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EP253: Reconciling Dad the Farmer and Dad the Veteran Pilot, How The Civil War Openly Became about Slavery and Why it Took One Man 7 Years to Get His Car Back

Our American Stories / Lee Habeeb
The Cross Radio
April 7, 2022 3:05 am

EP253: Reconciling Dad the Farmer and Dad the Veteran Pilot, How The Civil War Openly Became about Slavery and Why it Took One Man 7 Years to Get His Car Back

Our American Stories / Lee Habeeb

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April 7, 2022 3:05 am

On this episode of Our American Stories, Iowa listener Joy Neal Kidney shares her father's story. Our regular contributors Jon Elfner and Dr. Kate Masur, author of "Until Justice Be Done," tell the rest of the story that begins with three runaway enslaved people. Tyson Timbs tells us how he found out that old habits do indeed die hard when he was arrested and convicted for selling drugs to undercover cops.

Support the show (https://www.ouramericanstories.com/donate)


Time Codes:

00:00 - Reconciling Dad the Farmer and Dad the Veteran Pilot

10:00 - How The Civil War Openly Became about Slavery

35:00 - Why it Took One Man 7 Years to Get His Car Back

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I'm always upgrading my car because I need to because I want to today custom rims for my ride tomorrow, it might be a new driver side seat cushion and eBay motors.com always has what I need. They got over 122 million car parts all at the right price that's perfect for me because I'm a car guy around two in the morning almost on okay I'm a car fanatic eBay motors. Let's ride dramas you may know me from the recap on LA TV abdominal podcast life as a going to come at you every Tuesday and Thursday will be talking real and unapologetic about all things light and culture and everything in between. From someone who's never quite been listening to life as a gringo on the iHeartRadio app or web, you get podcast brought to you by State Farm like a good neighbor, State Farm is there dramatic pause, a dramatic pause says something without saying anything at all dramatic pause is a go to for podcast news presidents and radio voiceovers.

It makes you look really smart. Even if you're not free to deserve a go to like that like hey do choose life. Comfy good to go to this is Lee Habib and this is our American stories we tell stories about everything here on the show including your story.

Send them tell American stories I come there. Some of our favorites today. We have one of our regular contributors joy new and she's about to share her uncle story. This piece is titled Donald Wilson the humble hero most of the heroes among us are just ordinary people like my uncle Don I know you miss mom's brother who lived way out in Washington state and you like fishing when I was a kid growing on London Iowa farm.

The best part of getting a fat letter from Ambrose was a picture of uncle Don with a big salmon mom's older brother been a commercial fisherman even when he later took a job with the Washington transportation is still hand out with his mom well up the day, every chance he got.

So every fishing season. We get snapshots of them with a huge fish hanging from one hand and a fishing pole in the other breast and faded jeans and a plaid shirt usually invest lots of pockets. Sometimes a U.S. Navy USS Yorktown, although mom rarely mentioned the 4.2 she told us that her brother Don who grew up in the small town of Dexter violent had been a sailor on the famous Yorktown, the one lost during the battle in the ocean and that he had had to tread water for the every years. Uncle Don at Rosewood Drive fact, I went to visit I was unaware of all the other combat survived all the heartache he been through all the complexity of this seemingly ordinary man as teenagers since Gloria and I traveled by train with grandma to the West Coast to visit relatives including on in 1962.

They lived out along the nascent River.

As soon as they learned we were coming. Uncle Don entered a room to their home and indoor bathroom since aunt Rose didn't drive they had only a pickup one foggy day, we joined a crowd of clam diggers and carried our limit. Home to try fried clams and make clam chowder taking them was more fun than eating them for farm girls used to I will beef and pork. Years later I learned that not only had uncle Don been on the historic Yorktown. During the battle of Midway but they need to had to abandon ship twice. He spent an hour in the oily Pacific after Japanese bombs had crippled the ship the next day. The aircraft carrier was listing dead in the water, but still afloat. A few dozen men reported that her chip for salvage attempt one of them was 25-year-old Donald Wilson after doing repairs all morning on a lower level ship clambered up to get for something to eat and alarm. Don jumped up and saw torpedoes in the water speeding writer to ship one slammed into them.

He ran to the fantail and leapt a second time a nearby ship rescued him and other survivors. The next morning, sailors asleep on the deck were nudged awake as the carrier began to sink her battle flags still flying many of them wept as they stood at attention to witness their ship rollover and plunge into the ocean. Don Wilton first joined the Navy with his older brother in 1934 during the Great Depression with no jobs for teenagers, not even for their father. Don stayed in the Navy, and in 1937 became a plank owner on the brand new Yorktown meaning he was a member of the crew was placed in commission I served on her whole life.

