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Genesis 1 and Jewish Interpretation

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Cross Radio
September 9, 2022 1:42 pm

Genesis 1 and Jewish Interpretation

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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September 9, 2022 1:42 pm

The Line of Fire Radio Broadcast for 09/08/22.

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The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Let's revisit the Hebrew text of Genesis 1 for the light a fire with your host Google scholar and cultural commentator Dr. Michael Brown your voice for more savvy and spiritual clarity 34 truth to get him a lot of fire and now there's your host Dr. Michael Brown. It is thoroughly Jewish Thursday now coming your way from the mercy culture Studios in Fort Worth rewritten Dallas CFI earlier in the week.

Now overhear mercy culture in Fort Worth absolutely delighted to be with you having an awesome time teaching students of the schools about Jesus revolution.

I am pumped from public is run the air together that's thoroughly Jewish Thursday.

So here's the phone number to call 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-3487 84 any Jewish related question of any kind that you have send it my way about the Hebrew Bible about Jesus being the Messiah of Israel about messianic prophecy about the state of Israel today about Judaism or Jewish tradition. Yeah we we take questions on Islam as well. Non-Islamic expert that I can answer a lot so I just recall on that now.

So phone lines are open 866-3487 84.

I'm scheduled to be on the air tonight with vocab Malone, who does a lot of apologetics and she's been interacting with the book that is come out by a former believer in this role, believers challenging Christians about the authority inspiration of Scripture. So I've been asked to come with vocab and talk about some of the issues that come up and into the basic issues there things we been discussing for centuries in many ways, but as people of questions it's it's good it's fair to to address the questions and seek to answer these things so that's why God Genesis 1 in mind in Hebrew and it's really really interesting to see the amount of controversy that surrounds the opening chapter of the opening chapters of Genesis, but especially the first chapter. What's not controversial is the overall message every body agrees that Genesis 1 is telling us that God created the universe, one God, not Manny created the entire universe, and he did it by his sovereign power by speaking things into existence. There were no competing gods. There are no powers that are equal to God. Everything has a beginning, except God. This is good or not you can debate a thousand other things within the text will open up some of them but what's indisputable is what is taught and that's why it's there, it's there to teach us about God, the creator. That's why it's there and when we understand the motivation for being in the Bible.

The reason it's in the Bible is not so much to give us scientific information is not why it's there explained that minute. It's there to teach us about God.

It's there to teach us about his attributes.

It's there to teach us about him is creator.

Whether you were convinced based on the Bible and science we should believe the youngers or if you're convinced based on the Bible and science that we should believe in an old earth.

Either way, the message is the same God and God alone is the creator and order of this universe and the one who brings light out of darkness and order out of chaos and create human beings in his image and it makes everything after its own kind. That's the God who is revealed here. And the reason that the ancient world wrote their cosmologies wrote their explanations of the origin of the universe that the reason they did. It was not primarily to talk about science or here's how we got the trees near so we got people and so on and so forth, is to teach about the gods that they worshiped.

If you read the ancient Babylonian creation account a new mail-ish it's it's all about the conference between the gods and this will rise up a supreme God. That's primarily why the text were there now you say will why do I say that Genesis 1 was, not the Bible primarily to teach us scientific information that I'm not saying it's scientifically inaccurate or not accurate. I'm not saying it teaches younger or older, absolutely making a statement that its primary purpose in the Bible was not to teach us about science. Why do I say that because if that was the case then until relatively recent times. Every generation in history would've thought the Bible was wrong up until 500 something years ago when it was widely believed throughout the world that the sun went around the earth within the earth around the sun. If if the Bible instead of if the Bible is heliocentric so that everything goes around the sun if it taught that then. For centuries people have said the Bible is wrong because we all know and science tells us that the song goes around the earth will that was wrong. That was not accurate but that's what the whole world is believed for millennia. There other things that science believes today that it did believe 100 or 200 or 300 years ago that the day will come, and will look back to the Darwin error and realize how much error was in that there was a time before Darwin a time after Darwin.

