A Talk With Lee Strobel

The cuticle of the Russian nightmare know the devil's nightmare here from it's time to mount up challenging men step into their true manhood. Your chosen Truth Network podcast is starting in just a few seconds. Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening to the truth. Podcast network. This is good Truth Network welcome to man talk brought to you by T8 W CM is talking and walking Christian men's ministry where they are devoted to breaking down the walls of race, age, challenging them to take their God assigned as our host will Hardy and Roy Jones Junior a black eye and a white welcome back, author, journalist, attorney Pastor Lee Strobel.

We welcome to the show. Margaret and you know Lee you are a man who is world known. But for our listeners and I know most of our listeners know or have no love you but for though the few who don't. Could you just saw to give us a brief overview of your journey to Christ. I like my background in journalism law.

So I my wife was agnostic or spiritually confused, she met a woman who is a Christian and a nurse they became best friends brought her to church and answer questions and finally my wife gave me the bad news I should become a Christian. I thought I was divorced but decided to take my journalism training and legal training from the skull that you so I began to investigate the resurrection recognized even as an atheist.

That's the linchpin of the date and look at that and other evidence for Christianity for about two years until I concluded it would take based on the avalanche of evidence that I saw it would take more faith to maintain my atheism to become a Christian scale just to decisively in favor of Christianity sought. That's when I repented of my sin receive forgiveness from Christ became follower of shares in my life began to change for the good is my wife and eventually left journalism I been legal editor of the Chicago Tribune and went into full-time opportunities to share the good news of Jesus and the evidence for who he is. My entire life. That's my focus my life. You know that's the thing that I like about you Lee in reading some of your books and the approach that you you took you. You follow the evidence and and it was that determination of wherever the and evidence leads me yeah and if it leads me to the point of acceptance.

Then I will accept based on the evidence so I know a lot of our listeners are probably pondering it, or have gone through some things in their life similar to that. So I think that you could be that and we don't like using this road word or phrase, but use it anyway role model for them in the sense that that they could just take take that stand and just say let me do my investigation and and see where it leads me yeah I want the mother does have a strong underpinning of reliability that we can show from science and cosmology, biochemistry, genetics, and then the evidence of history and historicity of the Bible, as well as the resurrection of Jesus. So the Christian faith is not based on wishful thinking or make-believe or legend biology. It's really based on a solid foundation of historical and scientific yes click quite soon. Explain that Black Mountain was phenomenal. He walks us through all that is you think back about just the body of Jesus. Right you with all the soldiers that were around soldiers guarding the tomb that they could never produce body was the whole was just a great piece of evidence and in the whole journey right yeah I mean you know we've got the evidence first execution adapters so strong that even the American Journal of the American Medical Association confirmed that he died during prescription and we have the empty tomb that even the opponents of Jesus admitted was empty. We have early accounts of his resurrection to come within months of his stepfather. I believe too early to be just like you and then we got nine ancient sources inside and outside the Bible confirming a corroborating the conviction of the disciples that they encountered the resurrected Jesus a lot of evidence just for the resurrection. So Jesus didn't just claim to be the son of God back up that claim by returning from the dead talk show was to give you have to chat about your new book so we can like lead into that. If it's okay or tell us about the case for heaven. What prompted you to write this book well.my wife on the unconscious on the bedroom floor called an ambulance.

I woke up in the emergency room, the doctor looked at me and said you're one step away, by two steps away from dying and then I fell unconscious again.

I had a unusual medical condition called hyponatremia, which is a severe drop in my blood sodium level and I offered on that between life and death until the doctors were finally able to save my life and that I find to be very clarifying experience when you're in that position, then you don't know if this is your final moments and in this world you really want to be sure what happened you know I was a Christian. So I believe what the Bible teaches. But as I say I got skeptical background and I thought you know how I know this science confirm what the Bible talks about in terms of an afterlife.

