God and Christianity—Beyond Any Reasonable Doubt

God increases the entity and any reasonable doubt that at the top will discuss today right here in the world you bring your program with the missing is the biblical worldview of Christian and to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God. Faith in Jesus Christ, I'm David. We hope the program website is the Christian worldview.you when God told Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden that they could eat from any tree except for one that was a test of faith would Adam and Eve trust God at his word, or would they doubt him and disobey the fast forward to today and Faith is still God's test whether it's looking at God's creation and having faith that he exists. Whether starting the Bible and placing faith in its reliability or whether listening to our conscience and by faith, knowing there are universal truths placed there by God. These are not long leaps of faith, but rather honestly, considering all the evidence and reasonably concluding that what God has said and revealed his true even if we can't see and know everything will our guest today and the program is J Warner Wallace. He's a former cold case homicide detective in Los Angeles. He is also a former atheist who thought investigating the veracity of the Bible and Jesus will be like investigating Santa Claus. That is until he started to put his detective skills to work and found out the evidence about God, Jesus and the Bible is beyond any reasonable doubt. Here's the first segment of the interview with J. Warner Wallace, Jim, it's great to have you back on the program. It has been a couple years though. And so for new listeners who perhaps didn't hear your previous interview on the program.

Tell us briefly how you became a follower of Christ is a very interesting story and how your LA homicide background played into that. Not really ready for anybody to tell me much about what Christianity was Christian to my family. We didn't hang out with Christians growing up so I'm like 35 years old before really started to look at even Scripture you know to take out a Bible and and we would add, say, and I was not against the idea, but I was so ridiculous on its face that it didn't really deserve an investigation on other words, I was a detective at the time.

I knew some Christians we arrested a lot of people told us they were Christians like the few Christians I knew who were cops, they really didn't seem like a good answer my questions, you know, I was pretty sarcastic terms of the kinds of questions I would ask them. So I felt like there wasn't a really good representative around me. You can answer questions and I just thought this is like thinking up and believing in yell fairytales and there's no no one investigates whether or not Santa Claus exists. So why the world what I investigate whether God exists, but my wife was more receptive to the idea, especially when we had kids.

She had been raised in a Catholic setting so she can that will delete your kids to church and we were going to get about 18 years. By this time I thought well if you want to go to church. I'm happy to go with you. Why have to be a Christian to honor you and go to all be happy to go to church.

As long as you want to believe it, but the church and she happened to pick was a pastor who was provocative enough to get me interested in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Not not because I thought he was God.

Just because she convinced me he was a smart guy. A lot of important things to say, that happened to get some of these things right and I thought well you know I was happy to read in ancient sage who has wisdom to be more than that and so I bought a bottle and I started to analyze it the same way I would analyze any set of eyewitness feel like I were cold cases. New York unsolved murders in which you have no access most of the time you have no access to the witnesses who were around 35 years ago and you even have access to the people who interviewed those witnesses. Although you have their supplemental reports. So what is that sound like is like the gospel is no access to the people who saw this stuff and I don't have the access to the people who wrote them like Luke or Nora or Mark so I have to use the same skill set to compress and that's what I did and after you held up six of the month. Of this, I realize that these these measure up and I had like I asked myself what I do, then with this guy Jesus of Nazareth. So that's basically how I became a Christian USC said which book you said this since you said the question is not whether or not we have ideas, opinions, or pre-existing points of view.

The question is whether or not we will allow these perspectives to prevent us from examining the evidence objectively so explain more what you mean by that statement well and what you're right we don't back, you know, we are looking for a jury pool in which nobody had any opinions or biases or predispositions on certain issues you wouldn't impanel anybody that's the problem right there. Bring in 70+ people, we gotta pick 12 for the box maybe four alternatives along trials with pics 16/70+ people and how do we get there we well we can't find anybody who is with a devoid of an opinion or or have any nursery web have biases but the question is do we believe we ask of this.

Can you suspend your bias can you suspend your predispositions you suspend any historical background you have with any police officers or with the whatever attorneys whatever we may bring into this trial. Are you the kind of person that, and some people you can fool us and say what I can do that when I can't but the most the time we get it right.

