Passport To HEAVEN

Hey this is Mike Zwick from if not for God podcast our show stories of hopelessness turned and I hope your chosen Truth Network podcast is starting in just seconds. Enjoy it share but most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing The Truth Podcast Network. This is the Truth Network in your fireflies. Paul here Brandon Matthew have the week off so today Michael and I are joined by a special guest were super excited to bring your conversation with Michael Wilder of the Adams Road ministry. I was first made aware of. Adams wrote a decade ago when a friend of mine, Jackie Davidson linked me to a YouTube video of Micah talking about the beginning of Adams Road. I was less than a year out from the decision that Angela and I have made to leave the LDS church as a family and to see Jesus. I watched Micah's video on YouTube. Late one night and then binged through the life on Adams Road. Documentary later will be relaunching our podcasts. I reached out to Mike and ask if Adams Road would be willing to let us use their song. The cross is our outer music and he was so very gracious and gave us permission to use any Adams Road music. So for the past year. Our listeners of heard Adams Road at the end of each of our episodes again were thrilled to have you, Micah. Welcome to outer brightness.

Thank you Paul think it's an honor to be here so I think many of us do some quick introductions for for Micah's benefit. Michael and a few go first in the Nago. Yeah.

So I've been out of Mormonism for five years actually let you Micah when I was still a brand-new X number Texas right yeah down there new Braunfels by which is actually my church home now but yeah I like a kid in a candy store walking and they're like oh my gosh, there's these other explorations in and they turned out okay. They're not even broken that it was actually super nice for me to deceive guys in here your testimony at that time. Yeah, I've been in the church. 32 years and I started to your mission. Also try to talk to a couple pastors out on my machine that of the same exact the same impression as the other pastor that you ran into but you came back home and I have the time to debate with Christians online, including your mother for me. But yeah eventually the ice decided to study Grayson and learn church was lost and I'm just forever grateful to God for pulling me out praise, so when you went to see us share our ministry at new Braunfels Bible you'd never been there and and now it so you went there to see us and that's now your home church with pastor, I would fill right Phil Congdon Chesterfield is what like he's one of the most gray centered preachers. I I've ever met in all of our years of traveling in and doing ministry so that that's so encouraging a fag. I think we just arrange I think were coming back to your church this year. I thought email on the booking from Pastor Phil, and I think that he and Matt just got something finalized so exhausted man that had the case that I will see you guys whenever you come back down cool. I so my grandpa I have been out of the LDS church since 2010, served a two-year mission in Hungary, from 97.

The 99 and during that time had an encounter with the Baptist missionary couple, just one afternoon attracted into their apartment. They let us in the preached grace to us and I left at meeting with them kinda shook knowing that they were they were offering something very different than what I had received to that point in my life from the LDS church that day. My mission was rough. I was very much caught up in like the bureaucracy of the all of the LDS church. I was asked to serve as the branch financial clerk there in that small city and and and asked to get the finances, back in order.

They were like four months in arrears of being balanced and everything and so I spent a lot of my time not doing missionary work, and so it was good kinda had me down and so that at that encounter with that Baptist missionary couple was a bright spot in that in that area of my mission and it kind of pushed me into reading the New Testament in the rest of that area and the my last area of my mission. Following that, and as I started to do that and you reading through Paul and reading through all of what Jesus says not just select passages started to see some major differences in and then I came home. You know that my wife moved out here in the Cincinnati area and I went online and started to try to better understand my obvious faith and encountered some of the difficulties that come up polygamy and Joseph applying all that kind of stuff and they put me into a pretty pretty bad spiral and an faith crisis to where I was like man I don't think I believe in God anymore feel like I've been lied to and then from there, decided I was just going to build on on Jesus like he was to be my foundation and I would if I was gonna have faith to rebuild my faith on him and try to do that for the next about decade of my life within the LDS church to the point where SharePoint 2010 where I realize no, neither myself nor my wife were growing in Christ within the LDS church and we needed to go somewhere where we could where we would hear the truth, preached every week and so we left in 2010 while that's incredible story so were there it in the things that you learned in her reading the New Testament towards the end of your mission.

Did any of those things trigger something in you that indicated that the church institutionally wasn't true or was it just simply your kinda learning things that were developing your own personal relationship with Christ a little bit of both but I think what really came before those final months months of my mission was realizing how much of the book of Mormon relies on like the epistles of Paul night and for some of its language and that type of thing and so seeing that kind of clear in front of me. It really started to raise questions in my mind that we were there were already kind of bare about the book of Mormon to the point where when I was done with my mission.

