Interview with Rebecca McLaughlin

Celebrate hundred and 50 baptisms of the last two weeks alone 100 more than 100 professions of faith and in 134 since the first three months of the year just online to those you join us at our online communities are there in your home with all of you two different summit campuses around the triangle and as I mentioned to you join us at home. Or maybe you're you're by yourself somewhere here in your car or wherever we are grateful to be able to gather even a still under somewhat a little bit of restriction we are grateful that we can still come together as one church at Summit church.

I want you to open your Bibles to the book of John, the book of John.

That's right in thinking it was a John John chapter 1 John one. Last weekend we started a series on Daniel called shining in Babylon and it's not all it's about not only surviving but also thriving in shining in the midst of a very hostile world that is going to be our main regularly scheduled programming for the next few weeks, so to speak, but I wanted to sprinkle in this weekend a little bonus track from John one because it's so well illustrates what we learn the first week from Daniel so if last weekend was the lesson this weekend is going to be the application of the main lesson from day one to remember.

I hope it was really simple. Very simply, this you can't make a difference unless you are different. To make a difference unless you're different.

We talk about the difference between being odd and different I were not talking about being odd.

There are plenty of Christian weirdos in the world. I explained to many, and we do not need anymore. That's not what were doing were talking about living in such a way that shows that you are marching to a different beat from everybody around you that you are living by a different set of values.

The illustration I used about us and suppose you were watching a marching band and Europe in the stands and your noticing that everybody in several hundred people there on the field are all trained on one man one woman in the middle is a conductor that's that's keeping everybody together but then through your binoculars. You see one guy who's obviously got in his air pods and he's not looking at the conductor and and evidently he's dialed into some radio station.

He's listening to chance the wrapper he's going to look totally out of sync like chaos, it's actually not chaos. He's very tuned into something he's just not listening to the same are not watching the same conductor everybody else's will in the it in a very similar way. That's what you and I are work dialed into a different frequency.

Daniel and his friends are called to serve the living and true. The only God in the midst of Babylon, which is a hostile culture that meant I had to take on Babylonian names and where Babylonian closing Babylonian hairstyles and and speak the Babylonian language and serve the Babylonian palace but they live differently in those places than everybody else around them, and because of that, they made a real difference. They lived out the principles of the kingdom of God appointed Babylonians to the true King. Well, like Daniel, I explained, God is called most of you to live and work in Babylon that I work in the church. Most of you don't you work in battle lines and so just like in Daniel's time.

You can find the powers of of our culture often arrayed against you.

We are supposed to be for our culture, a boat, a thermometer and a thermostat.

What is a thermometer to thermometer reflects the environment around it registers what is true about the environment but what does a thermostat do what thermostat changes the temperature Christians are called to be both. They are thermometers that reflect their cultures in the right way but there also thermostats that change their cultures. Many Christians do one or the other. Well say very few do both well.

God is called us to be both. However, in the greatest example of that of course is not Daniel and his friends. It's Jesus.

Jesus entered our world. He took on human form, he lived according to a different set of values, though, as he dwelt in human flesh.

She marched to a completely different beat, so to speak. Here's the apostle John described in John 114 and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten son of the father full of peers or two words want you to focus on grace and truth. Grace and truth only flip them around truth and grace. Truth never has there been anyone who so exemplified God's truth in purity and perfection.

Jesus said, for example, that sooner would heaven and earth pass away that he would compromise one jot or tittle of God's moral code or his holy Word.

But grace also not just truth.

We also know that never has there been anybody who, at the same time so effectively gathered the outcasts, the broken, the nonreligious to his side, be they prostitutes or are thieves, the broker to be outcast. He was the friend of sinners and everybody wanted to be around him, truth and grace. Both are necessary for Christian witness truth without grace is fundamentalism. It's mean it's argumentative essay that many of you have experienced that in the church and maybe maybe that's why you have a difficult time coming back truth about grace is no good grace without truth is not any good either. That sentimentality that's that's meaningless. It enables others in their salmon and that's where a lot of other people in the church are are are today I'm in the name of niceness. They don't tell people what God says.

Which honestly is most unloving thing that you can ever do for somebody to need the truth about grace for grace about truth is loving, neither are like Jesus and neither reflect Jesus kingdom and that brings us to this weekend Z because maybe nobody that I know personally right now demonstrates that balance of grace and truth better than our guest today. She's become one of my favorite authors, Rebecca McLaughlin.

