Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Why is it apologetic to research what is log on you questions about Bible doctrine why Grimes is called responding to your questions at 87707276.

Welcome everyone to enjoy the shoulder you never know the Lord has in store callers, so no will Charlie Spina and I we pray every day before the show and by the way congratulations Charlie 48 years marriage to your lovely wife happy anniversary, which got me outnumbered.

I just have my 35th wedding anniversary and I just told my wife I said you're lucky to have me review so that the trip to your wife.

Charlie snuck inside anyway do all the little of those of you who are married in Christ. Praise God praise God's will. You know that we go for the month of December having a matching funds drive if you were to donate to us. Whatever you donate will be matched and Sophie donate hundred dollars will become $200 etc. etc. if you sign up for new recurring donation. The total for next month. If you do $10 a month. That's hundred $20 for the total next year that will be matched if you all are already doing something like that. So you doing five you you increase it to 10, that's five dollars increase would count at five dollars for the entire year 7060 and then 60 matched so that we need that because the first of the year is always tough for this ministry to pay a lot of missionaries all over the world work in missionary stuff in Columbia and Brazil and Turkey, and Africa, and so we are working and that we pay, the missionaries will set a full-time employee in Utah so my wife works in the ministry part-time and full-time so you know just what it is ministry to is a lot of work and by the way, I did a lot of preparation for video writing a lot of stuff in preparation for that reminds me to give you movie coming out called 1946 and its pro-homosexual stuff trying to use the Bible in order to demonstrate that homosexuality is not a sin, along with LGBT Q all the kind of stuff found the working against them. As soon as I'm able to if anybody knows the text already or and has a an early release of the video maybe tardy out. I don't know about it.

If you have any connections in any way I want to see that ASAP so I can start working on it and think of typical response and it like I was on Instagram today and it came up this move is coming up in 1946. Nothing just because that's when the word homosexual was first coined and used scripture of basically states that were never existed until people put it in there and it's a better argument but is like nothing 46 something going to be doing response video responses, written responses, and things like that so yes homosexual is a sentiment that I wrote on Instagram. Here's a thing you know they wrote some wrote their own. Nothing. 46.

The movies coming out LGBT Q is not a sin. And I wrote yes it is a sentinel debate anybody nationally televised anything. Let's debate this. The Bible and I got out of it was good to me upon that.

But I certainly would end up and I was wondering if I were to go want to Instagram and and say no homosexuality to Q is a sin, would they censor me for saying that when the others are saying LGBT Q is not a sin and are use the Bible and I say I'm using the Bible as a good business and and I want to know. Curious if the leftist agenda would not permit me to give a counter argument from the same source that they would use so that something I'm wondering about will see if Instagram, YouTube and Facebook, Twitter and others are to be fair and I would've word things in such a way that ovens show that if they were to censor me that their mother being biased and prejudicial and on-call use the same wording that the other was used as just I don't twist the knob twist but use the unit. They say homosexuality is not a sentinel say homosexuality is a sin if they say here's the Bible said that's okay was a hero. The Bible is not okay with the exact same thing just for the office reflective and so the question researching is whether or not there can allow me to do that with the left left is all about tolerance and patience and in fairness and equity. As long as you are flying that the rainbow flag, then it's fair but if you sick note that sinful.

Oh, I'm sorry your big euro euro homophobe and the common homophobe on the seer Christ the Pope and the note so we'll see we'll see what happens. But you to pray for me and that God would show mercy to the efforts that hopefully getting into later also be doing well but prepping up for one minute videos. I'm getting my video room ready and man does it take a lot of work, especially when you're near me with a low IQ in capability of understanding things like lighting and in the concepts of Nikki so they look good for me. The other guy you know a bull in a china shop Pro bars my way through is good and you gotta make it better than that. So pray for me in wisdom and God's unction be on that as well.