I came home in a signed up to farms Journal book of Mormon studies and was really looking to try to find okay worst.

Where's the article archaeological evidence that the book of Mormon is actually an ancient document so you still use it 10 years from that point to where you left it up with the best and only Congdon could use this right.

The iconic I can. It took a detour through more progressive type Mormonism like what you would see with the John blend our course on standard dialogue and try to make that kind of work for me and ultimately that left me and did as well. So yeah, all her little bit more stubborn than you message to penetrate II think you know I say that I think I was too stubborn when God had that God had to throw me off of a cliff that's that's kinda how I see it, you didn't even give me the opportunity to take the detour. He just just push me off the cliff and forced me to trust him, but appreciate both your testimonies and and Michael I am and I'm knowing your story for a while and I even remember listening to you and my mother have that that radio interview.

I think that was based out of like London or something right. It was in England and yet it was several years ago and it's just amazing how how the Lord works and obviously he's lit a fire under you for ministry in the stuff you do online and everything else in your own book now admit it's just really love you brother and appreciate your testimony so I'm encouraged to now do out interviews and other things but doing it with people who are our former Latter Day Saints. Now Christians is to me it's it's a special opportunity to to be able to connect the brothers in Christ to you have walked that same path. It doesn't really matter. The detours we took along the way mean ultimately we were in outbound and legalism an hour set free in Christ. And so we we really have the same story and it's just a matter of Fino praising God because of it. So, so, like most of our listeners are probably familiar with the story. But for those who may not be in without giving away too much from your soon-to-be published memoir. Can you briefly tell us how God led you from Mormon to Jesus yeah yeah so so II was born and raised in a very devout Mormon home action the Midwest in the state of Indiana and then my freshman year of high school. My family moved to Utah and my mother became a Prof. BYU and so naturally we became very entrenched in the culture of Mormonism and so I went on a mission in 19 and I was sent to Orlando Florida and I was I was at the very devout, very passionate zealous young Mormon missionary went out trying to make converts and I believed I with all my heart that that the LDS church was everything they claim to be.

I had I had an what I thought was an unshakable testimony in each of the five principal pillars of Mormonism and I took that testimony to the doorsteps of a Baptist church where I attempted to convert a Baptist pastor sincerely believing that he didn't have the fullness of the gospel as I believe that the church was offering me and so I sat down with this.

This pastor's name was Alan Benson shared our belief system with him and his response to me was something unique and something life-changing. It was simply to read the Bible like a child and and and and he shared the gospel with me in a way that I never before heard and then the simplicity that the work of Christ on the cross was was perfect and complete, and was sufficient to bring me into a right standing with God and that I could have the guarantee of my salvation independent of Mormonism or of any of my own merits or works of righteousness that were established through the laws and ordinances of this religious institution and in that salvation was a free gift to be received by faith and and so is a Mormon. As you know, this was this was a message that was in complete contradiction to everything that I'd ever been taught my entire life. And of course I believe that Jesus died for my sins. I believe that his and his death on the cross was necessary for my salvation but I only believe that it was part of a much greater whole of which I needed to contribute my own. You know, righteousness, and works to that and so he set me back with this challenge to read the New Testament through the eyes of a child to put away my preconceived notions and to allow God through his word to show me his truth and so I spent the rest of my mission throughout the state of Florida reading the New Testament daily and in total in about 20 months time I read the New Testament 12 times from cover to cover and that's what God used to to transform my life and I wish I could say why just had one great epiphany and everything made sense, but it was as you probably know it was a very slow transformation process for me of God using you know his his word to to begin to wash my eyes and an end and wash the blindness away and revealed to me the immeasurable riches of his grace and kindness in Christ Jesus, and show me that that Jesus was the only thing that could bring me satisfaction with God and could reconcile me to God I didn't need all of these other man-made elements of this religious system to be saved and to be forgiven, but that I could have the assurance of my eternal life through the the work of Christ, and so end up getting saved toward the very end of my Mormon mission I had about three weeks left and of course that brought a lot of very interesting storylines into my life and I'll kinda save some of that but suffice to say, Christ rescued me.

