The Fine Art of Bartering

Due to the cold 19 pandemic were protecting our team today and keeping them home. Today's money was law was prerecorded so phone lines aren't open and it's older than money, but works just as well.

It's not the absorbed bars of gold and it certainly not midpoint. It's an ancient practice that buys goods and services with no medium of exchange is the fine art of margarine. We all have skills and unneeded items that others value. Have you ever thought about creating yours or ordering for things financial planner and teacher Rob West has some pointers for doing it right then we take some calls from all across the country.

However, today's edition of the program is not why are more than welcome to moneywise to Rob. I guess just today with all the program but otherwise I like it, although I haven't checked to see if there's any copyright or trademark issues. But seriously, I'm curious, have you ever bartered or traded something with someone else, yet without money I have.

I I installed aquariums in dentist offices in exchange for including my my teeth worked on now like it was a long time ago, but I was sort of that there was a kind of a sideline business for a while and I did that and it worked and nothing tragic ever happened, but I did wake. I did wake up some nights hoping that a 500 gallon aquarium didn't burst forth in the middle of the night. You know in the room and some dentists office, but as far as I know this number. I say well what I like it, you know, I haven't done much of the way of bartering except maybe well this is more neighborly but you know back in South Florida after the hurricane would come through my neighbor had a generator and we swap some ice for the ability to plug into the generator. I think maybe that's is more neighborly than anything else, but I like the idea bartering and I'm glad were going to talk about it today or maybe we could barter our voices someday for a I don't know an acre of corn so I got yeah whatever it takes right bushel like corn. Here's the thing. It's a very natural way to exchange goods and services and like you pointed out the top. Stephen actually predates currency that we've all probably better position to do it at one time or another. Make a trade for some kind without using money and were talking about today is becoming more intentional about it, and perhaps starting with myself bartering to make sure we get the best value for whatever it is we're treating Excel. It does make sense when it comes to value, however, understand that the IRS put some value in bartering and this would apply to this has to be considered. Right. That's exactly right and were not recommending bartering is a way to avoid paying taxes. You can go to IRS.gov GOP for more information on their policies regarding bartering but even with taxes. The bartering can still be a great way to improve your family's financial situation and if you do it well. You can save a lot of money. Okay, so how exactly do we do this you will first of all, the Internet has greatly facilitated bartering. It's now possible to make bartered deals without leaving home. And there are two ways to do that first through barter exchanges where items are assigned points you can sell items or services for points and then redeem them for things you want lots of businesses make use of these is called Beta be bartering essentially and there's also a simple one on one barter transaction opportunity as well. A lot of this is done through websites like Craigslist.

That's what our listeners would probably be most familiar with. But no matter how you do it.

It's important to set the terms upfront to avoid misunderstanding, so the first thing you do is determine the monetary value of your item or service compared to what the other person is offering. The goal is to make an even exchange. For example, let's say you want to trade a bicycle in your cyclists and you value that Stephen $100. Now you want a piano lesson someone is offering well that there are only $20 apiece so to make the deal fair. You have to trade the bike for five lessons and that way both parties feel like to get a fair deal right so set the price up front, but how exactly do you do that well by negotiating first determine what you think is the fair range of value for your item or service and start negotiating at the high-end. You can always go down and then you can yet because you can't go back up.

Also make sure both parties understand exactly what is being traded is the bicycling shape of the air in the tires piano lessons for 1/2 hour full hour getting it all that mail okay well let's chat some more about this back the wise live. Rob West will be right back after this. Please the financial wealth you leave behind could be the best thing that ever happened to your loved ones or the worst in splitting hairs, giving your money and things to your children without ruining their lives. Ron blue explains why it's important to make these decisions now, instead of forcing your heirs to do it later. Splitting hairs will foster a real appreciation for the precious resources that God has entrusted to you, and it's available. Click the start button moneywise live.org if you need investing guidance, you probably want help that's grounded in God's word.

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Please ignore that phone number.

Today's broadcast is a reprise addition of the program, but I think the upcoming information will help you and bless you in the wise steward of what God's given you our topic of discussion for the first few minutes. Here is the subject of bartering. I'm not sure we've ever discussed this on the program. Perhaps you bartered something in the past and that's worked out well for you. Let us know about that would love to hear so we were talking about negotiating in how to set up the deal.