So here I give an example. Never seen an old picture of yourself. Maybe you and your spouse you and friends like I can't believe those styles night while they were stylish then there was the so if you're in a be stylish for it for the year 2022. But you live in the year 1850 and you put on the style is 2022 author people like where you from Mars and so who are you what are you wearing right hairdos, different things like that or take so that was stylish in the 1850s were today. People like you in a costume party. Reporters and Broadway play as well. You dress like that. So the point is styles change. The point is also scientific opinion changes so we know certain things out yet we know that there's goes around the sun, but for millennia, people didn't believe that if the Bible categorically taught God made universe. This way, and he made the earth to go around the sun. Everyone would think the Bible was wrong so the soil administered it well did the matter hundred years ago or two or five or thousand. The intent of it was, not to give scientific information.

The intent was to teach us about God have all the scientific debate you want. I'm not saying not to. But the point is, this is to teach us about who God is and how he operates now it's really interesting is the opening words. So if you read it in a traditional Christian Bible you read in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth or the heaven and the earth. If you will read it in some of the ancient versions so the Septuagint translating from Hebrew into Greek.253 years before the time of Jesus. That's when Genesis would've been translated the Septuagint renders it similarly does say though, but it's in beginning which meet in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth right so the Hebrew price sheet from Elohim, etc. my avatar.

It's the Greek NRK a poison hot sauce starts there right in the beginning God created heavens are the same in the beginning that you have in John 11 NRK in the beginning right if if you look in the Aramaic Targum so this is the Aramaic translation/paraphrase of the Hebrew Bible. This was extant on some level in Jesus day.

It also begins in the same way with in the beginning. If you look at the Vulgate syndromes translation from Hebrew into Latin. Few hundred years after the time of Jesus fourth century.

So same thing in Procopio and Prichard Beale Accra, but that was it. In the beginning God creates it in in Aramaic because mean broad and I watch my VR is say so it's is all the same's in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. However, for long periods of time in Jewish interpretive tradition has read it differently and and there are there are strong arguments that have been made about this very thing. Grammarians, Hebrew scholars have argued for an alternate translation now under reach you from the new JPS version. When God began to create heaven and earth as if it said pray she brought Elohim at subscriber targets or just a different way of reading the traditional tech spreadsheet for when God began to create heaven and earth. Notice that the words is not there Hebrew, the results he in the beginning, literally in beginning or by way of beginning. So another way to read that when God began to create heaven and earth, the earth being uninformed and void with darkness of the surface of the deeper the wind from God would. That's how it's translator the spirit of God, sweeping over the water. God said then God said, let there be lights so it's not even telling you that this is at the beginning of time. It simply say when God began to do this.

This is this is what he did this, what he was working with and this is our producer so there is been a large discussion and debate among translators for centuries.

So if you go back to the to the, the principal Jewish interpreters and in the 11th and 12 centuries of this is in the.

The prescientific modern error. This is in the time it was still believe that the the someone around the earth. They translated this differently. I have read massive scholarly debates about this and I still see arguments each way. I have not landed dogmatically on in the beginning God created versus when God began to create massive arguments and then there are nuances of the other translations of the second one I just gave in and how to read that.

But here's what I want to draw to your attention, John Lennox, who is a brilliant scholar PhD in mathematics, science in Oxford, Cambridge trained teachers at the schools great great scholar great Christian man, strong apologist. He has a terrific book on on Genesis 1 following a seven days a change the world.

It it's it's it's it's a really excellent read. He's a terrific academic, but he breaks things down in ways that people can understand and and he he has some really interesting quotes he's quoting from former chief rabbi of United Kingdom Jonathan Sacks and he caught some different scholars a Rashi who is the foremost medieval commentator for strict counter. With 1040, 1105 this is what he said about Genesis I's remedies writing this a thousand years over thousand years ago. The text does not intend to point the order of the acts of creation, the text is not by any means teach which things were created first and later wants to teach us what was the condition of things at the time and have the earth was without form, science, science, calls quickly, stay right here is the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Is Dr. Michael Brown songs the Third Reich with somebody John Cooper right before the show so shout out as oldster friends in skillet 866-34-TRUTH I mean Lucas to see your next will be going to the phones momentarily forgot usually to question great time to call. Now I should be able to get your call if you get from now before I get a line here before the show is over. Okay so back to back to what some of the. The rabbis have said about Genesis I long before the modern scientific debate this Maimonides who lives 1135 to 1204, he said, on the one hand, the subject of creation is very important, but on the other hand, our ability to understand these concepts is very limited. Therefore God describe these profound concepts which is divine wisdom found necessary to communicate to us using allegories, metaphors and imagery is been outlining metaphors that the masses can understand according to their mental capacity while the educated take it in a different sense and he says the account given in Scripture of the creation is not as is generally believed intended to be in all its parts. Literal three was a great intellectual philosopher and codified law in his day, but he's not saying this from a scientific viewpoint.