We we we are able to put people in the box.

We know are opinionated we know they have a life history but we feel comfortable that they can they can hold cold that stuff back and and be fair about their decision and that's really all you can hope for.

Think with anyone who's examining evidence and coming to a conclusion including people who are examining evidence about Christianity. That's all you can hope she Warner Wallace assist today here in the Christian worldview.

He's a former LA homicide detective and now she's an author or speaker television guest.

His website is called case, Christianity.com. He's also for our Twin Cities listeners is going to be coming to the Twin Cities on March 1 and second for the lakes free church fifth annual worldview apologetics conference tell us more about that Jim find out more about wanted. So they continue to build on the kind of interest that they are regional if I congratulate them on that and it can be held at the lakes free church that's at lakes free.org lakes free.org you'll see the banner and the address for the actual conferences in Lindstrom Minnesota. I'm looking forward to it.

Really data because it because you know as well as I do that that sometimes we get asked to come. You and I both get asked to come and speak at apologetics conference is where somebody is a regional conference but but there's interestingly less interest sometimes and in churches than there are in and the people who run conferences, and you know the best chance we have, to convince Christians of the importance of being able to describe to the world why Christianity is true is probably going to occur in the local church where they attend every Sunday, so there happens to be a out leadership in this church that is taking on this challenge and have really built a congregation that not only is is faithful can worship with their hearts and worship with prayer and worship song but they're able to worship with their minds and that's I think really a rare gift, even locally there and it certainly is not that the the common thing with you and I probably experience in churches nationwide like to see more. This very much correct and that it's just too much emphasis on the methodology and the emotion experience when you Christianity needs to be driven by the mind and then to thought yesterday or today to go to people roots are doing some work on the nature of all and how the people who experience all the wonder are actually healthier and on and on several ways to measure mental health and physical health is very interesting right that we are experiencing on a course of about a Christian I was to experience all I look at the universe is in the sky around me in nature.

Granted, but but we know as Christians are there some truth to this, because we've been designed to worship and when we experience on how we have actual physical respect the science that shows that we are healthier as a result.

Now I could. I can't blame then church leaders who know this. We have a sense of this that we want our worship services to bring people to that point of and and sometimes we do this by way of worship by reading Scripture, but is also another way to do that is to really look at the unbelievable evidence we have for the existence of a divine creator and and that we can be brought to the point of intellectual not just emotional and I think that that would be very powerful at all, so I can see why sometimes as leaders, church leaders week we we move toward other forms of this kind of sense of wonder and we do it emotionally, but that is really quite possible to get elsewhere, live there rationally.

That's were trying to do. Discussion topic is the process of discovering truth is, can lead definitely to always net amazing the way we fully find something out about God or Christ or the gospel or something in Scripture. So I agree with that J. Warner Wallace with us today in the Christian worldview in the conference you're going to be speaking at each of your three books, which are God's crime scene, which is the case for God's existence in the cold case Christianity was the case for the reliability of the Gospels, and then your most recent one is forensic faith how to share the truth effectively. So just for the rest of the time together. I was can ask your question or two about each of those blocker to give people little taste of what they might here at the conference.

Let me start up or reading a passage. Jim from Romans chapter 1 well-known passage. There is starting in verse 18 for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them. For God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made so that they are without excuse for even though they knew God knew God existed they did not honor him as God or give thanks but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. That's from Romans chapter 1, a very powerful passage and goes on to talk to how God gives them over onto different things. But why do you think Jim that more people now in our society do not believe in God, and at times passed earlier will stay in American history and what the ramifications of not believing that God exists, what is started to write about will we have the highest American value right now, and in it and it's, wired in our rebellious nature began with his autonomy. We want autonomy. Specially, moral autonomy, we don't want to be told we are a kind independent nation to begin with, where wired that way. We broke away from another. In another country in order to do that so we are, wired for this kind of autonomy don't tread on me and so we exacerbated that is our technology so that we are now at information world.