If you will. So once we've got the details hammered out a bicycle for weekly piano lessons is all this just done with a word-of-mouth handshake that can well that's probably not a good idea unless your bartering partner or someone you know very well in trust. Otherwise, it's better to have the agreement put down in writing and email actually works fine for that. It provides a record in case there's confusion later and that's the key.

Okay, well, anything else we should watch for, well, a couple of things first. Be careful bartering for services that require licensing or another certification. So if you're bartering for legal services.

Make sure the person is actually a lawyer. The same holds true for medical services. Make sure the person is a qualified practitioner. One other thing Steve we touched on this at the top and I want to emphasize this again, remember to be fair and honest with everyone you deal with because your witness for Christ. We know proverb certainly speaks to this on the scales and balances belong to the Lord all the weights in the bagger of his making the idea there is that we want to make sure we're doing something's fair and using this as a way to bless both parties so it's truly win-win. But if you can do that and you're safe in doing it, meaning your careful and I know you've warned our listeners before when using things like Craigslist always meet in a public place. Probably best not to come to your home, things like that but it really can work for you financially. That's right, is certainly a creative way to stretch your dollars and to use the talents that God's given you in the interests you might have. But as you pointed out Rob really should be a win-win both people should come away feeling good about what's occurred. You don't have to continue to do it. If you are really wild about how it worked out, but you give it a try.

Be prayerful about it. And remember, in the entire relationship in situation you want to be a witness for Christ and how you conduct yourself, your honesty and the kind of work that you supply the kind of product or service that you supply. So again, if you've done any bartering and it's worked out for you.

We love to chat with you. Let's begin by going to the Chicago area and Sarah what's on your mind. You and Dr. because I got a conical bodywork down on car and he did mention that on now I don't really know that I think that he could help people who couldn't afford medical care they needed making sure they got. I explained how well it's great to see a perfect example of how you can bless a neighbor and build relationships and community and still get things done at the same time and perhaps save a little bit of money so great example of exactly what were talking about. Here's thanks. Here we appreciate your call today unless you think so much and it's also an opportunity. Frankly, to make friends and to get to know your neighbors a bit better, which these days is not something that happens all that readily like it used to.

In decades past. Well that's exactly right. And the Internet has made a lot of these transactions much more convenient. As we said earlier, though really important to remember this is not a way to get out of paying taxes that are due a lot of barter exchanges that require you to issue a form 1090 9B and thus are you going to want to read up just to make sure that you are in fact doing this properly and you can go to the IRS.gov. To do that and I think Steve Bill in Indianapolis is another example for us. Hey Bill how you doing today and what your barter story. Bill shared that now sense for a root canal know what the incredible well your teeth today.

Bill will keep flossing and we hope you'll call you and we appreciate you, thank you very much Nirav you mentioned the rest could one barter with the IRS.

The viruses we want to thousand dollars. I say no, but I've got a cow. Are you in need of a root canal after talking to the IRS yet surround the dog. Should I apologize, why not get audited. Boy was more by the way, lumbar Illinois hey Ellen what's on your mind today I share that family members while I look like a dealership about financing. They told me they couldn't quote me a rate until the end they did do a credit report score 791. Me practically a done deal.

I return the vehicle and borrowing when I actually went to sign.

I found an interest rate was 11.74 meet at the time when I go to score absolutely return the vehicle so I know people refinance their houses in the middle alone will do something like that with a car loan and how should I go about it now to inquire as to what the decision was that led to the rate that was assigned to this particular loan why it was so high the vehicle at the 2012 yes a little bit older and and obviously lenders are going to have varying rates starting with your credit rating.

But then they'll also look at what is the amount your borrowing and then what is in fact the age of the vehicle. You should be able to do better than that, Alan.

With that kind of credit score. You may get dinged a little bit for the age of the car, but I think you could still improve your situation if you go to bank rate.com bank rate.com you can find the best rates in your area. There's a lot of online lenders. Now that specialize in auto loans. One will be light stream even the traditional banks. I know Bank of America right now their best rate is 4.3%, so you should be able to find something in the 4% range. Unless there's some particular aspect of this vehicle that's going to push it up but is still even if your couple points above what would be the most attractive rates that are available today that you're still you know, perhaps nearly half of what you're paying right now at almost 12%.

So I would definitely look at a refi. They happen all the time and and then once you get that rate down. Let's try to pay a little bit extra if you can eat your get that paid off even quicker but I would definitely check that out.