What is apt to say about it and then one of the research and I delve into so that's what started me on this journey to investigate the evidence for the afterlife. And that is what ultimately resulted in my new book, the case for heaven's also leave when you know through that experience, click what was the thing that about having heaven. I think that was the most appealing to you. Well you know I can be a logical person and certainly the idea I like you know the Bible says no I just see no ears heard, no mind conceived of what God has planned for those who love them so you know it's it's gonna be literally at an inconceivable place, so joy and satisfaction, love and fulfillment, and so forth. But for me coming across the evidence from neuroscience support that supports what the Bible says was to me and in a very rational way. Among the most compelling stuff that I encountered a person's you I was a skeptic about near-death experience. I thought those were just hallucinations or oxygen deprivation to the brain or something, and what I learned is there but 900 scholarly articles published in scientific and medical publications over the last 40 years, nine yeah exploring the sin. So it's a very well researched area and even the Lancet, which is the prestigious British medical Journal said that none of these alternative explanations for near-death experiences are able explain them away.

And so I looked at what I could corroborate no these people because you know the Bible says the answer for the body to be present with the Lord. And so what the Bible teaches that when we die our soul or spirit separate from our physical body and goes to either be in the presence of God in paradise or separated from God in 80 and then the second phase of heaven begins at the end of history. When Jesus returns were united with the resurrected bodies we go to final judgment and then we spend eternity in either very physical heaven or a very physical hell. And so this idea that our spirit, our consciousness separates from our body at the time of death, I found out that we have good corroboration, but that's true, how do we know well give you an example of a woman named Maria who died in the hospital of a heart attack and yet she said later, I was fully conscious the whole time I watch them try to reset my body, my spirit floated outside the hospital in winter spirit returned to her body.

She was revived. She said oh by the way, on the on the roof of the hospital. There's a man's tennis shoe in his left foot.

It is dark blue somewhere over the little toe and shoelaces ducked under the heel and so went up to the roof of the hospital and found it exactly 120 example of confirmation that indeed our spirit, our soul survive our clinical data simply one of the things class. The last was just an outline who was the most unique individual.

You met this project looking to footnotes at the back of the book you have so many different resources that you research through this project. Well I will one is John Burke, the pastor in Austin Texas who is research your experiences for 35 years to study a thousand cases and most fascinating about him is that he determined that if you look at what actually happened. Near-death. It is consistent with what the Bible teaches about the afterlife, so that power. Yes, I got an opportunity to be the last person to interview the famous evangelist Luis Palau before he died. Luis was sort of the Billy Graham of Latin America shared with a billion people over his lifetime did festivals and crusades all around the world and that he knew he was dying of stage IV lung cancer and I was a friend of his and he was a hero mine.

I just thought the world of them and so I went out to spend the day with him before he died and just talking to a solid Christian news about the past and the app in his perspective and his attitude was very powerful.

The one thing he told me that I'll never forget again is plastic die looked at me steadily you know when you get to the end your life and all is said and done, you will never regret being courageous price and I thought that the powerful lesson this well that is something that needs to be echoed many many disaster listeners and to audience week after week will and you know lead.

I think that's the that's the thing when it quickly comes to people in general and perhaps nonbelievers. More specifically, it is this fear of not knowing where they're going to go after they leave this life.

So it's that it's that fearful. So with coming up on a break, but when we come back we want to continue our conversation with Lee Strobel you all listeners go out and get the books case for the grace of case for faith.

The case for Christ case for heaven and a case for miracles.

If I could get some more breath to keep going on but he is a phenomenal writer. We just want you to go here and go out to you, CM and would love to have you join their community of men for breakfast every first and third Friday of every month, Bible discussions and fellowship after the best breakfast in town meeting location is in their voracious poster First Christian Church in Kernersville, 1130 N. Main St. encouraged him a hard start at 7 o'clock on a hard stop at 8 o'clock. First time visitors eat for free. Join your host will party Roy Jones Junior, a black guy in a white guy affordable chiropractic in High Point.