We are an information age. In this information age we can amplify our autonomy. We have information autonomy method we can pick the kinds of news we want to tailor our interest. There is enough new sites out there where you stand politically, socially considerably liberally. I don't care where you stand. You can find new sources that will simply be an echo chamber to your already pre-held beliefs so you can isolate yourself in autonomy and even in terms of media you consume. We have so many choices. You know how to get the real you are about 57 when I was a kid you had three choices when it came to watching any kind of meeting my kids have thousands of choices and you see programming now is developing on social media platforms.

It's on Netflix of Amazon prime. You got all kinds of choices. You can even search and only find those media choices that echo your privately held beliefs so we have amplified autonomy in the country and it is going to get worse. I think, and that is the problem right me, you, we are able to isolate ourselves and in small micro narratives our own personal micro-narratives of autonomy when in fact Christianity proposes a metanarrative that screams for submission, just the opposite.

Okay G Wallace will finish answering that question after this first break of the day here in the Christian worldview much more coming up as we talk about God and Christianity beyond any reasonable doubt. I'm David. We were back after this disease, all that's Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, we ought to never become indifferent to the slaughter of the innocents taking place in our country. This is why we are offering a DVD series entitled life is best that will equip you to stand for life and against this injustice in his two DVDs that are 13 episodes that address all the facets of abortion from the worldview battle to what you can do for a limited time you can order the life is best DVD series for a donation of any amount to the Christian worldview.

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See Warner Wallace LA homicide detective, now an author or speaker in well-known Christian apologist just before the end of the last break Jim was finishing an answer about how our society is so autonomous individualized today. Here's the rest of that answer ourselves and in small micro narratives our own personal micro-narratives of autonomy when in fact Christianity proposes a metanarrative that screams for submission, just the opposite.

How popular do you think it's going to be to to try to convince a country that is now more and more success in its micro narratives in its autonomy that they ought to embrace how would you even if, for example, if I wanted to scream to the world the truth of the Christian world you 30 years ago I had to do on three networks now begin to do that. I mean there's just too many platforms.

I could never cover them all to be harder and harder for us to convince anyone of metanarratives. I think it's easier and easier for people to say Nay Nay I'm going to isolate myself into my micro narratives and that's the problem that's only going to get worse right as we go forward. And that's why I think is important for Christians like you and I to be engaged in the kind of information world that we are engaged in right this is about podcasting in writing and in and about having a platform of social media and that's that's really what we all have to sound crazy but but we as a mama boomer I have to get an early adopter of technology. If I want to be involved now as an evangelist because it used to be. I could just feel go church to church if I can get on the three networks I was good to go that those days are gone and so that's why do you think it's going be harder to convince people of the Christian world which really do need Christians and really all of these different avenues with all these different platforms. Now there's a lot of places that the gospel needs to get out that sexy good news to me that the gospel can be propagated and read and shared a lot more easily now because there are more platforms as well. So there is some there is some good news to the Internet as well. Jay will have to go church to church right to do that and and now you can reach as many people from your desk. If you have a proper Internet platform you not use that you're creating content you reach thousands every day were used to be a fight with every week and I might meet me at that thousand so so I do think that the same time it's in conferences like were talking about at at at Lake three church, right where it is your separate truth from relationship and that is never as effective so I can write up an article and send it out to the Internet but because I don't have a relationship with the people who are reading it.

You only have so much impact what happens as we develop over time.

Relationships with people either on the basis of of writing every day or at these kinds of conferences we can actually get to meet people and shake their hand and being a face-to-face conversation with people and if that combination of truth and relationship that I think is so powerful, so that's why think that those those kinds of conferences will always have the utmost value could affect the place where you get to see people face-to-face.

That's the face of that's becoming, dying art form of being able to communicate face-to-face Jim you talk about four categories of evidence that leads to believing that God exists because you list those four categories.