Don later wrote ship. He later received a citation signed by Adm. Chester Nimitz for being part of that salvage attempt I'd written to uncle Don and aunt Rose for decades, but after grandma died in getting to read the families were letters I started a correspondence with uncle Don that lasted the rest of his life. I wanted to make sure he had all the metals he was entitled to. He said he didn't want any that he was no hero and wasn't interested in metals.

That is until I learned that was one for that citation. When he finally received it.

He proudly framed all of us. Metals and ribbons.

Uncle Don was also a plank owner on the USS Hancock another aircraft carrier that Hancock was in combat in nearly every major naval battle during those last desperate months of the Pacific war except when out of action for repairs after being attacked by a kamikaze all five Wilson brothers of Dallas County, Iowa served in World War II. The three youngest Danny Junior lost their lives. Two of them in combat their surviving family members never got over the blows of losing these three young including their older brother Don still in the Navy after the war he decided he didn't want to make it a career. After all he was ready for some peace and quiet and efficient pole. No one would suspect that the ordinary man snapshots with the big fish was indeed a hero, one with a poignant history and a special thanks to Jordan your kidney assuring that story. If you have stories about euros for foreign befriended and served this great country. From the stories to our American storage.com.

We love to hear from you and baby are or for the story of uncle Don here on our American story.

If you love the stories we tell about this great country and especially stories of America's rich past. Know that all of our stories about American history and innovation culture and faith brought to us by the great folks place for students study all the things that are beautiful wife all the things in life. If you kick at the Hillsville builder will come to you with your freedom.

Terrific online courses Hillsville.edu to learn more and were back with our American stories Abraham Lincoln's nickname is the great emancipator and a regular contributor John is about to tell a story of how that's not quite the whole story is John was a beautiful spring evening, Virginia the 23rd 1861 Abraham Lincoln had recently been inaugurated by this night in southern states including Virginia seceded from the union scope of the Civil War was still not well understood by most civil war had begun working along the banks of the James River were three men Frank Baker Sheppard Valerie James tells men were finishing their assigned task of building a Confederate artillery battery just south of the James River.

The location called Soules .02 in position was designed to assault union Fort just across the James River four was called Fort Monroe as evening approached Baker Mallory and Townsend decided to abandon the Confederate post across the James River to Fort Monroe traveled the short distance from Soules .4 became fugitives soon.

According to the laws of Virginia Frank Baker Sheppard Valerie James Townsend were slaves did run away with the hopes of finding their freedom lives and casual student of American history would likely expect union soldiers were to recommend after all, the soldiers commander-in-chief was Abraham Lincoln would eventually earn the nickname the great emancipator when the three arrived at Fort Monroe Forge commander, Maj. Gen. Benjamin Butler space with the dilemma should be returning the escapees based on Wiccans public statements about the war general ethos at the beginning of the war was were not here to get involved with slavery. We are here to try to persuade the Confederates to drop their arms and come back into the union structure to place her professor of US history with Western University. She writes about the complexities of the evolution of fantastic new book until justice be done. Research revealed something surprising. US military officers sometimes decided to cooperate with slaveowners and return slaves. Everyone knew that the war was about slavery, so it's not that anyone was disguising that the conflict was about slavery that's true when it was pretty clear about the role slavery in the war. In his first inaugural address, just two months earlier that address use of this long section of our country loosely is right not to be extended to the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended.

This is the only substantial dispute then why would the escapees not be welcomed into union Fort during the Civil War because moments later looking at this I have no purpose directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it currently exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so and I have no information to do so, first we have to remember that it was the Confederacy that declared itself out of the conflict begins with a series of southern states saying that there no longer part of the United States and then creating this thing called the Confederate states of America, which they say is a separate nation but this was something Wiccans steadfastly denied throughout the war. The United States government's position was you cannot secede from the union and if force is necessary to show that you southern states are still in the union. We will use force to prove that the United States is still intact. Lincoln did not want to say that the government was going to attack slavery. This was because we could have a military problem. There were four slave states should not let the so-called border states to join the Confederacy.

It would be devastating for the Sony talk revolution but a causal integrated problems in the war. He was especially worried about the state of Kentucky.