She wrote a book called confronting Christianity the 12 hardest questions for the world's biggest religion that is this one. How we offered it last weekend, almost completely bought us out there may be of use mattered copies here and there but for the most part it's out. You still check them as a team version of the book just came out all 10 questions every kid should ask and answer about Christianity.

I will tell you everything you have read thoroughly. This welcome review this one both of them are amazing and maybe the best treatments of hard questions about Christianity imprint today. There will research their easy to read their beautiful beautifully and emotionally moving and how the written, she writes about things like the supposed conflict between Christianity and science Christianity in the LGBT community on politics, immigration, all kinds of things about the way I want to say here. There are a few things that you could do better with your summer than the dive into one of these higher whole staff read and discuss the red one, one for adults, parents, years now. I will tell you I have paid my kids shamelessly paid my kids to read books like this over the summer. I still miss one other summer jobs that would be a great book one for for kids and teens will be a great book for that Bob, the best $10 investment that you can make the life of your child the summer them again or authored by Rebecca McLaughlin. She holds a PhD in Renaissance literature from Cambridge University in England like what many of us do now fair warning. She gets into some difficult subjects even today. In her interview immigration, same-sex attraction to political facility to say I implore you to listen fully and not take clips out of context or listen to those people who were going to take some risk of the context and them over the Internet, I want you not assume she means something description brings up the subject.

By the way parents if you're sitting there thinking, well, I'm not sure that my my nine-year-old is ready to hear about these things take now might be a great time to check out our amazing kids ministry every campus. If you take them out right now somebody will meet you in the lobby and help you get where you need to go okay our conversation this morning begins with me asking her about a metaphor that she uses throughout the book from the popular kids series Harry Potter so I invite you to sit back and take a listen to this fascinating conversation you donated the series and the half blood Prince as it sounds so much better when you say Harry Potter with that deep southern Alabama. That's right you reading the books to you, my 10-year-old and eight-year-old right now we just in between the set up for the story and that the reversals that's kind of an excitement for me and Hank was in the hump of prints you have Dumbledore he's always been that the hearing of the series is kind of like the Gandalf of the hype of the series. Is there any man he's confident can really match notable the most evil and big six. He's standing atop the astronomy tallies weekend already. He's surrounded by his enemies and he appeals to Harry's teaching nemesis Everest think the help to Severus. Please and snake kills him completely devastating manikins but we've never really liked Prof. Snape the waist high be unpaid that he was actually double side and now his betrayal of his mentor is complete. If anything in the lungs. Think of the series that we see how wrong we were when Harry dies into that dependency of that the magical ball vacancy into other people's memories and that we discover that everything that Snape is done has been driven by his passionate hate this unrequited love. Harry's mother wheezed we see snakes anguish when many punches knighted by the ultimately see how vengeful can it some stuff the Dumbledore we hear Dumbledore telling Snape that he is dying from the sleigh workings of an irrepressible cuss. She makes me promise to kill him and amendment continents and suddenly the meaning of Severus.

Please as her vest countrymen when I went on a non-Christian friends gone. Savor the Christian faith. They see a lot of things that look like snake canning.

Dumbledore ACL a white centered religion with a history of racism in Scripture is the condign slavery. They see an anti-intellectual mindset and contradictory Bible that's been disproved by science again and again they see homophobia and the denigration of women and refuses to acknowledge that love is love. I think justice is when we understand more of snake story we find that it's not a story of hate that history of love. I think only like milk place at each of these seemingly kind of devastating write books to faith in Jesus – to become a signpost to Christ.

As you probably had major statements that misperceptions about right misperceptions, but the ones that are non-Christian friends have some valid reasons for concluding that about Christians thinking when when matching. If we can help them to look more closely and find that things which they still reasons to not be followers of Jesus actually become reasons to be fun.

It was a Jesus lost what little it looks smalltime there now had slight bending the faith in our generation that changed because I thought when I was in high school and college just three or four years ago. It was all about it like proving the resurrection, proving that the Bible contradictions. What really contradictions. How is it changed our culture now where is that caterer a couple decades ago. Chris is also not find those in conversations feeling like they were being judges sit in done for believing Christianity or deleted.

