Shareholder Engagement Success Stories

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Jesus says, for I will give you words and wisdom that none of your series will be able to resist or contradict were now seeing this more than ever with faith-based that's right Christian shareholders Army voices heard in some of the world. Companies changing policies that oppose principles most Rob West talks about this and more with investing expert Robert Exley that your calls on anything at 800-525-7000. I'm Steve Moore, shareholder engagement success story.

Next right here moneywise. Rob Robert Spira investing in underwriter of moneywise live where they've taken the battle for biblical principles right into the boardroom well and no doubt Steve. Our listeners will be inspired by the stories of success they've been having Robert, it's a delight to have you back with us on the program. Robert concerned investors often take the approach of avoiding so-called sin stock screening out. Those companies were misaligned was somebody's values and that's perfectly fine and that's where your conscience leads you. We've often said this is a conviction matter, but shareholder engagement is a much different approach almost radical.

You could say also explained that for us and important to a company where your knight in our company letter involved in everything like that.

But there's a huge opportunity to engage Corporation the shareholders and where you can really speak directly to the company values and have more input they might think exactly right. Give us some examples. Robert of how companies typically go off the rails with their corporate policies and help us understand why they do well.

Certainly they can have products and services that are in direct opposition to more than time when we involve ourselves shareholder engagement around issues such as philanthropy or legislative support. The company might be involved with you now getting money to Planned Parenthood or sponsoring an elder Beatty activist organizations or event. Think of that nature where there really just taking dance and promoting certain viewpoint that is not a business and really opposing to biblical values, so there are a couple of areas that we can engage with. So essentially there taking corporate profits and their using those to advocate for certain causes or issues as a right yeah and often times more projects or the ideological stance of the executive for the Gordon and really not representative. Certainly there shareholders at large and really unfair to feel wrong use of corporate influence and really give her inclusive approach to their older people of faith who owns shares in the company's line. The idea here is that as an owner of the company, albeit very small percentage owner and yet still an owner of the investors can have a voice, and in fact what you're talking about here is leveraging that voice either as an individual investor or in the case of inspire on behalf of your investors to make the values of the investors known and hopefully influence what's going to happen will get into some success stories after the break, but give us an idea of what this looks like, how might you go about letting the values of your investors be known to the company in relation you know email numbers and email available and I and better job shareholders big and small with a firm like us and I think you can know that our team is methodically and intentionally reaching out to companies on your behalf. Just a few seconds left Robert. The good thing is that all of this data is available now and you all are actually scouring the web and other resources to know where these corporate profits are going so you actually have visibility into this, don't you. We do yet remain a publicly available inspire insight.com go there and symbol.E.

Check and see all the good that Nutley is going on but will get into some examples of success stories where shareholder engagement is actually made a big difference right to write you listening to moneywise live just as Robert Exley will Spira investing more, putting your calls at 1-800-525-7000 800-5257 many people are experiencing financial challenges such as credit card downsizing that in jobs saving more than half of all divorces are the result of financial pressures at home, but there's hope your money counts biblical financial expert Howard shows that the Bible is a veritable managing your finances and discover the profound relationship, your money counts is available when you click the start button moneywise live when it comes to investing guidance you want advice, grounded in God's word. That's the approach offered by sound mind investing. SMI has helped tens of thousands of Christians acquired vesting wisdom and confidence. Regardless of your investing experience or how much you have to invest can learn to be a wise and faithful steward in the area of investing a short video webinar on profit and peace of mind is available now sound mind investing stuff can be to get to heaven let's ask people and find out you serve. What you have to do to get to heaven. Basically, you gotta be a good person you know don't kill or steal stuff like that ma'am you have an opinion as to outweigh the bad, or you're not getting in. I know I need to start giving up some of my bad habits. I try not to think about it very much.

There are two things I need to change about my life. I just hope I make you're like these two people think you have to change and become a better person before you'll get to heaven as the shocking truth.