But having a lot right now. All right, all right. If what you recall, we have three open lines 877072276 was good to Jason from Arizona Jason welcome you were only appreciated: back today because yesterday you told me to call back. We can talk about Romans 1129 we were rushed yesterday. Yes you for the gifts and very little conversation but II take a backup on that II want to hear more from yet basically just that with thing in the commentaries I was reading, why not including eternal life. They were just saying that the gifts of the Jews are your revocable and I was telling you. I thought that was illogical because in Romans 11 Paul says there is a remnant according to the election of grace and that just mean that just to be for the Jews. But you and I are Gentiles who are saved so eternal life with that would be your revocable for you and I also but only one commentary agreed.

So I just wanted your thoughts that you know it's talking him into a real quick search on the Greek word for that. That's in love and 29 for the gifts.

The gift or the word is that C5486 less than Strong's concordance 5486 which means I can find every single instance of its occurrence.

And that's what I could do not look at some like us. First of all its context, and and with the other commentator you read said makes sense because it says this offer did not want your brother to be uninformed of the mystery that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles come in and says in verse 26 of Romans 11 they don't, the deliverer will come from Zion with he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. This is my covenant with them when I take away their sins from the standpoint of the gospel. They are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice that her beloved for the sake of the fathers for the gifts of the calling of God are your revocable and that is a little confusing. What that means right there. The gifts and the calling now if you were to decide for the calling of God is your revocable I would get that because it's saying that the calling of God if it was just that is the calling that he has with Israel. Now some reformed folk. I'm not one of them says that's of the skull replacement theology where the Christian church is completely and totally permanently replaced Israel, and I don't buy that is God's not done with Israel. So any of this if there is a the calling of God is a revocable that would make more sense to me and just the calling because is called them is not done with them, etc. but was as gifts. That's charisma that in this charismatic gift. Now that makes me wonder to the reasons for this.

You see, because in acts 238 it says a lot.

You will get this wrong. It says repent, and each of the rebaptized name of Jesus for the forgive us of your sins and you receive will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And when I go to that verse. Acts 238 and look up the word gift. It is the real, which is not a charismatic gift but it's a different kind of a gift just a minute just given the gift, but the context is that the gift of the Holy Spirit will be the charismatic gifts is what it is because that's how it is worked and I could getting it won't do that right now don't have time so I wonder about that as I look at this issue of the gifts and the calling of God are revocable, since the word gifts in Romans 1129 is charisma and it occurs 17 times in the New Testament. Paul says in Romans 111. He wants to impart some spiritual gift to the Romans 515 with a free gift is not like the transgression that's really interesting. The free gift is not like the transgression for the transgression of the one the many died, much more to the grace of God and the gift bound to the many and 516. The gift is not like that which came before and goes on and Romans 623 Paul says the free gift of God is eternal life. So when were talking about this kind of stuff we can see that there's a range of meanings of the word charisma. We can't take the range of meaning. Select one that we like and then move it over into Romans 1129 even though it's tempted.

We don't do that to say for the charismatic, the Korea spa and the places from Colette. I think it is the calling that which God, it is a revocable, I think what's going on here is what God is saying is, those charismatic things that were for Israel.

That's the question what are they and the calling of God to Israel cannot be removed.

I think that's where it's going. I don't think this really is a strong verse for the context of the continuation of the charismatic gifts that I spoke a lot their bill that I mean them as far as believers in Jesus receiving the free gift of eternal life, like so many people say, well, so eternal life.

The free gift. If your revocable yet other commentator say you can't claim that as a Christian that's just for Israel.

There, in Romans 11.

That's the point.

I think there's some merit to that letter claim that is talking about Israel because it is talking about Israel and that's why when I want to spend time going over looking a little bit of stuff this really quickly. I noted it fast, but I would not use Romans 1129 as a proof text eternal security because the context seems to be dealing with the coveted nation of Israel.

The question however is what are those Korea small, that would be related to Israel. That's the question and I don't have an answer for that one. I don't have an answer yet.

