, I approve the scientific view is right. There is no need for a God, there is no need for a creator, science explains little when my two best friends came to faith in 1971 and little by little, began to change. Now this threatened our rock band because we were going to be rock stars and getting high together and now you're 16 years old. It bass player in either guitar play 17 years old and is no there there starting to change.

I didn't like that so I was gonna go to their little church August 1971 and show them how stupid the whole thing was never me, this wasn't scientific and scientific background. I was there arguing and show what they believe is wrong and false and kind of expose it and I went in people very loving and gracious towards me and thought well, whatever you have your way. I've mind you give your religion.

I have much to think about my religion is a picture be harrowed right beside Jewish, or whatever fine and they began to pray for Milos Rickett presented convict me deal with me, but the engineer was radically say but my my first impulse was to show this is wrong on the pull you out of the stupor church and God convicted me of my sin and put me in a place of recognizing my need for God than wonderfully beautiful Sebi then after that I began to meet with a local rabbi and immediately I get hit with questions and issues and you better believe I got thrown in it in the deep water was shortselling.

The rabbis were sharks. I mean, with serious objections and and real challenges to my face from brilliant very sincere man. Yeah, that was right out of the gate and and that's another reason why apologetics are so important to me because I went through a loss struggle through a lot of questions agonized over over a lot of objections before coming up with rocksolid answers that I know that I know are true and honest and according to Scripture and enter not just some projection.

I'm sure of it. But I went through so much and some struggles so much upheaval so much spiritual and emotional challenge. I said I want someone else to have to go through that. I do not want anyone else to have to go through what I went through. If I can provide solid answers so that they can they can benefit from what I went through because I benefit benefited in other areas from others went through all the years of research and study in wrestling and in seeking and and innately come to their breakthrough.

They come to the conclusion I benefited from their labors, and their sacrifice will let others benefit from my labors and sacrifice and I've met many Jewish believers around the world to tell me I'm in the faith, because your writings because your material becomes used it or I'm still in the face because they were they were getting hit and they were struggling in the rate of fall away and we were able to present the truth to them and that truth is, Jesus said sets us free. Right once I would happen to this family went about proving The Big Bang Theory is true. Dr. Frank Erica Francis among big bag to keep the Big Bang or the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH paradigm is Dr. Michael Brown is one of our talk about importance of politics switch to a very relevant subject to the bottom of the hour. Bring on the special guest. But if you have a question for me, a defense of the faith questions of the struggle within Scripture give me a call. Try to get some calls. This will 866-34-TRUTH but let me give you physical example that will tie in with spiritual struggles of a few weeks back I started feel rundown body ache, fatigue, and I had been out with a friend worked out with a friend who came down with a virus so it was like two weeks after we had worked out and he come down to virus right after we work out that I started feeling funny so thought it's unlikely it is. Any connections 14 days out, but to be conscientious in a win and got checked and didn't have the virus than that of the infected of the antibody so probably never never had it. In any case of felt miserable rundown fatigue is not my normal energy and just you hurting and after out of the week and 1/2 or so. It finally went away but then I was doing a lot of early-morning interviews. Last week I go to sleep late at night my sleep cycle got thrown so by the end of last week I was feeling sick again and had a go minister of flu to taxable Florida to minister and spoke a couple times Saturday morning and Saturday evening flew back Sunday and that point of a consultants not right. I was was getting a real pain, jaw pain and whatever and talk to a physician colleague of mine, he said sounds like what you're describing could be the root canal infection or ear infection and spoke to the dentist. Recheck some x-rays.

I just had done happen quick. Coincidentally, a few days earlier. It was a root canal infection so I been a been on antibiotics since but in doing radio and do everything I do, but physically right now I feel physically lousy.