Just focus on talking about one of them yet sure so so you can get a place. We believe that God exists and still not be a Christian rubbed a lot of people believe that God exists in our Christians. We wheel the Christian world because we can test the eyewitness accounts of the Gospels, and there are four ways to test them evidentially. So for example we can test them by asking what how they written early enough to have been written by people who were really eyewitnesses have they been been supported by other forms of evidence is only two forms of evidence direct and indirect evidence.

Direct evidence is eyewitness testimony.

Indirect evidence is everything else like archaeology all kinds of other forms of indirect evidence to help support what's been written. The third is have they changed over time, or have they been consistent without change witness changes statement.

Over time that you can trust them in the last is that this is the witness possess a bias that would cause them to lie to you about something they want to achieve some evil at now for me. I knew right away that if you wanted to lie about Jesus. Here's how you did you wait for the one who knew the truth. Guys could even write this latent history and having no one around who can tell you it can tell you can say that this guideline about Jesus. I knew Jesus. He was none of that stuff. So the early dating of the Gospels will take you a pretty long way toward verifying their reliability because it's so much harder to lie about somebody in the presence of people who would know the difference now. Interestingly, Paul writes in first Corinthians 15 that Jesus that there were people out there like that first 2015 3 to 8 is a great great passage for I delivered to you as a first importance what I also received the Christ died for our sins according to the Scripture, that he was buried, that he was real was raised on the third day according to the computer that he appeared to Cephas and then to the 12 and and and this is all he also says after that he appeared to more than 500 of the brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some of fall asleep really. So you're telling me at the time of that writing that there were 500 witnesses of the risen Christ. Multiple were still around so that the first Corinthian church in Corinth.

Rather, could actually investigate and ask them questions about the early dating of Scripture is so helpful right because he's saying maybe I'll believe me there is nearly 500 people *.* around who are alive. You can ask either incredibly gutsy whiskey could be lying or just true and he's using it as a point of reference, and I think that's helpful because it is harder to lie about using the high Christology of Jesus that the fact that Jesus was God incarnate is pretty clear in the book of Romans.

In the book of first and second Corinthians. So I think that early document. It's clear that Paul is saying, Jesus rose from the dead, and there were people still alive who could testify to counsel's residence for the Christian faith and for Christ himself in the Gospels, Jay Warner Wallace with this today cold case, Christianity.com also going to be a speaker at the upcoming Lakes free world, the apologetics conference on Friday, March 1 and Saturday, March 2 at Lake three church in Leinster, Minnesota Lakes free.org is the website. One of the perpetual questions to Jim is that people will say that to keep them come from coming to saving faith rhyming to mention two of them will say whether too many hypocrites in the church. That's one of them and the second thing that says well look all the evil and suffering in the world.

There is a good God, he would never allow such terrible evil and suffering. How do you address both those two generations.

Second, the last word on the Odyssey how to solve the problem of evil… But I do think absolutely you're right. When we go to college campuses right were going to get some version of those two objections in almost every question some variation of that right very powerful.

I would hope that the church is full of hypocrites. It should be and I would be surprised if it is what we hold as Christians. The highest ethical standard is not ours is not my personal opinion is the objective standard is written in Scripture and hasn't changed in 2000 years its public it's available to everyone. If you say you're a Christian, everyone probably knows your standard because they can they can have access to it, not a Christian.

I hold a personal subjective standard. How would you ever even know if I'm acting hypocritically you'll know my worldview is for all you know the jerk you're seeing is completely consistent with what I believe you just don't know. It turns out, I would expect Christians to appear to be more hypocritical than anyone because our standard is higher than anyone else's.

And it's more public than anyone else's. But that's the whole point right is that yet. Like I know lots of hypocritical atheists. They'll tell you what they believe in. The next time you see him before he violated. I will not hold the hypocrisy of atheist against atheism as long as they are not willing to hold hypocrisy of Christians against Christianity. The problem we have in all these worldviews are these dirty little things called humans, and we have that common that we constantly will violate what we think is ours generally will be say is our standard because we want to cut a corner to serve ourselves.