We can express this concern the private letter to his close friends OH Brown Fink to lose Kentucky's new consumers to lose the whole day talking on cannot hold Missouri nor is authentic Maryland. These are all against us job on all hands is too large for us. That's because the Confederate state of Virginia already borders Washington DC Maryland substance capital would be surrounded Confederate states we would as well.

Consent to separation reports, including the surrender of this capital.

This explains why we can make public statements attacking slavery early in the war there is a possibility that when white Kentucky and see that critical mass of that mark I say hey I want to join the Confederacy and continue to fight to preserve slavery so he does a lot of different things in the first year or so of the wards try to satisfy folks in those states.

He says that he's not going to attack slavery. He says this is not a war about slavery, but the Civil War and slavery.

So how could Lincoln be saying at the start of the war had no intention and no power to abolish slavery is important to understand that when we can publicly stated that he had no right to get rid of slavery. She was correct. After all, how can you get rid of slavery when just moments earlier could sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution. Like it or not the Constitution.

Slavery in the states were currently existing.

There's absolutely no doubt that Lincoln closed slavery. The question was under the United States Constitution. What power does the president or the federal government have to abolish slavery. He believed that the federal government did not have the power to abolish slavery in the states where it already existed at the time of his inauguration had been any violence between the union and the seceded states. So as far as Lincoln was concerned the Constitution was still in effect throughout the United States that included the states that had claimed to succeed.

They began with the objective of simply persuading the Confederates to stop what US government was a ridiculous and also treasonous enterprise preserving the union that was Lincoln stated objective at the beginning of the war help keep the focus on preserving the union's military generals developed a surprising practice.

Military officers frequently return escaped slaves to their owners. US military officers sometimes decided to cooperate with slaveowners and return slaves. This really happened and when enslavers came to US officials and said hey this person escaped into your camp. I need them back. The officers would say okay let me go find and that's what happened happened regularly. The United States has not recognized the Confederacy as a separate nation. There is this 1850 fugitive slave act.

Under federal law when escaping slaves across jurisdictions. The slaveowner supposedly has a right to come and get them back and said that's one of the types of claims that the slave owners would have made this mean for bigger Mallory and Townsend three escapees who fled to Fort Monroe, the commander of the Ford Gen. Butler certainly knew Lincoln's position. Butler also knew that if he didn't return the slaves should be sending a message that the US forces were attacking slavery. That was a message. Lincoln was working hard to avoid someone bigger. Mallory and Townsend arrived at the four were taken and consistent with the common practice of returning escapees, Butler may have considered returning when he spoke to the three he learned that he couldn't do that. The reason been installing Canon and Fort Monroe. There was a report written about the conversation and sentence these able-bodied men held as slaves with adult breastworks to transport or store provisions to service cooks and waiters and even to bear arms. Butler knew he could return the three men who would immediately be put back to work installing Canon and Fort Monroe to find a way around Lincoln's constitutional understanding of the property rights of slaveowners decision needed to be made to be made quickly because Confederate major John picked up Carrie was approaching before seeking the return of the escapees then you been listening to John Elfman told the story of the Civil War, a different kind of story. A messy story in a difficult story and one having a lot to do with what could we can actually do at the time, as opposed to what it Lincoln actually want to accomplish what you did know was going to happen more of this remarkable story of the Civil War by John Elfman are here on our American story iHeartRadio and the black affect podcast network are sponsored by better help online therapy to help online therapy a more convenient, affordable and accessible way to try therapy and heavy brown host of the drop in gems podcast podcast about the depth and potential of personal growth in the human spirit all in service to our liberation and internal go to federal help.com/black affect for 10% off your first month. Millions will make Medicare coverage decisions for next year and United healthcare can help you feel confident about your choices for those eligible Medicare annual enrollment runs from October 15 through December 7. If you're working past age 65. You might be able to delay Medicare enrollment.

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There call your local State Farm agent for quote today and were back with our American stories and the story of how three slaves escaping to the unions.

Monroe provided the spark that led Abraham Lincoln earning the nickname the great emancipator plays were traditionally return something slaveowners because the union held at the South was still part of the union until this moment changed everything back to John Elfman with the rest of the store Union Gen. Benjamin Butler, Confederate officer job a top Carrie that outside Fort Monroe, according to report the conversation went something like this. I am informed that three slaves belonging to Col. Mallory have escaped within your lines. What do you mean to do with those escaped slaves. I intend to hold them. Do you mean then to set aside your constitutional obligation to return them. I mean to take Virginia at her word.