See if you can improve your situation.

Thank you. Down like that that you called today listening to moneywise live Rob West taking your questions on anything financial at 805 five 7000. Anyways I will try to help understand and establish God's plan for your life come back. John is buying a home is the largest most nerve-racking purchase. Most of us ever make. It doesn't help that you're entering a maze of unfamiliar words and confusing options that can leave you intimidated frustrated and afraid. You can take advantage of navigating the mortgage mates by Dale Vermillion help you clear up the confusion on rack your nerves and make the best mortgage decisions possible with confidence navigating the mortgage maze available when you click the start button moneywise live.org you know not to do with your money and I like to note ways to trim the budget and when you get those answers much more subscribing to the moneywise that will expert articles and get your subscription free money. My magazine in my life that the Lord here's a quick way to themselves. What else can keep it that you even know you have a contents contents because against it to me only aware of the content to last in retrospect comes afterwards testimony afterwards is your guilty your guilty one will be proposed. The cross of Christ no one mine contents all Bible study 30 central no problem watch the latest episode for television program moneywise live find us on the web moneywise.org today we're not lives so please don't stick around. Lots of good information moneywise live with her for just a few minutes they were talking about section a part of the economy that you may not of given a lot of thought, but apparently some people have.

That's the subject that's the topic of bartering using your skills and goods, to acquire some skills or goods or something you need.

It's essentially horsetrading. What used to be called horsetrading and it can be done. It can be done well easily, but the IRS wants their cot, so you have to be careful of that I we got a bunch of these bartering calls Roberts blast through a few of them quickly. John you somewhere in the Midwest and you work for a major orchestras what my notes say here through you mind me asking what instrument you play while I don't I'm part of the core. I managed to bring the volunteer fantastic great, will tell us about your bartering experiences. I have an arrangement with my that in my chiropractor on the part of my compensation package is that I get comp tickets for each of the show and I give them the choice of the concerts that they want to come today. Both loved simply, so if they choose those ticket then they credit my account with them for the value of the ticket okay yeah like how long you been doing this job. I would say about eight years so it obviously it must be working well for all parties involved. It helps a lot. We got a few pet and the creditors come in handy in the event of the chiropractor a few times in early one that's great that's great. Will jump glad that you called today, we appreciate that that's encouraging. Thanks very much. Let's go to Cleveland Ohio next hey Kathy, what's your barter experience. Well every Christmas eve.

My brother opens up his great hobby that single brother and nine kids in the family thinks in that general Cleveland area and want to have Christmas at our home for one reason or another, so I will go and clean his home for Christmas eve. He opened up his home for all of the clinical time, probably about 30 family and friends. People who don't have a place to go for Christmas and that we get all sparkly clean people back and forth.

I think you're giving people ideas in our listening audience today swapping cleaning for a host home for Christmas. I like it.

Thanks for go the day.

We appreciate it. Steve, you mentioned horsetrading.

A moment ago. David is gone from Lebanon then you tell us your bartering story well my daughter so you local blacksmith that will also probably write Bay Valley horsemen are for later but a lot about you like to David. Whatever works for you yeah David that is great and we have finished your call things very very much. Just when I thought I'd heard it all in my as a career something like this pops up by West Blockton, Alabama hey Bonnie, can you can you top that's what what's your bartering situation. I well that I watch it says they'll portrait clicking and lot between important that when you cannot just children, grand bank at the time not taking that real day really wonderful man and helpful. Ali never grants car like not letting you into thinking chopping when dialing Bonnie, thank you very much for that to encouraging call today.

We do appreciate it almost out of time here as soon was on the line when I can have the time to get to. I'm afraid she's calling from Princeton Illinois wants to tell us about bartering babysitting services and in the neighborhood and that's probably something that a lot of people do and we would encourage that you are so proud of you.

We sure have. Yeah, we would then pick a night where friends would watch our kids.

We go out and then we'd swap the next week.

Great way, especially as a young family to make sure you still get a date night to all of you called in today with those purging interesting stories. This is moneywise live with Rob last take a break.

