Birth of a Faith-based Mutual Fund

This is Doug Hastings, VP of Moody radio and were thankful for support from our listeners, and businesses like United faith mortgage mortgage commercials are rarely exciting. So to make it slightly more interesting. Here my nieces to do it for me. Interest rates continue to drop like my sister's baby teeth, uncle Larry and Stu last year it was rates are boring. Talk historically low this year is even more boring. Talk historically lower than the previous point talk historically low sounds boring for so many listeners who just wanted to deal with refinancing right now could feel the amount I will make have gotten that some borrowers could patiently save hundreds monthly and tens of thousands over the life of the loan and if you didn't put 20% down before somebody ends up having to pay PMI gave uncle Brian I sent we are United faith mortgage United faith mortgage is a DBA of United mortgage Corp. 25 Millville Park Rd., Millville, NY license mortgage banker for licensing information, go to an MLS consumer access.org corporate MLS number 1330.

Equal housing lender not licensed in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Massachusetts, North Dakota, South Dakota and Utah. Most Christians will tell you they don't want to invest in companies that profited from things like tobacco well the hall and abortion, and many people take great pains to avoid them. But is that all there is. Avoiding certain stocks is way to align our investment will heart today.

Rob West speaks with Jason where story calls from all three. However, more birds of a faith based right here Rob Jason Meyer was cofounder and managing partner of Eventide, an underwriter of moneywise and today he has a truly inspiring story for well you sure does work in a look at this birth of a mutual fund through his story a really unlikely set of experiences that resulted in yes of faith-based mutual fund Jason so delighted to have you back with us on moneywise.

Jason and recent programs we've talked about one approach to faith-based investing. That is, those with a conviction to really confront companies involved in disreputable activities through ownership and even through shareholder meetings and shareholder engagement and clearly there's a place for that. If that's your conviction, but today we want to talk about another approach to faith-based investing and do it through a special way through your story of Eventide you had this incredible experience that I'd love for you to share with our listeners and I think it will be a great way for us to learn about this growing area of investing called faith-based investing. As we look at it through your stories to tell us how you first came to investing wall going college I was a graduate student at Harvard University.

When I meeting with group of people that went on to start Eventide quitting school and streamlining about my personal history here got involved.

The joke around eventide office started a business or to the group of Harvard. I started a worm farm in the seventh grade every worm farm needs are.

I tell us about this is how did you end up connecting with this group.

Jason after moving in on campus. I learned that my dormitory with the Christian mutual shock of finding one another and he invited me to church but he warned me that wasn't sure typical church. This was a small house church gathering in someone's apartment off campus. So what was that like well I learned was a unique church there were a few other but the church was remarkably diverse, so multiethnic, white, Nigerian, Latino, Asian, Indian, African-American, etc. multigenerational, young and old. It was rich and poor. We have local missionaries that were being supported by the local church in terms of the gathering itself happy marathon church services that would began late morning, evening, it began with the Lord's supper, but not the wind. It was real beautiful meal experience in communion. We will talk together.

There was a time for each person to share what God has laid on her heart, whatever that meant a lot to us and grant you when you come together each one has a solemn word of encouragement Revelation try to practice with broad participation a message from the picture and time for prayer and raw accountability, and afterword a lingering time of fellowship unlike anything ever experienced before. It's incredible story toward investing how the world was a neutral company born out of this house church crazy right after joining the church in gathering with for a while. I learned that a couple of the members were beginning to prayerfully consider starting a business together and I joined on those discussions. The goal is really too big and to invent a business that would solve some big problem for the church at large and many different ideas thrown around some more ministry, more entrepreneurial article mutual fund company talking with Jason Meyer today of Eventide asset management will come back to hear more of this story right after this happened with us today. I moneywise live your hostess Rob last time Steve Moore also joining us special guest Jason finding out more about Jason and we heard in the past finding out the history in the background and how tied got it stuck. Well it's incredible story Jason you're a graduate student at Harvard, you start attending this house church with some believers that you meet at Harvard and you all come up with this idea of really making an impact in the world through investing. In fact, the idea that rises to the surface. Among these entrepreneurial believers is starting a faith-based mutual fund incredible tell us more about what you all had planned yet. The reason mutual fund came out one of the guys have been struggling to find a mutual fund investment for himself that really reflected his Christian values and beliefs. He looked around at typical mutual funds and couldn't bring himself to invest because he knew he did up owning tobacco company for casinos have pornography revenues are being tangled in abortion things like that can bring himself to an and this is a person of just really strong integrity search and found nothing that met criteria so unbelievably he had actually started this do-it-yourself approach to investing, rather than about the typical mutual fund. The compromise with value so he really was picking stocks for himself. It's not the good company out there that he hadn't found a mutual fund investment vehicle that was really looking for the faith compass. He basically said to you think there are other people out there in the world who feel similarly convicted about the importance of having their money align with their values. You think that we could turn this into an investment product that others would want to participate and so Eventide was born was born out of a strong sense of conviction and conscience and really you mentioned that there were certain kinds of businesses that you sought to avoid because of faith reasons, but talk to us about the companies you were looking to actively invest in to make an impact in the world heard the approach was much more than avoiding a list of these problem areas and then doing our best to pick profitable companies from what was left but soon.