He saying this from his understanding of Scripture how it's being conveyed in an and larger issues involved. I'm just laying this out to say that we were asking questions about Genesis I's a copout and will try to ignore what science is noted Genesis I transcend science doesn't teach accurately can be taken literally.

Other items for. That's a separate debate which I'm happy to have. Let's understand why it's there.

If the Bible is a scientific textbook, it wouldn't change our lives. It would save us from our sins. The Bible is not a scientific textbook if he intends to teach science that I would say what it intends to teach us to be accurate because as the word of God.

But is it intending to teach science here that's the other question there. There are Jewish traditions that some of these going back to 1800 Years Again Way back 2000 years. Six. Interviews way back before modern scientific debate right some salve the age of the Earth's now would be gone €6000 5700 and change, but there are there others that have the earth as 40,000 years old, some 50 200,000 years old and some some medieval Jewish mystics added as between 900,002.5 billion years old so there debating Hogarth old earth, having nothing to do with science.

Listen to what Origen said that he read Scripture allegorically we understand that second century scholar when the great scholars of the early church then rejected later for some of his remote universalistic views and things but Origen said this again prescientific, 1900 years ago.

What intelligent person can imagine that there was a first end and a second day in a Thursday evening and morning without the sun, the moon and stars and and and that the first day if it makes sense to call it such existed, even without a sky who is foolish enough to believe that like you regard the God plans the garden Eden in the East and placed in it.

A tree of life, visible in physicals that by biting into its fruit will retain life and that by eating from another tree woman comes in a good medieval and oneness of the goblets and the guard in the evening of Adam himself in a tree. I can imagine anyone will doubt that these details point symbolically to spiritual meanings, but using historical narrative which should not literally happen. Okay, so what's the point.

Origen believed in a literal Adam and Eve origin believed in a literal fall origin believed in little redemption through the cross origin believed that sin entered into the world and all of that. But in his view, the Bible clearly this painting this in pictures to tell the story of the pictures, not literal pictures that a literal tree of knowledge. It symbolizes something that you may reject that entirely. That's fine. You might say no, no, it to be accurate. It had to be a literal trio be a little snake and how to be literal 70s.

I'm not arguing that don't don't argue that point with me here.

That's not what we're discussing. All I'm saying is long before there was a dispute about science and the Bible 21st century 20th century science and the Bible. What we understand scientifically versus Genesis I are in harmony with just one long before there was any such debate. There was discussion among church leaders among Jewish leaders about how to understand these chapters and many said of its obviously being told in the story fashion to convey a point that God is the creator that that this is overall how he creates that human being send in rebel and some would argue that the reason some of the imagery is used in the snake and things is to take away the myth and the polytheism because in the ancient world. These are all different gods analysis, they consist it innovates to say one God only and shout that out to the world. So when people get all worked up, and losing faith. There was Genesis I literal. Not, I say, you're missing the whole point and we had young earth creationist on the old earth creationist. In fact, we got some amazing younger scholars that he would be joining us gobbling in months to come, and her older friends always welcome your so we always have. Those debates are very happy to discuss that but that is secondary to these issues. Okay, last thing and then I go straight to the phones which Onyx also points out that's really interesting is that literally when you're going through the days of creation. It's day one, then second, a Thursday fourth, 1/5 day.

