What About SCRIPTURE? Part 4

Your answering and and you think it's great that you focused entirely on external evidence, but really like you said it only really confirms the internal attestation of Scripture.

If you if we had all the world of the Bible of the New Testament. Specifically, and it contradicted itself. It would matter, right external evidence would only show that you have a reliable contradictory text so the internal consistency of being written as you said Michael been written by many prophets over centuries all speaking of the same God who's been working his plan. All throughout the history of the world from creation to revelation and glory, we see that all working out being the same God being preached and spoke up that that really that internal consistency and the prophecies fulfilled in Christ. All that is.

That's really the course in conjunction with the witness of the Spirit into the heart of the person reading it. That's really what convinces people and the external evidence I think like you said it just increases the confidence of the saints, but I don't personally based on my my views of sociology levees of salvation.

I don't think that the external evidence alone can convert someone and obviously God has to talk and use that evidence God must make. You must still make that word real to that person has to really work in the heart of that person reading the Bible to make it to really witness to them that this is his word that it's correct, it's true on Matthew and you can read our six goal Scripture alone if you want, but the summer you just gave this basically a summary of the book, so you may not need to read the good internal consistency. The witness of the Holy Spirit and Michael, you know, to your your experience, not by praise God that W should come to where we are in different ways because wanted to some some interesting things to discussing how to bounce off of each other, but she was as I was pointing out earlier when I teased out that one.

That one point that God has brought us to where we are in various ways, and of course the external evidence for me because of the way I have lost my faith in Mormonism, beginning with the book of Mormon as a historical taxed external evidence to me has been important, but the internal consistency of the book itself and experiences that I've had with the text of the Bible as I've as God has illumined my mind to see things differently.

I've mentioned some in earlier episodes. One I just just came to mind is no Philippians 26 through 11 talks about Jesus in us as number six.

Specifically says to being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God right and I remember as a latter-day saying I was teaching an elders quorum lesson tonight. I was looking for. You know is as you mentioned you, you did as well. Michael you are looking for passages in the Bible that supported Mormon doctrine right and and so I was looking for passage lesson that I was teaching was was on known eternal progression and I was looking for a passage that from the Bible that would support that right support this idea that it's not it's not audacious to think that we can become God's right so grabbed adverse and is no on face value seem to support the position right of all, Jesus didn't think it was robbery to be in the form of God, and be equal with God.

Why does anybody else criticize Latter Day Saints for thinking that in an and in the moment that I was delivering that lesson and using that verse is struck me like as I was speaking words of the verses struck me know that's not right. And I remember going home and looking at that verse in context and reading the rest of what is says about Jesus right but he made himself of no reputation took upon himself the form of a servant and went and was made in the likeness of men and was like wait a minute, he was all she was not in the likeness of men. So to try to use verse six to argue that men can become God doesn't work right. Some moments like that where God was was leaving little by little to see the Bible and angst to see if what a blast to take the Mormon filters often allow you just kind of a verse out of context and try to make it apply to those those moments as well have brought me to the place of seeing the Bible is reliable.

Some final question in this this, like the money question right is limited to come speak to our audience. So for Latter Day Saints. The concept of continuing revelation is of paramount importance in their doctrine and church structure the claim now prophets and apostles with authority to speak God's word today so as Bible and the Christian, what would you say the Latter Day Saints argues that we need more of God's word. The idea of God speaking anciently and not today would make God quote an absentee landlord who had once been engaged in earthly matters was now preoccupied somewhere else in the universe. Michael will entitle us in first. Although I am way to start. I think the first thing one is my mind right away is you I think of Scripture as being like a measuring stick right just to judge nonsense by what I see the LDS church doing is not only are the lengthening stick on one side by adding new revelation every time his conference.

I also see them shortening the other side because I see the apologists on time trying to disqualify the words of Paul, the other trusting well Christ saying that you have to go to Christ's words. He says the opposite is like well Paul's words are Christ's words on the don't you agree with that. Knowing how how is it any different from what you claim your profit and apostles duty on the space before the pricing know whether my my own voice and the voice of my servants, it is the same. I met with the LDS teachings, but no one thing that I would probably ask latter-day St. first is you believe the parables that Christ gave in the New Testament are still valuable today and if yes, then the timeless and I would say the same thing is true of the rest of the Bible as well. I would say that it is it is a living Scripture. You will need a living prophet because we have Scripture and nothing I like that my corporate citizen of the Bible's the only book that meets the so if the spirit is there to help us understand the Bible is one meeting on the one revelation I've asked Latter Day Saints. Tonight was the last time you read the book of you know what is on his throne randomly New Testament part of the Bible are chapter book out there on the Old Testament one CD. Often the grounds of the bucket engagement that one was the last time you read that when one never in case you not even reading the Scripture that you have.