That's a good question. Gotcha. Well, you know, I believe, like you, eternal security so I lets not like I'm searching for other proof to believe that eternal life yet is it only never perishable Jesus that we not possible for us to perish, but is curious that them with a Romans 1129.yeah III see your point in the commentators point and yeah you made that pretty clear appreciate about thinking you're welcome appreciate that and you know it was a 70 discussion with a friend of mine yesterday about different views and one of the things I want to make clear to people is that I am very much open to being corrected. In my view, but you just have to do from Scripture. That's my view and I believe the charismatic gifts are for today. I do my going to that little bit after you hang up. I don't think Romans 1129 is a good verse to use for eternal security just don't think it is. It might be if we look at more but I just don't think so that they focus. There's the break seven mass Y call 77077 charismatic slave back to the show colorway with Apocrypha, but I want to get into little bit about the charismatic gifts giving arguments. That gives I believe, in my opinion are still with us today to go through a couple of scriptures and give an illustration of something. This is a very important topic to me and because of history. I have as a pastor in the church and this issue came up and will be in the details of that, but nevertheless this is what the Bible says it says so in first contains 17 it says so that you are not lacking in any Korea small awaiting eagerly the revelation that's the word about… The Apocalypse wrote the book of Revelation. Write the return so that you're not lacking in any charismatic gift awaiting eagerly the rate revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ will return to Christ that this would first contains 17 says, and Paul what he does is relate the charismatic gifts to continuation while were waiting for the return of Christ. Now most of the people who deny the continuation of the gift and then you can understand I've got friends who hold that position. I am not mocking them. I'm not judging them. I love my brothers and sisters who hold that position.

I am not gonna break fellowship over that position.

We disagree with each other. We do so lovingly. And that's the attitude that I have about it but I did want to go over and give some people some argumentation about this and say this is why I believe it is not just an experiential thing.

This is from Scripture that my interpretation and my understanding of Scripture could be wrong of course I could be wrong but you know they present this the suit you think.

Sorry with you first. Contains 17 where it says that you not like any charismatic gift while you're waiting for the return of Christ and this is what it says in first Corinthians 13 91B, started verse eight is Michigan Your love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy.

They will be done away.

The word gift is not in the Greek there that's it's just if there are's prophecies is what is really psyched they'll be done away with. If there are tongs, they will cease. If there is knowledge, it will be done away.

So there's a great time when when these things… Say the charismatic things are to cease. I have no problem with that because that's what it says this is for verse nine for we know in part and we prophesy in part.

But when the perfect come, the partial will be done away now. What is the perfect when the perfect comes, so the dispensation lists a column displeased will say that the perfect is the completion of the Bible that we don't need to have charismatic things we have the Bible don't need to have any revelations of of word and tongs and with word of wisdom because when the perfect comes, the completion of the Bible, the partial be done away with. And that's the partial are the charismatic gifts. I don't see that as being a necessity but they say will that was good you on this what Paul goes on and continues to say when I was a child I used to speak like a child think like a child, reason, like a child when I became a man I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face-to-face so the word then but then face-to-face.

What is the antecedent of the word than the antecedent means the thing that came before that is being referenced so the antecedent of then face-to-face. The word then the antecedent is when the perfect comes northwards then when the perfect comes, then we'll see face-to-face us as we see in a mirror dimly, now.

But then the perfect comes face to face. Alright, so that there saying then that when the Bible is completed, then we see God face-to-face.

I don't buy that for second, I did search search on the term face-to-face and I discovered that it always means an encounter and see. The phrase is used with the Bible and usually means an encounter with a person. When God uses it in reference to himself. It means a visual personal encounter with him.

In Genesis 3230 Exodus 3311 and I got a lot of verses. Likewise, in the New Testament.

There is also used in speaking of personal encounter. Second Corinthians 10 verses one into verse one second John 1230 John 14 etc. so the perfect comes, then we shall see face to face.

The most obvious and logical thing to say is that were face-to-face means personal encounter.

