Golf Stories, PGA Tour, and more with Rick Reilly

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This is the gold shell proud to be joined by Rick Riley in studio very much town you got the Quail Ridge book signing tonight, but you should say a word to the bookstore screwed up.

I put your address in our support their address and to come to your right thumb walk around the book thrown at city dam radios is so thank you for letting me be let you know. It's all right. We have but if if nothing were weak and we are flexible. The book is called so help me golf and I am I I am a fan of literature about sports and there's a saying that the smaller the ball the better the book. Why is that true is it true, and either you write a lot of books about golf.

So I bye-bye assuming you think it is true, why is it true I don't know why it's true, but it used to be boxing horse racing. My golf was where the Damon Runyon's in that island rice and then maybe baseball the didn't care about basketball football is truly mortal really think you go take a look at some of my favorite but like like the stuff that I read of yours Maya. I've got friends to all other also write books so I think often consult a really good writing because it's just sitting there right is like somebody missed the block or the guy was a thrown unhittable curves or anything like like last night. The Celtics just got freaking hot and the right. It wasn't Rick Leach probably warriors choked showed something ridiculous 80% of the final quarter but golf it's just sitting there. It's just you. There's a story in this book.

It's this is 40 years of me saving up stories that have all ran to write and for some reason I can write a 1977 there was a guy and Ricky Meisner and he was a rabid qualifier right and deeply try to qualified Monday if he didn't, you have to go to the next town.

He ran out of money. Pretty soon he's camping and just try to get bodies got a wife and two kids back home. Finally he can't stand it anymore. But he doesn't want to give up on his golf dreams right because that's really given up on yourself is just a one-man sport starts robbing banks just at this decides that's in the town after he misses the cut so Pensacola to Rachel. Oh whatever Chicago because he gets so mad but he doesn't want to give up on his golf dreams so he put on a wig put on a fake mustache. I like Bobby Valentine and said that he put fake license plate on scar piece of crap car. He robbed a bank and that's how we kept playing on tour that year and he always told himself if I ever unify ever make a nice check. I'll stop this because he yeah fake gun would show the teller don't cry. It's a fake gun is no bullets in it and he will make about $2000 every banks to violate the Tallahassee open 1977 qualifies leads the first day she is 66 Tallahassee he's ahead of Nicholas the player you be greetings ahead of them all in the press like where view bed is a good quote like just been working on my game and your and your ransom and your bigger teller notes the next day shot 78. The next day 80 and the next day. 78. Again, finished last among the cuts write qualifiers got so bad robbed a bank that next day but didn't do the disguise gets caught. Okay so did Rob. 19 banks that you want to work, went to jail for I think 25 to 30 years.

But if you look it up.

Adam did lead the tour and the money story were very plain for that. Let me golf just gets, just get so addicted like you can't give it up.

I'm I didn't see his name in this.

Some of the stuff that I read about the book, but I saw a golfer working on his third heart right. I am assuming that it's a guy we talked to two days ago Eric Compton was actually playing here in in Raleigh right now. The Rex Hospital open the Korn ferry towards event, is this week at Wakefield country club in North Raleigh and Compton is in the field.

I talked to them on Tuesday. We explained what happened. He was a short good kid athlete 12 years old.

They said your hearts given out.

He had have a new heart or he was going to die. Got the heart of a young girl playing with that heart really well made. The tour that 28 that heart gave out and he got the heart and the thing is, almost nobody survives to that third heart right but he did get the heart of a kid named Isaac Mota got.killed a motorcycle accident, age 17 and almost won the U.S. Open at Pine are right here right street and and play great. Imagine that guy with his third are almost won a national championship so anyway. Fast forward to the Muirfield tournament this week.

Ms. years ago but 10 years ago and is having dinner and the waitress goes all your the guy with the transplant heart. He was yeah she says I know something about that because my nephew Isaac died in a motorcycle wreck and gave up his heart wow and he's like oh my God you can't speaking starts to cry and he says your nephew's heart is inside me as she starts to cry and they don't know what to do.

She runs in the kitchen cries comes back out and she says can I feel him all man so they hug. She can feel her nephew's heart inside him and so the chapters about that and then the two mothers meeting right and so I believe in karma, believe in Buddhism right so at that moment the two mothers meet and once horrible grief and losing her son is but also is the joy that the southern mother has her son still alive and that's how we all are. It's all it's all mixed up. It's all one fabric in her joy, grief, sadness, joint tears of joy and they hug and they become great friends, and Eric Compton is still doing great.

