18- Making Separation or Divorce Less Traumatic for Children

Brought to you by volume. I see research life can bring many difficult situations, domestic violence, addictions, poverty and even sexual by your loved ones welcome Amy Cobb and the Q and thanks again.com 880.com you can listen in on a heart media sacrificing Lexmark plea 882 days later – I will be available in podcasts as well. Make sure to stay tuned later on we will open up the line sticky collars and you can call with questions or personal stories that you may want to share.

We started this shell because I intend this to be a platform for survivors of abuse or anyone suffering so that we became be of comfort to each other. We can learn from one another, providing an open dialogue and learning different ways of helping each other. This show will periodically provide testimonials and advice from professionals in the field. We are all successful.

It's a successful story because all that's happened is in the past being here now means we have many more chances to rewrite history, and even harmonize our lives, we can empower one another by letting Cal by providing transparency closer to the end of our recovery which ultimately is acceptance. We learn to redefine our thoughts and Poss in positive ways. When we turn to prayer and everything does fall into place and we open our eyes, eventually replacing negative coping mechanisms with healthy ones, and this is always a solution. If you believe if you seek God because for me. Love was the answer to all my problems, but ultimately God was my only chair today. I'm joined by Boris Niccolo. The high bar is hiring. And I also am excited to say that we have a very special guest today. Her name is and that shelf she's a psychologist and let me tell you something and little something about – she's got it.

She's a licensed clinical psychologist, a PhD who specializes in family issues and issues related to divorce parenting parenting planning and coparenting counseling. She is passionate about helping parents divorce respectfully, so that the entire family can heal and thrive.

Dr. Bush's experience and training in working with families where divorce is current or past has taught her to focus on helping parents develop parenting plans which support the health and well-being of all family members.

She has a death, and breath of professional and personal experience in nesting coparenting step parenting and single parenting issues during the 2008 recession Dr. Bushell and a colleague developed in nesting protocol for payments. He could not afford to separate or divorce. They presented this protocol at statewide conferences for attorneys and the health professionals and divorce financial professionals.

She is currently writing a book about this topic.

She blogs regularly on psychology today.com and on divorce mac.com Inc. 2013 Dr. Busher was honored with the collaborate practice California q. week award, which recognizes those who have made significant contributions to collaborate practices in California. She served as vice president on the Board of Directors for collaborate with practice California and on several state committees including cochairing the practice excellence committee. Dr. Bishop has presented widely in collaborated divorce, forgiveness, practices, and consensual dispute resolution topics to statewide international and local mental and service stations conferences including the annual California psychological Association and California Association of marriage and family therapists conferences at the annual State conference CP Cal and the annual conference of international Academy of collaborate of professionals while she is really accomplished.

Dr. Bushell is also cofounder of a residential treatment program for traumatized emergency responders nice and their families where she volunteers regularly. A graduate of Stanford University and the California graduate school of psychology. She has raised six children and lives in the wrath of California today. Let me introduce to you guys.

Dr. and the shell hello Dr. pretty amazing when you say that about me.

It's all true pain thing is thank you for having me on the shelf. Of course, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for being here, Dr. it's really important to have a professional ID on the show because a lot of people from therapy and it's wonderful so many people are coming together and helping each other again. So tell us a little bit about what it is that that II know that I did describe a lot of what you do that I just might be a little bit about my story. I know that I can relate and to tell you that she is. I really wish you would have been around.

Let's see maybe how many years ago when finial is now 25 was a year old before law that was never being no resolution custody battle that lasted 14 years and going.

Then again at six, when she was 16 and then again when she was. He wanted to name her and Prostituted and it's it's incredible because through all time just to pay the price. The time I hit the price and I always try to protect their throughout these custody battles that were 3 to 4 times a years and I was try to protect her by putting her in therapy once a week so that these things would not become damaged emotional to her is really important for me but yeah it was. It was difficult because it felt like a hard time I would see how it affected her I would see how sad she was. And the thing that he always said when he took me to court this really no evidence District Court against his back.