I get that that is not the best course. I do think that the Christians will appear to be more hypocritical than any other group, for those two reasons. High standard in its public so I think that's that's about that. Also I can speak to the look. You can throw the dart against the wall and just draw the bull's-eye wherever the dart lands and I did that for 35 years he I always hit my target because I would just shift the target if I missed, but now I can't shift the targets the target exist before even throw the dart and so there's times I miss it, that speaks more to the value in the still solid kind of a trustworthy nature of the target that it does about me. I think that the fact I can't hit it speaks well for what it is I think Christianity proposes which is the highest possible ethical standard to come to evil.

The problem, of course, as well. Look, lots ways to address this and II think it is a cumulative case like like every case I've ever worked. I work some horrific evil that people have done even the young children, and when I see that I have to answer that for parents why that happened to my daughter well I think is not possible answer for that.

It's a cumulative answer.

This is why why this guy did that crime is probably five or six reasons I have to consider even when I make my case and when you see any active evil. You have to ask yourself, would God possibly have five or six good reasons or or set up plans. He's trying to annex local one of them is simply this evil to me as an atheist, was was evil because I expected everything in the life to happen in 90 years. Everything good was going to happen to me. I want to live 90 years pain free. If I got cancer at 50 and died early. Obviously that is evil that because I had a view of the world in which life was a line segment from… Birth to Barry to the grave and that… Line segment was well-liked I saw life as there's no life beyond this knife. Christianity is true. Life is not a line segment. Life is a ray starts at birth extends through the.we call death and it goes on infinitely into the future it we are eternal creatures. Now you want to suffer some evil in the first year of your life.

About time you are five you already forgotten about it because evil is always measured in the context of your life and so you want to experience the sickness and illness or surgery in the first year. Some people get have some pretty important surgeries in the first year of life there painful, but all the time there.

Five. They have no recollection of an issue seen in the context of five years.

By the time you're 90 Your Way over it will look if if our worldview is true we are eternal creatures that 90 years you think of as eternity is not eternity it's just the first 90 years. A thousand years into eternity that 90 years will be the place a million years into eternity that 90 years will be a millisecond if the Christian world is true. We have to keep evil in its place is minimized by the fact we are all eternal creatures were coming up with Jay Warner Wallace next on the Christian review radio program. I'm David. We environmental scaremongering is the favored tactic of the left to gain massive government control. After all, if you can convince people that we are imperiling our very existence by human caused climate change. There is no tax law will reordering a society that goes too far.

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All those are available for a donation of any amount to the Christian rule of you. So go ahead and take advantage of those are guest today and the program is Jay Warner Wallace is a former LA homicide detective's website is cold case, Christianity.com and were talking about God and Christianity beyond any reasonable doubt. Let's get back to the third segment of that interview, Jim. It seems that the nonbelieving world. Of course they have all kinds of criticisms about the Bible, the Gospels, there is there copies of copies. There's no originals are passed down through oral traditions, those contradictions is not relevant today so your nonbeliever say those kinds of things about the Bible and coupling to questions here just for the sake of time as part one part two is it seems that Christians are less people of the book. Now, another words they don't seem to have the same appetite for personal study of Scripture when they go to hear the word preached just about more about felt needs shorter, more motivational sermons.

Why is this that people will say Christians first treat the Bible. This way when of course it is the word of God is as it claims to be. Why is that and perhaps maybe give a a thing or two to to someone listening today who is heard these kinds of criticism from nonbelievers about saying in the Bible is just a copy written by minutes and it's not worth that is never reliable because of all we did was talk and dictate the reliability I would say I'm not politically active. What I do instead too far downstream. I did my job is to help people understand the Bible is reliable and should be taken seriously.