Maybe this is Richard Okun's greatest fans, but I'm coming out of my country, the God delusion. I think today Christians more often feel like that seen as a moral and a non-Christian friends and cities they were around in the questions being Macy around is is Christianity trilogy did Jesus really write some data. Can I take the Bible seriously hasn't science this brief Christian setting is residual still that importance that she that the front fit of conversations is often more. Well, what about the history of racism.

What about how Christians treat LGBT people and what about your Christian views on sexual ethics, which today I seen is not only misguided but actually harmful and morally dangerous setting.

That's when the conversations more often when we as Christians need to have a more compelling apologizing things I thought we hear a lot is that Christianity is a white man's religion and basically it's attempting to colonize or it's trying to just reinforce cultural norms everywhere. How do you respond to that two major problems with the statement Christian is a white man's religion and one is that Christian is that you always the majority female from the right fast to the present day.

The other is that Chris Chancey has always been from from the Scriptures on weds, a multiracial and multiethnic, multicultural movement, we see that in in Jesus and life, we see that when he commissions his disciples to make disciples of all nations we meet that the fast black Christian in the book of acts, the Ethiopian eunuch of acts chapter 8 we see in and that the revelation that people from every tribe and tongue and nation rushing Jesus together does get cool Christian ethic is his love across racial and ethnic and cultural difference and we see that played on the global checks today. People often associate Christianity with white West, and especially today that patient is not any of the largest, but also the makes diverse belief system in the weld way that essentially even spread to people from Europe to North America, South America and Africa and with the church in China growing so fast right now while it's counting the global center of atheism expressing that by 2015. They'll be more Christians in China than in America, and some experts even think that by 2060. China could be a majority Christian country was made by 2060 people expected about 40% of the mouse. Christians will be living in sub-Saharan Africa.

Setting global level.

It's indefensible say Chris and his white man's religion from the Scriptures is indefensible that she looked America as well. We find that black people in America almost 10 percentage points melodic identifies Christians and that white is willing to go to church every week to read the Bible to pray and to hold cool evangelical beliefs when the expenses I've had, I moved here 17 years gave from the UK and Nikkei evangelical Christians are a racist mole. I strange great from a cultural perspective I am and EMI guy from a claimant leave Dave if he had anything to make sure buddy got that married a guy from a cowboy smoke line Friday guy from China State University. Soon she will cowboy cowboy and as I got to know him from him.

His experiences growing up in a white Chechen man, and as I go to him as I got to understand a little bit more than American history. I found myself in a position a little bit like Harry Potter one point in the series when he has always seen his father is a hearing. His parents died when he was a baby in his mind is his father is this title hear a figure and his teacher Severus Snape. He hates and who hates him. His is always kind of guessing Harry about his father and telling him is that his father was really kind of Jack and how he just doesn't believe it until the series Harry ends up in snakes, memories, and he sees his father she bullying Snape currently Windows-based teenagers is disorienting. Then when he realizes that he's just when he was a jack.

Jackie also did good things as well but his father really was a jack and did do many of the things that he's been accused of doing an end only as a white evangelical getting my bearings here. It's kind to me that in many ways unfold as woodchucks when it when it comes to race and that's just that that's a sobering and unassigned reality. I love this is on the Maiman in an hypothesis when he is is watching the evil dementias like the tree sucking the soul out of his godfather serious black and completely out of my way from across the lake.

He sees this this guy costing the Petronas phallic expect a pretraining and this amazing Petronas challenges across the lake and scans of the demand and in the course of the story becomes think that that was his dad's election, it really looks like is that two things well. Somehow my dad's been able to conjure this Petronas as the story progresses, we find it wasn't Harry's daddy is having himself going cost that's about do nothing that his dad couldn't have done and I think that the reason I feel hateful stresses even as as a white evangelical today.

I think we have the opportunity to do what parents and grandparents and great cramped grandparents didn't date.