I'm under no constitutional obligations to a foreign country which Virginia now claims to be what you say we cannot succeed so you cannot consistently detain the escapee but you say you have seceded so you cannot consistently claim. I shall hold these escapees as contraband of war since they are engaged in the construction of your battery under claim. Does your property with that Carrie was sent away without the escape come to collect and how is Butler able to justify keeping the escapees was relying on something called the international laws of war. Dr. Kate Mazer explains there is a tradition in what are called the international laws of war and one of the mainstream ideas was belligerence her enemies in war can confiscate the property of their enemies. Normally we were generally respect of property rights. But in war time, especially property that's going be used in the war effort. The enemy is allowed to confiscate that property in one of the enslaved legally considered in Virginia property Benjamin Butler at Fort Monroe was thinking about the laws of war and thinking, yeah, if these enslaved people who their owners say their property that I can confiscate them as contraband of war under new national law property was more typically describing things like guns, horses, and military supplies. But what Butler had recognized was that the Confederate military categorized slaves as property and therefore the Southerners themselves had opened up the enslaved confiscation or what Butler had called contraband, not peace time it's wartime and commanders have choices about what they're going to do in the situation Butler with his word. Contraband created a constitutional loophole that permitted him to hold the escapees and upon dismissing caries you may have assumed that was the end of it. This encounter fundamentally change the role of slavery, Civil War the day after Butler refused to return the escapees more escaped slaves approached the entrance of the Fort.

The following day 47 escapees arrived at Fort within two weeks.

Over 500 escaped slaves sought asylum in word the Union army was receiving fugitives in the longer returning begin to spread for long Union soldiers stationed outside the fort were countering escapees who are asking where could we find freedom. Fort Butler by giving asylum to Baker Mallory and Townsend have moved slavery into the political conversation in a way that required the address by Congress and the president was just Fort Monroe with the escapees began. Then, everywhere they go enslaved people start to escape and come to you. So the straight out for Monroe is one really critical very early version of that story but it's really happening everywhere. Members of Lincoln's inner circle the White House recognize just how important Fort Monroe was Lincoln's personal secretaries John Henry and John Nicollet wrote about the event support role. Their biography of like peers with a sense out of this incident. There seems to have grown most sudden and important revolutions in popular thought, which took place during the whole war, Baker, Mallory and Townsend along with Gen. Butler since created the power that Lincoln needed by characterizing the escapees as contraband of war and the growing number of fugitive slaves swelling the union for its force Congress to act, Congress in spring of 1862 passed legislation that says from now on there's going to be no returning after that point it was policy of the government not to return people. Lincoln supported this legislation for signing the bill Congress sent to him prohibiting the return of slaves and setting the stage for his later Emancipation Proclamation of the president who said this on his first day of office. I have no purpose directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states currently exist and up fishing and Emancipation Proclamation.

Two years later set this all persons held as slaves within any state, or designated part of the state. The people shall then be in rebellion against the United States shall be thenceforward, and forever free is because upon his inauguration, the Civil War had not really begun sure seven states had claimed to see Lincoln's inauguration proceeded any violence towards the federal government states that had seceded when the Confederacy fired on Fort Sumter. A month after Lincoln's inauguration.

That action fundamentally change the relationship between the rebels and the federal government going to proceed cautiously with his public statements about slavery in the early days of the war. As the years passed he acted more and more aggressively to get rid of slavery. Use a version of Butler's art military necessity justify the Emancipation Proclamation for Monroe is it just puts down a marker that things are going to be different and that this is not simply a contest between white Northerners and Southerners over staining it prove to everyone that black people were not going to sit around and wait emancipated. So, how much credit does Lincoln deserve for the abolition of slavery. There is no doubt. Lincoln did a lot to end slavery and the Emancipation Proclamation was a key example of that pushing for the 13th amendment, which constitutionally abolished slavery was a great example of that on how slavery really ended. During the Civil War. It's actually a lot more complicated than just the president suddenly deciding in his wisdom to waive his wand and an issue Emancipation Proclamation and so we need to take into consideration if we want to really understand the history what enslaved people themselves were doing, how they made themselves a factor in the war.

What Congress was doing and what the US Armed Forces were doing and how all of these different parties came together to destroy slavery during the course of this week. It is without a masterful politician so would consider his nickname the great emancipator.