God sent someone along to expand our vision of what truly typical and nothing should look like one Sunday comes to the house church we started making plans for Eventide at this point and he overheard our conversation, he was struck by a particular phrase we use a quote Christian mutual fund and interject anything on II know what the word Christian means. I know it mutual fund means you have any idea what they mean when you put those words together so we explained that her vision was for a mutual fund that according to the local values we understood that that would involve really two steps. Step one.

Eliminate companies that were involved in various categories. Think I mentioned, then apply conventional financial tool to determine the most attractive investment among the remaining companies are thought well that the start but it falls well short of what it would really mean to invest according to biblical value. We were so shocked well if you want to invest in alignment with God's vision. You really need a more complete theology of business you need to know what God intends for you in the world really had no business participate in God's original plan and that idea that business practice. Well can actually be in alignment with God's heart and vision and really even help restore the world was a revelation for us and from that point forward that idea becomes the bedrock of our investing philosophy, incredible story, and in God's providence.

Jason, this person just happened to visit the church one day as I write yet.

So this person had never been to a house church before in his life.

He just decided to Google house church in Boston shows up crazy. So you know he he he gets there he experienced businessperson in the story better who has felt a call on his life from God to instruct the church about God's purposes for business there couldn't have been a more perfect person to come our way and you begin to teach us about God's great intentions are good practice a bit more because this is such a big idea for us as believers to think about how God created us and how were supposed to be used by him to impact the world. And this is obviously the approach you took that shape everything you did moving forward to expound on that Wilberforce question, but suffice it to say that we had arrived open now to the power of business to create value and really even blessing for the world before we only had part of the picture we have the negative side, avoiding companies without dishonor God but then we began to develop the other part of the picture. The positive side, seeking out and embracing all work genuinely well aligned with God's heart.

I like this verse in Romans chapter 12.

Let love be without hypocrisy of what is evil. Cling to what it could mean for love to be without hypocrisy or stated positively to have integrity.

Two things required people cling to what is good. We only had half of it pouring what is evil, what we learned is the other half of integrity, seeking out embracing really clinging to the world and so we began about really have much time to seeking out and bracing companies that we felt were creating blessing as we did to avoiding the companies that we had deep reservations about so this really radically altered our perspective we first got started our tagline with Beth without compromise the negative side today. It's investing that makes the world rejoice the same careful avoidance is still there but her larger business to press on and find companies that are creating significant but think of the world and now I think the result is much closer to her original vision something truly worthy the church for the sons and daughters of God.

It's incredible story of love as we begin to wrap up today for you to take just a moment and explain practice and explain practically. What's this and explain practically what this looks like investing to make the world rejoice. Gibson brought examples of what that might include sure it really began with the positive, trying to identify the big picture investment means that you really feel are kind of supporting culture and civilization that bring glory and honor to God, and there are some that are very high impact kind of thing think like biotechnology.

For example, with hopefully the eradication of disease down the things that we may not typically think of it high-impact, but are nevertheless are you creating things like shipping logistics for evolution.

The companies are involved in the transition from on premise technology to cloud-based computing. The next stage of transportation so vehicle electrification advanced driver assistance systems things like that. The themes that we categorized under three big heading develop something in the store looking for businesses developing the world sustaining the world even thank you for sharing your story today. It's an exciting picture of where this place is headed difficult and you can learn more about investing that stores and brings blessings to the world best Eventide.com invest Eventide.com more moneywise line to a real pleasure to have you with us today. This is moneywise line times more that other guy was really have the answers.