I had a workout. I was scheduled to do. Yesterday I canceled that try to be wise and not push my body too much of my energy level has not been a strong so I'm been able to write is much at night, and things like that and some do not seek to do what I do with excellence. Rest is much as I can rest in all of that these antibiotics do their work, but I am not myself as being physically underage is not at the start of note, ask all the world to pray for Ms. infection whatever to be dealt with. It will be dealt with right but the point I'm making is to cut back on things I do cancel a couple of interviews the other day so I could make sure I slept in and then had time to see Dr. if I needed to etc. just can't do as much. Now this is this this is a very very minor condition right where I'm going through tooth pain body ache. Fatigue is a very very minor condition. Some of you are suffering from terrible physical afflictions, I mean that the pain is acute and you can't get away from it. Just debilitating or no energy, you barely get out of bed in the morning so sickness and of itself is is a curse sickness in and of itself is not from above. It's a gift from God. Yes, we can grow through it.

Yes, God can work through it but sickness and of itself reflects the nature of Satan. Other nature of God nature of God is reflected in his meticulous creating of the human body and and and the universe. The way he made things to work so perfectly and sickness attacks that debilitate's that causes deterioration and disease as well as it reflects the nature of Satan on the nature of God, you know, we can grow through sickness and you may be the guy obvious person it in your whole community and the sickest at the same time that can happen health is is not a proof of of piety and sickness is certainly a proof of unbelief, but if if I'm slow down a little bit by this. Some of you physically really debilitated and and and that's why we emphasize healing and pray for healing and believe that he will support and that's why we celebrate medical advances and stand with medical sciences, medical science trying to deal with these things as well.

I that's how it is physically what about emotionally. What about what about mentally if if I am weak if I am struggling. If I am not whole in these other areas, how strong can I be in running my spiritual race. In that sense now in deep questions completely debilitating spiritual right.

So back to this testimony. This gentleman Jewish atheist leaning gentleman is going to prove The Big Bang Theory is true and biblical creation is not necessary. Thus began my journey Neil Degrasse Tyson was my first stop. He was quite convincing. I also delved into the sciences, such as astrophysics, quantum physics and cosmology in an effort to strengthen my argument.

The subjects were fascinating, but FMI most important question is not being answered. How can nothing, plus nothing, create something exactly exactly. I journeyed on, thanks to YouTube. I watch many hours of debates between an atheist Richard Dawkins restrictions on those in their equally brooding counterparts. Surprisingly, the opponent's arguments began to make sense to me.

Dr. Michael Brown Dr. Yu Ross Rob Zacharias Frank Turek captured my attention. I needed to learn more about theirs and others' points of view, lectures, sermons, biblical discussions and everything else I get my hands on Phil my nonworking hours. It was suggested I read a book by Lee Strobel the case for Christ. I was told I would find many parallels between his coming to faith in the path I was currently undertaking.

I found that nothing short of amazing and quickly digested in other respects, the case for faith Frank Turek's book on having the faith to be an atheist, was also recommended and hit home with me.

Many of the books by several authors followed one book in particular.

Evidence that demands a verdict by Josh and Shawn Miguel's of the new addition truly grab my attention just prior to concluding that book I call the friend, a former rocket scientist and fellow nonbeliever. I'd not previously discussed this topic with him.

We met for breakfast. He shared his arguments as to why science was the answer I felt myself offering found myself offering counter arguments to each assertion he made.

He responded not with logic but with anger and frustration from sin. We don't have the answers yet, but they'll be discovered in time as all things are in the end I second-guess myself even further that The Big Bang Theory was the answer on the night I finished Josh in trauma tells book. I said to my wife.

I believe I was wrong. Science is not the answer. God is the answer still know who God is, but I now believe there is a God on the agog to the created universe and DNA could not have occurred by chance.

Not five minutes after making a confession.

My wife and I received a text from our neighbors informed us there go to church that night and asked if we would like to join them. They'd never asked us that question previously, I was in shock as was my wife. I believe at that moment I received my first overt communication from the Lord. This could not of been a coincidence, we accepted their invitation to join them. More research commenced. I could ignore all the references to Jesus that remade the Old Testament then return might turn my attention to the New Testament particular book of Romans. I found my heart being swayed by the love Jesus has for his poor health, especially for us sinners. On August 1, 2018. I was saved on that day I declared for the first time I life that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. My life has never been the same sense. That's a liver two years later Kaman is that is that glorious or what is that a perfect example of the importance of apologetics look apologetics is often described as pre-evangelism that it prepares the person for the rest of the gospel message CS Lewis through intellectual argumentation through apologetics went from atheist to theist believed in the existence of a God who is personally involved in our world and then by faith, became a Christian encounter God's truth in a life changing way so in the same way this gentleman through intellectual argumentation goes from atheist to theist and then encounters the Lord and Savior is born again, but apologetics is not just pre-evangelism apologetics is post evangelism post salvation.