Last year he was in the top 10 for a while at colonial and is just a great guy that just won't give up yet like I begin the conversation spend a lot of time with his daughter. Her daughter, his daughter plays right and look he's 42 years old. He says he's sort of late in this heart and others that there's a there's a lifespan it's been 14 years all his heart. The last heart lasted 16 what what did he say that he he he didn't expand on where it might go doesn't like but yeah I'm sure. I'm sure he doesn't. But we know we talked about no plan is obviously okay financially. Even though Splenda conferred tour will get the finances golf in another subject in a minute but look he's just a great story Craig. He's just a great story it. We must get to it because as much as I hate the Saudi league alive. He lived, and I would never take a blood money. This is this is a nation of regime that kills gay people kills American American journalist is is a terrible record on human rights but I never do it. But Eric Compton right you can go over there and he's is a great story and they can pick who they want 48 guys.

Nobody gets caught, I think. I think the last place money is something stupid hundred 20 grand. So if I'm Eric Compton, is that you ask. I asked him about it.

I didn't ask him if he would do it I just asked him about it sounded to me like his answer was it said it's and it's an opportunity to play and I think that especially the sport of golf.

I think there's enough guys. This is why I believe it has staying power. I think there's enough people who can turn their head away from where the money what the source of the money is and because the amount is so astronomical. I think it has staying power. Of course it does its stupid money, these guys are good giving away because they don't have to show a profit they can get Dustin Johnson $150 million. To be honest I don't even know if Dustin Johnson knows were Saudi Arabia is what it is what I wrote because he is one of the nicest people you meet and what of the dumb dumb I wrote Dustin Johnson is so dense light bends around asked his agent later that making manuals and even understand hundred 50 million for him to just give away crazy money. You can't be cut. God knows what else they got mine so this is the thing. The tour is been dreading yes right it's always been out there who is going to come up with a better tour with a giveaway crazy money and draw people like because there's no losses you have to play the PGA Tour. No and so I would hate to see. I would hate to see Phil do it on the big field guy. I'm not a tiger guy love Tigers game don't love the man right. Love is manners filled greatest tipper ever.

Best kind fans of ever seen since stupid crap all the time. Yeah. So he said stupid crap thinking he was off the record in this book he wasn't. So he says it now is ruin his legacy and yet he doesn't put himself on the list for this first Saudi Arabia is one prize that he's on it, but there's one place left six actually, there are six spots left unless they filled the other five of the others. There was 42 players that they announced this thing came out that one was a very high profile slots what I'm talking about that spot very high profile so I hope he doesn't do this don't do it because it's blood money. I can't tell you how disappointed I would be in Phil if he supported that government by doing what here's the thing fills been based on what I understand fills actually been instrumental in writing the rules of the total. Yeah I know but he must've seen. Now the weather balloon that went up. People hate this idea.

I hated the way you want to go why what is up 36 hours to get to Riyadh. No, before all this happened he was making $40 million a year in endorsement he was voted number two in the PIP thing right he had. He was the PGA of 51 almost so do you really want to do all that and leave your kids and leave a negative take them to Saudi Arabia so I hope it fails, but I'm afraid it's going to be a real problem for the PGA Tour, and as we talked about before he came on all it's all up to the Masters. I think it is. If the master says you play that you're out your band for 10 years. Whatever. They say that because people realizes you can still play the majors. Sure, although now the PGA Tour said no you can't play ours but U.S. Open open championship will see how that goes in the Masters. They haven't said you're out so the question is what those other people do them people to run the majors Ryder Cup you know if you can't play that they're knocking to go because these guys play the Ryder Cup for free. Yes, they would play the Masters for free so your legacy means something that meant, but maybe it doesn't. Maybe DJs legacy is already written. He is a bit I think is about 47 so he's sort of coming to the part where maybe it goes the other way. DJ hasn't been as good since he won the Masters in 2020. In November, but he could to. He's just one major 4146 Tiger for Tiger and Aaron fell at 50 I Julius Boros was winning at 56 don't do this. I'm not sure he realizes what he's doing.

