Why Everyone Needs an Estate Plan

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My best friend is blessed with three kids in a big house all the kids have their own rooms, but recently life in a bagel house is been different. In an effort to solve kid boredom. My friend, but when those massive blue tarps and created a full room tent in the spare bedroom. They put each of the kids mattresses under the tent in the shape of a T and every night for now, five weeks the kids have slept with their heads, feet apart and set of rooms apart, it's Ryan from United faith mortgage and when I see a home. I can help with the interest rates, escrows, and trying to help listeners pay the least amount possible.

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Equal housing lender not licensed in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Massachusetts, North Dakota, South Dakota and Utah and what sort of legacy we leave for your family. God tells us what he expects in Proverbs 20 verse seven the righteous who walks in his integrity, blessed are his children. After my arrival as the legacy we leave behind entails more than a will in the financial inheritance. You leave your heirs today.

David wills from the National Christian foundation joins us to talk about why we all need in the state that your calls at 800-525-7000 800-525-7000. This is moneywise live as today's yesterday as David, the National Christian foundation and a good friend. He's been walking alongside families on their giving journeys for many years so he's the perfect guide to unpack why we all need in the state planned and what it means to leave a lasting legacy. David, great to have you with us today.

Thanks, Rob.

It's great to be here, David. Most people are aware of what's involved with a will.

Even though it's something they tend to put off as long as possible. But what exactly is an estate plan because it really is so much more than just drawing up a will. While some have said rather than the state plan is the process of taking one's wealth and seeing it turn into fees and commissions from the Kaiser's scope but actually an estate plan is really primarily a process to help us think through how were going to pass on what it is that God has entrusted to us when were going yeah yeah will that's exactly right. And that's why I'm so excited to dive into this topic.

Now, many of our listeners may think they just don't need an estate plan, or perhaps even think much about their legacy. But why is this really critical.

Well leave a legacy for the most common things that we talked about families that we serve itself. It's top of mind to anyone that has blessed with anything, frankly, but most people think about legacy with just the financial aspect in mind, but it's really far more than that and his people get into the process of estate planning. They start to see that and everybody wants to be remembered for having lived a generous life and so legacy goes much deeper than just the financial aspect of things passing on, thanks to others is not at some point is not going to be an option for any of us. We are going to reach that day, so it's a matter of kind of framework that I use: who, what and when who's going to benefit what will they receive and when will they receive it yet really important as a believer. We realize this is the last stewardship decision.

We will make and so we want to be well-planned and we certainly want to have intentionality, but you said, it's much more than just the financial want to talk about that. How should families and individuals. David think about their legacy. If it's more than well for water, those other areas yeah backup just quickly and say that I think the process that comes with estate planning actually is just as important during life as it is when we pass away. Ecclesiastes 711 to 12 says wisdom like an inheritance is a good thing in benefits those who see the sun. Wisdom is a shelter, and money is a shelter, but the advantage of wisdom is this wisdom preserves the life of its possessor. So we want to pass on wisdom before we pass on wealth and the question you're really asking me is the what? The who the what what what is it that were passing on and I tend to speak in terms of three different transferable C if you will. Things that we actually pass on and I'll define them as a spiritual capital character capital and financial capital is usually the last one that we think about first, but we really don't think about the other two first spiritual capital is just transferring the gospel to those that are gonna come behind us pure and simple. Often speak to grandparents on a military grandparents listing, but the grandparents have a unique position to share their spiritual capital with their grandchildren because their relationship is different than the parents. We all know and so out I really encourage grandparents to make sure that all their grandkids know their story.

Their story of faith because it will soak in to the grandkids. I love it.