Those two things in unison number one. I think the Bible is reliable because we have manuscript evidence that will help us to see has a change. We even have the accounts of this we know what the wood. The witnesses allegedly saw something like John like Matthew and wrote stuff down what the question is did it change over time and we trust that it's actually what was written down what we have today and we can track that change. If there is some by simply tracking the people in the chain of custody as we call the law enforcement who handled the evidence over time and did they alter it so we know who the witnesses work like say John. We also know who the first person they gave the information to what he had three students pages Ignatius and Polycarp we know who the student of those people were Ignatius and Polycarp had a student named Aaron Nance. We know who Aaron enhances student Hippolytus we can trace it through history to see if the message the claims that the creedal kind of all Orthodox claims of Christianity about the deity of Christ about the nature of heaven. The nature of God always claims we trust. We can trace them over time to see if any of these people in the chain of custody link attached a link attached to link did any of them change the story. I had to do that to be certain that one of those criteria. We talked about how they been changing her story was not violated and sure enough it wasn't violated community. The claims you so desperately think are true. As a Christian, have been true from the very beginning they were. These were the claims of the first eyewitnesses passed down faithfully over time to where you are today. So I think that that question for me was resolved, but in the question is why don't we take this seriously well because were in a world where metanarratives don't change. If this large idea of the claims of Christianity that hasn't changed in 2000 years, or in a world where people are more obsessed with their micro narratives was what's good for them in their lives. What helps them live the way that they want to comfortably live and because technology is actually help us to amplify those micro Quiznos micro interests that we have we have moved from objective claims that we used to bend our need to to subjective opinions. We hold very dearly and we do not want to surrender those and so we we would say that even if, for example, I hold a few ICM a Christian and that he was clearly not supported by Scripture as a matter fact, Scripture argues for the opposite view. I will now find a way in a culture which my personal opinion.

It trumps anything objective all find a way to reinterpret to twist the facts to to find a way that the band that Scripture to my desires rather than bend my knee to that Scripture and I think that's part of the second part we talk about right. Number one is a reliable and should we take it seriously. So I want to do both of those things demonstrate that is reliable, but then demonstrate behavior. Take this seriously, you can't just pull one verse out and twisted to meet your needs you to take the entire Council of Scripture and then when you finally realize what it says. Be willing to bend your knee knows the two steps you have to take you think that Christians in the American church has been influenced by this focusing on the micro narratives of life in the small little issues they want for their personal peace, influenced or maybe you don't agree with that statement that Christians in America don't take the Bible as seriously as to be obeyed and followed and read and studied all they clearly don't take it. I made a number at which we dump. Hold on this over everyone hold forever so is not just you and not surprised anyone, but interestingly you you will see that the disc just about what Christians believe about the nature of God about what Christians believe that there is a large percentage of Christians who would tell you that they believe in God but not the God of the Bible your seller will be right. I mean how can that possibly be that commitment is true and and we see these kinds of of of poles out there all the time if you ask simple questions about what you say and how many Christians are in the country and years asking for people to self identify the failure on the Christian you large number is 70% is right around the high 60s. But if you ask the same number what you mean by what it mean to be a Christian. What the Scripture teach on suspect 10 basic points they missed those points. Very few who say they are Christians hold that we would say is a Christian world of you on major issues out of a political issue. I talked about doctrinal issues that are taught by Scripture solely yet. We have a group, that group is much smaller and while I think that the group who claims to be a Christian. That group is shrinking. I actually don't believe that the group who knows what Christianity is shrinking at all. That core of the church. For the most part has stayed about the same percentage for several years now so I think is happening is those people who never really quite knew what Christianity taught anyway. Those folks are now jumping out of the church in large numbers about a percent a year and their identifying is not yet have no religious affiliation to the date the last bridges affiliation they had was Christianity because he never really examined it again.

It's about is this text is all about authority whose authority are all your own or the authority of this text. So you have to help people see that yes it's reliable. You can trust it and to it matters you want to take it seriously and I think that's really we talk about this all the time. I am teaching young people. I always say you going to have to help people see to wise for everyone.

What does Christianity teach here that you live, why should I believe that what evidence do you have to support that claim that the first why the second. Why is okay fine you got a claim and you believe is true and you support with some evidence. Why should I care why the matter to me that the two wise are really the is the Bible reliable and should I take it seriously so so that's that were trying to do with people. I think you and I both would do this right will eat we speak from the country.