It's very very possible. Rick Rick Riley is the thing the PGA Tour's response vacant band but I don't know that banning is their move simply rescinding membership is probably their move may be a suspension for a period of time. A short suspension even and then simply rescinding membership and everything that comes with that pension benefits FedEx cup right everything changed when Dustin signed up because it was just Brooks kept his brothers and Adam Jones right and it is that you're all bent. That would've been scary for the bigger and so I want to do that. But now, when Dustin Johnson goes to they really want to lose Dustin Johnson and if Phil or whoever that big name is goes, do they really want to lose those guys so yeah I think you're right thing is with a be sued now. If I'm in the NFL and you're an NFL player, and you say yeah I'm in play for you guys. Most of the play in the Canadian league you know or him to play in the USFL. You can could you legally go no, that's our competitor. You can't work at Burger King and also work at McDonald's so so people sell they lose that lawsuit. I think they win it, but what one the players that I've spoken with believe that it will hold up that they will be able to enforce that book. There are rules, they have allowed in the past they have allowed players to play on other tours that have a competing event with the US. US is one event right they have a look, but they have a lot they did. They denied the waiver. I thought they would allow the waiver for the first one I really did, but it was apparent that the Jay Monahan is drawn line in the sand just I'm waiting to hear their response. Their response will not come. I guess until I think you shots. I think you're scared how to fight monopoly money is just crazy stupid money.

Take do you think like I argued when this issue first came up Rick Riley's in studio with us.

The book is going to help me golf, which we actually talk a little bit about a Mexican imprint of the when this first happened I thought after PGA Tour just allowed appearance fees, which they don't allow they've allowed on the European tour for years, but if the PGA Tour just allowed appearance fee so you want Phil Mickelson in your event and are willing to pay them $3 million to do it. Then he'd show up to your event. What exactly is a great point and it doesn't come out of PGA Tour's pocket right so if if BMW which is has a tournament says okay him because these guys used to go over there and get $3 million Tiger with claimant two events a year in Europe for that. I never went to Joe Joe Montana and Herschel Walker got invited to what was the Sultan of Brunei right okay come on over and I will give you up. One of the time it was $1 million that was crazy money in the 80s so two of our best athletes at their peak. Joe Montana Herschel Walker. Maybe this is 88. They fly over the Sultan has uniforms and helmets for them. What your to play well Herschel your plan.

The guards team. Joe, you're in a play on the Sultan's team and there like, no, no. Somehow Joe got out of it but Herschel had to play. It's crazy. There's no footage of that. Is there really good though.

They describe is you just walk down the street there be a store with already Ferraris your next door was all diamonds and all this looks like a closet.

There is so much money over their pages you know I'm I'm signing back to the books quail Quail Ridge Quail Ridge at the North Hills right as I say to not be my book signing.

King David said Eric was what's your favorite other than anything you've written. What is your favorite sports book ball for Jim. That was my answer was that that was absolutely my hand on a bed of red that 11 times he wrote a sequel to yeah what was it eroded extra chapter right yet might be just a minute but taught me and I was probably 10 years old like oh there's a lot more going on than just score and that's when I realized I would be good to write these stories because that's I never really cared about the score right always cared about the stories which is kinda this book doesn't have many scores in like there's a chapter about Lucas Glover. You know you on the guy hasn't parted from inside 3 feet with his eyes open in five years really and I didn't know they get enough because he's really read two books of day a week and everything so he supposed he had.

He got the up so bad that every time he impacted the pot.

The ball is short but you flinch, you go if you Google horrible golf but a Lucas Glover 18 inch heels and hit the hole right that comes to do that. But now he just puts police pots with his eyes closed Rick Riley's video.

In this essay have Greg Norman stories and I wanted to get to this part of the live series because this is the part where I get it Greg Norman to me has a justifiable vendetta against the PGA tour the world championships. They were his idea. Tim Fincham told Greg to pound sand, and then started the world golf championships so I get Greg Norman's been carrying this around for about 30 as will the horrible things that happen to them in America and Larry my chips in Bob's way chips in the PGA. Notably, Gary flies one and the whole David Frost.

All those guys so he's he's always kind of felt. He's always felt felt this way hexed about anything but Betsy. He's done so badly. At this he gives a quote like what you think of that when the Saudis murdered Dick Khashoggi, the Boston Post journalist. He goes that's probably a mistake you think so Chardon budgetary quick short story because in the 80s and early 90s.