Then the six day then the seventh day so why doesn't it say first day, second and third it was a say. Day one than for that second third fourth etc. why is it you note ordinal Cardinals of the soul. The same, and then why the six day and the seventh day is a summit signals a part of his ministry differently. There are all kinds of interesting questions to ask and I say as we ask let us get deeper into the text to say what God, what are you trying to teach us about yourself and about us because that's why it's in the Bible. All right we go to the phones. Let us start in Atlanta with Amin, thanks for holding and welcome to the line of fire doing very well thank you, are the little a little bit on your Scripture that what you're talking about I do with what one basic and you debate a while about with not and you know they have the very Bible or doubtful that we have evidence that you know they say Mohammed in Deuteronomy.

They are John and Molly claim and might. My question is, when you deal with them. How do you I guess keep you, but a level head and keep vanity when you can repeatedly show them that there replication and that there illusion our drug objectively long, yet they continue to deny you yeah…, Click. Nothing yet. It's it's it's challenging, after decades of having sophisticated in depth debates with rabbis wrestling with the text going back and forth.

They make their point. I respond with my good points.

We debate the Hebrew back-and-forth having sophisticated intellectual challenging in depth debates of some convince from the side of truth in these debates. It was quite a shock for me to start debating some of these Islamic arguments because they were so ridiculous they were so utterly bizarre.

I told one of my friends who does Islamic apologists. I said I guess I just didn't get a good debater and and he must've picked weeks, but he said no that's that's easy to refute all of it was his position, but aside from he completely lied to by putting the deer completely misrepresented himself to organization, both before and after the debate, but I mean it was mind-boggling amount courting facts in Hebrew is going to quote Newsweek or something and it was mind-boggling and then the inconsistency of them say well the Bible you have is corrupt on the Bible you have points to model what is it corrupt or not, you know. But if the arguments are so unbelievably weak. Deuteronomy 18 explicitly rules out the possibility of Mohammed the is a arguments same to serve the Lord identify with Israel coming from Israel and with the specific mission first to Israel, then the nations etc. that disqualifies Mohammed the idea that the Jesus was referring to the spirit that you be referring to Holland or to find one Hebrew word that similar to to the two amount cited in the same but similar llamas will say what I must be prophesy the Bible because the Bible talks about Michael.

You know so how do you maintain send it. What would you have to do is obviously not keep reaching out to those whose hearts are hard numbers of some as I can hear it since I just have to pray for them right. But the one thing you can try to do is find one little spot in their weakest area and just excuse me board about this.

I know much about what just keep coming back to force them to look at that. That's the only method I've seen in cases like this to just refuse to get to another point. But you have an answer that to at least let there be a little chink in the armor and then sometimes I mean, what happens is that one question opens them up to think as you can see in people's eyes, not listening.

The intelligent and occult members of that. They just have their program answers and then I'll say something. I can see a light just once this this is the Israeli that's what was your patient, loving you pray you had a thinking line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown 784 now in some people's books a month early Jewish because I'm a follower of Jesus there from the longer Jewish. Some of the rabbinic community would say that although that's not what run into for 50+ years limits us peeps in your Jew what you believe this, but in fact they look at the joke about that. If we take a couple calls up that I have those in the church same leisure follow Jesus you longer Jewish because because you lose that identity run for Depaul never got that memo when he identifies himself as a Jew, as a believer identifies himself as a Jew all 866-34-TRUTH all right for go back to the phones. The new book is out, came out Tuesday spent three days the political seduction of the church. How millions of American Christians have confused politics with the gospel. I don't know that I've written a book. Yet this is what I think number 43.

I don't know that I've written the book yet that came out in a more timely fashion that was released it in a more critical moments to be released and I want to be honest I I would've written the book. Alyssa felt it was important urgently.

Several stirred by God to write it a mandate to do it but I have to be honest, the responses I'm getting from people or, blowing me away even the first. Some of the first reviews being posted to spy readers. One gentleman who was high up in government intelligence for years. He he shot me a note when us in the book reading your book. Thanks. Fantastic. Recommend getting on so recommending it on social media to my pastor and friends a person.

Thank you thank you wrote this I been trying to get people to see the since 2000. Brilliant piece of work. That's exactly what I wrote the book so if you haven't got your copy it.

Go to Amazon order it if you've got a copy ready or the website is Dr. Brown.org. The e-book is been delayed should be any day. I keep hearing any date should been out when the book was released at any day you be able to get it in a form as well.

