What About Scripture?, Pt. 4 (Articles of Faith Series)

Sports conducive man shines in the darkness, great that you I focused almost entirely on external evidence, but really like you said it only really confirms the internal attestation of Scripture. If you if we had all the world of the Bible of the New Testament and it contradicted itself. It would matter, right external evidence, it would only show that you have a reliable contradictory text so the internal consistency of being written as you said Michael being written by many prophets over centuries all speaking of the same God is been working his plan. All throughout the history of the world from creation to revelation and glory, we see that all working out being the same God being preached and spoke up that that really that internal consistency in the prophecies fulfilled in Christ. All that is. That's really the course in conjunction with the witness of the Spirit into the heart of the person reading it.

That's really what convinces people and the external evidence I think like you said it just increases the confidence of the saints, but I don't personally based on my my views of sociology levees of salvation.

I don't think that the external evidence alone and convert someone and obviously God has to talking use that evidence God must make. You must still make that word real to that person has to really work in the heart of that person reading the Bible to make it to really witness to them that this is his word that it's correct, it's true on Matthew and you know you can read our small Scripture alone if you want, but the summer you just gave is basically a summary of the book, so you may not need to read the. The internal consistency.

The witness of the Holy Spirit and admin Michael note to your to your experience, not by praise God that W should come to where we are in different ways because wanted to do some some interesting things to do.

Discussing how to bounce off of each other, but she was as I was pointing out earlier when I teased about one that one point that God has brought us to where we are in various ways, and of course the external evidence for me because of the way I have lost my faith in Mormonism, beginning with the book of Mormon as a historical taxed the external evidence to that important but the internal consistency of the book itself and experiences that had with the text of the Bible as I've is God is illumined my mind to see things differently. I've mentioned some in earlier episodes. One I just just came to mind is no Philippians 26 through 11 talks about Jesus and us as the number six specifically says to being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God right and I remember as a latter-day St. I was teaching an elders quorum lesson tonight. I was looking for. You know is as you mentioned you, you did as well.

Michael you were looking for passages in the Bible that supported Mormon doctrine right and and so I was looking for passage is that the lesson that I was teaching was was on no eternal progression and I was looking for passage that from the Bible that would support that right this support this idea that it's not it's not audacious to think that we can become God's right so I grabbed adverse and is no on face value seem to support the position right nuance. Jesus didn't think it was robbery to be in the form of God, and be equal with God. Why does anybody else criticize Latter Day Saints for thinking that in an and in the moment that I was delivering that lesson and using that verse is struck me as I was speaking words of the verses struck me know that's not right.

And I remember going home and looking at that verse in context and reading the rest of what is says about Jesus right but he made himself of no reputation took upon himself the form of a servant and went and was made in the likeness of men like wait a minute, he was all she was not in the likeness of men. So to try to use verse six to argue that men can become God doesn't work right. Some moments like that wherever God was was leading little by little to see the Bible and to see if what it was to take the Mormon filters often allow you to just cut a rhythm written verse out of context and try to make it apply to those those moments as well have brought me to the place of seeing the Bible is reliable. The final question to miss this, like the money question right is limited to come speak to our audience. So for Latter Day Saints. The concept of continuing revelation is of paramount importance in their doctrine and church structure between now prophets and apostles authority to speak God's word today. So as a Bible and the Christian, what would you say little Latter Day Saints, who argues that we need more of God's word. The idea of God speaking anciently and not today would make God quote an absentee landlord who had once been engaged in earthly matters was now preoccupied somewhere else in the universe my quality titles from first, although where you start. I think the first thing anyone was my mind right away is you I think of Scripture as being like a measuring stick right just to judge on truth by what I see the LDS church doing is not only are the lengthening stick on one side by adding new revelation every time his conference, but I also see them shortening the other side because I see the apologists over time trying to disqualify the words of Paul the other testing. Well, Christ did say that a few of the Christ words using the opposite was like well). Christ is on the don't you agree that you know how how is it any different from what you claim there prophets and apostles dothey speak the words of Christ in the know whether by my own voice and the voice of my sermons.

It is the same right. That's the LDS teachings, but the one thing I will probably ask Latter Day Saints curses you believe the parables that Christ gave in the New Testament are still value today and if yes, then they are timeless and I would say the same thing is true of the rest of the Bible as well. I would say that it is it is a living Scripture that we don't need a living prophet because we have Scripture and another thing I like that my corporate citizen of the Bible's the only book that meets you so if the spirit is as American help us understand the Bible is more reading than on the more revelation.