Spiritual capital character capital and financial capital will continue to walk through that and talk about how you can be intentional in leaving a legacy as you think about only the resources God has entrusted to you, but the life in the story that you want to pass down two generations. David wills of the National Christian foundation is our guest today much more to come on why everyone needs an estate plan. Stay with us will be right back to back to moneywise live on Rob West today with me, David wills in the National Christian foundation were talking about leaving the legacy and estate plans. David just before the break you were talking about really thinking about our legacy in terms of transferable capital spiritual capital character capital and financial capital. You made the point that so often we start with the financial but really we need to begin with the spiritual capital. Think about how were passing down of faith to the next generation and you said story is really a big part of that talk about the importance of data and any additional insights on how folks can be intentional and passing down their family story. Certainly Rob most people when they think about estate planning they think transactional they think mechanical, but really a really well done estate plan is really the story that you're telling to those that are coming behind you and families. Some somebody this much better than others, but it's it's the ability to wisely pass on material things, needs to be wrapped in a story recently I was in a family meeting is an example of this kind of dovetail with the character capital side of things where the patriarch for the first time. Explained to his even his wife but is also his children and even some grandchildren why he had the work ethic that he did never ever heard the stories that he told of his childhood became very emotional and so that wrapped a kind of cloaked all of the mechanical and transactional in a very personal light and it's very meaningful.

That's just an example, the love that it really could make a profound impact on the next generation as they then steward the resources that have been passed down in the understand how and why it was created and in the work ethic behind that let's move on to character capital. This perhaps is one of those capitals will transfer that we may not have thought of and yet is critical. Why is this so important yet really encourage matriarchs patriarch so families to really think about what is the character of our family. When people look at our family. They see some character and what are the key ones that are really important to our family just enough for my own personal site. My wife and I we can. We hope for three things that we route we repeatedly hope for with our kids that number one that they work diligently live simply and give generously.

So those are three character capital traits being diligent, being frugal, being generous, and so we decided we want that to be an important part of our family story. So that's what character capital is all about. And of course financial capitals.

Third one and it's it's it's third because I think it's it's that's in the third place of the capitals but it's obviously very very important and you know you know money and our stuff. The skylight fire to keep the fireplace.

It works really well to put in your lap and he can really burn you said it does take some real thought to process these things and God when we pass on these capitals both during life and after we pass away, so it's simply a process.

This was exactly right. And we can model this and when it comes to the next generation that's critical we can model diligent work we can model a life of simplicity, we can also model generosity and to the extent were not just giving our financial resources is death, but were doing it now allows the kids to get involved in that process right David absolutely that's that that's a key part, because it use the work process. That's a clutch award close to story, so we are living a story were living a process and I tell you the first time that our children hear about these things about our stuff about our money about our desires for them. It should not be after will go yet should be.

While were living the that's exactly right. And even I think this really does change the narrative for our listeners because so often we think well estate plan. That's not something that applies to me. And yet, as you're describing the capital that we need to be intentional in transferring this applies to everyone doesn't absolutely does the and I don't want I will make sure that in the process of not diminishing the end of the mechanical parts of an estate plan because they really, really important, but it's in context of is that that answer your question. Sure does absolutely nowhere. Have you seen this put into practice any other stories or examples come to mind. While there are lots of stories about people who do a good job in and doing an estate plan and lots of stories about people that do a bad job of this and we often hear about in the news it just a couple years ago we we we heard about Aretha Franklin passing away.

For example, and she had no estate plan, which is kind of hard to imagine and if we were part of her family. My guess is there is still chaos going on.

To this day.

2+ years later because she had no estate plan. And that's that's not it gets. She wants to be remembered for being a generous person and is not generous to not leave instructions like that. Another star who did the exact opposite is is Paul new is one of my favorite is the start of my favorite movie and he passed away over 10 years ago and he did something that was kind of extraordinary.