He was the coolest guy on the question like he he give me rides in his helicopter he would we was inspecting the show by submarine to return just so cool those blue eyes of the hair-like like someone was holding a blowback fan is here all the time.

He was just too cool.

So were doing the story and it was again this week in Fairfield and were out at night. It's like a Wednesday night. It's raining tooth 2 Lane Rd. and I was asking about you like to hang out with racecar drivers is like oh what's this might work it will gotta be doing 100 yeah Trans Am with 600 hp. Nobody on the road but it's rainy and slick you watch this might throws it neutral hits emergency brake whips the wheel. We don't do a perfect 180 I saw trees, telephone poles go by my life. For instance, Henry took off the perfect perfect 180 not in the article don't put in the article and I didn't this.

This is a bright.

Quick story.

I have a quick Greg Norman story. This is the first time I ever encountered him. I went to the University of Maryland. This is absolute true story and in the summer I stay down there after my sophomore year and hanging out with a friend of mine lives in Rockville and he goes hey, next week the Kemper open is here. Do you want to work in the hospitality so I worked as a volunteer and I got my money and paid on remember CBS hospitality right so we we worked until like 4 o'clock every day of the tournament. Just serving the CBS employees and their hospitality area.

Then after that we were free to do what we want. So in 1986 Greg Norman one in a six hole playoff with Larry Mize so we were done at 4 o'clock and then we got a chance to go out. We had passes to walk the course and I walked with Norman and Mize in the six hole playoff and then after the tournament was over. Norman one of the playoff. During the inside the clubhouse at Congressional country club and because I would had clubhouse access. I was inside the clubhouse and Norman bought everybody champagne. While I believe there had to be 100 people in the clubhouse to pay Tony Lehman exactly so that was my first experience with Norman.

I became a huge Norman fan always was just what really disappoints me about this is that Norman was Tiger before Tiger was Tiger he was. He was on the law far long long no cut streak, but he was only was he was the attraction and member and think it was the 2008 open championship the public. Harrington ultimately won Norman's playing in the final grade. But we all knew it was going to happen because Greg had final-round issues like he always had his career should won the Masters's and 86 2008 is when he is married to Chris Everett right okay right so and out on hosting the show. I don't cares about Greg, like you don't get like seek Tiger today. That's what Norman was.

Norman was in the 90s that was Greg Norman will never forget being in the Guster clubhouse Saturday night 1996. He's got a six shot is just me and him and I'm interviewing them shoot the breeze and a guy named Peter no-brainer this big dandruff British writer with nose hair and all his stuff is just such a jerk and he comes and says shock even you can't screw this up. You were there when that was set I was sitting right there and short just like his eyes get big and kinda turns pale; I can't believe he just jinxed it because we were sitting there thinking this would be her last night in the regular right locker room to be up the champions room. We just kidding about Andrew Brenner said that in the it just went to hell.

The next day and I think a lot of this was chart always thought bad things would happen to you, and out of kinda help. Also short is so confident he's like a thousand percent hitting five iron under this may just no one can talk about of anything like his caddie never got a veto and so things go wrong and they go wrong. Fast. Then as we as I talked to him afterwards. Today was the day the Titanic's it still one of the most stunning things never seem to end. Faldo had to make a pot on Saturday to get into the final group that was the worst. The worst thing that could happen to Greg strange story like as were talking on the parking lot after he's blown it in front of the world just gets flayed open like Prometheus on the rocks right, I submit, how you how you deal with this.

This is crazy. I know I blew it, but that hug Faldo gave me was the greatest hug ever gotten from a guide my life and like explain is my dad never hugged me and have any uncles that hug me and he never said he loved me and that was the first time you guys really hug me like it meant. And that's weird for Faldo to show real pathos write what he did, he did Norman really appreciate it. Which is a very weird thing to be thinking afterwards. But that's how he felt. I always felt that he handled handled it like a gentleman, Lee handled the loss like a general talk to the press. But I yeah absolutely and and he didn't didn't hide from it. He knew we we knew we had blown it.

But I always wondered if he had been more angry even openly angry with himself that if he might've gotten like if she was still good enough to win weathers and there's an old saying in a golf tour. You gotta be your own best friend. So it's never your fault like a matter first started.