Work will try and offer the Watts and the two wives because young people are done with hearing are what they just are. Is the whole show. It if we can help young people with the two wise would have a hard time convincing them of the lot so it's part of our evangelism now to be able to defend what it is were talking about and explain why this matters. We are dealing with competing worldviews. There's lots of competition out there. So why does the Christian were you matter over the others. That's going to be something important you talk to younger people. When you try to explain these lies to them. Do you find that younger people let's say teens or even earlier are more impressionable by apologetics and I noticed you have a case makers Academy which is for for kids you're right about the art we delete we were younger. It was like 85% by 1885% of Christians became Christians by the age of 18 and if you didn't become a Christian.

By the age of 18 urine part at 15% like me who you know 85% chance you work at with that age is dropped from about 18 to about 12, 13 notice from some from some recent polls that I've been tracking on this issue and Josh McDowell Ivan Bultman talking about.

Why is it dropping about because you used to be the first skeptic skeptical claim you would encounter might be in your college years, but now that first skeptical claim you're going to encounter as is while you're surfing the Internet and everyone got access to phone but on their high school as a matter fact that with the number of of of of college freshmen who enter college and identify themselves as Christians has dropped the number of people who say they have no religious affiliation has tripled from 10% to 31% in the last survey till it means is, is that is not as a worsening our believing kids to University and the University is somehow pounding their faith out of them is that they really enter that university unimpressed they pay they walked away and the polls show that they were between 10 and 17 years of age. Young people make a decision about Christianity. So I think we have to start a lot earlier and it is really have to becoming all these expert world-renowned apologist to help our kids but we simply have to start giving the two wise for every what you know from the very beginning and it is not like you don't wait until what will cover Christian worldview and apologetics in their senior year.

You know I'm a Christian high school and typically we end up teaching that kind of thing in your junior or senior year really that we need to start talk about that. Probably a late elementary and that's what we have looked series 8 to 12 because we think 8 to 12 is about when young people are start and asked these questions and we need answer him early. Totally agree with you really like the Bacall University destruction. That's right, a transition to college and sometimes impairs order summary for their center and I know it's not me is never too late. God works in people's lives in many different ways but really it has to be impressed upon them from just the youngest ages and letting them discover the answers to these and helping them discover the answers to these questions, and teaching them doctrines of the faith of the have that strong worldview. Okay, we have one more segment coming up with Jay Warner Wallace as we answer some of the tough apologetic questions for the faith today so stay tuned much more coming up.

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The website is the Christian world view.or in the program were talking with Jay Warner Wallace, who is a Christian apologist, and for our listeners to Minneapolis and St. Paul.

Jim is going to be coming to this area on March 1 and second for the lakes free church fifth annual worldview apologetics conference. That's a Friday night and Saturday up in Lindstrom Minnesota which is just north of the Twin Cities. You can find out more about the conference@lakesfree.org again this March 1 and second in advance of the conference you were talking with Jim about some of the difficult apologetic questions of the faith about the existence of God.

The reliability of the Gospels. These are perennial questions that people have in Christians need to be able to answer them in a reasonable and logical way which the Bible and God's creation around us do provide.

Here's the final segment of the interview with Jay Warner Wallace okay last question for you Jim and this one is one of those metanarrative kind of big overarching questions one just gonna pull back here from talking about apologetics today.

I will just be interested to know your review.

As you look at America at this time both in our country and also our church mimicking is divided between those two. How do you view just the culture that were living in right now are there morality in our our country when we do seem incredibly divided on so many issues is a very contentious divisive environment. How do you view American.

How do you view the church right now in America who are working a lot down stream or at work have gone while wife is what all foundational stuff that gets us here and that the technology of the Internet has really I am a social media platform so you and and I've noticed that there is no middle or or discourse in the middle that's reasonable.

This reasonable middle is gone so used to be that we would say I don't agree with you on that you are wrong when out so I can argue that your evil we've pushed the boundaries to their for this extreme but but think about it was last time you had a conversation with somebody face-to-face where when you're talking to them they were able to mask what they look like a holding a mask in front of their face and change their appearance on Faye on Internet.

This is happening all the time. Facebook twitter you're talking to people who are using icons instead of their real pictures. There they they won't give you much.