As you might tell from their name, affordable chiropractic, even for the cash. Patient Dr. Jeff Ricky has been caring for patients in High Point for 34 years, physical therapy, such as ultrasound and spinal decompression for disc conditions such as herniation conference of care for auto accident injury patients with no out-of-pocket expense. Remember, affordable chiropractic on the W. Lexington Ave. in High Point Hall 336-885-1987. Praise the Lord hallelujah glory to his name. We are here with Lee Strobel and the conversation is been great. Right before the brightly. We were talking about his phobia and an fear of death. How it in your words, how do you Talking to our listeners.

How should they cope if they if they have a loved one that's going through death or they themselves are going through it, how what words could you give them to to cope with that experience is very common even David in Psalm 55… Yet you talk about how his enemies were harassing him and in verse four he said my heart pounds in my chest but care of that this alternate so it's common for people to have beer that, but the Bible talks about a cure for that.

And it's funny to verse 15 where it says Jesus set free all who have lived their lives as slaves.

The fear of dying, so a robust view of Jesus in him and his teachings. I believe can help help us cope with this fear that we have a guy now you know the first verse I memorizes a new Christian was the first John 513 says these things are written to you who believe in the name of the son of God. As you may know that you have eternal life.

Jesus done what you in a state of apprehension or uncertainty or anxiety over where you stand with them you want to know for sure that you spend eternity with him and I believe we can know for sure we confess our sins and turn from that and received Jesus as I forgive her and leader and or and or adopted as his child, which we have confidence that we can spend eternity with him in heaven. And then we look at what Jesus talked about when it came to heaven, you know. The Bible says we can conceive of heaven basically don't mind is conceded to use a lot of figurative language but I love the way the John chapter 14 talk to the disciples at their place but basically a guy. Don't be afraid of death. Don't freak out. He said in my father's home. There are many rooms for you and uses imagery of a whole, and I think that such a powerful metaphor because you know when you think about dying. You think about this imagery of home you've ever traveled. You probably have a country difficult situations I been like for you know in South India for long period of time sleeping on the ground and living out of a backpack and eating strange foods and so forth, and you begin to homesickness and you want to go all you want to and then when you finally walk into your own home and you climb in your own bed at such a place of warpage security and log in and so forth, in and Jesus is saying that the metaphor I want you to hang onto some of you think I'm leaving this world you know it's home that's going to be our home for a lot longer in eternity that are old, but I think that such a wonderful metaphor of comfort and joy and and and so forth.

So I just love the way he uses that imagery to me. I find it very comforting. That's really specially thank you so much for sharing with you Smits and the lady who had the outer body experience in which you what was another situation that you researched or taught spoke with an individual that was really impactful. Similarly, as this lady had gone through yeah well I probably 20 examples in my book of stories like that documented medical journals.

For instance, there's a woman from Atlanta Georgia who at great ship bleeding in her brain here and have a very radical surgery so they cooled her body to 60°. They drained every drop of blood. Three tests showed she had zero brainwave. She wasn't breathing. No heartbeat.

She was clinically dead and so keep your eyes shut for the surgery and they put earplugs in her ears with 100 dB of noise which is the equivalent of being extra subway train going past and yet that I was conscious the whole time of this surgery and how do we know what the corroboration well. She was able to describe the highly unusual surgical tools that were used in her surgery. This one American. She described the conversation that took place during the surgery where one nurse that we have a problem or the arteries are too small and another nurse I will try the other way even describe the music that was playing in the background during the surgery and or playing hotel California frame the election anyway. There's a Christian philosopher running a J.P. Moreland was a famous philosopher. He said just this one case should be enough to convince any open-minded seeker of truth that there is a heaven, there is an afterlife and she described going through a tunnel being in the very light of God in you think this is one case is enough to document that there is indeed an afterlife. Well, that's fantastically. I want to switch gears for minute because I don't my small group members clobber me for not get for not giving a question and but in your book case for miracles. One of the questions that members wanted to address was when you left the interview with Dr. Michael Shermer what what what did you feel or what was going through your mind after you finish that interview because we spent a lot of time on the three chapters. Yeah, I thought miracles I should start off by going to the biggest skeptic in America.