Jack was out there and he fly the green right then he fixable Margaret by the pit like damn greens are holding is never Jack's fault got so short was might've been Faldo said and I'm want to visit listen to as a commentator that never blame yourself. It was always a good read.

Get it it it hit something on the way. Never blame will deftly 70. Like we used to follow 70 could go through caddies like Taylor's right closer boyfriends you never knew what he was last he was still fun to follow what time he completely hits of terrible shot and starts blame of the caddie is yellow.

That is, I don't blame you for this terrible did this terrible mistake. The stupid mistake. I blame myself for hiring you as one of his brothers. I got when we absolutely miss Evian tour the crowd before let you go because I know you you you write about so many different things in this book you've got a chapter on Jim Nance.

Yes is best anchor in golf history, you know, the chapter starts out I am sick of being happy for Jim. He's such a nice guy right.

He remembers everybody got a photographic member somebody's name. He's got the best job Masters final for NFL Super Bowl when Bush had a steak dinner when Bush 43 was present at the queen coming was all nervous got Nance to come, so he talked so he could talk is Jimmy you keep keep the conversation going to the Queen this is Jim Nance he's our he's our best announcer. He just did the final four and the Guster. The Agusta is the best I mean I'm friends with Al Michaels is a story that I made a hold one without Michael figure. Good for you to hit the shot and starts rolling backwards to the pin is in LA and Al Michaels launches into that incredible play-by-play mode, which might've been the best play-by-play videos hold on, folks were not done yet.

This could be it might be.

That is all I was just like this. As I wished I had a tape I can remember to this day. So is Nance the best.

Gotta be in the photo right top three. Me I just don't know anybody who as an anchor for golf who is better because he he gets the game because he played the game competitively. He just gets every game is so good. It is just so precise but you know he is a friend of my but I did get invited to his wedding because it was that the seventh hole at Pebble Beach. They stopped playing for Jim Nance to get married, a series yeah and on the tee box.

If he is the world's great bows. Now three please get married because Ulrich is so great he should of been there, Michael. I would like to, but it is like the Jews a whole flock of seagulls came up from the crashing waves behind the and people thought we we train the seagulls and I like to shut up.

I'm sick of being happy for you what Outlook he has a replica of the seventh hole in his backyard. I short replica that's seen video of people going to go to Miami and Tom Brady snuck off well. That that whole 20 the Omaha production stuff that they did was great with a strength show up at the at the gate you speak of great announcer Peyton Manning. If you choose to do it would be the last color commentator on any sport of all time. He'll he'll do so much homework.

Unlike Eli really just be so good he can do anything. I've been the events were he's on the MC and he's got questions for me. He's got a whole notebook he would be so good. Pray that he becomes our color is for from with Nancy be better than Rome would be better than anybody's that good he is. He is excellent. Tom Brady's going to make more money doing Fox NFL games and he made his ever in a job where you don't have to have ever done it. And yet you get to do it as soon as you're ready in no thing I can think of as US president know politics never even dogcatcher here you go is commander-in-chief one of your favorite books. Oh yeah I wrote this book about how much trouble she'd signal it was just post to be an article, but he was telling people on the winter.

I want 18 club championships against the best players alike plate with you buddy told me how you do it whenever you guys a new golf course right the first round is the club championship which he plays by himself so is another rule that he's got cities, got 18 clubs around the world. If you're the club champion and you quit the club. Your name comes off in his goes on. Yeah, you said it before, it was good to be the king BK Rick Riley tonight. So help me. Golf is the book Quail Ridge books in North Hills 4209 Lassiter Mill Rd. I donate I found you hard when you scouted out. Thank you very much. Is there anything else you want it what you want before you leave.

I'm just glad you could have me in studio is pretty cool.

This is very cool.

I think cooler for me than for you serious thank you very much Rick Riley as we wrap up the first week post Carolina hurricanes season.

I have a couple thoughts on what type of a team. This is, and what might be missing.

I have some thoughts on that. But let's start. Let's just listen to a little bit of what Rod Brind'Amour and Don Waddell had to say yesterday and then we scan sort of pieced together the rest of it will start with Don Waddell who is the president and general manager of the team now you should know this.

The hurricanes in terms of organizational decisions there really run by Tom.Tom and Eric Polsky who was there analytics guy easy assistant general manager.