He's Rob Weston work happy to have you with us on the program. Today, however, we are pre-recorded will be taking your calls but we've lined up some calls in advance that I think you'll find will help you and bless you and take you a wise steward of what God's given you. Should we jump right in. Rob I think we should stand up. So let's go north to bit Pike filled Kentucky hello Gary, how can we help hello okay thank you think I will explain to you. You know what I went out to you about when we were.

We went to CPA started in 2008 and he boxes go to a financial advisor anyway. We bought REIT is called unlisted rate and BDC anyway.

David the bottom dropped out of an ear lightly will we can't get out of it and not feel a form you like 5% of it and you know stop in value was up. It's called a Norstar healthcare income.

If the lead also and anyway, we work fully where this you know we were told it would.

You know it would turn over someone by back you know and you know and make a profit. Well, it didn't.

Anyway on this one. Unless you are totally disability or or you die is only but my question is this attorney you know that he would would have a lawsuit with this with this financial boxer know how to feel about that but I want to do that or not but anyway if I can get it I can get out will be the will be back to pineapple.

Dr. should I do that or just go well, Gary, first of all, I'm sorry to hear about the situation. I know this is never something any of us want to go through these can be tough lessons to learn, and you whether or not something was done inappropriately or fraudulently, obviously, is in the details of how this was described to you, and whether the law was followed with regard to how you took this out. I will say that unlisted read.

So this is REIT which stands for real estate investment trust. It's an opportunity to invest in real estate to earn both appreciation and income over time and some favorable tax treatment come in a couple of different forms. One is called what was called unlisted REIT which is listed on one of the major indexes and trades like a stock very liquid and accessible and then there are unlisted or what are called nontraded REITs. These are not listed on the public exchanges and provide you access to again real estate investments with tax benefits, but relatively inaccessible and because of the nature of them being unlisted and very ill liquid that they are certainly considered a higher risk investment not suitable for all investors. And that's why there are in most cases limp limited to what's called an accredited investor meeting you have to demonstrate some sort of sophistication in your investing most often determined by your net worth, and your experience in investing you in this case used an investment professional and I assume that you met the definition of an accredited investor and you were presented with the proper documentation to describe both what the investment was the fees associated with it, which tend to be a little bit more hefty on the front end can go up to as much as 15% or more, and then the redemption options in terms of your ability to get the money out now. Often we go into something like this we go into it with the best of expectations, and so perhaps you were not looking as closely as the opportunity to get out thinking. Well, I probably won't need that and you know you could just leave the money there and let it do what it was intended to do. Unfortunately when things don't perform as expected, which can happen with any investment, and then we begin to ask some questions around okay how I get my money back if it's only then that would become very understanding of the limitations around that which perhaps were disclosed on the front end but it was with a lot of other information that maybe you are paying close attention to.

So I would just simply say Gary, definitely a difficult situation. I understand your frustration. If though everything was done properly. Everything was disclosed. You got the proper perspective sin and documentation. You were an accredited investor. Everything was handled properly for for this that was called a private placement which is a private investment then I would say you that the risk is something you assumed when you went into this investment, despite the fact that it wasn't didn't turn out as you expected. If though something was not done properly either. There wasn't proper disclosures are. You should never been in this investment in the first place by the SEC's definition will then that's a completely different story. So you know at the end of the day.

In most cases I would say this is just a lesson we need to learn and we need to say you know what probably not do something like this again. Without understanding fully of the risks associated with it and you move on to the next investment I think. And in most cases, that's where you come down because most of these investment professionals are trying to do the very best thing for you and what certainly hope that was the case here and this is just a situation where the investment didn't perform as expected, but tell me, though.

Any questions or thought you have, based on what I just shared well you know what really aware of it. You know you know the financial notice somebody my turnover. You make money on it. We at retirement when they say that you cannot get it out and let you die just like life insurance policy coming and it went nowhere that they could do that but you know if they made rules up as they go yeah well all that should have been disclosed.