So what's the point of getting the Scripture. If you haven't mastered the launch. So there's just some thoughts that I have honestly answered your question or not. I like I like the method of asking them when last molested in the red Habakkuk was I studied Habakkuk I Bible study shortly after becoming a Christian Sunday morning Bible studies we were studying through each of the minor prophets and so Habakkuk was up on the list and I think I probably was surprised that there was a book called Habakkuk so that the strategy value. Matthew will you say to Latter Day Saints argues that we need more of God's word go back to something Michael spoke laterally early on in one or discussing us and said you have what is your authority, what you consider to be sure. Just think about those things. How do you know truth and how do you not from God and one argument against causing Christianity as a whole is okay you guys all claim to fossil souls go to her but look at all the denominations and all the strife in all the confusion in your trying to preach on the wrong etc. etc. but there's so many presuppositions there that need to be unraveled. The need to be deconstructed because first of all, I'm or four Baptist. I'm not trying to convert every Christian to become reformed Baptist II want people to come to Christ.

And if they feel that they read Scripture and the particulars that I hold to in my denomination. They agree with. They want to come to my church great awesome if they want to go to a church that disagrees with me but they still hold to the Bible's word of God we believe in Christ alone is our Savior.

They trust in him alone for their salvation and their righteousness before God and have solid preaching there sure go there, that's fine. I'm not trying to win anyone to my denomination. I want to win people to Christ course not. There my efforts. I hope that God will use them as a means to bring them to Christ. But it's not me, it's the work of the spirit as to do that so I can wanted to mention that is that were not fighting each other to try to get each other to join each other's denomination, and when you look at a lot of the disagreement in Protestant Christianity look at what their authority is I think honestly the one of the biggest issue is impressing Christianity is that we claim we claim to hold the soul. Scripture, in actuality, we normally do a very good job at doing that and for so what is all Scripture it's kind of scene is like well you only need the Bible. That's all you need in your good discount like me in my Bible under the tree and he is about to talk about this because are sucking the Scripture, but that's no muscles, notorious Alaska tour is that the Bible is the soul infallible rule of faith and practice for the church as a soul infallible because we have other authorities that are subordinate to and are fallible there subordinate to Scripture and they are not infallible. So when we talk about the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, the apostles Creed is a three big ones.

The ancient creeds that were accepted by historical Christianity.

You can take every one of those phrases and find where you can see that in the Bible. It's not an authority on its own.

The only authority those creeds have is if they are in conformance to Scripture. Scripture is the ultimate final soul infallible authority. That's also Scripture means we have other authorities have my elders and my church that I submit to.

They, I believe that they do have an authority course if they deviate from Scripture, you know that's kind of neat and they must hold the Scripture. Just like I do and I must follow them as they preach faithfully Scripture so those are things that really need to be understood by Latter Day Saints because I hear over and over and over again attacks also Scripture aura saying it's useless and it does make sense to have only the Bible because array interprets it differently.

But that's not what guitar means it's important to have a stock of things that creeds and confessions that are historical to go back in time and are pointing to Scripture because I think today that's kind of the view that a lot of Protestants sadly do have is that okay I don't need anybody to tell me what the Bible says I can just read it on my own my own conclusions. And it's good to an extent, in the sense that you can read the Bible and you can come to know Jesus. You can know who God is, you can know you are a sinner in need of salvation that you are completely cut off from God. In terms of your righteousness that you need a Savior, but I think it's dangerous when you just say okay when you disregard what everybody said about the Bible before me. That's where you got trust his Russell.

That's where you got LG white Mary Baker Eddy. That's read all these people to said okay the truth was lost. I'm in a go back and say what it really said what Scripture really taught or I'm in in I'm gonna bring forth new revelation that fixes all this mess. Then fix anything they just cause more problems.

So really we need to do is we need to understand we need to read Scripture in light of what others have said before us, just as the reformers did Martin Luther, Calvin Turton. They all were concerned about okay am I interpreting Scripture. Somebody behind me somebody within the church behind me.