He brought me salvation and I was born again through through the living and abiding word of God and I praise God for for saving a wretch like me and and is much as I thought the things that he was teaching me through his word that that he'd never let go of me and any love me with with an unconditional love that even when I was his enemy. He sent Christ to die for me and in that that was the manifestation of his love was was Christ's death for me on the cross and so God begin to do an amazing work in the life my friends and family members and other people that you know eventually came to faith as well. Praise God know what amazes me about your story because the guys here in our brightness we had it really easy because we came to faith. After our missions and we were away from our families and everything in just thinking about you. You be born again is Elliott's missionary. When you get the most amount of scrutiny and the most pressure from family was it like being born again. During that time and was there a conflict between still being in Elliott's missionary, and in knowing the truth about .0 absolutely and and I think that that the challenging thing for me was that I didn't really know how far had come until I look back at where I began. So wasn't like as I was learning things reading the New Testament. I ought you know automatically begin to question the church or the fundamental teachings of the church.

It was just more of a development of my own personal relationship with God through Christ and a recognition of how deep his love was for me and it wasn't really until the very end. Actually, through reading the book of Hebrews that I came to realize that there was a dissonance. They are not dissidents was that Christ came and he fulfilled the elements of the old law that no longer have any bearing on our righteous standing before God and once I realize that the priesthood and the prophets, and that the role of the high priest in the in the temples and all these elements that were specific to pointing and foreshadowing the coming of Christ, that once he fulfilled that there was no longer any need for them and that's really when the light bulb came on and I realized okay now I'm got three weeks left on my mission the most zealous Mormon missionary that perhaps has ever existed and now I know with the with the certainty that the church itself is not true in and that was really a challenging position to be in because I knew that I could no longer serve two masters. And I knew that I could no longer continue.

And in fact I remember just very fervently praying to God and and asking him what do I do now. Like how do I come forward to my my leadership, my friends, my family about this changes you made in my life and in his response in his answer to that prayer was for me to share what he had done in my life and my final departing testimony, and that was kind into the domino that that started to knock everything over that point and but I praise God that he gave me the strength you know to be able to to witness of my faith even when I was in that situation of being no such of a faithful Mormon missionary right see where the first the wildest to be born again. Tell me about your family's response.

Let me learn what happened to you on your mission. So I think that the.

The good thing is that God had been preparing their hearts. I think even long before my mission.

But even throughout my mission because as I was undergoing this transformation. I was kind of sharing tidbits with them through my weekly emails and although it wasn't necessarily direct. It was certainly kind of a foreshadow of what God was doing in my heart and in where my life was leading and my dad now talks about like how when he was reading my missionary letters.

He kept telling my mom this sounds like the sounds like Paul the apostle, because my even my language was changing to be more Christ centered more New Testament centered and more grace centered and so I think he was, preparing them but but the point of actually getting to the point of the end of my mission where I was sent home in my mission concluded early. I think that was a shock to my parents.

It was a shock to my siblings. My younger sister and one of my older brothers. They were very open to my challenge to read the New Testament that they they really didn't put any judgment or condemnation on me.

I think they they knew that God had done something marvelous to my life and I think they wanted to know more about what he had done my parents. I think were scared and confused but I think they were also curious because I had kind of been there, you know, esteemed Mormon son who had worked so hard to know establish my zeal for Mormonism throughout my life and so I think that they saw that I had an emphasis on Christ that I'd never before had, and I think that that really propelled them into investigating more of what God was doing in my life which eventually led them to the New Testament and ultimately to salvation. I love that, especially they said that God was preparing their hearts because one thing that that X Mormons, especially when were newly out.

You only worry so much about how the family going to react to this is at least maintain that relationship and ultimately how my going to help them see that they're not in the church so I like to hear your experiences with you, learn about interacting with, and responding with LDS families like this is anything in particular that we can do that you would recommend. Certainly, for one, one of the mistakes that we see a lot when people are engaging LDS friends and family members is that there there to blunt when they're dealing with certain aspects of Mormonism and in putting ourselves back in our own shoes.

Right when we were faithful members of the LDS church. I think there certain subjects that are very sensitive to Mormons.