She came in with documenting lies leaning parental alienation and the problem is packed and the child was always too young to speak for herself how many experiences like this. I have, and in fact the way that I found myself working in a collaborative divorce field was when I was working with you kind of high conflict divorces. I was going home with both the worst stomach ache every day and they were literally making me sick. And so when I heard about collaborative divorce and load practice group in our area bringing in mental health potentials for the first time I kind of jumped at that opportunity and and in recent years I haven't worked with high conflict divorce anymore. Mostly because of how it affects me.

It's so painful. I'd rather put my time and energy into helping people divorce in a way that less harmful by the way, you know, the parental alienation currently is changing because I think people recognize that it's not parent turning their children against each other necessarily in so we call it now, refuse or resist when a child refuses or resist going to the other parent more about the child and left about blaming the other parent, which I think probably reduces the animosity between the parent is another example of soothing, less adversarial and will use my CV to try to poison child against her mother. The child loves both no matter what in the televised that parent can do no wrong. This person is legally the parents are both good and the way to the pier eating the child please not tell that child is in a recent parent for seeing these mean things about daddy before seeing these mean things about mommy so there's really no point why would anybody to do that and I remember my daughter crying and screaming. Mom, I don't want to go there but I would have to flush her because that's the very same thing he's accusing me of not doing you know when children are refusing or resisting to go what they need. Also they need to recognize that they have a part of each parent in them immune from intuitive level. I think children know that there made up of both mommy and daddy and so if they turn against one parent there really turning against the part of themselves and you know this can have a long-term impact on you. Hopefully in therapy can work out that conflict within themselves. But it's important for kids to be able to accept both parents with all their limitations. Assuming that the parents aren't violent or abusive in some way that kids need to be able to internalize and accept the parts of each parent that they love me, it's true. I mean, for me it was.

It was difficult because I would see how my daughter was sometimes used as upon any so important to have people like you in this world really is so needed because if these things are not taking care of.

It's not just the custody battles policy throughout life. Even when my daughter was attacked and almost killed and I nursed her back to health. When she got out of the hospital and she was with us for two years and 1/2 and it was a lovely taking care of her and being with her head is such a great relationship and because the animosity still existed when I wrote my memoir now he's playing his games again and now they seem daughter moved away. She's now Daniel one of the houses that he rents and she's talking right hand and talking with my mother because he talks to my mother and unfortunately it has to be parents that you can work with parents that are willing to change for the better.

For the sake of their child is absolutely true. In divorce, most parents love their children, even if they grow to hate their partner and physical abuse that she raised to a whole another level where issues of safety, particularly with young children. I'm sorry that you have a difficult time. It sounds really painful. All no one is exempt assessing so it's okay. I saw two terrible story today on Facebook.

Lloyd really puts things into perspective.

So yes, it's totally okay because it helps me to understand someone else that if they're going to do is that if they're going to battles I could give them advice. Something I didn't know important to analyze once my attorney told me that my daughter was not the best historian keep an open eye that the child might want to be trying to please.

One parent in trying to please the other parent should look at things from all angles. Their space that I could now tell people that I would not have known otherwise so you know there's another interesting. About the impact of the conflict on children, which is that on most parents will try to protect the children.

Like another words they feel they won't have the argument played child is present in hopefully avoid the argument at the door with the transfer happenings. But even if you do a tremendous job of protecting your child from the conflict.

The children pick up on it through you. By the way you hold them if you had an argument with your ex, you can talk how your child differently than when you're feeling at peace, and children are sponges so they can pick up on the stress and conflict. Even if you're doing the best possible job trying to protect them.

This is why in my opinion, trying to reduce the conflict between the parents is most important task of the divorce and postdivorce because it does have an effect on the children.