They basically make most if not all of the decisions that Don Waddell is part of it, but it really does come from the ownership along with Eric Kolsky on and for the most part, they've done a really good job out you know of building the rosters out over the last several years. They really have. I am not in any way criticizing the decisions that they have made. This has really worked out very well make the playoffs in year one it was. Not a furious rally but his second-half surge where they were like 28 points over NHL 500 I believe the last 45 games then the year that got halted because of the pandemic that ended in the bubble in Toronto. They weren't quite as good but I believe they were like six in the East. At the time of the shutdown and they were just starting to hit their stride.

Justin Williams was coming back then. Last year they win the central division that had Tampa in Florida in it and be sure of course they win the Metro, the division that nobody thought they'd ever win when these divisions were devised about eight years ago everybody looked at that division of analytic you've got Pittsburgh you got what you got you got the range you got the devil that was a pretty good back right and none of us could say you're wrong because hurricanes were admired and for five year stretch of being bad so I got it I understood you were probably right there one that division this year. Rangers might win a Stanley Cup. I actually think the range is good. What a Stanley Cup meeting their great teams and vision. Just no getting around in the East is going to have be difficult to make a plan to be hard to make the playoffs next year. I think Carolina will be a Carolina score is outstanding, but I it's good to be hard to make playoffs not to be in hurricanes good to be a wildcard team very very easily next year really be good.

You know, who knows how good Washington orf Pittsburgh are to be either windows are closing fast. Yet you know Pittsburgh still has Crosby side roster. They cancel and Tristan Shari healthy is good.

It all depends what happens with some of their other pieces right but they still have Crosby so and they are brilliantly coached by Mikesell. So there can be good, Washington I think is definitely the team that is on the way down, but they also still have Alexander Lubetkin and Nicholas Backstrom and TJ Koshy and hugs are really good players that goaltending issues to work out in defense of issues to work out but again they got a basket we could probably just end the conversation there, but the hurricanes would be good for lot anyway.

Now that got decisions to make and what Carolina needs are some more young players because young players don't make a lot of money they need young players to start dotting the lineup. And here's Don Waddell on that young kids you know you want the one that was here that we all got small taste of juries been exceptional continues to do everything that is asked of them more.

So, no we think we got new, probably six or seven no real good prospect on there including Peter who will head back down there, place games, he was talking about the other to check off the goalie who still probably will not be part of this team next year.

He needs a full year in the AHL, and Caroline is pretty much set with goaltending with Frederick Anderson and auntie Rhonda. But it's good to know that you have somebody that you can rely on to be another goalie and I they have another goalie prospect in a two back in the end he was having a great year until he got hurt Mr. rest of the season subject jury will be part of this team. They probably need one or two more young players to make the team.

Is it Jamison Reese. I don't know but Reese is a God that they like is Jaelyn Chatfield going to be part of the hurricanes on defense. I see Jaelyn is bottom pair guy, but if he makes the team. There's another minimum salary and if you go to pay guys a lot of money then you need some minimum salary guys so that's potentially Jaelyn Chatfield.

That's potentially subject juries going to make the team but you probably need three or maybe four of those players. Obviously Seth Jarvis has one more has two more years left on his entry-level deal which will pay him about 900,000 so Seth Jarvis is a top line forward real quick. As to what they need.

Well let's start let's do this first because Martin natures fits in here somewhere.

Here's Rod Brind'Amour, the head coach on Martin natures always expected pressure for so that's get in there. I just get so so there's better. So using such a town government about how when you expect where he plays a tough position of trust, place or position so as an option, but he knows I think East communicated that he's get that part of his game will see were real quick about center.

I told the story before Rod Brind'Amour never believed that Sebastian was a sinner in the NHL never believed it is a matter fact remember the time where Carolina cranked it up in the 1819 season the day that they started that come back. Sebastian almost started on left wing in that game Jordan stall sustained a concussion.

Yeah Sebastian home moved back to center. Aside from a game here or there and including one this season Idaho has been at center. Ever since Martin natures does have to earn that back. He has to prove to the head coach that he can be a center and he proves that by doing the other things I don't designate this early disagree with natures.

He was a natural center has to operate better in the middle of the ice and that's where I think you see natures biggest his biggest weakness is. This could be a very very interesting off-season for the hurricanes and but I think they're close to being as good as anybody else in the league. This is the gold shell