That's how it's used in the Scriptures. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face-to-face, so I'm talking to you face-to-face. We had were having a personal interest encounter.

But here's a question when the Bible is completed. Are we seeing Jesus face-to-face. No, I'm not knocking the Bible course and blessing the Bible is insufficient. It's completely sufficient second-best Timothy tooth 360 but it doesn't make sense to me. In my opinion from what I seeing how the phrases used face-to-face to say that the that then we'll see face-to-face means that when the Bible is completed, will see face-to-face was a God face-to-face or did it doesn't work. It does make sense to say that when Jesus returns, will see him face-to-face that makes perfect sense and is consistent with prescriptive 17 the same book, where Paul says that you're not lacking any charismatic gift awaiting eagerly for the revelation of our Lord Jesus will return to Christ, which is when witnessing makes perfect sense and it was on in verse 12 of first Corinthians 13.

Now I know in part, but then I will be I will know just as I have been fully known.

Now, people don't get this says I will know just as I have been fully known to have been fully known, is an interesting phrase because Jesus throughout the Scriptures. He talks about that. He knows us effect in Galatians 48 Paul says when he did not know God you serve by nature, those which are not gods but now that you've come to know God or rather our known by him.

Now you come to us to serve a true living God. In Matthew 723 feet of Jesus as a good way for me. I never knew you in John 10 2728 Jesus is my sheep hear my voice and I know them so. Whatever God says I know you would meet your say is I don't know you mean you're not saved. So then when Jesus returns, I will be fully known, that lends itself to the idea of a full relationship experience of salvation with Christ, not the idea of when the Bible is completed. That's when I'll be fully known, just does not make any sense to me to say that now almost done here. One more thing that well to ethics. There is most definitely absolute most definitely a misuse of the charismatic gift. There's a lot of wackos out there and I mean is wackos and I will stand in opposition to the wackos or go around speaking in tongues publicly misusing the gifts and they do these kind of things and to make fools of themselves and the Christ look that it's unfortunate. I've seen people speaking in tongues, to each other on the stage applicable to Christians in any laugh at the circular tongues are a joke and talks its idiocy frequency is 14 says that we must speak in tongues two or three with interpretation of what remained silent.

People say will matter. The charismatic gifts are from God that meat is inspired and inspired. The divine is we can answer that show you one more thing that folks after mass Y call 77077 charismatic shop on the charismatic gifts. The callers now before the break. I wrote up the issue of how some people say the charismatic gifts are true for today and there inspired of God, because that charismatic thing comes from God. That would mean that the candidate is not completed, etc. let's it. It's an improper argument because if you go to prescriptive. 14 people were speaking in tongues and prophesying never was anything there considered to be added to the Scriptures that just prove that's the rift the reputation for deposition. It's over. That does that okay because they were doing it. They never entered the Scriptures of the argument is that the charismatic gift today me that you got up at the Scripture that's not true because that's not what was done prescriptive structure. 14. Whenever something happened all right and one last thing is, here's an illustration and when I websites going to have this illustration. There if you go to prescriptive's 12 and you go to prescriptive's 14 to 14. Assume for a moment that the all the charismatic gifts of ceased and then cross out those verses that no longer apply. If the charismatic gifts of ceased.

For example, it says apartment is 14 follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially get the prophecy. Sorry not for today for anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God stuff for today is cross indeed known understands him he utters mysteries with the spirit goes on you speaks in a tongue edifies himself.

All this is false is no longer necessary.

Cross it out. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, cross out the verse 13 for this reason, anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says dumps are can do that does apply today in verse 22 tongues that are assigned not for believers but for unbelievers prophecy, however, is for the believer, not for the unbeliever of sorry cross that out as well. The next verse 23 so if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers commendably not say that you are out of your mind with your unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convicted by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all the secrets of his heart will be laid bare, so he will fall down and worship God.

Explaining God is really among you, sorry cross those out for today and go on and on like this. But here's the statement want to make what is a question what New Testament church teaching with present day church teaching invalidates large portions of the Bible the New Testament secessionism make people mad.