There's no denying that we can solve the riddle of the federal government could order that slaves be permanently free and in so doing nearly 4 million slaves were freed over the course of the Civil War took lesser-known people like Frank Baker Sheppard Mallory and James Townsend with the courage to escape the cleverness of Gen. Benjamin Butler find a way to refuse the return took the hundreds later thousands of enslaved to escape to you. Pressure Congress to commanders from returning escapees took the lives of over 300,000 soldiers to carry out yet. Lincoln did a lot a lot of help along the way and a special thanks to John Elfman for the storytelling on that piece and he's a history teacher in Illinois under so many great history teachers in this country.

They may not have PhD's and they may not be writing fancy books, but we just got to sit in John Elfman's classroom and what a privilege that is special thanks also to Kate Mazer. Her book until justice be done. America's first civil rights movement the revolution to reconstruction your local bookstore or the usual suspects and buy a copy in my goodness, what a story about three courageous slaves in a courageous general found a way to do it was right to do what was in the end the beginning of the end of slavery. Great emancipator is how the Civil War openly became about slavery. That story here on our American stores iHeartRadio and the black affect podcast network are sponsored by better help online therapy to help online therapy a more convenient, affordable and accessible way to try therapy and heavy brown host of the chopping gems podcast podcast about the depth and potential of personal growth and the human spirit all in service to our liberation and internal go to better help.com/black affect for 10% off your first month. Millions will make Medicare coverage decisions for next year and United healthcare can help you feel confident about your choices for those eligible Medicare annual enrollment runs from October 15 through December 7. If you're working past age 65. You might be able to delay Medicare enrollment.

Depending on your employer coverage. It can seem confusing, but it doesn't have to be this at UHC Medicare health plan's.com to learn more United healthcare helping people live healthier lives. I know everything there is to know about running a coffee shop for small business insurance. I need my State Farm agent make sure my business days piping hot and I think cool and confident. The small business owners to help you best. State Farm is in your corner and on like that neighbor there. Call your local State Farm agent for quote today and we returned to our American stories, and now it's time for another rule of law story, which is a part of war series.

We showcase what happens in the absence and presence of the rule of law in our lives. Things like property rights that we just take for granted courts and an independent judiciary separation of powers which gives meaning to that independence of the judiciary and contract rights, things that other countries will good luck and by the way, that rule of law extends to all of us good and bad in between peers around Monty Montgomery with a story of a man who violated what would seem to be a clear-cut law and the long-winded case that he became wrapped up in as a result, in 2012 Tyson Tams found himself on the receiving end of a decent amount of cash.

Following the death of his father he probably bought a nice car and a year later drove out to sell some drugs undercover cop peers Ilia so with the rest of the story so he was caught and he was charged with small-scale drug offense. He admitted that he did commit a crime, but when he drove to the transaction he was driving his Land Rover SUV, which, according to estimates was worth something like tween 40 and $42,000 to the state of Indiana.

See the Land Rover true asset forfeiture. But what's asset forfeiture and why did law enforcement decide to leave Tyson without his wheels over a drug offense. Asset forfeiture is a practice whereby government can confiscate property with using a crime such as a car or in some cases even something as major as a house, and often they can do it even if the owner of the property was never convicted of any crime. And indeed, even if he or she was never charged for it so you get examples like police will stop someone's car, perhaps for a minor traffic violation. Dando asked to search the car and then they find some money in the car say are transporting cash and some people knew the police might decide, it seems likely that this money was acquired in a drug transaction or some kind of other illegal transaction. They take the car potentially in the money as well. Similarly, if for instance you let your car to a friend and then the friend was suspected of driving it to buy illegal drug, then your car could be confiscated even though you may not even have known that your friend with you to use it for that purpose. And sometimes that can happen even if the friend himself never got charged anything and there are many, many examples like this. They vary somewhat by state, but the basic idea is that the government can seize property that they think might have been using a crime in many cases.

In most state they don't have to prove that it actually happened. They certainly don't have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Indeed, the procedures in many states are such that once they see their property for asset forfeiture awareness and effect falls on you to prove that you're innocent or if the property wasn't using the crime and often the cost of getting the property back is actually more valuable than the property itself. So if they see something that's worth 500,000 or even two or $3000 as is often the case in order to litigate the issue and get it back. Even if her successful you may have to pay a lawyer more money then the property is worth, and it may take you many weeks for many months even get a hearing about it, much less get the property back now at this point you may be thinking guy buys expensive car guy drives the car to sell drugs to undercover cops guy gets punished cares about his car.