If this is a private placement in something called the PPM a private placement memorandum which gives all the specifics and often what you're looking for these is not necessarily return of your initial investment, but the dividends or the distributions that are taken along the way, which have to be paid out over know at various intervals so I go back and look at the information that was originally provided to you and have a conversation with the investment professional and out of that. Then decide what your next step should be at the end of the day. I realize it's a tough lesson to learn, and hopefully their other assets here that you can rely on moving forward, and appreciate Gary sorry about the situation. We wish you the best with that. Thanks. More money wise live right after this, Romans 1134 and 35 reminds us for who has known the mind of the Lord will become his counselor who has first given to him that it might be paid back to him again, this is money wise live where we can do each weekday trying to help you find God's plan for your life at your finances and we were just chatting with the caller Rob who had concerns about. Well the person who invested the money for him his money for him and what you do if you have complaints against someone who's investing your money a financial planner someone like that. Yeah, I think the first thing is just to recognize anytime we have a loss of principle are normal reactions to say wait a minute. Somebody must've done something wrong and I think the first thing we need to do is check her motivations and realize that when were investing.

We should've had a good plan and further proper time horizon and we understand with investing comes risk.

The market goes up and down so I think often times we need to start with taking a deep breath and saying.

Was there actually something done improperly or fraudulently here, but obviously you have a situation where you felt like you were misled something somebody has done something that is not appropriate. Well, the government is very interested in helping you with a situation like that of FINRA is the financial regulatory authority in the United States along with the Securities and Exchange Commission and they both provide ways for you to file a complaint and so if you have something legitimate that you feel like you would like to engage further about you can go to the investor complaint center for FINRA FI in RAA and it's very easy to get more information but again, I would just say don't be quick to do that unless there was really something done correctly. Great information. Thanks Rob Elizabeth calling us from New Hampshire with some issue she's dealing with very good Elizabeth thank you for your call today your own money wise live. Yes ma'am. January 13 I multiple Baptists Throughout the way they fluctuate. I don't and the getting over the past 20 years. I called every stock market and on and put everything in money market with the idea that I tried better and I couldn't reach the conclusion that maybe when I wanted to talk in money market and not get bonds are not and I give like you want to reenter the market and I and I you dollar, thinking to get into the market with my paycheck over the past couple of decades but carry the weight of the accident, like yeah well Elizabeth. A couple of thoughts. Number one is I certainly understand that the stock and bond market can be somewhat confusing, especially if this is not been your area of expertise you been focused on other things your work and whatever else the Lord is had for you and perhaps not really engaging in understanding the financial markets, and that's nothing to be ashamed of, but certainly as a steward of God's money. We want to be well-informed. I think that's why we see so much. In God's word about seeking wise counsel and just the benefit and importance of having godly professionals in this case the are walking alongside you to help you manage God's money and that would certainly include investing. I think based on what I'm hearing from you today.

Given the uncertainty you had perhaps some of the confusion you had. And even some of the moves you may never a good idea to get a holy cash out of the market. We need a long-term well discipline strategy, we can create not only all kinds of tax implications by just selling out of the market on a given day, but you know, often times we were trying to get out or get into the market by timing the market that just about every case doesn't work well, you know, we can really hurt ourselves in the long run. And that's why what you have been doing what you just mentioned the last couple decades is really the right approach and it's a discipline systematic approach to investing.

Now the good news is, as you move back into the market in more of a systematic fashion. And that's the way I would do it. Who knows what could happen tomorrow. The market could be up thousand points or more that could be down as well. We don't know and that's why we want to move in in a systematic fashion but I would though recommend Elizabeth that you seek some wise counsel here somebody who can really perhaps come alongside you and explain how the investment markets work begin to understand you and your story. What are your goals and objectives.

Is this money that you need income from now and if not, when I how does this play into your overall plans in terms of your financial finish line.

What is your goal for your savings what giving do you want to do now, what about the tax obligations. These are the things that an investment professional, especially one who shares your values could help you explore so let me direct you to our website moneywise live.org. Click on find a CK that stands for certified kingdom advisor there in New Hampshire and I'd interview three and find the one that's the best fit for you and then work alongside that person to move back into the market with a strategy that you understand and that makes sense for your goals and objectives. Elizabeth, thank you very much for your phone call today.

We wish you the best in that regard, Hollywood, Florida.

Sean say what's on your mind. I'm trying to find out I what your home right now and closing costs that they didn't clear in the beginning brightly colored dating that they're not putting anything toward the closing so my concern a will it be worth any putting me down payment plan going to fall.

Closing costs need promptly looking for other options in another property which roughly the total will be about 32 time three 2000 or are there any there is there another way, where I could possibly get everything from help with pain at 5 o'clock or I can if I like to have happened. Yeah, it's a great question shunted and I realize there in South Florida.