And if you've got the book ready or enjoying it posted on social me to post a picture tell people about it, or go to Amazon and post review.

If you have read the book some Italian, cute joke in the moment the first we go back to the phones of Lucas in Florida. Thanks for holding and welcome to the line of fire. You're welcome little about your direct your real body going along with me on how you write well. The order for your soon to be a student writing here, my apologies to or or other close. We did we do have the know and be able to call him within a few weeks from a call to to be truthful.

Lines are open for others to call into some days is very very busy so or call screener seven, stuff to deal with and focus on sometimes people call and it slips through a bit. But anyway, my apologies, because that's in violation of our rule which we do be fair to others and to open things up. Since the questions out. What's clear to me is when Messiah appears that our people had been crying out for his appearance and that they welcome him when he appears, that's what's clear to me from Zechariah 12 and from other passages. There's no question the Jewish repentance is key in ushering in the Messiah but will there be a national turning before he comes in which case, at last, we welcome you or will there be the recognition cry out as he appears that this is the one that we have been waiting for and how could we have crucified in the first time around that overall sequence is clear, the details of that. I just don't see Scripture laying out for us in advance. All right, 866-34-TRUTH. Let us go to Jesse in Twin Cities, Minnesota. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi Dr. Brown, so it was interesting that you where bringing up origin and universal doctrinal. My question is about interesting young no-hitter. I felt my question is about Lazarus and the rich man and how he get there, mostly pertaining to verse 26). And besides all of that between you and not as a great cat that fixed in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able and none may cross from there to now that the question is whether or not that hole in the final judgment and I will I in my mind I'm thinking that you can draw certain implication from this idea of Hades and in Abraham's bosom is sort of like a grander, there's a grander story behind that the final judgment, but I don't see any evidence to say that from the Universalist point of view that you can that after you served your pennant so to speak in a lake of fire that you can then cross over so this is the point that I made and I'm getting all sorts of different replies way.

Well, this is just a parable and I'm kinda wondering Mike okay so does not say anything about the afterlife or that work. Yes of these. These are all valid questions. Jesse number one just say that it's a parable will be a parable. The argument against it being a parable is that uses someone's name and Jesus doesn't do that in any of his parables.

The argument that it is a parable is that Lazarus is his name, meaning God help us, and therefore it's a picture of some of dependent on God but either way, the questions okay. What's this teaching us right. What's this teaching us if there is no life after death, or there.

There is no conscious state after death before the resurrection questions why is it there. There and to conscious state immediately after death, as opposed soul sleep want. Why confirm something that people believe that if it was false so that does raise those arguments but at the very least, okay, what does it teach and it does teach about a separation to come and it does teach that once it's done it's done a minute does seem clear. The principal is one can go from crossover Whiting say that why add that in to this description and less there's a message there. Then from there the larger argument is okay just show me any hint anywhere where eternal death or eternal destruction or eternal punishment is not just that and for those that that would argue against eternal conscious torment and argue for some form of annihilation or cessation of existence that works against universalism just as strongly right if I Am certainly even more strongly than eternal conscious torment because theoretically if if the soul is imperishable, so the souls can exist forever and ever and ever and ever and ever.

Then maybe after enough seasons of suffering or purging or purification or payment of sin, then you could switch over which unemployed for second. The Bible teaches, but if you cease to exist.

Right.

Matthew 1028. Don't fear those who can kill the body but can't kill the soul but rather for him who can destroy both soul and body. Also there is Jesus telling us God can destroy soul and body. So either of those are argue against the idea of some crossing over passing over the Rob Bell argument that that eternal punishment that punishment there means pruning. I mean, these are just arguments without any scriptural support so that the clear final state of the dead. The separation of a Daniel 12 to Sumter eternal life, others to to eternal shame and contempt, whether that means eternal conscious torment or their names forever being remembered and they either way it's it's final.

It's done.

It's over.

It's the end.