Once someone comes to know the Lord. In fact, most of the people I interact with our believers with questions and then secondarily nonbelievers with questions we interact with tons of nonbelievers with questions, but most that we hear from with questions are believers as a travel around the world. Yes, by God's grace of people read articles that are posted online and in the thousands of them up there and watch and listen to the radio broadcast the podcast YouTube broadcast serenity people constantly thanking us for these materials. Of course, read our books, but probably out of those who watch on YouTube. The number one thing I hear from people is Dr. Brown I love your debates.

Love your debates and it was up to me. We had the right opponents of the right setting, but I'd undo a debate every week and some obviously are major you need real time to prepare, but in areas where I live, prepared an dorm virtually every day. The I'd enjoy having a radio show or TV show or that's all I did was debate people. That's why's spot. I so constantly encourage critics to call a love I love the questions you ask.

And in the probing questions in the biblical questions and they thought theological questions in the practical spiritual questions. I love answering them again about 45 minutes from now will be back with you on YouTube so over on YouTube SK dear Brown on YouTube if you not watching their now good in 45 minutes will be doing our exclusive weekly Q&A chat there and get answers many of your questions as possible before 15 Eastern standard Time. However, all that being said over whelming really overwhelmingly I I will I hear from people who agree with me and overall faith, and one reason that I encourage critics and skeptics and mockers to call. It is for their sake and to flush out the cowardice and that the attacks on longer people at Wilhelmina really come up with your questions below. Mrs. I love to be challenged up to debate look for people to to differ with me in and offer a robust challenge because that's only going to deepen my understanding and my faith. All right, we come back. I want to speak with a black Christian leader who is making a difference in these very tumultuous times and friends to pray for us on the front lines were burning a lot of fruit depression for all. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown join his friends on fire. I am delighted broadcast Jonathan Tremaine Thomas, better known as JT Thomas came to national attention 2014 in the midst of the Ferguson protests after the death of my namesake Michael Brown. He was involved in peaceful evangelistic reconciliation outreaches been involved in national events this right now in Ferguson Missouri. In fact, so perfect place to be living in base doing this is founded an organization called civil righteousness. And if this critical time in our nation's history when a colleague asked me about having JT out of those perfect what could be a better discussion than to have right now. So JT, welcome to the broadcast. Thanks for joining us. Thank you so much Radley Dr. Brown might my joy give us the brief story of your spiritual background and history and then how it is that you've emerged with this particular calling absolutely well.

I grew up in the Western North Carolina family of preachers and also active in that we grew up in the missionary.

I was raised in the missionary Baptist tradition, but my great-grandparents were actually Christian Methodist applicable circuit riders preaching the gospel on former slave plantation sharecropper field and of the Lord used them mightily but they gave birth to a whole gaggle.

In many of them became very active social commentators, professors, and one was a very famous civil rights activist and anger.

Nine. Nina Simone and she became, the voice of the black power movement in the 60s and and so in many ways I saw and experienced even a lot of the rage become one that not healed so that's kind of what carried out.

A burden real revival in the black community in America also use your great since a very young age that one person acting the Lord have been uniquely positioned to engage.

So how did you engage what you do well.

We initially in 2014. Went to Ferguson. I went there to prayer walk on the prayer walk actually turned into a 21 day that a prayer assignment that galvanized over 70 local churches and during that day that, 21, 21 days of fasting there on the ground in Ferguson, the Lord gave us a strategy to pitch a tent note the attention of the globe went on for time and news organization, FBI, Homeland security, everyone had a station there and I kind of walked around and I noticed that the worst the camp of the Lord and so God had a erector tent and we get 8 to 10 hours of worship in the net every day and are sent out evangelism change three times a day and eventually stationed interceptors between the police and the activity and I had them cut my teeth actually in the realm of, being revival in 1995 the Brownsville on a trip on a visit there, and it deeply marked me.