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This is a reminder that today's program is a real broadcasts of the number. Please don't call send us an email at questions moneywise.Margie thanks for joining us today. We certainly do appreciate that because this is a calling program and if you weren't there. Well we wouldn't have anyone to talk to. So thanks very much, Fort Lauderdale, Florida and thanks for your patience. How can we help about my daughter is about 25 years old. I mean I just want to get unlucky sure she should get life insurance one with my okay is and we appreciate your call. She married no child okay all right you're talking specifically about life insurance yeah okay well here's the first question to ask is really is life insurance necessary at this point given that the member the purpose for life insurance is to make sure that there is provision.

Therefore, family members, or dependents that would be impacted with the loss of an income or an added expense that the death of the loved one. So for instance when she's married. Let's say she and her husband are both working. Let's say their lifestyle is dependent upon that.

Her income goes away if something happens to her. If she dies and then the life insurance kicks in and the opposite would be true for her husband to be able to fund that portion of income that's lost to bill to take care of the needs of the family and let's say they have children and those types of things.

Or if you have a stay-at-home spouse, and if that spouse were to die, then there would be an expense that would be burdensome for the family with that's where life insurance could kick in. So I think at this point in her life if she is focused on just getting started in her career and in thinking about that. She doesn't have anybody. This dependent upon her, then you know she doesn't need to be thinking about life insurance right now. She needs be thinking about building her financial foundation building up her emergency fund.

Perhaps starting a retirement account trying to save 10 to 15% getting into the practice of giving those types of things once there is a need for insurance because there is somebody depending on others children or she gets married, whatever it might be. Then we start to think about what type of insurance and that's where I would recommend for most people term insurance where basically you buy pure insurance where the cost is very low and you can buy the amount of insurance you need so you might hear a rule of thumb or somebody would say well you should have 10 to 12 times your annual salary and so let's say some is making 75,000 year you would want somewhere between 750,000 million dollars. Well, for a 25-year-old $750,000 term policy for 20 years might be $275 a year for 25 years might be $350 year. Not a lot to speak of relatively and gives you adequate coverage in the event of her death, but unless there's some sort of the history of medical challenges or problems in the family. You know then you know there's not necessarily an immediate need for it right now the only reason you might consider it, is that for some reason you have reason to believe she might not be able to qualify down the road because of family history that might be present doesn't make sense. Good, but when it's time I would look at term insurance and I would have her do her saving especially long-term savings, and something like a matched 401(k) or an IRA particular Roth IRA.

Things like that as opposed to trying to link the savings with the insurance and something like a permanent whole life policy and we appreciate your call today.

Thank you very much to Miami, Florida Juliet, what you question for Rob. I write my and 1977 now, right now I constantly rented a rapid rate. Juliet is this coming from a realtor or is it coming from the broker meaning.

This is somebody who works for a broker or real estate company or are you getting contacted by somebody who actually is the broker and perhaps owns the company. Do you know no more people, one okay is there something unusual about your houses. It is really desirable location is very old. I mean, is there something that would cause people really want to make sure they were first in line are top of mind for you when when it comes time to sell out right. It's really interesting and unfortunately you know reason I'm just so curious as you don't you don't hear that relatively clearly realtors will do mailings from time to time limits something in your mailbox. They might even call you just to say if you're thinking of selling. Obviously this is a strong real estate market right now.

In most parts of the country and they want to be first in line, but to the point where you would feel like you're being harassed is just unusual so I'd probably start him and I suspect you've Artie done this, I'd start by contacting the broker for each of the companies that are pursuing you just to say please don't contact me again.

I feel like this is going beyond what would just be normal solicitation and see if you can't try to get ahead of that there can't be that many companies in your area and you can also take advantage of some of the opt out list in the do not call list to see if that would help to alleviate some of the national companies that are contacting you, but I think that's probably the best step. I mean if it got to the point where you genuinely feel like you are being harassed. You could call the Federal Trade Commission or go on their website and and report the companies… I'd start by just trying to get the broker on the phone for each of the real estate companies represented from these solicitations and just explain the situation and ask if they would mind intervening because this is getting to the point where you just uncomfortable with that but I'm really sorry to hear that but free to call us back at some point let us know if you're able to resolve. Let's define some terms. If we can quickly right so there's the Smith Realty Company in her area but you're suggesting that there's a broker that works with every realtor as well and that's what she should contact. How would she find that person, you know, if you go on the website of the real estate company. Every real estate agent has to be under the supervision of a broker and that they have a particular type of license.