You don't have to. Why Jesus you come to him just as you are is the way to get to heaven.

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Listening today and we appreciate your support as well support so vital to keep us on the air and give quickly and safely by clicking the donate tab you visit moneywise live.org, your host is Rob last time Steve Moore and our guest is Robert Nestlé, CEO of inspire investing. If you are a shareholder in a company that's doing things you don't really approve of how can you impact who they are and what they do. As for chatting about today. Well I'm excited to talk about this largely untapped approach to investing, specifically using your voice and influence as a shareholder to let your values be known then influence how the company is using their corporate profits and Robert we've had some exciting success stories no inspire has been involved in many of them so let's get into some specifics where using shareholder engagement that is actively challenging policies that go against God's word has been effective and let's start today was Chevron. One of the world's biggest oil companies run a long history of corporate donations to Planned Parenthood there at quarter and the bay area your headquarters by inventing a revered local obviously using shareholder dollars to sponsor Planned Parenthood and all began for troubling lease for many investors and so we had partnered with some other friends and investors in industry and all the shareholder at lesion with Chevron and it ended up being successful. The fact that Chevron stopped donating money to Planned Parenthood. Plain simple in an independent example. You know it's good because even though the shareholder resolution didn't actually passing on these hardly ever get enough votes to actually pass but causes PR issues it causes you no noise to be generated on a certain issue that the corporations have to take notice of our God is gracious and gave us love to hear at Cosco. Robert is another huge company that is Roldan's Christian investors in recent years, talk to us about what's taking place there. Cosco had been in our portfolios for some time.

Good stock that we like to hold and then through our annual update of our screening data on fire@night.com. We noted that they had begun donating money to you gay pride parades around the country's first time that they had done that and not in line with looking support and so we freaked out. I reached out myself on this one and give investor relations call I got the voicemail and within 1/2 an hour I had a call back from their chief financial officer who getting on a plane in the airport and yet he made time to call me and you were not were elected huge business writing were not like Vanguard or BlackRock trillion dollar but that he called me and start a conversation that lasted you know here for a couple months and we were able to share the concerns of Christian investors around this issue and I click were we want to be included in the tolerant but it doesn't mean it takes five dollars to support their opposing tour viewpoints. Can you just do your business and stay neutral on the social issues we really appreciate that you went to conversation.

He was very receptive and instead thanked me for calling.

Thank you. We've never ever heard from faith-based Christian conservative shareholders on the thank you for calling and sharing this input and resulted in them deciding if an organization not to make donations anymore. It's incredible that you took the time to engage.

He obviously is receptive and the fact that he's highlighted the fact that he's not hearing from others is there's a huge missed opportunity here. Let's move to another example. Obviously a very well-known company Amazon that used extremist Southern poverty Law Center to determine which nonprofits can benefit from its Amazon smiles program that resulted in many faith-based charities being denied access, but your seeing signs Robert that Amazon is willing to change that policy, its founder Jeff Pazo said as much in a recent appearance before Congress, when questioned by Congressman Matt Gates about the SPLC's treatment of Dr. Ben Carson of the former HUD secretary. We have a clip of John Fielding, Mr. basis, we were cut short in our last discussion, I just want to give you a chance to clear this up.

You don't believe Dr. Ben Carson is an extremist. Do you know so I don't so help me understand why you would partner with the group that labels him as someone worthy of an extremist watchlist.

Well, what should hopefully appreciate when trying to make it possible for people to donate to any number of millions of different charities and we need to have some source of data to use and that way except what you're saying that this law center in the US for NASA office are not perfect and I would like a better source of the get it. That is what we use today for you to react to that comment by Pazo's how significant is huge watershed moment in our perspective they we would like a better option are working never uttered been a long-standing issue for going back several years where many conservative faith-based organizations have been very engaged with Amazon pointing out the agreed to problems with poly law center and Amazon has been completely dogmatic in their embracing of guilty and guilty, never wavering, and we had earlier this year.