But I saw in Ferguson in the midst of the chaos I discerned and saw the power of God displayed like never before and I knew that perhaps revival or awakening come in the form of written then to America.

On the back of his Christ, so we ended up staying to make disciples out of the many who experience the power of God and King salvation.

During that credible. I think JT is exactly what I would expect God to do at a time like this. On the other hand it gets so little national attention.

All the bad news gets attention, but we use a little about what God is doing a been trying to shout it out in recent days taken the gospel to the streets and having served as a leader in the Brown's revival 96 to 2000. I've been talking to lots of people about outpouring on the streets and and what I believe God wants to do so with his tremendously encouraging to hear this in your long-term commitment to to make disciples before we talk about what God is doing today and some of the current initiatives I want to put some things out for you to speak and in the most candid terms at a time like this. Is this a broad question and it's a generalized question, but at times of great tension and and challenge that were facing right now. What do you see that a lot of your white brothers and sisters are missing don't understand in terms of race issues in America and conversely, what would you say that many of your black brothers and sisters, dominance, and recognize that we all have blind spots one way or another in your, right in the middle of things. So again, this is your perspective but but what would you say I think I think that we don't understand that God can speak through member. He desires to speak. However, they speak what I mean is that we become so entrenched in our political biases and allegiances that we can scarcely wait.

We lack the progression of the of the ability to be objective and to weigh everyone and everything, including ourselves on biblical scale and so what happens is, God can speak through even you know the most secular of organization can do. We have the ability to say, God, what are you saying and what are you doing, even if we don't like the package that is coming in.

And even if we can recognize certain things that are not from the Lord that have married himself to those movements or the situation can conversely you know so so what I feared from white people, and acting from, you know, for the last six years is a tendency to immediately dismiss that which makes makes you uncomfortable or makes one feel like it. It not aligned with biblical truth without possessing the ability to allow God to reveal what what he's doing what he's got his finger on his way to just jump in on that first so in, in other words, someone might say that your white Christian watching Ferguson this look all these riots in the hands of shoe thing. That's a mess and so because of the riots and because of the inaccuracy of the reports they throw out the whole question of racial injustice or we look at the BLM movement and see its Marxist roots and its radical feminist roots and all these other things and we don't as so we put that aside, we dismiss the whole thing without understanding why so many black Americans are hurting and upset is that they see what you're saying absolutely absolutely and emigrant.

Conversely, we have African-American we can be so so hurt by that respondent Vivian we respond back out of our hurt and been become guilty of the same generalization, but were hoping to see shoot from our culture, meaning that we began to use the exact same language in the exact same forms of categorization that we fought to get out of. From day one. You know, don't don't link me as a young black man with every young black man. You know, just because the guy over here to my left, might actually live a criminal lifestyle, that doesn't mean I live a criminal lifestyle and so we we fought to get out of the harmful and dangerous stereotype that actually contribute to these police encounters and you know the various forms of the vision in our culture, but then we become guilty of family, you know what because most of the white we start you doing using Carolyn generalization about white people and white evangelical culture will all of them are good. You know those white people and fill in the church we have two we cannot use MVM language. Those Democrats goes liberal goes white. Those black because that that's in the first adamant fallen and carnal language in if not the language of the kingdom so so JT obviously you are spiritually minded man that you're practically minded man and I I can recognize problems draw attention to them come up with spiritual solutions on the ground working this out inequalities and educational opportunities.

Various things that still linger from the racist past of America, practical solutions that don't go the way of the BLM movement in a war. These ridiculous statements like yesterday losing as a form of reparations. 11 so again it's easy to react against extremes. I if someone says to me okay what we do.

So my first thing is, are you humble yourself and you sit on our conversations with people from different backgrounds and said tell me your story so I can understand okay I get that for we can talk about certain things, but I don't know government solutions to these issues that were facing in. And what's right and wrong responsible.