You know the character of Joseph Smith. You know, certain historical things. You know the temple think things that are are easy for them to to be offended by, and therefore put up a wall and so when were dealing with, or encouraging people dealing with Latter Day Saints. We always try to keep the focus emphasize on the gospel on the word of God and in on the grace of God and and I think that it helps have a better dialogue with people rather than putting them in situations where there immediately to put up barriers. I think of the other thing that is important for all Christians and for transitioning no X Mormons to understand is ultimately you have to find your identity in Christ and ultimately you have to be willing to lose the things and the people that you love. In order to follow Jesus of Nazareth and and I got to that point as a Mormon missionary.

I knew that if I was fourth right about everything that got it done in my life it was going to change my relationships. It was going to change my future. It was going to change the very fabric of the things that I loved and the person that I was in and that's such a crucial part of of discipleship is taking up our cross and following Jesus and losing our life so that we can find it and so on. Encouraging up there's people that are going through the process. We have understand that Christ has to be the sufficiency of our every need, and if that means losing relationships to follow Jesus, then, then so be it.

But we need to lose relationships because were lovingly right and boldly proclaiming the gospel, not because were deliberately offending people bind by you know, creating situations that cause them to be needlessly offended thank you for that. Couple things he said really resonated with me. Wanted is reading the book of Hebrews we had conversation on outer brightness about how that that book especially is impacted all three of us and you know the other was just you think about what you said about you willing to give up everything you have the words of Paul the apostle. The short rendered in your song the cross are just so powerful.

You know those those words, you become kind of a rallying cry for me after I left the LDS church because you write you as as as Latter Day Saints. We leave we do have to be willing to give up everything, including relationships with family, because that may be the result. But, but, ultimately, we hope that we respond in love and I think there's some good advice there as well. So thank you for that. So let let's talk a little bit about your book.

What was it like to revisit your journey in the form of writing and to God teach you anything new through that process. Yeah, yeah, it was it was a challenging experience for me and it was a long experience. In fact, I when I returned to Florida immediately after my two-year mission in January 2006.

I actually started writing my book that same week I felt very compelled by the Holy Spirit to begin soon to write my story and to communicate what got it done even the conversations and things that it happened with my mission president and others that had I not immediately written those things down. I mean, I probably would've forgotten over times of pretty amazing house meticulous. I was about journal keeping it other things begin that process I worked on a on-and-off for 15 years and every time that I went back to it. God was continually teaching me things even about my own story that I didn't understand, and is as were continuing to grow in the knowledge and grace of Christ. Right as we continue to go through the process of think patient is Christians. I was going to do personally. Therefore, my ability to convey my story also grew in the church and allowed me to see things in a way that I didn't fully understand know at the time and so I think that the way that God had me write it in the way that it worked out. Maybe some of my own foolishness in my own procrastination that sometimes expanded several years ended up being to the benefit I think of this whole experience and but I'm really happy with the way that it turned out, and that's actually unique in the sense that it's not really like a lifelong memoir and it's not really about me. It's not about people getting to know me as a human being or my lights or dislikes. It's it's about Mormon missionary that comes to know Jesus and it really only encompasses the two years of my Mormon mission from the very beginning to to the day that I leave and so that is the story and it's about how the gospel transform the life of the of a young Pharisee. All right, that's awesome is exciting. When is the enemy released and how can I get a copy of that. So the book is out on June 2, 2021, and that they can get anywhere. Books are sold on Amazon Christian book.com or or or anywhere else right so that we continue the conversation podcast leaving the LDS church can be painful. I could talk a little bit about how that pain manifested in your journey. Yeah, I think for the most challenging and and painful aspect of it for me was when I was reading the book of Hebrews and I read it I think is beginning in chapter 7 and I think in the the LDS quad. They they have the chapter titles and it says Melchizedek priesthood explained or something like that and for some reason that caught my eye and so I read chapter 7 I read chapter 8 I read chapter 9 I read chapter 10 and then something happened like something clicked in in my my mind and my heart in my eyes and and in the spirit just took away the blindness right remove that veil to where I was able to see the fulfillment of Christ for the sufficiency of Christ that that's that's that the element that the writer of Hebrews is so desperately trying to convey is the sufficiency of Christ and the supremacy of Christ. And when I came to realize that I realize that that the core elements that I had put so much of my heart and life into and Mormonism were were were false right. They were a false foundation, and in fact I had been a full-time temple worker before I went on my two-year mission. III ended up getting my eye receiving my endowments a couple months before I was to leave on my mission and I spent six weeks working full-time as a veil worker in the temple and the amount of time and an energy and effort that I was pouring into believing that this was the place where I can connect with God and these prophets and these men were the one that speaking were intercessors between me and God, and to realize that Christ was the fulfillment of all of those things right that that he is now our intercessor only intercessors as as Paul says that there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus and that he is the temple of God, the body of Christ is now the temple I individually in the temple of God. House of the Holy Spirit by the living stone being built into a spiritual house. All these things.