Prior to this congressional hearing. We had been involved in a cohort of other Christian investor groups and organizations where again we file the shareholder resolution with Amazon directed at this issue regarding SPLC and by God's grace were able to get enough you know interest in signatures that acclimated to the shareholder ballot so every shareholder Amazon worldwide got to vote on this issue and the board of Amazon, including Mr. Bailey on the porch had to come up with a response to this you and look into this issue and so there was pressure prior to where you wrote an op-ed in the Christian Post. Basically, the companies even decided Amazon largest company in the world really cannot afford to just ignore offhandedly the voice of Christian investors. You know more academic problems or people, but we do want to express our viewpoints and we would appreciate if the company that we own the viewpoints and respective viewpoints and so for Bayless than to fit before Congress and they would like to have a different option is enormous. Incredible Robert well were so grateful for your partnership your money wise media and it's clear that shareholder engagement is having an impact on some very big companies and we appreciate you stopping by to share some of those exciting success stories with us. I know there's another side to faith-based investing, not just the avoiding and the engaging but really embracing companies making a positive impact in the world, so will have to have you back sometime to tell us more about what you're doing and that this particular space but that we appreciate you stopping by today that she's been with us today. You can find out more about inspire investing.com right there and check out their free tool for evaluating companies that inspire insight.com will be back with more your phone calls to 800-525-7000 800-525-7000 nine Steve Moore will be right back. This is money wisely. Many people adopt an attitude toward marriage and finances that it'll all work out somehow. But sadly, it often doesn't financial woes can devastate a marriage but there is a better way. God's way, money and marriage God's way by Howard Dayton will help you discover God's approach to growing your finances strengthening your relationship with your mate and cultivating godly joy, money, and marriage God's way is available and moneywise live.org/the well because we… Permissive well his perfect will not do God's well to do his own well.

The question is how we got any part of what God can write the perfect this is right down believe the perfect will of God's child or something God wants that to happen in your life to get you there.

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Let's go up to northern Idaho. Colleen, thank you very much for contacting us today and what's in your mind and I wanted to inherit my thank you thousand dollars and I wanted that land here that I have gone at all nights felt violated lining can now make a lady be back to keep it in the bank and and if you think the bank that they armed with everything that's happening around right now. There were thank at and PR whatever people talk you know I sure and cremate my grandpa and he and he invested in land and property in time. I wanted to maintain and honor, and my grandfather step lining like them I'm not and I can hang it into their mind just a couple of questions that that's okay and I appreciate you calling Colleen and I also appreciate what you said there at the end which is you want to honor your grandfather's legacy with how you use this money. I would also say though that he's entrusted this to you and so you're the steward which means that as you consider this prayerfully as to what you would do next. I want you to really think through that in terms of you now being the one responsible before the Lord for this money and I'd like to explore this idea that you want to honor your grandfather a bit more. Did he ask you specifically to use it in a certain way or do you know that he just happened to be fond of real estate and so you feel like that's a way just to allow his legacy to continue.

Tell me a bit more about that. Yeah well I don't write that and iron tell III have that effect. I felt like I prayed about it like it like that] it and situation run the child that is ready and not lead me to have that it had not $70,000 but I don't really have a lot at option here and right in Idaho kicking that the Shortell and UCLA and added that I felt like that that they tailored me to have right now land our house immediately felt that I let a house that they can live a July land without that, I'm just trying to think at the back way to use that outlet dwindling. Yes, that makes complete sense. And so that would be the first thing I would do this is really asked the Lord to give you wisdom which clearly you've done to think about any giving opportunities right off the top before he done that, that's great. The next thing I would do is look at this money in light of not only biblical principles but your God-given goals and objectives, and typically I would gonna run through the list we have consumer debt you said no.