He left his company Newman's own to a charity not to be sold but to continue to generate capital to give away so reminiscing the spouse is very old. Now he has lots of kids and even to this day they are still involved, very involved in the legacy that he left behind. The way he did it. He's a great story. Yeah that's exactly right. And I love that you, as we think about this. We want to think about what is our legacy and what we want to leave behind and what are those values we want to pass down because that's really gonna frame this conversation. Perhaps an entirely different way than you ever considered David, let's talk about the role of the National Christian foundation and how in CF can come alongside families to help them think about their legacy and actually implement much of what you're describing. Talk about the road and CF will enter Christian foundation. You know were primarily focused on the Hal of giving of helping people to giving strategies to bring tools to bear the can help them be a wise stewards.

There's three questions every giver asks why should I be generous. How do I do that.

Where should I give so that how question that's in the middle. It's so easily dovetails into the whole thing a family legacy and even estate planning. It involves issues of finish lines and all of those things that come with lead leading a generous life and being a generous giver. David, where can folks go to explore more about crafting their legacy of what you're saying is resonating and they wanted to connect step well I wish I would recommend that the first resource that they should consider is a like-minded financial advisor. Thank you.

That's the best resource that you can have and the king of advisors can help with that side of things really duty to God through this process we really patent but very few people should do this alone so that we must first resource and of course National Christian foundation. We have a section on her website called the library. It has resources and stories as well people to watch stories of how people have processed this issue of legacy and their story and also some information on some of even mechanical ways even think through a list of really good questions to process as they're going through this excellent book. David, I know you've helped our listeners today really think perhaps differently about their estate plan and really legacy which is so key as we think about what we want to leave behind to the next generation.

Thanks for stopping by today my friend nodded greatly with David Wells is president emeritus of the National Christian foundation.

You can learn more about in CF and in CF giving.com/anywise your calls or next.

800-525-7000 back to anywise, lives with us today will be taking your calls and questions in just a moment applying the truth of God's word to your financial life today.

Whatever area you have in mind. We'd love to help you tackle it.

Here's the number 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000 great to have my friend David Wells from the National Christian foundation, along with us today if you'd like to contact the folks at in CF you can do that in CF giving.com, you know, a well-planned intentional strategy for your giving and your legacy, your estate plan can make all the difference in it in CF. Their heart is to help generous people like you create a giving strategy based on biblical principles, so you can be more faithful, more generous and give wisely and they love to start that conversation with you today again in CF giving.com and what you may not realize for many of you have been listening or who had previously listened to Larry Burket many years ago.

Larry was one of the founders of NCF. The National Christian foundation there doing incredible work in Jesus name. And I know that love to serve you. All right, working to get to your calls's next again the number is 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. Let's start in Illinois. Karen what's on your mind today to the lady that answered the phone. I get been dealing with the impact we can't plan an estate or it can't beat that God it acted like my husband think that's like you know thinking of someone dying or leaving heat that I could talk about it and I don't know how to talk to him about it or if I bring it up all what he think that when I die, you know, like, you know, stuff like that even though he's very healthy were up and eight were older were retired and you know just I don't know how to approach it as well. I can certainly understand that in you know for many folks, this whole area of finance in general is one that the people shy away from.

Just because you know, depending upon generations and how money was handled. Growing up how your parents handled money, whether or not it was talked about and often times with the Boomer generation and before that to this topic was off-limits for many couples certainly didn't talk about money with the kids very often either. And so I think you know this is an area that can be really challenging, idiotic, a couple of things here.

First of all I would just feel in this whole area of money really as you begin to talk about God owning it all in the fact that you all are stewards of God's resources. Your that's the beginning point in that realization and recognition can really be a game changer in my view, because it places you then and this responsibility of being found faithful in managing God's money, and every stewardship decision and keep in mind Karen.

The last stewardship decision. You and your husband will make is where is this money going to go what legacy are you leaving you there's only three places you can leave your money to the government to errors or whoever you might want to pass it onto in charity or ministry, and so being well-planned in that decision is critical, and then along with that are a whole host of other issues, including naming a healthcare Sarah get somebody who can make decisions on your or his behalf.