This seems just the issue here isn't the taking of the car is that there was no due process to take it in law enforcement can sell assets seized via forfeiture and added to the budget and if you want your stuff back. You have to take them to court, using money, you probably don't have. There is no accountability. There is no rule of law.

So Tyson went to court and Tyson teams represented by the Institute for Justice. They argued that this seizure violated the excessive fines clause of the eighth amendment.

The eighth amendment is best known for forgetting cruel and usual punishment, but it also forbids excessive fines and thus began a game of pinball Tyson Tams and the Institute for Justice between court systems. This case is not usual, even by the standards of federal Supreme Court cases that not only did it reach the federal Supreme Court but also there are also three separate Indiana state Supreme Court decisions and there are not many Supreme Court cases historically with her like that.

That's extremely unusual in the case raised two important issues that the Supreme Court had never previously resolved. One is whether the excessive fines clause even applies to state and local governments at all, as opposed to just the federal government over a long period of time. The Supreme Court has gradually decided that nearly every other part of the Bill of Rights, with a few exceptions applies to state and local governments and not just the federal government never decided this respect to the excessive fines clause so when the case initially reached the state Supreme Court of Indiana, the state Supreme Court said well this doesn't apply to the states or if it does, we, the Supreme Court of Indiana can't say that it does only to federal Supreme Court can make that decision.

The other big issue is. Let's assume the excessive fines clause does apply to state governments you asset forfeiture is qualifies excessive fines may be asked for Patricia Stark finds it ANOTHER thing state of Indiana argued in this case. So when the case got to the Supreme Court. The court actually showed a rare degree of unanimity all nine justices, both liberal and conservative concluded that the clause does in fact apply to state governments and local governments as well as the federal government everybody. I think expected that outcome would have been very surprising if the court said no.

This is the one part of the Bill of Rights that doesn't apply against the states. Secondly, they also ruled that at least some asset forfeiture is can indeed be fines, excessive fines and therefore if they're big enough they could be struck down as excessive and they rejected the argument that forfeiture is just dark finds it all because the state did argued that this is just an attempt to seize property we use for legal purposes is not really a punishment of the person who committed the offense, or maybe even many cases didn't commit any offense I need a court ruled correctly that fines and forfeitures are sufficiently similar that many if not all asset forfeitures had in fact qualifies fines but the court left open the issue of what is it exactly that makes an asset forfeiture excessive and this issue has ended up in the lower courts, with the result that even the specific case of Tyson. Tim actually made it back to the Indiana Supreme Court two more times.

One time, the Indiana Supreme Court set up a task for how they think the excessiveness of the fine should be determined and then a second case where even though the test that they set up. I think it was clear the Tyson Tim should win under that test because, among other things, the value of the Land Rover is about four times the maximum fine you could get for a criminal conviction Indiana for the type of illegal drug transaction that he attempted but nonetheless the state of Indiana. Much like inspectors you fair in Les Miserables. They continued their single-minded pursuit of the Land Rover. They didn't want to give it up so they continue litigate the case so it went back to the state Supreme Court yet again the third time. The case went to the Indiana state Supreme Court.

In that instance, the Indiana state Supreme Court finally ruled that Tyson Tams, who in fact get his Land Rover back.

So after a legal battle that lasted some seven years Tyson teams did in fact recovered.

Land Rover is now happily driving it out. Most cases don't go through that outline the process or are that costly. I don't know how much money IJ spent litigating this case, but it is probably in the several hundreds of thousands of dollars or even more obvious he was more than the value of the Land Rover. Even though the Land Rover is fairly expensive and valuable vehicle. As I said before it's worth about $40,000.said the typical asset forfeiture probably involves amounts in the range of property worth $500,000 and even the lawyers fees from more conventional case will easily exceed that. That's actually a more general problem we have in this country that legal services for small-scale losses of this kind very often outstrip what you can gain from getting back what you lost in the teams case it's pretty obvious the Tyson teams could not have one.

This case without getting excellent pro bono representation be into for Justice, which represented him for free from start to finish and they have course solely interested in the particular vehicle at stake in this case they wanted to set a general precedent and a great job on the production by Monty Montgomery and a special thanks to Ilya Solomon for telling us the story is a law professor at George Mason University pick out his book free to move voting migration and political freedom, confinement and Amazon.com Tyson James case another installment in our great rule after the last two years of being at home a lot. No one wants to spend the day inside doing laundry.

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