I think we had the opportunity to really model a consistently biblical ethic I can have the opportunity to perceive racial justice. Love across racial and ethnic difference the same time as we are upholding the did the good biblical values and also to other demand or biblical values we inherited from our forefathers but then be honest about the mistakes where they were to use your terms when they were a jerk yeah yeah and say we want to redo that and do that in a way that that that really puts the cross and yeah things we hear about is been on the right side of history and tragically, we look back in church history and in the United States and we see that the church was on the wrong side of history by the wrong side of Scripture when it came to racial discussions, but you hear that Mel applied to the transgender and the LGBT Q plus revolutions that sort of thing. How would you counsel Christians in just this perception of you know saying what we should be saved in the in the civil rights movement, and that's the same thing happening now as he points out that the problem with white Christian segregationists in the 60s and in the full wasn't that they were on the wrong side of history.

It was that they were on the wrong side of the Scriptures that the problem was that know they were being too biblical then they went back half the vehicle enough.

I think that's created real problems for us here today face and times of the direct injustice that is coolest in American history with white evangelicals using the Bible to justify their racism is José Ashley contributed to the situation we find ourselves in now Wessex was say the gay-rights movement is the new civil rights movement and justifies that the 60 segregationists use the Bible to justify their racism and to appraise the integration of schools to oppose mixed-race marriages, etc. etc. say Christians today are using the Bible to justify that homophobia decided that the logic confronting Christianity is that what we as Christians believe the Bible teaches that same-sex romance, same-sex marriage is is wrong. We are pro-same-sex friendship.

We believe that there is nonromantic nonsexual friendships between people. Same-sex is an essential part of that of the Christian experience.

Honestly, this is one of the primary ways we really need to get back to the Scriptures because too often we have celebrated Christian marriage at the expensive Christian singleness.

Christian marriage is a wonderful thing and pull right say peacefully about Christian marriage is famous this little picture of Jesus's love for his check.

She has an incredibly high view of Christian marriage that heals as a single man hasn't even Holly. If you've singleness. I think often in charge. Culture we've acted like a marriage is really the ideal. Another assumpsit of unfortunate people who for one reason or another I didn't end up getting married. Hey, but it's not the best thing this can particularly be a message that the women in the church receipt that you know you highest calling as a Christian woman is to be a wife and another thing we need to reckon with the fact that the Bible also tells us that the singleness is a wonderful way to live as a Christian and that single Christians shouldn't be outside the family unit that Ashley should be intrinsic to the family unit because it in New Testament times, the primary family unit is not the need to family, it's likely Chechen.

I think one of the ways in which we need to have a cultural change within our churches that will benefit married people that will benefit single people that will benefit same-sex attracted people that will benefit after sexual people who long for marriage and not married, and it will benefit those who been widowed, it will benefit invasive if suffered to full all of these facts. Basically all of us, whichever they can squeeze you in. We will benefit we trying to reclaim what the New Testament calls us to give the sees this picture of us is one body and a whole bunch of different buddies at one body together as we like brothers and sisters says when I come rights and seven processing is among the Thessalonians, like a nursing mother with the children. He calls his friend Anisa Mrs. Barry Hotz. We need to reclaim the real intimacy that can occur and should occur between Christians that isn't sexual is an erotic is unromantic, but it is nonetheless a place of real intimacy when it comes to that issue of sexuality is very poignant parts of confronting Christianity that was your own personal story and that's how you reckon with this and how you felt in the church and if you're comfortable with.

It is, as comfortable as you are. I love for you to share some of that story what that process is like you understand how the gospel spoke to you to. So as I can remember I've been a photo of Jesus, and as long as I can remember I've been attracted to women primary routes than men, crying out, this was something honestly that I thought I would grow out of Unisys Proteus phase that I'm going through. Not really sure what to make of it, but like hopefully something that, on grounds of someday and went off to college, though, you know, this is the time to stop being attracted to the guys something else. I immediately found that I was in the case and got into grad school and at that point on site and can accompany Thomas. I'm just in a grant this anymore. Unlike the proper grant at this point, and for a long time. It just felt honestly like a sad waste and it was something to which I was ashamed and it didn't seem to be doing anything useful in the well. The fact that you night by myself just floating there with women and not with men and I ended up any somewhat to my surprise and marrying a wonderful Christian man and and swear as I been very open with him about my and my services. Same-sex attraction she told about this to some humor my choices.