Do we have for an emergency fund. If not, this might be a start to that it is there any other, short-term goals were trying to accomplish, and if not then I think investing this for your future is a great opportunity in terms of considering land versus other investment types you know land can be a good investment, but it can also be more challenging in the sense that there's just so many factors to consider. It doesn't always increase in value.

It could lose value. Actually because of of cell rezoning and other factors.

You have to consider whether raw land is capable of accommodating building plans. What is the water availability road access.

What is the plan for selling it down the road. This easements on the property so it tends to be a little more illiquid, and there's a bit more rest just because of some of these factors as opposed to real estate investment that would be income producing like buying a duplex or buying small home that you could rent out or a more passive type investment like a just a well diversified stock and bond portfolio where you're not having to get the calls that the maintenance is needed in the plumbing and you don't have to marketed to make sure somebody's renting it.

You can just be properly diversified and let that grow over time, which I received takes a lot of the burden and stress off of it so.

Considering that land and some of the challenges that I mentioned versus real estate where you'd look to be a landlord versus a stock and bond portfolio. Just react to those options and what your thoughts are with that. Lau sat me and I have been the debris a and me. That's really help that have financial freedom, no patent night and can make no getting an online like a holiday. Can you get a down payment on a house.

Even now like you making a little bit that and I don't know how you go about that like as down payment and I kind I really had a house on it. Yes, well, I'm not opposed to dad and I think there are some rules that we can look at when were boring. First of all, going borrowings prohibiting God's word. I do think as husband and wife you need to be in complete agreement before you take on any debt number two. We want to use it for economically productive purposes. So we want the economic cost to be less than the economic gain, meaning we would want to make sure that there's a reason to believe this is good increase in value over time.

Want to make sure it doesn't put too much stress on your budget. We also want to make sure that you have a guaranteed way of repayment was just simply means it's collateralized so you can always sell the property and pay off the loan so all those things are in place, I would be okay, but I think you gotta start with. Do we have a conviction around being debt-free and are my husband and I in complete agreement. If the answer to either of those is no. I would pass on it. Apart from that, I would just strongly consider connecting with a financial advisor somebody who shares your values could perhaps put this to work for you in the stock and bond portfolio level I don't answer that last question about banks saying and then we'll wrap up today will indeed 800-5257. How should we as Christians think about testing. What if we could invest our money in a way that aligns with what we believe that Eventide we believe it is possible to love God and love our neighbor in the very practice of investing we design investments for performance and better world so you can invest for the future with a sense of wholeness and purpose. We call this investing that makes the world rejoice.

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This is SRN news wherever you are here it all better. When you give us a call and have an opportunity to chat just a bit about anything financial that might be like. So here's our phone number again jotted down 805 two 5800 525-7000. Let's go back to our phones, Boynton Beach, Florida hello Shirley, do you have a question. So now I or all way you want to be like I see. Well, I appreciate the background Shirley and I'm sorry to hear about the divorce me ask you, are you planning to read invest this in another home or is this money that will not go back into real estate, I would like okay so tell me what the proceeds were and how much are looking to put into the house.

Your next home. I okay what you plan to spend on the total purchase price okay and and why only 10,000 would you put down just because you want to be able to invest some yeah I would consider me that I want to understand, what your other goals and objectives are. But assuming you don't have consumer debt like credit cards or student loans and you have an emergency fund in place. I'd really prayerfully consider Shirley going and putting 20% down. If you can at the very least put a full 10% down, which would be 27 five and I realize that would eat up a good bit of this money. The key though is want to try to get to 20% equity as quick as you can see you not paying private mortgage insurance.

I also don't want you to get into a situation where you buy the housing prices, which don't always go up long-term. They have put you in any given cycle. You could see a dip in the housing prices and at some point you could be upside down. If you just put just a little bit of money in there, in the sense that even if you sold that you would be able to pay off the mortgage and so I'm hesitant for you to only put 10,000 down on a home of nearly 300,000 are you contributing to a retirement plan at work of some kind. Now I yeah so I might consider putting that assuming you have the 3 to 6 months emergency funds. If not, I would sure that up with this 38,000 that you or whatever's left of it that you have and then beyond that, I'd consider putting the 27 five down on the house.