The real estate market is very high and so in a sellers market, which we have been in really, I would say we still are in a seller has little incentive to help the buyer with the closing costs when the situation is reversed. The buyer has more leverage to negotiate with the seller to pick up some of those closing costs which can run from 2 to 5%. Now which are talking.

That really is on the upper and so I would take a hard look at those and just make sure everything is in order and there's not an inordinate amount. For instance in in the mortgage closing that your pain points or things like that that could be perhaps eliminated. If you were to shop around. The best way to negotiate for the seller to pick up some of those cost is really the look for comparable sales in the area where sellers have paid the closing fees if you can show that that's been done in your area could make a difference in some cases people will agree to a higher selling price that includes the closing cost. So in effect what you would be doing their Sean today is just financing the closing cost but I really don't like that approach.

I try to avoid that. I think I go back first and just make sure you have the right down payment. Do you have that 20% organ recommend that for everyone and then make sure you're not paying too high a closing cost, take a hard look at those expenses and then finally work with the seller.

Hopefully there's some incentive there and see if they can help you with part of it and then I proceed at that point. Thanks very much for your call. Hey you listening to moneywise live with Rob West. Today's broadcast is prerecorded, so we won't be taking any calls but we have some calls lined up in some great information coming your way, but I think you'll find usable at the very very least, and you can find lots more great information about these topics. When you visit our website moneywise live.org right now going to break for just a moment. Don't go anywhere.

Stick around. This is moneywise listening to moneywise, then this program is fine moneywise media 501(c)(3) ministry in partnership with the radio and if you'd like to help us stay in the year. We certainly would appreciate that your gifts are than welcome at any level.

$20 $200. Whatever God is compelling your heart to do and you can do that easily, quickly and safely. When you visit our website which is moneywise live.ORG Rosemont, Minnesota hello Brenda, thanks for holding hello you think I recently retired. My husband and I and we would love to now travel and possibly become part-time snowbirds week we paid off our mortgage. We do have one outstanding loan for four 20,000 so we need to we want to purchase a travel trailer and a truck and my husband was in favor of doing the reverse mortgage process and I just like to know what your opinions are on that viable option. Is it a viable option. Yes. Is it my first choice. No Brenda, it wouldn't be. I'd love the fact that you're out of debt you completely debt-free, which gives you ultimate flexibility. Now I realize that if money is tight and you're trying to fund your lifestyle, despite the fact that you gotten your income, your expenses to the lowest level possible that the idea beginning to tap into that equity that's in the home can be attractive and that's really why a reverse mortgage was created for homeowners 62 or older and you have that considerable equity you essentially borrow against the value of your home and either receive that as a lump sum or fixed monthly payment or line of credit, and as you begin to tap into that. You don't have to. Of course, make any loan payments, the entire balance would be due when you die or move away permanently or sell the home. It's highly regulated other although there are a good many scams associated with them so you need to be really careful and understand what they are and work with a reputable lender. One of the reasons I don't like them other than refinancing our lifestyle with debt. Brenda is that the fees tend to be high so the imputed interest rate in them is high. Even though you essentially don't see it until you ultimately have to pay it or your heirs do, and there's a number of fees embedded in there as well and so is just a very costly way to access your funds. So what else could you do well, you could sell the property and downsize and perhaps take some of that principle put it to work for you live off of that. If you ultimately have errors that want to occupy her own this property. Perhaps they could come in and buy it from you and then you could in a sense you rented back something like that.

There's a number of options there, but I think at the end of the day if this really is the only way you feel like you are going to stay in this property you have a high degree of confidence that you can cover the taxes the property taxes and insurance, which is the primary way that these reverse mortgage products are foreclosed on her properties are foreclosed on is the borrower's inability to pay those property taxes and insurance, but assuming you can do that have a high degree of confidence and there's no other way and you really want to stay in this property, then this certainly is a viable way to begin to tap into that equity to fund lifestyle.

Just recognize the implications and really do your homework and make sure you're working with a reputable lender just because of some of the challenges inherent in some of the bad actors in this space. Does that make sense though to you really causes me to think perhaps just getting the loan makes more sense of how you feel about that if we just go ahead and borrow the money to be able to do this and we would be able to pay it back because our our our previous mortgage money is preop.

Sure, let's talk about that what would you be borrowing for to buy something or to fund lifestyle note to buy would like to buy a truck and a travel trailer cross country great and you know what you would need to spend for those two roughly. Yeah, probably about 80,000 okay and what is the value of your home about 320 market great.