Christian friends to remove David his fighting is a gay and easy for several years off that I wasn't talking to my friends. It was a knee off today gay marriage was legalized across America in 2015 and I felt a real sleep value my Hotz for one thing, a better articulation of the. The beautiful story of biblical sexual ethics to be told and it seems to me that often charges when Ashley doing a good job of telling that story say effects for only the saying you know what we cannot completely throw out what the Bible says about same-sex sexuality and we gainsay and affirm same-sex sexual relationships old I was saying and we can get to double down on a culturalist mentality and double down on the ways in which Christians have have a fun like on a slanted set of hatred towards LGBT people. I bring my heart to see that since I like I wanted to be a tidal parts of the public conversation had that I haven't even had these conversations with my places Christian friends and the reason that I handed was that I was afraid that if I was honest about my expenses of same-sex attraction that might my female friends would take to sonic 1/2 step away from me and and I was at the terrifying prospect for me as someone he longs for that connection and and I think so one of us. Whatever struggles with sin will find that a legitimate needs are not being met in healthy ways that suffer my way. It makes tempted to reach for it for things that aren't unhealthy for us and so as I was afraid of that. But since stepping off a step back when I came to realize was actually by not talking about this issue for me. I was that she take 1/2 step back away from my friends I wasn't giving them an opportunity to to meet me in this, I wasn't giving them an opportunity to need to be. Might my sisters and wanted to be able to speak, trace, and Lovins my life. I think one of Satan's best weapons against us is convincing. Each of us that whatever struggle with sin is it is nothing we can talk about to place Christian friends recommends this. How can evangelical churches be safe places for people that buy themselves. When you were there years ago.

I think it's really easy for us as Christians to talk about the LGBT community out that in the chat chair as if these are completely separate communities.

When the reality is if we if we look at the statistics around the patents of same-sex attraction. It seems like about 14% of women and about 7% of men experience some significant degree of same-sex attraction. Now interestingly elite team to present to men and 1% of women exclusively attracted to those of the same sex. It is the cancer effects like me. Women who attracted to other women but not to the extent the bank. They couldn't be happily married to a man that she, the largest group of LGBT people.

I fall and and we need to recognize that in our churches. That means that a significant number of defects he shop on a Sunday or early in your small group renewal.

These people community this week. Out of that experience and say I wanted then always talking as if this is kind of initiate out that we need to normalize the fact this is probably an issue for many of my brothers and sisters in here and that all I as an individual and we as a great need to be a placement when fakes feel comfortable China struggles. I think in many churches. It's easier to confess a pornography addiction and same-sex attraction now to get me wrong, I think it's really important that people are able to talk about a pornography addiction and get help from their brothers and sisters in Christ.

But I think we've got things really messed up. If we state is allowed not to be a conversation we actually haven't created space for people who are struggling with same-sex attraction. What you say specifically to people as we hear this a lot that well you are asking me to deny myself when you like God made me and I've gotta love me is me the way that that I am responding to say yes, Jesus says that anyone who wants to put a hand must deny themselves and take up the cross and fully I think Nicole on same-sex attracted Christians is to deny themselves and take up the cross and fully Jesus.

She also the cool on heterosexual Christians and if we've created church culture as a place where only same-sex attracted FICA making real sacrifices to follow Jesus. We got some major problems on a hat. This is a being a Christian should be an experience of denying a self but not in a way that ultimately means you lose out what you're saying that we in general, so dumb down the call to repentance is likely a few habits when it really is for any of us heterosexual, homosexual ringworm that spectrum deny yourself and lay it all down. Yeah you lay it down because Jesus giving something back to and by that I don't mean I think sometimes we can have a domestic prosperity gospel way of thinking West result, we might bring up the kids in Saguenay if you're really good Gullah boy and Mike don't mess around sexually.

Then one day) can provide you with his perfect spouse, and how this like amazing in a sexually romantic people for life. The rest of the rest of you.

Your days and that's not a promise that we given in the Scriptures.

The promise that we all given in the Scriptures is that anything we give up Jesus. We look at the rewards of Jesus and I'll be so much better than the thing that we could've had and we get we get tangible glimpses of what it means to be placed in Jesus in his body today.

I love the biblical metaphor of the church is Jesus's body because it means that when I feel like physical embrace of a sister in Christ, if I'm going to trip the season of suffering in my life can at times will bite out the arms of Jesus around me, and if we are providing for and helping each other and listening to the other in caring for each other in the chat were experiencing Jesus and and that's one of the things that I think old all of us need. I think especially they see that tiny life in the rain sexually romantic fulfillment to follow Jesus.