If you have anything left over, then you could use that perhaps to get your retirement account started. I'd look at either an individual 401(k) or a set up SEP IRA and you probably want to connect with a certified kingdom advisor or another professional there in Boynton Beach just to see if somebody who can advise you on getting this set up and and getting started because now is the time to systematically start putting some money and putting some money away for retirement, and this could be you know a few thousand dollars after the down payment and after you sure of your emergency fund to get you going, then the key will be to really dial back your spending in such a way that you have margin every month so you can systematically contribute to that retirement account moving forward as best you can. I realize as a single mom money can be tight. I've counseled enough families in that situation to know that that's a real challenge. So I think the key is just a really stay vigilant about spending on a plan and not letting your expenses get away from you and I hope that's helped Shirley thank you very very much. Let's continue on Canton, Georgia hello Beth what's on your mind today an emergency on how she is going to downsize that he can be debt-free.

She's already got all that set up the house down and everything that she like it that had no emergency fund that he did inherit some silver coin and she needs badly to upgrade her kitchen and said that it will get a better price to sell the house. Yes, point yeah number of things going on there and I appreciate your help to her and in this process. Your friend needs to have as a starting point.

These coins appraise to get an idea of their value and potential for increased value and depending on what her goals and objectives are.

She may just want to go ahead and liquidate them meaning sell them so she can get those resources in and redirect them toward things that will be better suited for her long-term you want to look for an appraiser registered with the American numismatic Association numismatic speaking to collectibles and coins.

You could even look for somebody with even better pedigree at the professional coin grading service.

The website for that is P CGS.com PC GS.com.

They also have a pricing tool to get an idea of the coins value just as a starting point, but to get a real accurate estimate she's going to need to have an appraisal done. I think that's key in that she's going to prayerfully consider the value of that asset just like she what if she inherited cash or stocks and bonds.

That's just an asset that she needs to look at in light of her overall objectives shoring up that emergency fund, you were talking about and preparing the home to sell not be careful about updating the kitchen just because you can put a lot of money into the kitchen that you're knocking to get out so I would have her connect with a real estate professional who can really advise her on the best uses of any money that she has as to preparing the home to maximize the selling price before she kind of launches into a major expense on that kitchen get some counsel by at least one if not two real estate professionals before she makes a decision. Beth, I hope that helps you were glad that you called today and obviously rub that's always a tough one because when we start talking about silver. Sometimes people mean silver bars or are suitable silver coins just for the value of the silver then there's the numismatic value of a silver coin and it can be all over the map. I while you were chatting.

I was just line this this was the price of silver in 2011 $25 an ounce in 2016.

It dropped to 14 2020. It was 13 up until around April and then the with the covert concerned.

It's now jumped up to $28 today but if you look over the last 10 years it's been all over the map and there wasn't any any real strong increase in value. For the last 10 years. If you would if you would held it back in 2011 why think that's right Stephen, I think just from a volatility standpoint and overall performance.

She's gotta be better off with the stock and bond portfolio over the long haul. Especially, just given the fact that when you go to sell silver coins, whether there collectibles or just for the pure silver you often. You have a markup for a dealer and there's just security issues when you're trying to secure these coins in your home or somewhere else so I like perhaps moving out of these and thinking about another way to that money and we like chatting with you. In fact, after the break will come back and say hi to Tony and Brentwood, Tennessee. Also, Frank held little Florida and some others were currently working their way through a financial wealth you leave behind could be the best thing that ever happened to your loved ones or the worst, and splitting hairs, giving your money and things to your children without ruining their lives. Ron blue explains why it's important to make these decisions now, instead of forcing your heirs to do it later. Splitting hairs will foster a real appreciation for the precious resources that God has entrusted to you, and it's available. Click the start button moneywise live.org hi, I'm here to help you understand how urgent it is a sugar for the eyes of a layman to say the least. These are uncertain times look like what the Bible calls the time. No man knows the hour, but God says will know the signs of the times and they're looking kind of like you been reading about for a long time. We just did expect to happen in our time. This to me.