It was hard to come to the realization that I'd invested so much of my heart so much of my life so much of my testimony.

So many tears into elements that were not truth and and I think that I was the most difficult thing for me doctrinally and I think from a more worldly perspective.

I was just afraid of losing my status and again I was only 21 years old is not like I was an apostle.

Her anything like that but you know I I was.

I had a scholarship to BYU.

My mother was a world renowned professor BYU now I'd served a faithful mission. I had been a full-time temple worker. I mean I had it established a reputation amongst my family, my friends, my community for my zeal and and the prospect of losing that and losing what people thought about me was was terrifying to me and and I know it's a selfish thing but it's reality. I was afraid of what was gonna happen to those relationships with my immediate family with my friends.

My girlfriend and admit I wouldn't be able to return to be a human. My life was going to change and and having to accept that and trust that God would see me through that and that if I had him I had everything that I needed. I think that that got me through you know that fear and uncertainty of what the future was going to bring that's awesome thanks that answer. I really resonated with you that I think I think all of us as ex-Latter Day Saints have to go through that process of realizing like like John the Baptist did right. He must increase and I must decrease and can be difficult for us at times because some because of some of the teachings we received is Latter Day Saints that the kind of puff us up and give us the sense of you know we want to build a reputation, we want to build a façade of faithfulness and yeah I think we'll have to go through that so interesting to hear you say that as well. Thank you. It's the only thing we go through as far as fear. There's a lot of fear involved with leaving the church, and everything that you lose as far as family relationships, I found that family can be a pretty big idol. I was asking Micah your journey. In view of your head. The doubter second-guessing yourself and if so how did God put you through that good question honestly know, in particular as it relates to leaving Mormonism. I i.e. I had such a profound and and and tangible and life-changing experience as a missionary through the word of God and and and I came to know that the love and the grace of Christ in a way that that was so life-changing that II knew that nothing could ever offer me that I not that was the thing that I walked away from my mission being able to say unequivocally was that Jesus was enough for me and I know that's kind of become the theme of our ministry, Jesus is enough, but it but it's not just know a catchy phrase it's it's to come to know the all sufficiency of Christ to satisfy your every need, and to offer a something that the world can never give us in one site and tasted of the bread of life and drink the living water and and and had no rivers of living water flowing out of my heart been filled with the Holy Spirit and brought to newness of life and died to my old self.

II knew that I couldn't ever have anything in this world that I would that would ever satisfy me in the way that Jesus Christ had now there's certainly been II would say that the Ares of doubt, where I've struggled and it's never really been a doubt of faith, but it's been a doubt of myself and that I think there's kind of this mentality that when I become a Christian that I should just be better right. I should be a better person and everything should get good and it should be easier to resist sin into all these other things and and you get 10 to 15 years down the road and you still see the weakness of your flesh right mocking you and and and you still see yourself do things that that are not something that somebody in Christ should be doing and and you start to go man like him.

I really saved like you know have I really been born again like why am I doing these things and encouragement for me has always been reading Paul's lament in Romans seven right or he says a wretched man that I am who will deliver me from this body of death.

The city I do the very things that I hate. I don't do the things that I should do that. I wanted you. Thanks be to God that we have your victory in Christ and in that victory is that there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

And so that's a important reminder for me that this life as a Christian is a constant process of sanctification and I'm not there yet and I continually make mistakes and I continually see Satan trying to to discourage me from faithfully following Christ or letting my sin get in the way of me being able to faithfully serve Christ and and to be reminded of how how deep God's will, of grace is that when Christ suffered, and bled, and died on the cross that he paid not in part, not mostly but in full the penalty that I owed to God that those sins have a have been washed clean by the blood of Christ I stand clothes in his righteousness before God, to where I can be declared not guilty because of what Christ is done in that nice to spend encouragement to me not to lose faith and into not be discouraged by by the weakness of my flesh is beautiful. I appreciate you sharing that. I think it's getting really meaningful for a lot of X Latter Day Saints. I think a lot of the struggle with the same kind of thoughts I know that I do and I've only been out five years now, but to me that's long enough and I find myself saying okay.I know this is mostly the sanctification thing that comes after salvation.