II think they sex in particular need to feel the arms of Jesus around them and the like.

Judge what you say Rebecca about what is a faithful Christian witness look like in a politically polarized time right now because I know you're not a citizen of the United States and but we just came to a pretty contentious election image remains politically divided what what what's faithful Christian witness look like now go so many 70s also. One is I think we need to do what Christians should be really good at doing and that's repenting. I think that that's true when it comes. As we've already talked about MT that the treatment of black Americans historically and even recently. I think it's true when it comes to the ways that we've often fail to live up to biblical ethics and how we treated LGBT fake site.

I think we need to have a front fit of repentance.I IJ think it's the it's the kind repentance to some people guy for which is a repentance that she ends up fraying the Scriptures out.

I think it needs to be repentance that that lacks the Scriptures and one of the ways in which I see the sin of playing out tangibly is in the yard signs that people sticking around the place in my area and I think Don Don here as well.

By the say things like, I'm in this house. We believe that black placemats and love is love women's rights as human rights and other usually suited to Israeli claims depend on the specific sign I think is Christians, we will think on one of two ways, but with signs like that you know some fake you look at that sign and they'll say II know that it is an absolute like tree straight out of the Scriptures that the lives of black people matter and that racial justice is super important.

I've been told that these other claims are intrinsically tied up with that idea and so I would say that young son and I want have made it into my own yacht and embrace all of these things together. I believe in science and want to support rights writings rights are human rights and yeah exactly and in their fakes will look at baseline, say okay there is some things on assignment and in the Bible doesn't affect enzymes gonna knock it down in an affirmative allowance. I don't hear anybody has anything to say about any of these questions kind a like not none of this is is what Christian should be sent you're describing people in our church. I thought that we all got up gravitating toward others do now is a pool by my the other I think actually say like that's got a mocha or sheltie, and instead of sit is hammering that that sign in on knocking it either. Let's say okay if we take the Scriptures seriously what it Christians family notify within days. Just go to the neighbors yard and not anatomy on this bit of Morris Moore is a masterful will find when we do that is a very fruitful ways in which we can she build relationship with his fakes and outside the chat by saying a lot. We may disagree about leasing/I really agree with you on this unless like build on that foundation and start a conversation that will build trust and relationship on things that we wish will find other things miniature pencil and will will actually find as well that the very kind of moral soil and which these signs of flaunted is Christian soil because they the idea that human beings say equally morally valuable. The idea that the historically oppressed should be had 4 rods and trampled on the idea that men and women are equal, and the idea that that humble babies should on the idea of racial justice and equality and unity sciences, coming right over these come to us actually out of the Bible and and if we take Christianity out when not left with that from a secular foundation for the belief that all human beings are equally morally valuable that she left with an abyss knowing you playing Janke you pull that little block i.e. Kathy said inch that block out from the bottom and then you can build a high Attala people think he visited Jess. That's like pull Jesus out and I will make a tool set of singular moral talent. Actually, if we pull Christianity out.

It's more like pulling the pin on a grenade the whole thing is often smack and visit it atheist and is ready to sprinkle you will know her are hereby disclaimed by Nicholas Akins, a brief history of humankind. I want to think he's clear that not Dick is that Christianity is the reason we think that human beings are equally morally valuable and he says when you look at human rights as a figment of offsets at imaginations. He says that Jaime sapiens have the natural rights, justice, chimpanzees, pioneers, hyenas and spiders have no natural rights say so when you come to the assigned deadline of sinuses.

Women's rights are human rights, but she does no such thing as human rights.

If we pull the ideas that Chris and his given us out from underneath the. The edifice we designate that humans made in the image of God anymore, we die know that women are equal in value to man that that wasn't a self-evident truth in the Waltons which Christian and he was born in doing gets that the loss claims I like on the boat, which is that the transgender women. Women we find that if that statement is true. If somebody he was a biological male that identifies as a woman is as much of a woman as I am.

She didn't know what a women. It's we have completely relieved the essential definition of a woman from the time and only really for the stereotypes say it's it's fascinating to me.