We are able to hide behind social media identities and when we do that we tenants have a tendency to behave poorly because you're not having face-to-face conversation with people there is not a continuing relationship to work with you tomorrow.

Have dinner with you tonight after we do this in the more we are able to isolate our identities. In this way, the more vicious course. So I think it's it's it's part of it right.

The church still has a solution. And here's the solution it's this it's it's it's a tough one and I I'm I travel a lot so I'll after really work at this and that is this that there is no pursuit of God that is not done in community and we have a tendency to want to step out. It went well, I'm on the Internet. I watched church on the Internet part of a chat room or a part of a group on Facebook that were all okay I get it there some community there. But what I'm talking about is the physical in the presence face-to-face community living life together in the context of the church that I'm in church every single weekend infusion online rise, where I have my own church on Sunday. Also church so I struggle with this.

I really do this we can, for example, I'm in Little Rock Arkansas and I got a great church but is not my church and and we have to remember that that there's a reason the church is messed up as it is and you might whatever church you're in a merger experience you had it you can plug. I get it, but you have to love church it to do this well and you have to put down your own selfishness in order to love church. I can remember I've been in huge mega churches all the way down the house charging. There is no perfect church and every church is perfect so you have to remember that that to do this well the church offers a solution is to resist this Internet platform view of discourse and return to a family model in which we hash out our problems together and come to see you again next week and you know where I live, you know, the car that I drive you know where to find me it's in the context of those kinds of relationships that we find that we we explore Christ together and I think what we have to do is resist the impulse I met you will never see me in public dialogue with skeptics online. I don't do that because it is not the kind of relationship that I can build from when I don't know what this guy looks like the scale looks like I got some false identity online. So I think we have to toot to see that there's something ancient about community that has even more value in the future. We as communities are being shaped by Internet station ships. I think we have to return to the past. That was one of the four tenants of the early church talks about next to that there was teaching the apostles doctrine and fellowship was just what you are talking about that community and the breaking of bread or communion in prayer those of the four foundations and I'm glad you brought out that one today, and Jim. We thank you for coming on the Christian world view were looking forward to seeing you here in our home state of Minnesota coming up. Be ready. Bring your bring your winter clothes. We have a lot of snow on the ground here. Record-breaking snow in February and the states were looking for the having you come here were appreciative of all you do to bring out the evidence for the faith. And so we just wish all of God's best in grace, you, Jim didn't appreciate being on your short and important failure culture will we hope you enjoyed the interview with Jay Warner Wallace today and hope that your biblical worldview was sharpened by some of the answers that he gave to the tough questions that people regularly ask about God and Christianity. Again, Jim will be speaking north of Minneapolis and St. Paul in Leinster Minnesota at the lakes for the worldview apologetics conference at Lake Street church in Leinster, Minnesota. You can find out more@lakesfore.org. If you missed any of the interview today. You can always hear it by going to our website. The Christian were viewed.org and just a final thought on apologetics. Christian should be as sharp as we can to be able to defend the tough questions of the faith in the good news is that God gives us the answers to be able to do that the Christian world view is the most defendable of all worldviews is not blind faith that we have. It's actually I think a small step of faith to believe what God has already revealed. But even more important than apologetics when talking to a nonbeliever is being able to communicate the gospel that God sent his son, who lived a sinless life, and then died a sacrificial substitutionary death for us on the cross so that all who would repent and believe in him would be forgiven by God and receive eternal life with him in heaven. That truly is the good news the gospel is what saves and yet good answers to apologetic questions can lead someone to not having to take such a big leap of faith, at least in their own mind, be strong apologetically and be good communicators of the gospel. Thanks again for listening today.

You know, we do live in a changing and challenging world.

There is one thing we can always trust in encounter on Jesus Christ and his word are the same yesterday today and forever. Have a great weekend everyone. We hope today's broadcast turned your heart toward God's word is to order a CD copy of today's program or sign up for our free weekly email or to find out how you can be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ go to our website the Christian world view.org, call us toll-free one Tripoli 646-2233.

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