There is no crossing over so even though that's not the primary teaching here and in Luke 16. It's definitely a sub teaching. I agree with you in the observation that it's there to tell us what is done is done, you can't. You can't go back and undo it. You can cross over and fix it. That is just the reality whether there are absolute actually was a place that we preferred was Abraham's brother was in paradise and in those in paradise could see those suffering Hades with it's just illustration that can all be debated. But what are the lessons from it and lessons from it, and then the lack of texts that that that rebut the idea that the eternal punishment or suffering or penalty is anything but eternal. The lack of those really breaks down and remember whatever the punishment is in terms of duration. It's parallel to the to the life to the blessing right so eternal life if that's just a period of time, then we don't have eternal life soul. Yet the argument's breakdown and I think I think your point is fairly taken. I thank you so much Dr. Brown.

You are very very welcome appreciated 866-34-TRUTH okay so really good news.

We were basically at right about the limit for Israel tour because we couldn't get more rooms in one of the hotels in Jerusalem were able to get second boss and that's it. To buses that's limit that's that's his management take is we still deny it. I teach hundred people and settings to me feels very intimate, you know, so to be on the bus to hang out with different people day in day out have meals together to do night meetings and stuff feels very intimate with no between 1500 but just for us, were not taken more but we could return for finally really excellent hotel we were able to get extra extra rooms open up so we have room we have room but I'm going to be announcing the tour in some pretty major settings in the next few days and weeks so we could get a flood more people coming so if you if you think about coming. I know some you wanted to time.

This worker can afford it but if you think about me outside of best to sign up now right but we do have room. I am so glad to share that with you so go to the website and start to brown. ASK GR Brown.org you find info right on the homepage first or second slide that comes up. If you have questions about his family how to contact your office stated by the answer. Okay, we come back and tell you. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Is Dr. Michael Brown. I Thursday great to be with you today. Go back to the phone shortly will make another point of Genesis 1 tell you to choke and then back to the phones so you may hear will the Bibles borrowing from ancient recent creation accounts one of them you can get online and and and find texts and translations just readily available he not have all the academic editions of these things like I do in my library but the first thing you see is the striking differences. That's that's what it be like. It's like someone saying what God sport baseball. They they borrow that from soccer and both the balls and both have teams that win and lose in it and then you like what when you compare to what to they have in common. Almost nothing. So when you start to compare the things that's what jumps up at a so for example peeps at you but you have to home and inverse to the Haaretz isotope of over who should company the home so the earth was formless and void and and darkness was on the the face of the townhome. The deep the home that's borrowed from Babylonian Tiant and see him was one of the goddesses and and and the babbler creation account gets split in two and and and part of John is having parts on his earthly okay that this underscores my point here home is just if there was any connection with, which hold to be debate. It's a sign of things on the powers of deities on an entity is not an entity it's it's just think it's just Bowater said so the holder called the gods of the ancient world. Nothing here okay so there there is a old Jewish joke that there was this Jewish guy lived an entirely Catholic community in the days when you couldn't eat meat on Fridays as Catholic. Every Friday he would cook up on his barbecue delicious steak and it went through the neighbor. There was like God wants steak in the skies making me crazy for steak silly talk to the priestess it. Please father you got you got a convert disguise disparate is driverless car easy with this mistaken so the priest visits Jewish guy for months. After some months he converts and and comes Catholic and and no stake everybody's peaceful community. Then one Friday suddenly Texas mistake again and the priest comes over to the man's house and he said what you doing your your Christian now you can in sick on Friday because father-son steak that's that's that's fish.

He said that steak that's red meat, it's cooking.

Leesburg is not on the father that's that's not the son steak that's fish in the priestess what you talking crazy is not a father, I learned that from you simply mean you learn from the civil remember a few a few months ago a few weeks back you you you sprinkle me with water and use it to begin the language or your Christian pieces. So I went over to the sink and I sprinkle the steak with water, the signal or steak or fish there you have it that the first time I told a lot of far. If so, alright, let's go to a cello in Maryland.

Thanks for calling the line of fire by hello Dr. Brown I walked doing, looking around on the Internet but with Beckel about the orgy and I was curious about the Jewish timeline. The Jewish calendar that they use in a principled way back to creation me personally I don't think if we go totally back to creation, but I was wondering if you can comment on the accuracy of the calendar and just how long you been around is so the chronology that you'll find on Sabbagh.Ward is that of traditional Judaism right so it's a great site to go to to find out what traditional Jews believe so CHB a D for bod.Ward, and of course devoted to the teachings of the Lubavitcher cabbie who died in 1994 at the age of 92, and to this day among many of his followers is still hailed as the Messiah, but you will get traditional Jewish representation there so many times I'll do that when I want to refer someone in the last would usually about this or that. That would give you the traditional Jewish viewpoint now that the chronology goes back to work. Called Seder alarm Carbaugh so it's it's it's an earlier work and I'm just just curious to see here how ancient the debate and scholarship.