These are intricate things. Generations also on the ground where you live. Practically speaking, what are steps that believers can take to come up with what we agree is biblical righteousness, biblical justice, God's heart for everybody.

Where practical things steps we can take things we can do. React we have to understand as believers that we have been in for no one else no other.

No other authority earlier has been entrusted with the ministry of reconciliation and you know some people even push back against the word reconciliation is not a human work biblical word and that we have to maintain that focus and and leave the expert in public policy expert in criminal reform in all these different you know it please reform we can. We must be at the table be a part of the compensation, but that is not our primary place of anointing and authority of believers. So what what we do we create the table. We create tables you know and once a year we quote Dr. King payment. I have a dream speech where he speaks of the table of brotherhood were the sons of slaves and former slave owners can fit together at that will what is that table that is the communion table that's good. The blood of Jesus. Check for everyone about the great equalizer and so the church need to create a table where there is not one and beer the table where were tables been built as a really it's a place to listen a place to learn a place to enter and to lament you know really weeping with those who were weeping. Then you move from, listen, learn, and lament into innovation innovation and implement the world immediately goes to innovation okay what law, what what legislation do we need to do. We need to put them positions of power. What we need to tear down what we need to change externally, but no the lament the listen, learn, and lament the process of humility were God breaks our heart gives us in our brokenness in our contrite spirit he gives us grace, and from that place. Grace our feet. If you can stay through the Blake stingrays UGT need to get out website information like that. I want to flesh this out a little bit more with my guest, JT Thomas, civil righteousness, Inc. it's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown and voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 866343 here again is Dr. Michael Brown speaking with JT Thomas on GTO. I was so into our conversation, I fail to ask for your website or folks want to connect fully.

What's the best way to do that absolutely you can follow her on Facebook or Instagram civil righteousness our website or civil righteousness.org okay great civil righteousness that did the read the first one that came up with that domain name or did you have to get a flat, no RRR what kind of emerged out of a sermon where I mentioned I could delete we don't need another civil rights when you do civil righteousness movement, which deals with our transformation of the external through the first print that the Reformation or the Reformation of that which is external transformation of our heart. Internal transformation that leaked the external reclamation which I believe it is where the Jesus justice agenda began from the inside out. You got it submitted such a great concept and and I, thought I dropped in your heart and others hadn't used the phrase before you would've thought it would it would have caught on before that some guy got saved Freda to birth and birth the website. So on the ground in Ferguson you have an outpouring of the Spirit in the in the midst of the turmoil the upheaval in that city.

But the life goes on what's happened. What what kind of fruit are you seeing in people's lives. Well, I think over the last six years that initial flashpoint I would call the flashpoint that became the tipping point you know is where the Band-Aid wound up the unhealed racial warning in America really ripped off the infection began to come to the forefront for the first and am really beginning to take front and center in the American conscience, possibly for the first time the 60s at this level went.

And so, over the last six years lease thing pastors who you know, moving in and believers moved to place the initial denial, like a you know this is just the political roots are a just no black point claimant victim mentality card to all of a sudden at more and more incident. Please encounter ended up in the death of black folks you know and more mortgage happened all of a sudden, people begin to go while we we have a problem in we need to understand medicine. So over the last several years, nothing more. More opening to having the conversation and obscene. Also a great increase in the level of bitterness where there haven't been real Baltimore real valve for healing the wound and communities bit just really haven't had a lot of biblical worldview in terms of how the Mary R theology with our sociology in a way that can address this as you stated, deeply nuanced and and complex issue and so I think with George Lloyd we see a greater opening perhaps than ever, particularly in in the white evangelical spaces to actually be open to learning how to engage. I think this is just part of the maturation of the body of Christ as we move toward greater oneness before the return of the Lord.

Yeah it is so essential JT what you doing it and the focusing and identity in Christ and reconciliation principles, biblical principles, because there's no political or social solution that really deals with the depth of issues that were talking about. Was it Jewish believer in Jesus.