I think it helped when parents turn to other adults for support have to be a therapist. But if they have friends that they can talk to. They have confidence so important to be able to have some place to take those that could be able to vent or to take your concerns or worries or fears to another adult. So that you claim you don't bring them to the children when you hug them even if you're not talking about them so that my daughter must've picked up on the many times that I was surprised because to me I was pretty much alone I was in Orson in the world and this is the only thing hard with my daughter. She was my world. I did not believe in abortion and I felt like I was in a loser to somebody who is abusive and therefore I would not even have the opportunity to protect her and that was killing you was you and I mean yes you do need support to something God had made friends and others. They have family for those who are just joining us this is just a quick reminder, we are going to be opening up our lines when we turn our number is 305-541-2350 again that 305-541-2350.

You can listen to the chair every Friday at 2 PM on 880 that is the thing is, domestic violence, addictions, poverty and even sexual abuse by your loved ones.

The issue is not spinning their book to overcome all obstacles shouldered with the love of God, your husband and your family. You can succeed. Love is the answer. God is the key work reveals from a very sincere and honest position for me. Cabo's wife, a warrior who didn't give up and achieve the dream of her life. You can get to know more about her at her story on www.godisthekeyword.com buying her book on Amazon.com and now we continue with daily gobble in the 218 80 abuse so that I get the care you hosting a combo on 80 that is today were talking about how to change the adversary language separation and divorce our special guest Dr. and Michelle also joined by Dr. builders love. I believe you had some questions okay. Dr. Dr. Bush was reading your website and this is interesting what you're doing so this is like a combination between therapy and coaching.

This you know people I coaching. I think coaching is a much more simple word to people. It is very different from therapy. One way to think about it is that the therapist helps you unpack your bag and decide what you want to keep and what you want to throw away and a coach helps you carry your bags from here to there from the beginning of the divorce to the end of the divorce so that one way to think of the difference between the two of them.

My my role as the divorce code is to help prepare people for meeting to help people be able to articulate what's important to them to know where there's give no what might trigger them and have some skills to calm down if they needed deleting that night Eliane, the Jews are they part of the process or product yet it's a good question in the collaborative process. We want to think of the whole family and the include the children in that and so there is often another clinician on the college child specialist and that person is always a licensed mental health person, but there again not doing therapy. Their role is to meet with the children. Maybe one time maybe up to three times to bring the voice of the children to the table that and also to reassure the children.

I think that their parents are in good hands and will be well taken care of, but that we want the children voice to be heard and felt as a coach. I'll often take the child specialist report and help the parents digestive process that if the children are asking for something in particular or perhaps complaining about something in particular. As a coach will try to help you think the children really don't want to say directly to their parents but they understand that it's not a confidential process like therapy what they say at the discretion of the top specialist will be shared. While one is used for divorce mediation for us wonderful mediators. How far we'd like interesting goals of the eye seems like really really productive because yes I was the supportive system of families all went through her custody battles, let's say, for many years and so we went to mediation ballot happiness okay okay I wasn't very happy with what you dollars but was no productive in the whole system to bees like really weirdly broken and what you are doing. Seems like a very bright light, prioritizing, and thinking perspective important good for people with their filing away.

There is a level playing field. One person is more emotional than the other or if there is no back mediation called back between spouses that are divorcing collaborative divorce really evolved out of that that mediation wasn't quite enough for people, but most people don't want to go to court and so the collaborative process. The parents of the spouses agree upfront that they will not go to court, and if they decide to litigate the professional they're working collaboratively will withdraw. So if an incentive for people mockup brightly court. You know not to do the will of the court thing and it helps people stay through the negotiation process. Even when the going gets tough.