I yeah you know it.

As long as you do the budget Brenda and you feel like you've got the ability to fund that. Do you have some assets there in the background to get a retirement assets things like that or is it really just the fixed income that you have that you are counting on moving forward. Just start fixed income. Yeah, my husband does work part-time four hours a day that's that's a bit of extra income you know. But no, it's basically just our income from Social Security and pension plans. Yes you do have now that the mortgage is paid off. What would you say your surpluses on a monthly basis.

I would say about 1200 a month okay alright so obviously an $80,000 mortgage to be able to purchase these wouldn't be anywhere close to that and what your age is no money asking six and my husband is 70 okay yeah you know I would probably like to see you go that direction before the reverse mortgage, especially because these would be assets that you could really focus on paying off as quickly as possible. I don't love the fact that you don't have the emergency fund to fall back on so I might delay this a bit just to try to take the 1200 a month and build up a bit of cash reserve. But beyond that, I would prefer you to go that approach and then ultimately pay this off and be debt-free again as opposed to the reverse mortgage your homework. Think it through and I'll probably seek some wise counsel there in your area therein in your air in your state because you know I don't obviously have all of the details of your financial situation. So I think it will be well worth you to spend a couple of hours with a certified advisor just to make sure you look at all sides of this, but I think I just based on the limited information I have that be the direction I'd and Robin pretty sure we have a certified kingdom advisors in the Rosemont area which I think is just outside of Minneapolis and that that magic of the country correct that's exactly right. A good many of them and you can click on find a CK when you go to moneywise live.and Brandon if you guys ever sailing through Georgia. As you will travel around the country. In the winter months are you let us know you can probably park the trailer in Rob's front yard, but will take care that when the time arises. God bless you I will go back to our phones, Indianapolis, Indiana. Obviously Mary thank you so much for holding today what you question for up how are Jack writing a lot of pressure to have difficult silver and all they think that there can think just wondering what your thoughts are gold and silver claim. Yeah, you know, Mary. I'm not a big fan of that approach you mean obviously you couldn't play out any number of scenarios where the dollar if it collapsed, taking their situation here and playing it out that you would be very difficult to even if you had gold and silver to operate because it's so very difficult converted to a means by which the means of exchange.

If you have the physical gold, then obviously you know how you parse that up and at that point to you know what is that look like on a day-to-day basis you I think in terms of the bigger picture.

You even though yes were taking on massive amounts of debt as a nation and you know we need to deal with that at some point were not at that point we can still handle the debt that we have interest rates are very low. We still have one of the largest economies in the world and you know the dollar for all intents and purposes is very strong and I don't see it losing its reserve status anytime soon. I'm also confident to Mary that if we were to get into a situation where the debt became burdensome that the policymakers with their backs against the wall would make the hard choices to do what they needed to do to write the ship if you will, and so I think just going back to biblical principles managing what passes through your hands. According to God's wisdom from the Bible is just about the best thing we can do because the rest of its out of our control anyway so living within your means having reserves being properly diversified and if you want to take a position in the precious metals. I think you know just maintaining a typical 5% allocation as a hedge against inflation or declining dollar is a good thing, but getting overweighted in gold because the volatility you know, not to mention the illiquidity and some of the premiums measure buying and selling through dealers and the physical storage and the safety of all of that. I just don't think that's a wise based on everything I know today and so I would respectfully kinda push back on that and said hear what you're saying. I understand the concerns but I don't feel like that's the best most prudent thing for us to do at this point, with God's money that we been tasked with and then you know I would just continue heating biblical principles as you manage what you have. Moving forward, but obviously Rob will elderly parents and those of us who've been in that situation. Sometimes it can be tough getting your parents to listen to you.

There children. Even though you mean well so with a situation like this. If there just bound and determined to get some physical gold. Where would you suggest they put it at me thousand dollars worth. There may be more under the bed and a hole in the backyard. The idea deal with that. Yeah, I mean if you are taking. Obviously, possession of the precious metals, gold, silver, or whatever it might be a need to have a safe and you need to be thinking about securing it in a way that is responsible. So I think that would be your next step, but that's not the way to go. I don't think for most moneywise live is a partnership between Moody radio and moneywise media.

Thanks so much for listening and for joining us today. Tell a friend about the program. We appreciate that and visit us online at moneywise live a large thanks