If you're incapacitated having a living will. Having a durable power of attorney.

You know those types of things really are critical.

And yes they can seem morbid and yet as stewards of God's resources and somebody who just wants to be empowered to be able to make those decisions in advance so that your wishes and his wishes can be carried out appropriately know that really is the key.

So I think in terms of how you approach this number one. I pray you had a time and ask the Lord to help them to be receptive to the conversation. I think timing is essential. You certainly don't want to bring up sensitive subjects in the middle of a crisis but I think beyond that just beginning this conversation to say it all up as stewards of God's money. I want to be sure that were well-planned and I want to be sure that our wishes are able to be carried out no matter what's going to happen even though that may be decades down the road if the Lord Terry's and we live a long time so it's not about anybody's imminent death.

It's just about being found faithful and responsible.

As a steward, I think the other thing that can really help here. Karen is 1/3 party. You, whether that's a competent financial advisor, preferably somebody who understands God's wisdom and principles from his word in this area or an estate planning attorney, but just having somebody there who can walk alongside you, prompting the various questions so you're not the one asking the questions, but this professional is I think will really go a long way toward getting all of the issues on the table and doing it in a way that's productive. There's not any finger-pointing and nobody saying you know what are you thinking about you. Why are you asking me this question know it's 1/3 party bringing these issues up because at the end of the day what we recognize as these are critical issues that I think we all need to be thinking about. Even though we may not want to so I think I would approach it from a prayer standpoint. From a timing standpoint and then from a perhaps a third-party standpoint in terms of somebody else coming to the table to help raise these issues so they can be addressed and that you and he have peace of mind to know that no matter how long you live and we don't know when our next breath is going to come right but it you may live a long time but you'll have the peace of mind to know that these issues have been addressed, doesn't make sense to how I like the part of the third-party. I think that that would be a good idea that I haven't tried it for their headway so you want to connect with a certified kingdom advisor in your area you could do that@ourwebsitemoneywiselive.org just click find the CK. This will be a competent professional who also is been specially trained in the biblically wise financial advice. You could also ask, that's a professional for referral to a godly estate planning attorney.

You can also call your local church and just say can you give me a couple of names of church members who are estate planners and the start that way but I think that could go a long way. Perhaps helping you to connect. We appreciate your love to hear from you today with your questions as estate planning. Perhaps it's debt giving vesting retirement lifestyle. Whatever's on your mind. 800-525-7000 Morehead moneywise line at the intersection of faith and finance. This is moneywise line we want to know God's part as it relates to managing his money. We recognize God is the therefore where the manager steward of his resources, then money becomes a tool to accomplish his purposes and that changes everything we hold it loosely and we give it generously and I love what David will said earlier in this broadcast. We should also live simply and I think if we do those things that aligns our hearts with God's because he's the ultimate giver.

So when were giving were calibrated I believe to the heart of the father and everything then begins to fall in line. Now, does that mean you'll always have more than you need.

No, not necessarily were to go through different seasons member. The apostle Paul set up learn to be in times of need. In times of plenty of learn what it means to be content. So that's a learned behavior and in the Christian life where her on a journey, and at some points were going to be down in the valley and were reminded every step of the way. Especially at those times that God is our provider and were to trust him and he's faithful in his promises are true regardless of our circumstances. And here's the reality friends. We have an abundance without the first dollar he's given us everything he said will never leave us or forsake us.

He's given us his son to pay the penalty for our sins so we could be reconciled to him by placing our trust in Jesus is our salvation.

And as our Savior.

You know that alone is enough, but then beyond that were entrusted with this responsibility to be stewards to be found faithful of God's resources and that's what we want to do on this program. Each and every day take the counsel of Scripture. The 2350 versus yes, you heard me right and apply them to what's going on in your financial life as you save given provide for your family and pay off the debt you have and think about the future and get the kids through college. We will apply God's wisdom to all of that, here's the number we got some lines open 800-525-7000. It's 800-525-7000.