What I like about the collaborative process as they get more support than you get in mediation, but it still not litigation. No nonadversarial path so we look like something you just company because I honestly don't like it. Actually not started in the mid-90s started by a man named Webb in Minnesota and I know that there are collaborative practice, but you're right, we owe you in my okay actually there's a very excellent collaborative practice organization in Miami and their end date actually really support for collaborative practitioners so if you look online to find out more information about what it what it is. People are concerned about the cost and it is more costly than mediation. Generally spend more than $65,000 for many years in our media. You have been able to do it in a collaborative amount of money that you spent helping that mediation with the two of you to work out that terrible exactly why the club pull people like you and who don't want to litigate and do want to try to resolve the problem through mutual agreement. Somehow, but mediation doesn't provide enough support right okay do you feel like opposing directors because there notes so much. Please find an official I mean it is not tied to the question anyway so there are always attorneys in the collaborative process.

Client will have an attorney I work they call themselves no litigators in recovery because they don't want to go to court anymore to work in mediation or collaboration was simply nice, calm, and deep to work in this model, they usually feel that what they do best on their fee that you know they can do but what they are and what they're not really very good at it. Psychology though by bringing something you know if you call your lawyer to vent about your your ex are you the person you're trying to divorce the lawyers really like to talk to your anger earlier fear of the attorneys in the collaborative model really are very welcoming to having special kind of like subcontractors on the team working with client on now litigating attorneys litigating attorney for people who are in the art. Truthfully, for litigating attorney that don't support the collaborative model and I don't know you know I think they have many reasons why that might be mediation for start of the attorney didn't like that either. Does it make take time to come into the mainstream rights does because you're just another way since time and then you go back to the same place. What is your opinion on involving psychologists in the process of the courts early on, like for example when does the child can write voice that's kind of so we can be determined early on know the judge's perspective or we know one of the parents perspective, but I do know maybe a professional is involved into the top doesn't even know how this will confuse right be great if this had not try something yeah yeah mutual very good diction. I live in Northern California and I do think the courts are interested in the child will not go to court, but it did have a mental health person be able to scan yeah right because this is just like them who are attorneys or other people are volunteering to know, I represent a child that they spent what an hour and 1/2 two hours with the child three or four hours with tolerance and this ability to come up with an idea was best for the child. Do they have to divorce cases yet all okay in the old days when Jimbo and my husband's parents divorced they would take the children into court and after the children, to which parent that does half now.

How you I do believe that the children should have a voice, not a vote and in the collaborative model. The we what we want the children to have their interests at the table and in my practice there been several cases where actually met with adult children, even though not about custody. Don't children may have concerns that parents are not being fair to one another or that you know they're not being well taken care of by their professional or that you know that that the conflict will continue even though their adult having a meeting with somebody like me as a child can alleviate a lot of fears and make it easier for the parents than to finish the divorce so smart because he takes a holistic approach you include the whole family which is what's going on and say somebody realizes they need help and take a look at therapy and grave digging better in life and their behavior that everyone else in the environment and still Wednesday so important to approach it with a stick. We make sure that everyone is influencing this person's life that everyone is in the same and the same people that they all understanding what's important and respecting one another and you know just treating the way that people should treat one another.

I feel like we've lost a lot of us have lost our values and the forgotten what it's like to to be nothing conditionally to be forgiven and to understand that when a human and no one's perfect and we can make mistakes and it's okay if the person is not like you and it's okay if somebody else has flossed so do you. So if you just learn to be more forgiving, more accepting and love no matter what I mean.

We get along so much better they wouldn't be so many custody battles will you the psychology today about changing the serial language like custody that bothered me because custody is what you do when you when police take someone and depositing them in jail on a child's right six) and how much language that we use every single day. When we talk about divorce that is adversarial and if we could hang the language. It doesn't change the way we think and the way we behave like my hope is like seeing that cup half empty or exceeding the cup half full to what we choose to see it, but some of us we need guidance and some of us we need education and some of us we need encouragement that we will continue to talk about these amazing things with our wonderful cast and for the ¥16 this the care you host any capital, remember our lines are open like to call and speak to the psychologist if you'd like to share your story I numbers 305-541-2350 again that's 305-541-2350. You can listen to us every Friday at 2 PM.

This is very different by any evidence of spit it out.

But is it exactly thinking about thinking. I will keep you in the footage expected to make it was the company to become overly so I can know.