That's what I see because it take to go to first it is 14 and 12 and just in Romans 12 and just cross about because so they replied no. I believe the charismatic gifts are all for today and that they are being misused and that we need to depend more on the spirit of God.

We sometimes in our modern realm. Modern world we don't focus on the Holy Spirit's gifting is movement. We need the father to praise him.

We need the sun who redeems us.

We need the Holy Spirit who equips us and guides us and empowers us to move forward into the world. We need all of who and what God is in our lives. Let's get to Gabriel from Gastonia Gabriel, welcome your on the air rights for you to write. I argument on crediting the Bible because I will taken out of the Bible, how can we, you know Chuck that the Bible is the authoritative. And you know Dr. removed from the Bible and I was doing everything and it actually brought me article, Wiley reject the Apocrypha. I just wanted I get maybe more like a simplified explanation like a little bit confusing on the general idea.

Sure clarification will sure the first of all when someone says books are taken out of the Bible you say show me the proof from that his people say it doesn't mean it's true when it reports and it was so that the music you show me where the books were included in the early church with the Jews recognized him to talk about the Apocrypha you show me how the Jews accepted them as being Scripture and that the Christian church the Protestant church took about because that's the accusation and you'll find that it's not the case. They don't have a leg to stand on. This is just something that they're saying because they've been taught this lie and so they're saying it right you you promises just took the book of the show me the documentation for that and if the Apocrypha Scripture wise, the Jews rejected as Scripture is Apocrypha was written, between the book of Malachi and of the first book the New Testament that during a period of time is of the apocryphal books were written. So why is it that the Jews never consider them to be inspired and that's the issue. Furthermore, Jesus never quoted them as being inspired never did and so I didn't technically like there RIGHT that the art Old Testament. She New Testament means covenant just Latin testament of the Apocrypha is not part of the covenant not part of the covenant.

We revealed documents for the people of God. Israel apocryphal books are historical books worth examining the mark but they're not Scriptures are not considered to be Scripture clusters errors in them.

The command in Tobit six versus five and seven. The command to use magic and in Tobit for 11 goodness of sins by giving of money and were always giving the offering of money for the sins of the dead second Maccabees 12 so you know it's it's like no they're not inspired in the Roman Catholic Church officially ended in 1546 Rancho Catholics that they said no you guys took amount. Show me the documentation they don't like that. Now this is what it says.

Jesus said in Outlook 1151 he said the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who was killed between the altar and the house of God. He says now that's what he said for the blood of Abel, but of Zechariah blood of Abel is Genesis 481 of Zechariah the second Chronicles 2420 why did he say that seat for us in the modern arrangement of the Old Testament books we have Genesis being the first book we have Malachi being the last book that's not the chronological order assessment necessarily. The chronological order. The way the Jews had the Old Testament books arranged was Genesis and Chronicles is how they had arranged so important when Jesus is for the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah flexing for the first book to the last book of the character of the first book in the personal last book of the Old Testament. These things are lovable.

That's how it was back then. He did not include them. He did not include them in the yeah and the Canon and neither did the Jews are you welcome will. Goblins okay that was Gabriel from custodian we have for open lines. If you want to give me a call you to do is dial 877-207-2276 Alex from Orlando how are you doing there, Alex.

I did click the red button start this again. I was on Mr. Flick are you doing since your Mr. slick just thinking what a laugh just doesn't sound good but a little Alberto from Georgia okay okay buddy you got well my question of fact I got something going on with the character I work with the bill injured.

I'm Andrew want to try to maybe do a little due yeah Rappaport okay. Oh, he's such a loser when we show tonight you and you and I yeah I'll be on his meds thinks or reminded me of apologetics lives out nights at 8 o'clock Eastern time beyond earlier discussed the topic is Calvinism. The cult will ask for you on is going to get yet though. I'm talking about a conference regarding April right after that will you he mentioned that I'm in a talk yesterday.