Do they have similar views. They were really concerned about this because they didn't want to just come up with something completely off-the-wall brand-new. They were concerned that that they were not just coming up with a brand-new religion.

Since we believe that Christ had build his church. He said in Matthew 16, I will build my church, and he had build his church and its continued since then. So when you have some level continuity and the need to consider what godly men in the passive read about Scripture and so I think most of the issues the people that present Chris Kennedy has is not the use of so Scripture aura, but the rejection of it and inserting another authority that is supplemental to possibly superior to Scripture the case so as wanted to bring that up and as far as single Latter Day Saints. You say it's not enough for there anymore.

I would ask you what is it that the Bible doesn't teach that you need to know things and we need to know for certain who is God who is Jesus, who are we wire we hear, how did God create the world where we headed. What is God's plan for us and how do we know the Lord Jesus in us saving salvific relationship. How can we become united to Christ. All of these things that we absolutely need to know they're all there.

We don't need anything else.

There in Scripture. You just have to look for if you want to talk my secondary issues like how should our church. The operating you now should be her baptism on adults who profess faith in Christ only or infants of believers also those are all secondary issues because I think you don't need baptism be saved. You can know Christ through faith for the gift of faith in God's grace alone. So the secondary issues there.

There are things that Christians are trying to wrap their heads around and we want to interpret Scripture faithfully and consistently to arrive at a an answer that is consistent with Scripture and glorifying God.

But if we disagree on the things that's okay. We have the unity in the essentials and we talk about that and in another episode. Sorry I'm going out with long tail messing so this this phrase absentee landlord. This was spoken at the last general general conference speaking, the Christian God is an absentee landlord who had once been engaged in earthly matters, but was now preoccupied somewhere else in the universe when I want to say about that is just because God is not operating the way that some of us may want him to operate today does not mean that God is not operating or active in the world whatsoever we see, for example, we see God in creation. The 1st to 6 days. God created the universe. He ended that creation. There is a definite time or that creation was supposed to take place and it was post and God is not creating things anymore terms of how we created it in the creation that presented God called prophets, and made covenants with them, and in many of those covenants were to be logical of endpoint to Christ and fulfilled in Christ. Those things were fulfilled in Jesus God has got is a plan for everything from the beginning, God did not give a continuous stream of revelation all the way for the beginning there were periods of decades or over hundred years where there were no profits, and so they relied on what had already been given and before Christ, there is about 450 years of no revelation what is the use they had the Scriptures they use those in their in their spiritual life they read the Torah.

They they read all the Tanakh. That's the Old Testament they read that in their worship services.

The day there was periods of whether they followed it well or not they had that Scripture and only see the New Testament with Christ. There's that new movement we see every time there's something new going on, or some new fulfillment. Christ setting up his church setting up the apostle sending them out through the world to preach the gospel, not only to the Jews to the Gentiles. We see God giving tones and gifts and healings, and those are out in phases. God planned that out in phases and towards the end of the apostolic age we see less healings we see we see less of these miraculous gifts being operative. This was all planned out by the end of the first century BC revelation and the biblical canon given is completed with the end of the writings of John with the completion of Canon we have the church now the Scriptures to guide us to do and we still have God acting today. He still operative. He's working in the hearts of believers.

He's eliminating our minds and hearts is also to understand Scripture he's giving us understanding he's sanctifying us purifying us from our sins and settings apart from the world. God is definitely active. I don't think that just because there's no profits giving Brandy revelation every day that God is an active ease active just not in that particular fashion so that's basically what I want to say, a lot. I wish I could condense on.

I don't have anything bad to you did cover a lot there but it was absolutely wonderful. I I will just say that a man need teammate and then one style into this summit of the outer podcast. Please visit the out of rightness podcast Facebook. Feel free to send us a message than with comments or questions, send a message at the top. The pain appreciated the page life. We also have an out of rightness, and others. As we discussed past episodes can also send this out of rightness on scribe to the out of rightness podcast on podcast cast box cast cast the modify institution. Also you can check out our new YouTube channel. If you like it certainly is likely surveyed also connect with Michael just wind up lungs and sometimes Poland method you as well. Music for the out of rightness podcast is graciously provided by the talented Breanna Flournoy and by Adams Road. Learn more about Adams Road. By visiting their ministry page. It Adams Road ministry.com. Stay bright fireflies to show the kind that you and is a and and and and she you and and and a will that may