A broker's license and that would be the person who's ultimately responsible for that officer that real estate company and so I think getting to that person to say beyond somebody was just out there is the salesperson soliciting for new business to say here's my situation feel like this is beyond what would be the normal course of business and I just need assets very sorry to hear about this job much and it's not something we hear about very often we wish you the best with that thing very much I don't forget to check us out online. You'll find this up moneywise live.org moneywise live.org past radio program. So there budget templates a number of free resources.

Check it out. I'm here to help you understand God's purpose for you like the eyes of a layman, you know there are things I choose not to do is be a stumbling block to others what I'm told by indulging Christians of their living under grace. I think of the fruit inspector.

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Mastering your money by Ron blue available when you click the start button moneywise live.org money and life run on the same track. Unfortunately, sometimes it seems like your money is heading in a different direction from your goal in never enough three keys to financial contentment. Author Ron blue helps you to break down all your financial options to a basic floor and then shows you how to keep it all chugging along in the right direction on the same track never enough three keys to financial contentment available when you click the store button moneywise live.org a nice place had a great coffee anyway like I was saying, his family moved across the street was about a year ago right from the start. All here is going next play Of the sun right can't do anything right. According to dad will never be a ballplayer like that. Johnny said hello nice guy and I've noticed every Sunday they all piled the car and head off to church. That's where the going well. Guy comes over my house a couple weeks ago to invite us to go with yeah yeah you know is Jesus can really make a difference in your life like he has in mind while there's a difference. Don't get there is work pretty good living out the Christian life. Just remember the people around you there watching. They know what it's supposed to look like a thought broadcast.

Thanks so much for being with us today will stick around and enjoy moneywise live if you enjoy the program come away learning something Lori being entertained, being blessed by the hearing of God's word. Tell a friend let them know as well, Hollywood, Florida.

While you have been a very patient man Sir what's in your mind and you know what I find what you will back you got it might what is very encouraging. You from Fort Lauderdale Wally.

So next time I get down there. Maybe we'll have to have a couple coffee.

Yeah, I think it might what program you recommended that you all call you can download my heart. So what I want. I did download it the right, and then I checked my credit call and I look at the details.

But my question is based on my quality of offspring makeready CAD which can help with my credit call. So my question is pick one out bills like one of you heal Better what you think is causing the score to be low is the lack of credit or have you had some challenges in your credit history yet. I want to think about it Bob you guys want weight gain and obvious that if I got credit CAD I ate that God I'm not you know maybe that will help all but I want to know if you got all the credit God from the long night out with 20 yeah you know it doesn't really matter to me. I mean, I think the benefit of the secured card is if you felt like it would be too tempting for you to have an unsecured card like what you're describing with capital one and that might cause you if you got into a binder. There is something you really wanted that you might just be tempted to go out and spend beyond what you have the resources for then that would give you a reason to say okay I'm going use the secured card because there is a kind of a ceiling there because you're not able to borrow more than what's on deposit but you know all things being equal, if you're okay.

Having an unsecured card it doesn't really matter which one you choose. I think the key is just make sure that you don't have a monthly fee and if the bank with the secured card is going to charge a monthly fee that I would pass on that you know you are going to put yourself in a better position in terms of the potential to raise your score by having an automatic charge every month that is going to show some activity you use it only for a budgeted item or items you pay that off every month. Your credit utilization will be very low and you will show some account activity. It will also add a revolving account to your credit report. Remember 15% of your credit score is made up of the types of accounts you have and if all you have right now is an installment account, which is what a student loan is by adding a revolving account, i.e. credit card that's going to add another type of credit. It's also going to show that you're actively paying as an on-time pay or all of those things are good. You may not take your score up as much as you'd like. But over time it will improve your score because you're doing the right things but in terms of whether to go with unsecured or secured doesn't matter to me. I think the decision comes down to which one is no fee and my okay having access to an unsecured card and if if I'm not comfortable with that and I would go for the secured card.

Thank you so all right. Wally got thank you for calling back. Thank you. Only this continue on Crown point, Indiana and Roxanne are you trying to start would like to start a budget or something like that. Yeah I have like little while. Well, Roxanne. The good news about a spending plan or budget is it doesn't matter how much you have, it's really just a plan for your money. So whatever you have. If you get if you have anything coming in.

You need to have a plan for it in a budget is just a way for you to give every dollar a name and what I mean by that is unless you have a plan for your money it's gonna very easily get away from you and so what I would do is start by capturing all of your expenses and you can use one of our budget templates of moneywise live.org or you can use a smart phone app like mint.com or every dollar or envelopes.