Early on I was given a book by the local rabbi about anti-Semitism in church history and was a shocker to read and in mymost translated book is on anti-Semitism in church history and it's a major reason why Jews around the world don't believe in Jesus believe an even spit when they hear his name because of church history in the way many professing Christians including top leaders treated Jews. It's it's a shocker, and people want to go into denial. So the same way you you read about some of your heroes being slaveowners and slave trade is not spiritual hero such as national heroes, you know this great theologian or the sky grew great books on prayer and he fought on this this Confederate side of the Civil War you think all concerts easier to deny than to recognize and is is not a matter of to be a white guilt, issuance or bike for Gillian's medical history is history and and you write it.

It's almost like this JT that I'm the scientist and I tell you I have now made this orange juice taste better than ever. Through these millions of new ingredients and everyone drinks and spits it out like that's the proof so you can have all these intellectual arguments that this doesn't exist in the really is a racist Cyclops that there is a problem that remains and there's a legacy that had fruit that remains and we still after we stopped to address that soap right now in our present situation. Not everybody is in a hotbed situation.

Most of us are not in cities having riots, but all of us are in cities where these issues have now come to the forefront speak to my listening audience in and just tell especially my white Christian was noise. What can they do what what would you recommend that they do is as first good steps to be God's ambassadors and ministers of reconciliation. While I think first of all, the first thing understand this is not a side issue to the gospel. This is a central issue… This is critical to understanding who do either. What here come to the earth what he came to do the first time in that it destroying up the wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile, and also what is coming back to do in the reconciliation of all as demand justice that we see in the book of Revelation. He actually appears to write history is wrong and and so even the gospel preaching the gospel to all non-ethnic groups coming central if not not in her side or departure from the gospel that the first thing understand the gospel merit metanarrative. I would say that we have to. We cannot platitude will not do even even partial political solutions will not do God I believe is allowing us to to be exposed at every level, every culture, every heart and it's an exposure in order to bring about a real healing and real transformation are repentant, not just you know of a moment of reconciliation in repentant but a change in how we live will enter into covenant relationship goblet very position herself to listen, learn, and lament with people who look totally different from you whom I have a different worldview from your different perspective. But then find a point of agreement where you can then begin the work together and think what can we do together that we cannot do a part and ask innovation and then implementation. What resources, what exchange Isaiah 58 is the blueprint.

If the fast that break the yoke of oppression outside.

Do Isaiah 58. Read it is not just fasting from but it's a transformation in how we live our lives, how we exchange and utilize our resources and serve one another into our destiny and enter into a higher place together and and in the midst of that that key statement you made that we can do things together that we can't do individually. So it's this recognition not just of addressing problems but of of moving together with God's purpose that only the church can realize on the earth. In John 17 is something very very dear to God's hearts you imagine how the Lord must look at his body right now so deeply divided.

One thing that every one of us can do is make that effort to come together in humility, a JT, keep up the great work and last question are you seeing pockets of outpouring or spiritual movement in different cities in the midst of chaos, writing, eluding, protesting, are you hearing reports of God moving we are seeing tremendous tremendous reports.

One of the things God invited us to do to create a tipping point with the body of Christ through mass movement on the street this past weekend.

We did something called prey on MLK work. We had over 300 cities in 10 different nations around the world. Go to the Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard or monument in their city and raise up a multiethnic human prayer chain at tell you there's something of a supernatural peace that comes upon the city when we display of John 17 unity in the street. The worst thing that were staying in Minneapolis. We did we get this holy activism that we call the wall and turned the George Ford site from from being the place of morning enter date or an altar of pain is what I call it into an altar of the presence of God and ever since we first did our first engagement. There it became a site where people were getting saved and baptized on a daily basis were seeing similar report in Portland and in and from other areas of the country, and though he is blessed are the peacemakers, they called us… And so we need to go where there is no P to make cookies not to keep it. The police can keep it are at least attempt to put it up to the sons and daughters of God to make the piece in the light. We can only do that by showing up so we are seeing again just tremendous harvest in every place where worsening great chaos and pain.

JT just looking at a comment on our Facebook thread. JT Thomas is the real deal. That's why we just had them on the air. Hey man, keep up the good work. Thanks for encouraging the body setting example everybody go to civil righteousness.org. Hope to see you face-to-face. One of these days.

Thank you so much for having you very welcome gutless