I will life can bring many difficult situations, domestic violence, addictions, poverty and even sexual abuse by your loved ones.

The issue is not stay there, but to overcome all obstacles and show that with the love of God, your husband and your family. You can succeed. Love is the answer.

God is the keyword reveals from a very sincere and honest position. Amy Cabo's life, a warrior who didn't give up and achieve the dream of her life. You can get to know more about her at her story on www.godisthekeyword.com buying her book on Amazon.com and now we continue with Amy Cabo and the 218 80 thanks for joining us this is care and I'm your host Cabo. We ate A.D.A.M. that this talking about separation and how to make them more accurate panic bill and today we have a special guest this show were also joined by Dr. Boris hello Dr. this is for you Dr. and Michelle, I saw that displayed kind of interesting that the sound just came out and I was thinking about this myself because what bothers me most about it, we can my daughter's father and I were never married but it was a separation. We did have a child in common and what bothers me most about the divorce is how I saw that it affected my daughter how a featureless school there, how she felt very pressured and I thought to myself what that cases how important it is to be amicable and to do this in the way people have no idea how it can affect the child. I mean, and it can bring a child to suicide. It can make a child. The past is not just a problem of the appearance and I want to talk more about that.

Dr. how we can change the language in the point of view from being very angry and very and having animosity towards one another.

Another to having understanding and compromise for baby most important.

For no matter how you feel about the person you're leaving, or separating from being divorced from that no matter how you feel about that you set those feelings aside and both focus on the children if you can do that then you're already off to a pretty good start if you can prioritize your children well-being, and that your own emotions. Besides the research that if you can do that that after a period of adjustment. The children which could be a year or two children can have the same measures of success in life as kids from intact families, meaning they do just as well in school, they have good relationships with friends there mentally healthy measures of success that come when you're successful at protecting children from the conflict hard and especially when the conflict is hard, but if you get the support that you need most of the time people can do that people will focus on their children and try to just let go. The conflict number is unfortunately the conflict never really helped.

I think you need to cut their tiles first think you just have to remind way and just blind us. I'm sorry 004 say they love their children and they want to do what's best for the children never had a parent tell me they didn't want to do that? You know what I call coaching patient helping parents understand how it is that at that child's particular age particular development and that child's particular temperament and situation in the family that how they can best work as parents postseparation how they can coparent successfully coparent that mean that they're going to have a lot of contact with this early situation like yours and others it might be more like parallel parenting, but it's an agreement paralleled which protect the children from the conflict goal is to do whatever it takes to protect the kids from the conflict that the highest priority on exchanges at the police station is a danger projection, do yeah I mean yeah I believe if the appearance came along that child would definitely be a more well-rounded human being with understand how to be a better parent themselves because having a successful marriage in life isn't always guaranteed is learning how to best react to circumstances that we deal with in life. But how would someone be able to get in touch with you. Maybe read your blogs and recently articles your information. I'm sure there's lots of people out there that are in a bad predicament. Actually, I ran into somebody that's that is going through a custody battle it's happening more often than should really be happy. We'll give you my what was quite interesting people search for my psychology today or not.com and I will particularly for men on fatherly.com website is familiar with the men going to divorce and they can search under my name was on the website, there was a question you know her Facebook account Bruce Susanna asking, what is your opinion, the cost of the broth old divorce is very very prolonged for years. When is the time for psychologist to step in and actually say okay that's enough. I'm strongly suggesting that something happens. Well I needed something light up. Yeah, child or parent is in therapy because of the confidential relationship and treatment oriented that therapists feel that someone else needs to step in more into the legal proceeding down there would have to be a referral to someone else on the child therapist couldn't do it. It would be stepping outside of her role and limitation of her will. So nobody's in therapy then one hopes that the school psychologist or someone you know someone to the church or temple that someone else would know that the pediatrician is also another sometimes the point of entry or teachers and if they can they notice that a child is not performing well or is regressing either to have behavioral problems or incompletely withdrawn and not typical behaviors. Her children, then that person can start the process of trying to make a referral from a court order for the evaluation here is the lesson, mostly because there's so expensive. It may take a long and if it any other way to reach an agreement without going through the evaluation very preferable will hopefully have a dysfunctional family have all parties agreeing to cup cooperate in our parties will need to do the right thing for someone like me. I just think I tried. I tried everything and did work and no money only solution was prayer and hope for the best and believe it or not, that the past for no reason not yet offered for no reason and I worry for a reason is in the hands she always stayed with me okay when it's so special thanks to a very special delivery, Esq. oh yes, that is, there is something you really have no one in life, no family nobody and your friends can do anything for you, forget it.