Okay now good to know what buys me dinner will be viciously always I buy Andrew dinner. He's like he's bought like 50 dinners to my one that I got the whole story of sure you know about it outsmarted me so many times I call the jerk for that in the anyways all good fun. Okay okay switch which question so there's a certain area.

I'm not good at naming by all and that quoted from the transcript of the call and the man who filled out what was lacking in the afflictions of Christ, but that is that it absolutely is not on how to hear this again you have the bridge just because you folks be right back after this message is only 77 seven mass Y07 back on here with okay Alex, go for. Okay. Well Paul was a man who filled out what was lacking in the right that but that is actually an unbelievable statement. There's nothing lacking in the back which right in your lack all their Pat and in future arcade bike right click by Paul growth in stock into redemptive history and remember even at the passage from my go.okay Colossians 124 now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do not share my bed.

I do not my life because it not rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of his body, which is the church and filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions, so could you read it one more time yellow.

It was my kind and focus on the lot. The life you what all was a man who filled out what went lacking any affliction that is but that is an absolutely an unbelievable statement.

There's nothing lacking in the fact infliction right and left all of their Pat. I think in future arcade bike right affliction. But Paul throws himself into redemptive history and remember even at at my ankle.okay I think it was getting much of the lessons is interesting.

What exactly is the Isaiah passage that he was referencing because Isaiah 63 nine all the reflection he was afflicted in his eyes and 53 you know that wiki wiki bore stripes or buyers forever healed anymore since so generally how this is understood is is to say correctly.

As he said there's nothing lacking in what Christ has done on the cross was finished out the teletype. John 1930 so nothing lacking in his legal redemptive work on the cross.

It was done perfectly since it says here. Colossians 124 which is bought with most commentators, and I I go with us to most of it or say is that since we are Christ's body, there is a lack of the completion of the afflictions that are underway in the body of Christ as Christians are afflicted, murdered, killed, silenced, censored, etc. and that this is all part and parcel of what it means to be in Christ. This is not going to finish and not be done until the return of Christ, so that's what I believe the Scripture here is talking about.

So when he was saying, you know, there's nothing lacking Christ affliction. In that sense that's correct in the wood Christ and the cross, but it's the last sentence that to me as it is unclear. I'm not exactly sure what he saying Paul Crow consultant to grant the history wall redemptive history and with the resurrection of Christ. It may or may not redemptive history because we are redeemed and yet the full work of the redemptive act of Christ is not yet manifested in that our glorified bodies has not, have not fully been manifested. That's part of the redemptive work so we could say in that sense, no it's not completed, we could save in another sense will yes it is completed because liquids like you said when he was resurrected. That's the proof of the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of the validity of the sacrifice is completed at that point. So yes, I think both of those are valid, it just what is he mean when he says Paul threw himself into redemptive history. I don't. I probably don't want yeah yeah let me give you little mark on so before and after that she equating all almost level right he is having a high view of all and should have a high view pointing that yeah yeah and and not document probably should have either probably coming tomorrow back absolutely wrote whatever 13 folks, the New Testament, but you know the point that when you start convoluted Paul between Christ and and and kind of making that confusing for the members and the way he said things and then we need to we need you be like Paul, we need to do what Paul said we don't do what Paul did exactly as he did in the Bible, one that we are not doing what we should be doing as Christian. If you understand what I'm thanks yes there's more to this Paul says in verse 2416 therefore exalt the sort you be imitators of me. So Paul is actually says be imitators of him and he says in first with love and one be imitators of me just as I also am of Christ. So I know Paul's words are just as inspired as the words of Christ, Peter's words or just get fired because the same Holy Spirit is there among them all. And so that's what level of inspiration. This this is not an easy thing to you have to either the similarity would be by this weighted by that and thought you had a baby were to something better might say that as executive met who knows but just not sure what he means. I can't say good or bad yeah and sure sure charitable of the iPAQ year earlier.