The ways in which especially the transgender thinking today is actually undermining many of the things that even on Pepsi have said a secular feminist friends all or even traditional gay lesbian friends he would he would see some of things that being said by transgender activists today is that she quite undermining of things that that they held onto it and wants to build up incentives from the Christian sites.

We need to recognize the ways in which some of the current conversations and kind of turning back in themselves, so I think is can be very interesting in the coming years to see how these conversations plant even amongst secular friends and how we as Christians can speak helpfully and not just a one time that back in the 80s that really when he came to defending the faith questions that will dealt with was Christianity true.

What was the evidence that demands a verdict that what what what what the proof that Jesus rose from the dead. The next, arrow was this this burden in the in the late 90s and early 2000's of showing that Christianity was useful but it worked. Did you purposely give you fulfillment.

More recently, a lot of that when it comes to defending the faith questions are is Christianity just remote justice and even will, but what of what you're getting at is it beautiful and one of the things that in both confronting Christianity and the new book that I have the privilege of reading an advance copy of, but the name I can't secular creates a secular creed is that it showed that that Christianity is not only just true. It's also the church were launched just as the beauty meaning and purpose and so I just want to thank you, Rebecca, because I know that no stone you this earlier that God wrote the apostle Paul stored in a very specific way so that he could could speak truth into the church of his generation a particular time and you have a Damascus Road experience per se.

When I when I read your story I read that the struggles that God has allowed you to go through with the opportunities you have, you know, it is just very clear that God has raised you up as not just a witness to our generation.

:-) That is supposed to teach a lot of us how we can relate and engage with our culture and showing that the gospel is not just true, it's the answer for Long's remaining purpose and fulfillment of beauty and justice so mature to put your hands together and thank Rebecca for your with us, you know, Harry, Peter Harry Potter was to be required reading for this message and by the luminous technologist under there Christians out there who are not big fans of Harry Potter feeling uncomfortable with the curses and some of the imagery and and we respect that here. We really do, but she regarded as a worker famously like the Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the rings, both of which were written by Christian authors and utilizing the same imaginative element, so try to respect that. Also, okay, I urge you not to get hung up on that. That is not the big point of all this confronting Christianity is available at all or impersonal locations of the next steps area.

At least it was for time. I'm not sure when we will so out of it but if you can't get it there in all of her books can be found on Amazon or Barnes & Noble or anywhere that the books are sold on Pierce all want to close this time together.

I think appropriately and that is by praying together either by yourself or with the people that you came with this this morning. I imagine every single one of you at some point in that in that discussion with thinking man I wish I was so and so were here to hear that you're all this watch them the next few minutes praying for that person want to pray for them specifically in and ask God to empower you to be a witness and the cure you the boldness to go through that door. When God opens and not if he opens up, will you maybe that doors, be to invite them to watch this interview with you later this week.

Admin you take him out for coffee or something to discuss it.

So the question is who do you know that you want to pray for right now there's nobody in your life like that. Ask God to send you to somebody that you want to say God help me to speak more with truth and grace that is ask you to reflect which of those two comes more easily for you.

Are you speak with truth, person, or a speak with grace person grace person ask God to give you the courage to speak truth because you know that you're not doing people any favors if you're not speaking truth, I don't care how nice you are. Or maybe are the opposite. Maybe you're good at, the truth, but also your coverture. A lot of Christians like them. We also have theological video I say the right things will be a smell that maybe the sense God needs to work love in your heart and patience for the people that you're concerned about does you no good to repeat the words of Christ to come out with the spirit of Satan. The greatest thing you can communicate about Jesus is his tender love some of you right now what you can do is ask God for either the courage to be truthful or the love to be graceful or missing his last name. If you're confused many a lot of that stuff mirrors like members of the questions that I have want to use bold what you asked Jesus in these next few moments ask him right now say if you are real.

If your wheel would you reveal yourself to me. He's not offended by that I'm not offended as the pastor the church what you praying that in this place.

If your real you reveal yourself to me. One thing I know, Deuteronomy 429 says you will seek me and you will find me. If you seek me with all your heart and soul, but that process begin this morning. Okay so those are things I want you to pray about over the next 2 to 3 minutes year beginning right by yourself or maybe you print the people that you came with that will be better. But if he is uncomfortable that pray by yourself okay so the next two or three minutes praying that I'll call him, but