I've asked Latter Day Saints to was the last time you read the book of you know, just throw random New Testament part of the Bible are Book out there on Old Testament one CE.

Often you can have them in my bucket is read that one was a lesson that when it's a long thing. In case you not even reading the Scripture that you do have. So what's the point of getting the Scripture. If you haven't mastered church so those are some thoughts that I have on the answered your question or not. I like I like a method of passing the minimum last mom last on the red Habakkuk was I studied Habakkuk a Bible study shortly after becoming a Christian in the Sunday morning Bible studies we were studying through each of the minor prophets and so Habakkuk was up on the list and I think I probably was surprised that there was a book called Habakkuk that that strategy with the new Matthew will you say to Latter Day Saints and argues that the need more of God's word to go back to something that Michael spoke about early early on when you're discussing us and said you have what is your authority, what you consider to be sure. Just think about those things.

How do you know truth and how do you know it's from God and one argument against causing Christianity as a whole is okay you guys all claim to fossil souls go to her but look at all denominations and all the strife in all the confusion and you're trying to preach on the wrong etc. etc. but there's so many presuppositions there that need to be unraveled.

The need to be deconstructed because first of all, I'm or her Baptist.

I'm not trying to convert every Christian to be covered for Baptist II want people to come to Christ. And if they feel that they read Scripture and particulars that I hold you in my denomination. The agreement they want to come to my church great awesome if they want to go to a church that disagrees with me but they still hold to the Bible's word of God, they believe in Christ alone is our Savior.

The trust in him alone for their salvation and their righteousness before God and have solid preaching there sure go there, that's fine. I'm not trying to win anyone to my denomination. I want to win people to Christ course, not my efforts. I hope that God will use them as a means to bring them to Christ.

But it's not me, it's the work of the spirit as to do that so I can want to do mention that is that were not fighting each other to try to get each other to join each other's denomination, and when you look at a lot of the disagreement in Protestant Christianity look at what their authority is I think honestly the one of the biggest issue is imposing Christianity is that we claim we claim to hold the soul.

Scripture, in actuality, we normally do a very good job at doing and so what is all Scripture it's kind of scene is like well you only need the Bible. That's all you need in your good discount like me and my Bible under the tree and he is going to talk about this because her sucking a Scripture, but that's no muscles, notorious Alaska tour is that the Bible is the soul infallible rule of faith and practice for the church as a soul infallible because we have other authorities that are subordinate to and are fallible there subordinate to Scripture and they are not infallible. So when we talk about the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, the apostles Creed is a three big ones.

The ancient creeds that were accepted by historical Christianity. You can take every one of those phrases and find where you can see that in the Bible. It's not an authority on its own. The only authority those creeds have is if they are in conformance to Scripture. Scripture is the ultimate final soul infallible authority.

That's also Scripture and his we have other authorities have my elders at my church that I submit to the I believe that they do have an authority course if they deviate from Scripture, you know that's kind of neat and they must hold the Scripture. Just like I do and I must follow them as they preach faithfully Scripture so those are things that the really diminished about Latter Day Saints because I hear over and over and over again attacks also Scripture aura saying it's useless and it does make sense to have only the Bible because it really interprets it differently. But that's not what so Scripture means it's important to have a stock of things that creeds and confessions that are historical to go back in time and are pointing to Scripture because I think today that's kind of the view that a lot of Protestants sadly do have is that okay I don't need anybody to tell me what the Bible says I can just read it on my own my own conclusions. And it's good to an extent, in the sense that you can read the Bible and you can come to know Jesus. You can know who God is, you can know that you are a sinner in need of salvation that you are completely cut off from God. In terms of your righteousness that you you need a Savior, but I think it's dangerous when you just say okay when you disregard what everybody said about the Bible before me. That's where you got trust his Russell.

That's where you got LG white Mary Baker Eddy. That's read all these people to said okay the truth was lost.

I'm in a go back and say what it really said what Scripture really taught or I'm in income to bring forth new revelation that fixes all this mess that and fix anything they just cause more problems. So really we need to do is we need to understand we need to read Scripture in light of what others have said before us, just as the reformers did Martin Luther, Calvin Turton. They all were concerned about okay am I interpreting Scripture. Somebody behind me somebody within the church behind me.

Do they have similar views. There were really concerned about this because they didn't want to just come up with something completely off-the-wall brand-new. They were concerned that that they were not just coming up with a brand-new religion.