The sermon on the current 80 and the contact W you you look at yourself and then you can fell because what I think is happening he is trying to make Paul to the same level of Christ, and he's using it against the members of this church tonight in all things legalistic. That same level of Christ in what sense like Christ our Lord. That Paul is Lord equally with Christ and the compassion would say that so long legal youth you can think of it, sermon and contract and any you. I'd be curious to hear what you say after you with the whole pregnancy.time that they go through before I called the show. I only had that one are but there is a big ongoing issue in my area search and and you know me and my wife just left it very legalistic, very dangerous and it preying on people in the church and anywhere we've allowed you out personally what you do is document these things are very careful about Matthew 18 your obligation. That is, if this is a dangerous church and the problems you can just leave dystrophy you go or and or you can gather information and then deal with the that the sin that is there. Go to the elders first and say this is a problem because if you talk to anybody else about that church.

You have to go to them first, the elders of the tribe Artie does not then if they've rejected this and you better make sure you're right by talking to other elders of make sure this all legitimate. Then you can then go to the body of Christ bring this up is a procedure to go through yeah okay yeah… More here and I've got a lot of other people involved and yet we had a good day. It's a shame that I mean honestly that the interview that the people I've talked you're coming out of there in a heavy legalistic environment. It it's grieving it terrible and you've had people calling you and you seeing things like that as a church and the church in Meridian Idaho that I've known about that. I've met with some of the ex-members of the church and its atrocities that you know the the abuse that went on in spiritual abuse church actually ever more happy than Ken blue BLUEI think his name is wrote a book healing from spiritual abuse.

I think it is written like 30 years ago, but it's good book yet about helping others with searches that abused and recovering churches from Turkey that if you write you now E and O are you and I wrote the book.

I do counseling people who've been through.

Abuse abused abusive churches in the solution is always to have them turn their eyes to Christ and yeah yeah – I sold my wife. I can admit I can get back down there and outcompete the paper when he had little more information go outside the church that I walked in I know I'm a Christian church.

As I passed a literature go by lifting with the rest that when you get a chance to get in the middle of a lot of research a lot of preparation for something, okay, but okay brother why diver goblins, right let's get to Todd from West Virginia Todd welcome you on here about how are you pretty good at picking a check. Good thing for a guy got a quick question latest. I'm just now starting to study on on thrones. Okay hand I was.

I was wondering is it a good argument when one Pentecostal dork anyone else. This oneness comes up with that little Jesus sat on the father's throne so therefore there the frame. It is it a good argument to say that that heaven is the throne that is spoken of in there when you look at Isaiah 66 one well, we don't have a sense illegal to this heaven is my throne. It is my footstool. That's just poetry. It's a poetic in its exaggeration representation heaven God is and set on heaven particulars as are three heavens and the first heaven is where the error is in the birds and the clouds a second heaven with the sun, moon and stars. The third heaven is God's dwelling place was heaven is my throne, it would seem as though talk of the third heaven, and occupancy can build a house for me so I was in a debate recently and it's an honor with a oneness person who said usually one throne in heaven. Hence one person and ask God not a Trinity and I called him. Revelation 321 Jesus says he who overcomes I will grant to to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my father on his throne.

So there's two great thrones, right there that's Revelation 321 so right that correct quick sure where it says that where it says that it after speaking of that, then if they show when they show that I was wondering if it was a different all all went when they went.

When he speak when it does speak of one throne would be speaking of heaven as that throne and not at Isaiah know that it speaks so is the absolute extent of write about but also it other places where like the throne of note where Israel is the throne of David. Different places where throne this week is recommended you take the word throne you find the Bible was a blue letter Bible.com city can find the original word either Hebrew ventures, only one word or two words that are translated in the English throne.

See how many times it occurs in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament and write out an outline of the kinds of meanings. It has different contexts.

That's what you do, you have to get a full semantic domain of all users all over consult. Try that. I got most of the quick dollar for the Lord bless you and never will be on the politics live.com another program powered by the Truth Network