Let's go back to the phone Chicago Illinois Arlene what's on your mind today hi I have one child and she's 35 years. So we have a pretty good relationship and I will not do I need to know everything that I have a certain go toward what were doing, but I still need to make an estate plan. Yeah, you know, I think it is important to probably meet with godly estate planning attorney who will ask you a number of questions.

Perhaps some you haven't thought of. Yes, your situation is simple so probably a simple will will do, but you certainly need to have one in place and updated periodically as things change in your financial life still want to ask you whether you want to leave. Perhaps a part of what you have to your church or charity. In addition to your adult daughter and whether or not you need a trust. Probably not but feel there are some things to consider their what you can do to streamline the probate process. So again, even though your situation is quite simple. I think it is always beneficial to sit with somebody who understands a counsel Scripture obviously is competent in this area of estate planning and can make sure that everything is in order to reflect your wishes as you make this last stewardship decision on how you'll handle God's resources entrusted to you at your death at the same time, Arlene.

You could deal with the other issues that would also be under the purview of an estate planning attorney had mentioned them earlier that would be things like a healthcare surrogate someone to step in and make healthcare decisions of your incapacitated living will, where you're able to define your wishes at end of life, a durable power of attorney.

Somebody needs to make non-medical decisions on your behalf of your incapacitated things like that. The just make sure you're well-planned as you think about handling God's resources and that season so I think you can still benefit from a visiting with an estate planning attorney who could walk you through those ask you some simple questions and then make sure everything is up-to-date if you'd like to find a godly estate planning attorney in your area. You can always connect with a certified kingdom advisor at our website and ask for referral. Just go to moneywise live.org moneywise live.org and then click find the CK. We appreciate your call.

Let's go to Post Falls, Idaho. Janet, your next on the program. Go ahead hi what I have done is I have designated my daughter is inheriting everything that she happened to be deceased. I also started out selected three organization and they said that each organization will get one third were she not to be there. Yes, yes, and so this is done through a beneficiary's election on various accounts like bank accounts or retirement plans or support yeah so the only thing you would need to do their Janet. In addition to perhaps some of the other things that I mentioned other documents and legal instrument you want perhaps to have in place is to make sure that you have a will up-to-date because those beneficiary designations are good for those particular accounts where you've made those designations, but the will is going to catch everything else. And so you want to make sure you have a will that's up-to-date that's in force that deal can be go there to govern through the probate process. Anything that falls outside of one of those accounts were you elected the beneficiary.

Sounds like your have you.

Certainly a great start.

You've thought through this as to how you wanted handled, but I just make sure you have the other pieces in place as well that go along with it. We appreciate your call today a pack here in Phoenix Arizona. How can we help you today. I yeah well I would just say at the outset that not everyone is required to file an income tax return each year.

Generally, if your total income for the year doesn't exceed certain thresholds and you don't need to file a federal tax return the amount of income you can earn before requiring you being required to file depends on your type of income your age and your filing status guilt. What I'm hearing, though based on what you just described is that you would owe some tax yellow generally if you're single and you earn less than the standard deduction. You don't need to file but that's only 12,400 so what you're describing to me in terms of your Social Security benefits plus these other income sources that you have sound like to me that it's at least worth looking into. So what I do pad is reach out to a competence CPA or accountant in your area you could look for one who's a certified kingdom advisor on our website. You could ask a friend or family member, contact your church for referral but just let this professional look over your situation understand what income sources you have and if in fact you should have been filing previously that can all be cleaned up and cleared up and you want to do that sooner rather than later because if there is an amount that was owed from prior years.

You want to make sure that you get a payment plan set up for you at least get that caught up because there's interest and penalties that would have been crewing. I'm not saying you automatically should have filed or there's tax due when you least want to know that. And from what I'm hearing, there's reason to at least consider that so I'd reach out to a CPA or accountant in your area.