So where is that and yeah, after realizing the same things to definitely amazing where God taken us and I know that he is faithful to finish the work that he begins in us as well. I want take a little bit about the Adams Road ministry. How did that come about is why I completed my mission in January 2006 and immediately following my mission.

There were four other young man, one of the my brother another one who is a missionary that I served with that all left the Mormon church became born-again to the word of God and we all had a similar passion and that passion was music and we felt called to take our musical gifts and to begin to share what God had done in our life through through song.

And of course at that time we were brand-new Christians. We had a lot of growing a lot of maturing to do, but as as we matured and and grew in the knowledge and grace of Christ, we begin to center our ministry and our music on the word of God and so we began to take that the Scriptures literally the Scriptures and to reconcile them and to put them into music in a way that we felt like there were just not a lot of people doing that so much of the kind of contemporary Christian music scene was was filled with so much music that that wasn't really the word of God and we wanted other people to have the same life transforming experience that we had and that was to be born again through the word of God. We knew how powerful the word of God was that it's living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and so we said what what more powerful words, can we have been to take God's literal word and put it into music and to use that as a vehicle to share the gospel. So he began doing that and so we been doing it for 15 years now are our ministry members have changed over the years, but in our purpose is not.

We we've done 10 full-length albums just filled with the word of God.

We distribute all of our music and all of our materials for free and we travel all over North America each year about 4 to 5 months visiting churches in and in encouraging and equipping the church to fulfill their purpose which is to to go out and make disciples and to encourage them with our testimonies into its click on the good, the good news of Christ. Beautiful. A man on another steadily growing pains as we started out her brightness and kinda started doing things I know I definitely felt spiritually attacked during those early months when we were recording and figuring out how to edit episodes and get them posted online and as a kind of gone forward.

There's been things we learned in just thankful to God that that your ministry that he's been faithful to bless your ministry and ours as well. So one of the things that that I appreciate about your ministry. As I followed your the years is is that you keep. First things first. And by that I mean that that there's a lot of ways that LDS teachings veer away from biblical teachings and end, and there's many issues with LDS Church history as we know you place the preaching of the gospel to Latter Day Saints front center. While you focus on the gospel and why not get involved with pointing out other doctrinal errors of the LDS church. That's a good question answer question we get a lot my my my simple answer to that would be Romans 116 for I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God into salvation to everyone who believes the gospel is what saves ultimately. So knowing that Joseph Smith was a false prophet doesn't save anybody. It may be part of the road that they need to travel to get to salvation, but ultimately the gospel is what's hates that is what people need to hear in order to have eternal life. And so our goal. Our purpose right.

Our mission is as any Christians mission should be is the fulfillment of the great commission right is is the proclamation of the good news of Christ to go out to all creation and an interpreter to proclaim the good news. And so we emphasize the word of God and we emphasize the gospel of Christ because that's what transformed us and it's not to downplay what many ministries do, which is you know God uses all sorts of means to bring people out of darkness and into his marvelous light. But ultimately coming out of Mormonism is not the goal coming to Christ is the goal and an end and as you know and as I know it is we've seen plenty over the last in particular the last five years.

There are hordes of people leaving Mormonism but but many of those people are not coming to to biblical Christianity to a faith in the biblical Christ.

And it's because I think so many of them are leaving Mormonism because they see the fallacy of the religion but they're not seeing the truth and the truth is Jesus.

He is the way the truth and the life and the only way to the father and so were in and continue to lovingly and boldly proclaim the grace of God, the truth of God because therein is the salvation that brings people to eternal life. And so we tell people our ministry like our purpose is not to bring people out of Mormonism our ministry is to bring people to a saving relationship with Christ and I can tell you with a certainty that when people come to a true saving relationship with Christ in the born-again. They will leave the Mormon church is as you know, as Michael knows you can try to stay in as long as you want. My parents tried to do that but but eventually you come to realize that you can't serve two masters that that knowing. Grace removes you from legalism and eventually that'll draw you out of the Mormon church and so that that's been our emphasis and will continue to be so that I think that there's there's the old adage that the job here for Latter Day Saints know that the people can leave the LDS church, but they can't leave the LDS church or its people alone so Michael why can't you leave Mormons alone to take offense to that statement, but now I actually I'm encouraged by because I don't want to leave Mormons alone and it's because I love them minutes.