Maybe one of we don't. What if these are the last days that's even a possibility. How much time do you have left to get your friend to serious question you think about right now. Think about all the you know and love were about to be lost for eternity. God's place in your life for a reason.

They are your responsibility. There is nothing more exciting than knowing God is using you to move people closer to join is not America, no moment no idea what hell he was headed for selfish or married a man healthy, but was marred by the pain of staying at our wedding song which, unknown to me right out of Micah 434 God said he would hammer toward the plowshare and never again will a peaceful warmth spread throughout my body, which only three years before that. A machine gun and my heart still rage that raged all over my new wife Mary. Finally after five years I surrendered to the Lord Jesus Christ bring a friend got a war going on in the Gospel of John in the Bible and find Jesus Christ bite him.

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Unfortunately, sometimes it seems like your money is heading in a different direction from your goal, and never enough three keys to financial contentment. Author Ron blue helps you to break down all your financial options to a basic floor and then shows you how to keep it all chugging along in the right direction on the same track never enough three keys to financial contentment available when you click the store button moneywise live.org enjoy the things we talked about this program you like to think just like you to visit our website moneywise live.org. There you will find lots of additional information information financial planning sheets, budget templates, archives store best radio programs how to find find a certified kingdom advisor and in your area and also how to connect with a budget coach at basically no charge. So you like someone to help you kind a hands-on face-to-face. You might want to look for that connect with the coach is the little wording to look for on the website, and it's also where you can make a donation if you'd like we are a 501(c)(3) ministry. We depend greatly on your prayers and your financial participation in donations and gifts again moneywise live.org, click the donate tab right there at the top of the page Brentwood, Tennessee hey Tony, what can we help you with Michael pick up on learning about.

We could both came to mind of Lockhart corn stuff like that about the time adult. They may have appreciated in value greatly… Now what like pawn stars you ever heard Vermont only got 20 acres black walnut couple million dollars from the timber like long-term change in our lives we could talk returned with absolutely Tony and couple of things come to mind as I hear you talking first of all, I appreciate so much you wanting to just walk alongside your son as you explore these opportunities to really teach some important lessons and to show them him the value of being diligent in saving but also seeing a return on God's money. You know a certain collection of beanie babies comes to my collection. Yes you member of the beanie baby craze where people would buy them and sell them. I have no idea why anyone would do that yes we did.

It was not a good idea. There was eons ago but here here's the thing. I think first of all, one of the most important things you can do. Tony is really teach him God's heart as it relates to his money. Starting with the fact that God owns all and the money is a tool to accomplish God's purposes which makes us his money manager. His caretaker and began modeling those biblical principles and's really beginning with that key idea but also just the importance of being generous, holding everything loosely living within your means living according to a plan and when were done here today. I'd like for you to stand like as I want to send you a book called the ABCs of managing money.

God's way that you can work your way through with him to begin teaching some of these valuable principles, but then to your point, I think of showing him the value of investing, taking margin, meaning surplus beyond what you need for your expenses, which obviously is a child is your most of his is gonna be margin and putting it to work is really key but I think doing it in something that has a proven track record, perhaps with less volatility and it is not you know that really is time tested in terms of being able to increase over time in value is something that I think will serve him well.