Since we believe that Christ had build his church. He said in Matthew 16, I will build my church, and he had build his church and its continued since then. So when you have some level of continuity and need to consider what godly men in the past have read about Scripture and so I think most of the issues the people that present Christianity has is not the use of so Scripture aura, but the rejection of it and inserting another authority that is supplemental to possibly superior to Scripture on the case so as wanted to bring that up and as far as single Latter Day Saints. You say it's not enough for that we need more. I would ask you what is it that the Bible doesn't teach that you need to know things and we need to know for certain who is God who is Jesus, who are we wire we hear, how did God create the world where we headed.

What is God's plan for us and how do we know the Lord Jesus in a saving salvific relationship. How can we become united to Christ. All of these things that we absolutely need to know they're all there. We don't need anything else there there in Scripture. You just have to look for if you want to talk less secondary issues like how should our church. The operating you now should be her baptism on adults who profess faith in Christ only or infants of believers also those are all secondary issues because I think you don't need baptism be saved. You can know Christ through faith for the gift of faith in God's grace alone. So the secondary issues there. There are things that Christians are trying to wrap their heads around and we want to interpret Scripture faithfully and consistently to arrive at a an answer that is consistent with Scripture and is glorifying God.

But if we disagree on the things that's okay. We have the unity in the essentials and we talk about that in another episode. Sorry I'm going a little bit longtail nesting so this this phrase absentee landlord. This was spoken at the last general general conference speaking, the Christian God is an absentee landlord who had once been engaged in earthly matters, but was now preoccupied somewhere else in the universe when I want to say about that is just because God is not operating the way that some of us may want him to operate today does not mean that God is not operating or active in the world whatsoever we see, for example, we see God in creation. The 1st to 6 days. God created the universe. He ended that creation. There is a definite time or that creation was supposed to take place and it was post and God is not creating things anymore terms of how we created it in the creation that presented God called profits and made covenants with them, and in many of those covenants were to logical oven point to Christ and fulfilled in Christ.

Those things were fulfilled in Jesus God has got is a plan for everything from the beginning, God did not give a continuous stream of revelation all the way for the beginning there were periods of decades or over hundred years where there were no profits, and so they relied on what had already been given and before Christ, there is about 450 years of no revelation what is the use they had the Scriptures they use those in their in their spiritual life they read the Torah. They they read all the Tanakh. That's the Old Testament they read that in their worship services.

The day there was periods of whether they followed it well or not they had that Scripture and only see the New Testament with Christ. There's that new movement we see every time there something new going on, or some new fulfillment. Christ setting up his church setting up the apostle sending them out through the world to preach the gospel, not only to the Jews and Gentiles. We see God giving tongs and gifts and healings, and those are out in phases.

God planned that out in phases and towards the end of the apostolic age we see less healings we see we see less of these miraculous gifts being operative. This is all planned out by the end of the first century BC revelation and the biblical canon been given is completed with the end of the writings of John with the completion of Canon we have the church now the Scriptures to guide us should do and we still have God acting today. He still operative. He's working in the hearts of believers. He's eliminating our minds and hearts is also to understand Scripture he's giving us understanding he's sanctifying us purifying us from our sins and settings apart from the world. God is definitely active. I don't think that just because there's no profits giving Brandy revelation every day that God is an active ease active just not in that particular fashion so that's basically what I want to say I'm a lot I wish I could condense.

I don't have any dad to you did cover a lot there but it was absolutely wonderful. I I will just say that a man meeting a man would stop following each episode of the other brightness podcast.

You hear the song the cross and Adams wrote Michael Wilder, founding member of that band and the former Latter Day Saints himself often encourages Latter Day Saints to read the Bible with the eyes of a child you heard Matthew Michael and I discussed her experiences with Scripture. While we were still Mormons while we transitioned and now for any Latter Day Saints who may be listening, doubting their belief in Mormonism and wondering if it makes sense to believe the Bible and Jesus, I echo Mike is urging read the Bible with the eyes of the child as if you're seeing it for the first time you heard Michael and me to share some examples of Bible passages that we once read with Mormon filters.

When read in context, do not actually support LDS doctrine can be difficult to set aside those filters means digging into the historical context of the Bible, allowing the Bible to interpret the Bible with the understanding that it is the consistent word of God.

May God bless you in your journey. We thank you for tuning into this episode of the other brightness podcast.

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Learn more about Adams were at www.Adams Road. Read.com is diseased in my system is the Jesus now excited Jesus calls us and she is in no and no being