It's as simple as that. It's like saying Paul, why don't you leave the Jews alone and Paul would say it's because I love that right and and one of my favorite and and kinda driving ministry passages for the last 15 years has been what Paul said to the Romans.

In Romans 10 one through four. Talking about the Jews. This is my hearts desire for them is that they may be saved.

For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge for being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So I think for every X Latter Day Saints who now is a follower of Christ.

That is our motivation. That is our impetus for what we do is we love the Mormon people and if we didn't love them. We would leave them alone but true love is seeing people in darkness and proclaiming the truth to them and so II think that it's it's okay to not leave them alone because I don't want them to stay where they are because that's what I once was to not sin, darkness, and I want them to be removed from that darkness.

I want the veil to be taken from their eyes, and I want them to see the glorious gospel of the grace of God that's been revealed in Christ Jesus and and for them to be born again and saved and brought into eternal life, as I do at every group of people from from any background in any part of the world, but I obviously have a particular heart for the Mormon people because I was once there. Yet just so thankful to God to for all the people in all of our lives that made a difference that didn't just take that mindset of skin I leave him alone.

You have your past pastor that you convert didn't just say well you know the helices in a bad mood.

Now I'm just gonna let them leave, but came back in and gave you that challenge to read the Bible with the Isaac child and I don't look back at any of these people and disparage them and say why couldn't they just left me alone, I just say thank you thank you Jesus for sending these people relentlessly after me. I think it's one of the biggest mistakes that we see Christians make is that they see Mormons are the Mormon missionaries walking on the street and they don't bother sharing the gospel with them because they've already predetermined in their mind that they're not going to receive it or accept it, or that God can't save somebody like that and so that's one of the encouraging things that were trying to do thorough testimonies and I know you know you and Paul are doing as well as look God can save these people and he does and he will but are are are are calling in Christ is to preach the gospel. How are they to hear unless someone preaches and how can they preach unless they are sent right.

Faith comes through hearing and hearing through the word of Christ. And so we have this this amazing obligation as Christians to take the word of God that is transformed our lives and to share it with those who don't know it and that's Mormons, that's Muslims.

That's Jehovah's Witnesses. That's no atheists. It's it's anybody and everybody who doesn't know the grace of God, absolutely excellent question for you. And yes, this is your chance to plug anything you got coming up and put a halt to pretty much everything having to do with normal life but what can you share about what's coming down down Road do you have anything planned.

As far as upcoming tours yes select are are excited to say that we will be touring in 2021 we took 2020 off obviously because of the. The covert situation that is impacting our world about work cited that in June will be leaving will be getting on the adventure tour bus and will be traveling throughout the United States for about four months will be going all over the US to I think 40+ states and so just encourage you to go to Adams Road.

Ministry.com our calendars on our website. All of our events are free, all of her music for free. We have all types of free materials you can get there and we will also be bringing my upcoming book passport to heaven on the road with this. So if you want to get one in person. I would love to see you and and be encouraged Micah thank you so much for making the time to spend with us tonight and for your flexibility in your schedule and working it out. We appreciate that fireflies that's a wrap for this episode about a brightness. Feel free to share your thoughts about a brightness Facebook group go listen to Adams Road music is beautiful. It's inspiring and it's free so consider supporting Adams Road ministry work that they do is very important and I know they make a huge impact for the kingdom of God as they tour around the country and especially as they did in the Mormon corridor and I have yet to play for for Latter Day Saints the next week will be bringing your discussion that we had with Matt Wilder he came on the show to discuss what he's doing with Adams Road piano which powerfully combines Scripture with his piano compositions.

Until then, shine bright fireflies. Thank you for tuning into this of the outer brightness podcast. We love to hear from please visit the out of brightness, Facebook, feel free to send us a message that sent a message at appreciate it a delight.

We also have an out of brightness and other episodes also send this out of brightness to hear from you soon, subscribe to the out of brightness podcast on campus cast box cast cast the modify institution. Also you can check out our new YouTube channel. If you like it certainly is a great also connect with Michael just lined up blogs and sometimes Poland as well. Music for the outer brightness podcast is graciously provided by the talented Breanna Flournoy and by Adams Road.

Learn more about Adams Road.

By visiting their ministry page. It Adams Road ministry.com. Stay bright fireflies to show and leave the country will you and a and a will and this is the Truth Network