The editor skeptic magazine founder skeptic magazine by Dr. Michael Shermer and find out from him why he doesn't believe in miracles. So I gave him the first basically the first three chapters of the book to lay out his case against miracles and when I walked out of there.

I thought, number one, you can make a very good case against miracles and number two he did raise some issues that were worth checking out. And so the rest of the book kind of I interview scholars and experts who kind of answer. The objections that he raises Francis, he said it out that none of the studies that have been done about miracles really prove that your steak place, and yet you know he conveniently doesn't mention the study in Mozambique that was done by a PhD from Harvard University, where they went to Mozambique where the outbreak of supernatural healing and he and and they went to remote villages and got all the deaf and blind people together and tested them scientifically right there to determine the level of vision, insight, then they were prayed for in the name of Jesus and then they were immediately tested again to see if he is there any difference and I found that there was improvement in virtually every case. In fact so dramatic and some of the cases, like a woman, a Martin when they first met or couldn't hear the equivalent of a jackhammer next door and yet after 10 minutes of prayer in the name of Jesus she could hear normal conversation as this is a study that's been published in a secular scientific peer-reviewed medical journalist is a valid scientific study into the miraculous. They also replicated the study got the same result. In Brazil, which is another place where this supernatural healings are breaking and we tend to see that in areas of the world where the gospel is just beginning to get a foothold in a new culture, God uses the miraculous to point people toward him. So I think that Dr. Shermer break some interesting objections but I think the rest of the book response to those and also presents the affirmative case that indeed God is still in the miracle does a week when we got to the miracle of Barbara.

We were just all blown away. I mean we we had group members just naming up, praising God and no dummy. Just from reading the book we was a phenomenal lead. We've just got a few more minutes and would force him to say thank you so much for joining us German. I want to just turn personal for just a moment. If it's okay. Will knows to her two friends. We have two friends that are got terminal cancer. Both of one's new believing last two years came to know the Lord blessed to have years with praise God that the Evans long-term believer in SF THROUGH the past but that is come back this Thomas terminal I'd like if you don't mind actually got 20 listeners out that if I fight in the same same problem right now and the women in life and in that hurdle, the term, or loved one, what with all your recent research and all the stuff you guys put on your hard been able to articulate in written form and lectures.

What would be a few things it if you were talking to your loved ones that you would share about heaven about that that upcoming journey in and just fall right in line behind the release of your book of love you share for these men in their lives that are going through this battle yeah well you know the greatest news about heaven is Israel. The greatest news about heaven is that we can trust the words of Jesus that because of his love for us because of his grace because of his having made us in his image and wants to invite us to spend eternity with them.

Heaven is can be a place of wonder and joy and satisfaction and fulfillment that we can even imagine in this world. In fact, there's a quote in my book from the famous preacher Charles Spurgeon that really changed my perspective on going to have an end. These people with terminal cancer are going to be, you know, before long, in the presence of God himself, and this is what Spurgeon said. He said the very glory of heaven is it we shall see him, that same Christ died on Calvary's cross, that we shall fall down and work if it is well with you. Please get ready to wrap up if you like to close us in prayer yeah will hold with the second closing session. Yeah. Difficult to give us the hope of an art. Please read your firm will spend eternity with him in a place of unbelievable joy in Jesus make a man live in such a pleasure to have with you.

Please give your wife of this note will hold with his second closing serve as we wrap up today show. Be assured that TA W CMM talking and walking Christian men's ministry is building a community of men Christ followers with a desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events of regularly scheduled meeting is a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on man talk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com men walking the talk. This is the Truth Network