Let's get a visit there show them all the information and they'll tell you exactly.

We appreciate you listening and calling today. This is moneywise live we apply God's word in your financial advice. Have you checked out the moneywise out. If not, it's the best digital envelope system out there, plus or moneywise live community and are discovered to have the best content in Christian financial find it on your app store Apple App Store Google play right back to moneywise live on Rob last along with us today. Well the end of April is upon us, which is the means.

It's a great time for me to remind you that moneywise media is listener supported and it's your support that allows us to share God's financial wisdom every day. And as we approach month-end. We could certainly use your assistance to continue to do what we do as we push toward meeting our budget for April so if you prayerfully consider a gift would certainly be grateful once you do just that over to moneywise live.org, click the donate button you can give one time. Perhaps you want to become a monthly partner, whatever that looks like if this ministry is been a blessing to you, either through the app or on the web are moneywise coaches were this broadcast we be grateful for your financial partnership again moneywise live.org just click the donate button. We have time for a few more calls.

So we got some lines open. Here's the number 800-525-7000. I'm also going to stay after for just a few minutes today and can take a few extra calls, so don't hesitate to call right now 800-525-7000. Let's go to Kent, Ohio, surely how can we assist you today about how well we are allowed to my directly by wondering if you think that idea you know it's essentially a pooled income fund set up by a funeral home where a person transfers property to cover future funeral and burial costs and allows you to pay those in advance and it's can certainly spare survivors a lot of difficult decisions in a very difficult season. So I think from that standpoint, you know, that's a good thing. I think you know you need to understand what expenses would be covered so you know it can include a whole host of expenses and you want to understand that it allows one of the benefits is allows for any relative or other person, or even the funeral home not just immediate family members to make funeral arrangements if necessary and it can be a gift to the family, the other only downsides I would say is if it's up to purchase from a privately owned funeral home and that funeral home goes into bankruptcy or let's say some funds were mismanaged. Not saying they were necessarily wood but would be, but that's certainly possible, then you money spent on prepaid funeral needs can be lost at that point and so that's one of the downsides in the generally don't transfer from state to state.

So if you purchase a funeral trust in one statement live in another when you die. Funds may not transfer between funeral homes, others also some Medicaid and tax implications there that you need to understand. So these are you note not frequently used in terms of the tool for planning. So I would just make sure you understand exactly what the you've purchased or you're considering purchasing.

Perhaps talk to your financial advisor about it before you make the decision a great resource and website surely to get more information and do a bit more due diligence is funerals.org that's the consumer funeral alliance and they'll give you a number of alternatives for prepaying your funeral and some that you find there. You may actually think are a bit more attractive. So I would just do a bit more due diligence before you make the final decision. Again, funerals.org can be a great resource for you are a let's head to Chicago, Illinois Oscar how can we assist you today sir. Calling and we all ate small mom-and-pop shop. It in to combat soccer a lot like business and I meet someone calling also is because of that, that the company is a corporation does not have to step because when I opened a business I use all my credit but that is suspect right now because of my working out income. I don't have a personal income. So what I did what most topic of pandemic spatter I did I call it the crate starts and asked to settle and they told me that he has to be a process where you have to stop making the payments which will affect your credit and the prophets spoke to go outside this practice I added note this is there some way when I click transparently that because I accompany it had it that under my name it and and that EPA so I'd like to know what the possibility of possibly settlement with all the great if it if there some weight to transfer. I probably ate a great line of credit out LeBlanc yes well so the debt that you have. Currently Oscar is personal in your name correct it's not in the business name okay yeah so you're going to have to handle that. Personally, I mean, it doesn't mean you can build business credit it's gonna take some time to build that and you know, just as with the personal credit strong business credit you know is obviously helpful in getting lower insurance premiums are interest rates and also help you get approved for release or business loan or business line of credit and so you want to start by checking your business credit establish your credit which you know again can take some time, but by incorporating you know that would certainly help to ensure that your personal or business identities are separate. You want to get a federal employer ID number open a business bank account if you don't have one dedicated business phone line, you could register with Dun & Bradstreet and get a DU and S number which will help, and then even applying for a business credit card. All of these things, and as of course you work with your vendors that report payments and paying them on time are paying them early overtime is going to establish your business credit.