Over time, and so I would tend to move more toward a stock and bond portfolio, probably a stock portfolio as opposed to things like baseball cards or coins or something that you would hope that would create increasing value, but in the end, you know, just don't perform very well know, historically speaking, you're just not going to do as well. There even though it might be fun for you all to get into it. I would look at it as a hobby, not as an investment. If you truly want to teach about investing in seeking a return. I would perhaps the two of you begin to partner together to explore some investment options get involved in researching some companies and perhaps even introduce them to the faith-based investing space where you can look at companies that are not only having getting a great return but they're making a difference in the world. Socially, or even from a kingdom standpoint so these are the things I would be looking at Tony as you look at an opportunity to walk alongside your son and I would think you could have just as much fun with stocks and really set him up for the future in terms of some education that will serve him well down the road as opposed to doing something that I would attend more to a hobby and told him to leave you with that because we have some of the colors lined up but we wish you the best with that give that some prayerful consideration and with the black walnut trees we don't have a lot of time to get into that, but of course you need a very, very, very large chainsaw down the road. Thanks for your call today. Tell middle Florida hello Frank, what's cooking hello all, almost 62 years old, went over five years and also retired five years ago. I now eat my wife's Social Security. I now have my pension and also have savings in the background I play with and I also get my wife's retirement so we both government and we both had three savings programs by combining down and that money just sitting in the big net they got there.

I don't foresee that I will ever need it.

I've been living five years on what I make now. Yes I know there are things that might, but what do I do get that money to my children or adult children to be like an inheritance. Yes, it would that TFT account for the next 10 year. Yes you what I would consider Frank and I appreciate that background, I would consider rolling both DSPs or perhaps you already consolidated them into a new IRA, an individual retirement account that could then be managed if you don't have an advisor you could connect with a certified kingdom advisor in the investment area@ourwebsitemoneywiselive.org just click find a CK inside that IRA you could invest it, which then you could leave as an inheritance. The other thing you could do is you could do some giving some tax-advantaged giving out of that perhaps even get the kids involved in that. Now to really model a generous life and use the qualified charitable distribution to gift money directly out of that IRA to your church or other charities or ministries that are on your heart and you don't have to realize any of that is income so the you get the deduction on the full amount of the value of the investment that you transfer in the ministry gets the full value for their purposes, and no taxes paid. So I think between the inheritance opportunity and the qualified charitable distribution.

The IRA would serve you very well Frank, thank you very much we appreciate that phone call today and quickly Tampa Bay at the Tampa Bay area and in the state of Florida. Eli, we have just a couple minutes. What's the situation there should yeah what I have here is trying to consolidate all my and using my home equity.

Right now I'm estimating I have someone around the neighborhood of hundred $70,000 equity on my home and around the hundred and $40,000 in debt.

So what waited for me to go about this is time to tell me about the debt. Eli, what type of that is well deduct would be mortgage that I have on my home and mobile that and then some actual credit card debt on top of and how much of it is going. How much of this hundred 40 is credit card. I would say probably like 10 to 15,000 call the credit card that I know are you living on a spending plan right now and are you able to live within your means. Currently so far I have a pension I retired 159 59 Christmas and I have a pension that I'm still working on and I see in your current mortgage what rate is what the interest rate of 4 to 4.25 left on probably 8 to 19 years okay and yeah I got the information. Here's where I go from here. I would be really hesitant. In fact, I would encourage you not to roll the car and the credit card into the new mortgage. I think if you have good credit. If your credit scores good and you got documented income. I could see you refinancing and get you note on the 20 year mortgage 2.62.7 percent, a much better rate that would save you money over time role that second mortgage into the refi but keep the credit card debt in the auto mode automobile debt out because it just is too easy to roll that in. Run it out over 20 years and even though you get the interest rate down. You can end up paying a lot of money and I'd rather you go through the hard work of paying that off out of margin with the credit card that I would put that in a credit counseling program. I visit with our friends and Christian credit counselors.org still get the interest rates down, but we want to be able to pay off that house over time and if we put all this down the house string it out over 20 years. It's good to be with us for a long long time. So I go back to your spending plan. Get the credit cards into a credit counseling program try to get that auto loan coming down and refinance the first and the second with the new firstborn Eli were glad that you call thank you very much and if you have a question or had a question for today. How about trying again tomorrow will be back.

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