I like all three of those and the goal is to take 30 days and capture every expense every time.

Nothing you do this, but every time you go to Starbucks if you enjoy coffee all of your utility payments. If you have rented a car payment and giving you're doing all that capture every dime and put it into a category in those categories are already gonna be there for you. Once you feel like you've got everything and by the way, don't forget to get those nonrecurring charges. If you have a charge like an insurance payment that happens every six months.

Something like that and then you want to compare that to the income that you have and I realize there's not a lot there but whatever you have.

You want to make sure that it balances in the key. There is if it doesn't, you gotta figure out how do we cut back. How do we eliminate some expenses to make sure this balances then once you have the budget in place, Roxana. It's no good unless you actually use that meaning use that as a guide on a monthly basis to really govern your spending and that's where a system to control the flow of money is critical that may be something as simple as what we call the envelope system where you literally have envelopes for every spending category you cash your paycheck and you put the money in each of the envelopes and during the month you grab the envelope when you need it and you only spend until the money is gone and then you stop or you could use something a little more high tech if you will wear you a link to something like mint.com to your checking account or your debit card and you actually capture those transactions electronically. Doesn't matter to me. The key is that you got the written plan and then you got a system for controlling the flow of money. So that's really where I would go next me leave you with one additional thought here and that is that if you've never done this before it could really be helpful to you to have somebody to walk alongside you as you get this set up will that's where moneywise coaches come in. There's no cost. If you go to moneywise live.org and click on click on connect with the coach of this is somebody who will help you every step of the way to really get set up with your spending plan. I think you'll be blessed by the rep you mentioned something about if you don't have a lot of money when you're putting together your budget. In reality, you don't need a lot of money when you're putting together a budget. In fact, if you don't have much money you probably need a budget more than the next guy running.

I couldn't agree more. Steve absolutely all right Roxanne, we hope that helps you. We hope you have a great budgeting year in 2019. Thanks so much about an email or two of this comes from Bruce dear Rob, I'm 24 and starting school this summer.

I have $5000 in savings of $12,000 loan on my car, and excellent credit. Should I start investing and if so how, yeah, great question. You know I would focus right now. Bruce getting ready to start school just getting started as an adult that you really focus on getting that savings up so you want to have three months minimum of expenses and savings and an online savings account and then let's really focus on paying down this loan on the car. Once you feel like all of that's in place you got your three months in place worth of emergency savings and you're making good progress on the loan. I'm assuming you're working while you're going to school then it would be good to start thinking about trying to put 10% of each paycheck into either 401(k). If you have one if not into a Roth IRA. But I think staying focused on building that emergency fund and really focused on paying down debt right now is probably to serve you most effectively a rate I think we have time for Cindy's email she says a representative from my bank is very keen on me purchasing a fixed annuity for five years. When I did some research@bankrate.com I found a five year CD from an online bank at a better rate and its FDIC insured is a fixed annuity better than a CD.

Well, yeah, if you can get the same rate on a five year CD than you can for an annuity. Both are going to lock up your money and Juergen have far less in the way of fees and expenses with the CD than you would be annuity and of the empty interest rate is comparable. I would absolutely go with the CD because at the end of the five years you get your money back with the interest, whereas you know the annuity depending on what type of annuity. As you may not.

So I think of the better lower cost option here. Cindy would be the CD at the same rate and if you'd like to send a brief email question to rob the addressees questions@moneywise.org okay questions@moneywise.og and if you are thinking of maybe buying your first home this year. Maybe refinancing the home you have or may be purchasing some rental property before you make any mortgage decisions.

Be sure that you understand all the fine print and all the options that are available for you today.

I'm thinking of Dale Vermillion's book and navigating the mortgage Mays Dale is a regular guest here his book provide you all the information of the areas that I just mentioned, and much much more.

There are chapters on how to apply for mortgage various types of mortgage financing tax concerns best payment options top 10 mortgage traps to avoid and what to do if you don't qualify for mortgage. It's a great book called navigating the mortgage Mays by Dale Vermillion and you'll find it when you visit our website which is moneywise live.org moneywise live a large school to the bottom of the page. This program moneywise live is a partnership between Moody radio and moneywise mediate my thanks to our production staff today doing wonderful work. Thanks for being with us today. Have a great remainder of your day, then join us again next