Yeah second century CE. It it it starts more recently at this angle adjustable all the way back to your creation, etc. in terms of the what makes it so important. Traditional Judaism, but it it it condenses the Persian. The Greek church a much shorter period of time. There's a discrepancy of 100 something years and was 200 years discrepancy switch shortens things but a lot of the chronology goes that for back to earlier I was reading some quotes indicating that you have different different rabbinic arguments and here the effect would be. We just grab this again. I was released earlier but there was no universal belief about this in the ancient Jewish world in terms of in terms of chronology, so there is a book by Adele Ginsberg, an article he's in the geological survey of Israel wrote an article on the age of the earth from today. Traditional literature John Lennox quotes it in his books and a reference the calculation of the earth's age based on ascribing approximately 40 years degeneration mentioned in the Talmud. Results of the total of 5740 years. From the birth of Adam birth" for modern scientists holding traditional viewpoints.

This dating is with the conflicts which are been explained by various semantic gymnastics. The most common of these is that the biblical six days of creation. Today's as we know them, but the vast periods of time.

However, an examination of the writings of Rabbi about who Rabbi by in the Talmud and midrash so this is over 1500 years old.

A suggested constant working purpose knowledge somehow have seed in the Talmud estimated the Earth's age is 40,000 years based in his early stages. Many writers of jute usually flossing a test of 12 centuries gave ages of the earth from 50,000 200,000 or certain cobbler so medieval mystics from Spain to 12. The thirst 13 centuries calculated the Earth's age at 900,000 to 2.5 billion years expressed throughout traditional Jewish literature for the Middle Ages to the present by Jewish philosophers and rabbis such as Maimonides, Rabbi Judah, Holly baby and Rabbi Israel Lifshitz and others so so the point is you. You have various chronologies offered but it's not one that's fixed one that use the most is Seder alarm Rumbaugh it does go back roughly 2000 years could be even earlier. But like I said the traditional chronology condenses some of the period of Israel in exile in Israel under foreign rule and comes up with a much shorter. Then historians would accept today. That being said, the traditional Jew does use a Calendrical date right of of this year and 5782. It's secular, that the use that date but that doesn't mean they all believe that's the age of the earth. It felt it come from.

Probably I was looking at being the instruction of the sample. I'm not starting the first sample, and I will strive to compare it with our current balance, dark the that approximately their calendar all debate of the production any gifting to me that you reported a lot closer than it was 40 book out of this idea is so silly what the idea that we would say that the first temple was destroyed in 586 BC in the second Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. so that would be 656 years between the destruction of the first temple and the second Temple, yet a traditional Judaism will will have a different account for the time I can say condenses it 100 6070 years been space in the Rose finales. Now I know traditional Jewish scholars today. Brilliant, brave men who argue for the chronology and say that that the chronology that we go bias is based on on other ancient sources are misreading of them or something like that so hate. Thank you for the call and the question of REI God love to take more calls but at at a time, however, feel free to call them with the Jewish question to that tomorrow but Nick next week next week to Morgan special broadcast for you. Where were going to draw on some really interesting social media questions that were posted, so we do this every so often on Friday so will will be doing. I will will be taking calls don't get mad at me but we get cancel of the social media questions you can always write to us especially if it's important question to you or your reaching out to Jewish person or you're struggling with with questions that that not just a random thing to wonder about point you can always write to us. We have team members that help specifically doing that in many things are sent to me. Dr. Brown Julian on this, but we got folks who represent what I believe what we hold to scholarly folks and and those with ministry experience. So were here to help and it's all through the website asked Dr. Brown asked K dear Brown.org remember get your copy of this book the political seduction of the church is relevant. It it will open your eyes save thinking things right this… I saw all the behind the Truth Network