In the meantime obviously need to take care of this and I don't ever advise you stopping payments for the purposes of settlement, even though yes you might ghetto be able to settle for much less, maybe get a 10 or 20 $0.30 on the dollar. It's gonna destroy your grade in the process and so I'd rather you work with these lenders to get this paid out through the normal methods you know even if you have to go into a credit counseling program or something like that.

So I would just continue to move directly toward them and try to negotiate either a payment plan that works for you or a settlement. But let me ask you, have you looked into the bill payment protection program or payroll protection program. The PPP I did it only 7500 S. without public, I see okay very good so you've taken full advantage of that. Well, I would. I would look at this is held on credit cards or what type of debt is yet to credit credit card, an independent compilation is at the Corporation okay great, but that the credit card is in your name.

Personally correct okay so I would look into credit counseling. Our friends@christiancreditcounselors.org could be a great resource for you. Oscar as you look to get this payback will pay back 80% faster though, get the interest rates down.

That would at least keep you current so you don't go into default and treasure credit Christian credit counselors.org and then I'd work on those steps that I mentioned to begin to build your business credit at the same time. We appreciate your call today sir, but let's head to Bob in Manteno, Illinois, Bob, how can we assist you call on alerts. I got a really good friend. She guided to make sure Jim cannot use for years.

He talked me into this because of the hold zero tax bucket geology at the other end when it comes time to retire but I also believe very much of Mr. Ramsey and I follow his prevention training program could be a great trigger program to the end and he said Ron Ron Ron comes alerts run run run back to my attention. I will life years or so my wife and I have actually inducted 25 or $30,000 into this letter. I understand the whole premise. You know I'm getting any stars not in My Social Security at that, but I just want your K-9 unit if it's really smart guy, but they both are absolutely outstanding. What is your opinion and should I just liquidate by myself at night 15 or 20 year term policy like branches and district my buckler and you yeah yeah well I'm somewhere in the middle. Love Davies is actually a good personal friend. But the idea here behind the letter is which stands for life insurance, retirement plan is that you know for folks who have too much income to contribute to a Roth or they want to be able to put more away. There's no contribution limits. So, if you buy it with a large enough death benefit and this is going to get a little technical and you make a deal.

Not a modified endowment contract. They can be very effective for generating tax-free free income reason I'm you know prefer. This is not my first choice by any means is that they gather a lot of fees and commissions built into these things in a very complicated and most people just don't understand them, and again you're mixing insurance and investing and Dave doesn't like that. I'm not a big fan of that either. So you know you typically will do better by separating them now depending upon your situation. They can be used very effectively and I'm sure your buddy was the insurance salesman can show you all kinds of illustrations as to why that is. So I would just make sure that you you understand exactly what you're getting into what has to be done to maintain this contract in a proper way so that it will result in the intended outcome, which is that tax-free income and that you know why you're doing it versus a more vanilla flavored approach which would be my typical advice and what you're saying Dave is recommending which would be just get term insurance to cover your needs get as much is you need to fully offset that risk for your loved ones and then save save save and things that you can understand and explain to your brother-in-law or your neighbor, and I do it for a long period of time and you typically will come out well, but I wouldn't say no, never. I probably wouldn't say run run run in the right situation.

It can be effective.

Hopefully that's open to you Bob hey thanks Ray along with us today moneywise live is a partnership between Moody radio and moneywise media let me say thank you to my team today.

Amy Rios, Deb Solomon, Jim Henry and Eric Tidwell come back and join us tomorrow as we apply God's truth to your financial life establish