Just as poor as you so long, swish like in my book, by the grace of God TV.

He represented me pro bono for many years I have gone through seven or eight years of custody battles before I met Boris before I finally got married for the first time. Well believe it or not, is like my guardian angel family that while I had him and that Lisa had the security blanket of knowing that even even though she can go to court to attack him.

He was that one attorney that could stand up his baby knee lying conniving and turning every other time you live in court. Not this man, this man was like an angel can step in his little pinky in nature and you'll stay safe and for that I will forever be grateful. One of the points that you how important it is for people to have professionals working on their behalf and feel comfortable with and feel qualified in some high conflict divorce. People spend a lot of money while the attorneys are fighting with each other and wish you were attorney actually know each other and work together on cases in the past where they have been able to come to agreement cases usually go more smoothly because the attorneys on your money duking it out with the child while my case is really really bad and you know that pivotal point in my case is still in its my daughter away and that pivotal point in my case was when this account is Dr. Evelyn. The money you had actually she was picked out by my daughter's father and she came in who had interviewed us all and she was to testify to the child play with and I remember her saying well with the father.

There's a lot of structure or structure shared his faith or structure that the mother is March and then that's when the judge asked what's more important than God. She stayed with me but I just happened to be so that we did have professional until she said that in court that she was no longer in our case because you know the father didn't like that response but it's important to have a professional and somebody that cannot bikini because it comes a point that the attorneys are fighting and the parents are fighting and the child is young and the dishes and know which way to go or who to believe and what happens a lot of years of unnecessary suffering for everyone you know your situation was so painful and so difficult. But what I what I wanted to say also that it was unavoidable.

Your situation because of who you were separating from, but in my experience and I think there is something to think about about less than 4% of divorce cases actually go to trial, go through the prophets that you had to go through that well and I hope that it made you stronger afford and your daughter all of my head I look at the glass half full. I'm proud of the fact that I am more understanding you yeah because like when you think about 96% of people don't love each other anymore. They hate each other's but they can't stop fighting, but still 96% of divorces and battling sometimes on, the court held that they do end up settling without going to trial and what you went through the most painful way to go through a divorce and it sounds like you know that was your only option.

Sometime it is the only option. You do need to have another decision-maker outside of the family.

It was a great option as well tell you that BC no better therapies and would have received from God and the guys is interesting. This doesn't then believe it or not we come to the end of the shell again and it's been wonderful having you Dr. and Boris stinky fair interesting questions and I want to let you guys know the next weekend start announcing who can have next weekend at the show continues within a have more idea in my profession is coming on the show because we don't know what somebody may be suffering from what may be their scenario or white might be need to be able to help themselves.

So this is why we are announcing them next week will have somebody just she's an author, editor, speaker in a feng shui master. That means that a healer, what is that that heater. I looked it up with a process of meditation that teaches people to develop natural intuition by changing their brainwave cycle to the more relaxed that a wave I guess that relaxed state.

Okay anyhow thing today.

So much for having my shell and I hope that you talk to you guys again.

I'll be on here again next week guys, this is the cure on your host Amy U been listening to a A.D.A.M. that there remember that you can download the app by going to www.880therapist.com that the website up 880 again next Friday.

Remember, this is the last two raw by that barracks building is